Bank of America

[CJ]

Natasha came here in 1996 to work for a year as an au pair.  We met a few months
before she was suppsoed to go home in 97 and were married 2-1/2 months later. I
wasn't looking for a foreign-born bride and the other issues involved were all
new to me then.  When visiting her family a year later, her closest friend commented
that everyone spoke of her as "Cinderella who found her prince" in America. She
had a degree from home in linguisitics and started taking computer classes at the
local community college while we waited for her working papers to arrive.  Soon
she had a job as a database admin/programmer at a law firm and after working for
a year there I was able to get her a position with my company, a top DC-area
defense contractor where she's now a software developer.  She's also completing
a Masters' program in software engineering at a local university and she was
naturalized last October.  And we've been regularly sending money home to help
the family, including buying a flat as a ($7K) wedding gift for her little sister
The newlyweds conflicts with my father-in-law were turning violent and we feared
that someone was going to get seriously hurt.  OK, there's the background...

We've had passed to us from time to time comments about the "rich daughter/sister
in America" and people having expectations about what we can or will provide for them.
I have always warned my wife about sending too much as this will create a feeling
of dependency on us.  She says every time she calls that she feels like they expect
to be told that there is money waiting at the bank (we use Western Union).  Last
week was her sister's birthday and we sent $200 as a BD gift.  When Natasha called
and told her sister, the reaction was silence, followed by "That's not enough...
We're in debt with the baby's doctor! We need more!"  Natasha was shocked and hurt
by this.  I realize that things are rough over there, even desparate at times.
Living in the flat they're 100% dependent on the market for food and the garden
at Dad's house is only growing grapes for him to make into wine these days. My
brother-in-law hasn't worked for two months and my mother-in-law (who now lives
with them) hasn't been paid for three.  

What to do?  We're going to visit soon, leaving here Christmas Day.  I am feeling
like they think the Bank of America is going to open a branch and solve their
problems while we're there.  Certainly I want to help out and even buy some 'extras'
while there, but feel like they've developed unreasonable expectations of us as
a steady source of income or as a safety net.  They don't understand that while
we each make more in two weeks than they'll see in a year, that living here costs
also.  When our nephew was born I asked Natasha how they expcted to raise a child
(she just shook her head also) and noted that even there it takes resources not
always available.

I was looking forward to this trip but now I'm not so optimistic that it will all
go well.  I know all the hugs and kisses will be there but question the sincerity
behind it.  Natasha and I are fine, working together and deleriously happy with
each other.  We're both having doubts about this whole thing and wonder where we
made the mistake, or if indeed one was made.

 Just be careful, guys.  I'm still happier now with Natasha than I ever
imagined but her family is becoming a source of irritation for us both. We've
been generous with them and the attitude of "is that all - we expected more"
has us both PO'd.

Stay tuned.  I'm sure I'll have some interesting stories to post here by mid-January!

[jrm]

... in response to Bank of  America, posted by CJ on Oct 4, 2003

You defintely should have a plan "B" when you visit. You will need it!!!

[CJ]

... in response to You have created a monster!, posted by jrm on Oct 7, 2003

n/t

[John K]

... in response to Bank of  America, posted by CJ on Oct 4, 2003

When you visit, stay at a hotel, not with relatives.  That way if things get ugly, you at least have a place to sleep.  That, and you are unconciously setting the tone that you won't be taken advantage of...

[CJ]

... in response to A quick suggestion..., posted by John K on Oct 6, 2003

John, if I remember right (it's been awhile) I think we spoke by phone a long time ago when your wife asked mine about the whole exit stamp thing.  Do you remember calling me in Virginia?  (If I'm wrong I'll claim early senility...)

From what I hear a hotel isn't the answer.  And I think that in the long run it would be an insult to them to do so.  We'll get through this and I imagine come out the other end stronger between us.  If anyone has anything to lose here it's her family by the way they're now acting.

[John K]

... in response to Re: A quick suggestion..., posted by CJ on Oct 6, 2003

We've never had any problems with any exit stamps.  

As far as calling, I rather doubt it.  We don't know your number and my wife is pretty antisocial.  She only calls her mother, grandmother, and one or two close friends.

Best of luck with the inlaws.  We spend money on Marina's mother and grandmother from time to time, but they know that money can be tight at times also...

[CJ]

... in response to Not us, posted by John K on Oct 8, 2003

My mistake.  I remember talking to someone here about the exit stamp and his wife called to talk to Natasha about it.

[Jersey Mike]

... in response to Bank of  America, posted by CJ on Oct 4, 2003

CJ, You have touched on a subject that came up in my failed marriage and contributed to our breakup.  My ex-wife was, in my opinion, too generous with her family members and they came to look upon us (and primarily me, since my wife made only modest income) as their numero uno source of income and support.  I resented that she sent so much back home (and she resented me for resenting!)  But hey, I married my wife, not her whole family after all.  

With my ex, all of her income went towards herself (clothes) and her family, and she looked to me for additional support for those inevitable emergencies, including some rather significant medical expenses during her father's terminal illness, that occured with her immediate family (including her widowed mother, two widowed sisters and three nieces - no men left to help out).  My wife contributed nothing to our household expenses during the term of our marriage.

Frank talk about money and personal finance is difficult, but every guy should really understand what his true financial obligations are going to be before they marry their foreign bride.  Her and her family's expectations of your level of support for them might just shock you.

[CJ]

... in response to Re: Bank of  America, posted by Jersey Mike on Oct 6, 2003

Sorry to hear you had such a bad time of it over expenses.  Money (either a lack of it or disagreement on where it goes) tends to be the #1 problem in most marriages.  Fortunately in our case that's not the problem here.  Natasha and I both make good incomes and there's no shortage of money.  She worked hard all through school, sacrificing much of her social life and dedicating herself to her studies and developing language skills.  Now she's reaping the rewards and others at home are (I think) jealous and feel that somehow she "owes" them.  I agree about helping out family and I understand the situation there, but face it, we're not going to change the world.  We've been generous (the $7K for a flat was, in my opinion, above and beyond any definition of generous) and I made it clear that we're not providing for them on an ongoing basis.  We don't have kids (yet) and I'm not going to support someone else's. I specifically said that I never wanted to hear about the kid's doctor bills - I provided a roof and that's it. Natasha feels also that what we earn is first for us, particularly when her sister isn't even working over there claiming that "the baby's so much to take care of..."

My brother-in-law's parents have commented that "Elena's sister in America should contribute more" and I think that while there I'm going to make a point to ask how much and how often they've contributed to their own grandchild's care.  It may not make me popular but I tend to be very outspoken and also not put up with anybody's BS. (Can anyone tell me how to say "Go F*** Yourself!" in Russian?)

I'll be the first to agree that life's not always fair.  Some are born into better circumstances but I don't subscribe to the theory of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need."  It just doesn't work that way here in the capitalist world.  We'll help, but we decide how much and how often.

No one can be taken advantage of unless they allow themselves to be.

At this point I'd rather just stop traveling once we reach Vienna...

(OK, I'll end this rant here.)

[KenC]

... in response to Bank of  America, posted by CJ on Oct 4, 2003

CJ,
I hear you loud and clear.  We have never had this type of problem with Lena's immediate family (Mom & Dad) because her Mom is a very intelligent woman and understands our situation.  We too have "ups & downs" in our personal financial situation.  We have been generous to them at times and so have they been with us.  On a recent trip to visit us, they bought a new refrigerator for our new home!  (A VERY generous house warming gift, I might say)

The "problems" we have faced has come from Lena's extended family and her parent's neighbors.  They are constantly trying to take advantage of Lena's parents because they have a "rich daughter in America."

Best of luck to you with your situation.  In this world there are "takers" and there are "givers".  Your sister in law is a "taker" and she will never change.  You can continue to give, but it will never be enough to satisfy her.  I would stop giving anything but token gifts.
KenC

[Stan]

... in response to Bank of  America, posted by CJ on Oct 4, 2003

Ha!!!  My wife and I laughed when we read your response,, not because it's a joke, but because of us having a very similar situation.
Background; Iv'e been over most of eastern Ukraine and am always marvled how every one there thinks that we do all indeed live like they do "Santa Barbara". And when you tell them otherwise, or at least in my humble blue collar life, they either think you are a selfish lier or tend to believe you and wonder why Hollywood would make films that are not 100% true.
The way "we" settled it,, and always do when we send or bring things, is to know that this is the best we can do for them and if they are not happy with their gifts,,,,,,,, BUMMER for them!!!  I can't over extend myself for some one just to live up to their beliefs of how much I should spend on them. Hey, I know a few people who are doing well all on their own w/o any help and I know of one or two babushkas who would be starving if they didn't get the help they were. Try teaching them the word;
blagodarnostb= gratefulness
Steve & Tanya

[WmGo]

... in response to Bank of  America, posted by CJ on Oct 4, 2003

CJ,

Thanks for sharing the situation. By your sharing,
it is educating all of us, and causing everyone to think
about things that they may not have ever thought about.

It is a sensitive situation obviously. I am no expert
in these matters, but it seems to me that it is best
for your wife to handle it since it is her family. It
is a conversation that is going to have to take place
sooner or later. Or maybe not. I don't know. Maybe the
whole situation can be finessed without ever having to
have the conversation. Clearly though, some dependency
and/or the feeling of dependency and/or expectation has
come into existence. I suspect that in any of these relationships it is bound to happen.

I am interested to learn how you ultimately handle it
and how it goes. I cannot over emphasize the neccesity
of prayer and seeking God's direction, wisdom and lead-ership in this situation.

Good luck!

WmGO