... in response to Re: Recognize any of these names?, posted by Spencer on Jun 26, 2003Why Hello Spencer, nice to see you posting on the finest Russian discussion board in the world, wouldn't you agree?
For the most part you will see a much more educated type poster here as compared to most other other boards. And the single moderator here does not lash out at or make newby's feel 1 inch tall as I witnessed on June 18th on one of the other boards. The owner of this board essentially told the newby to read more before posting anymore questions. The newby, had to be extremely embarrassed, responded back on the 19th, apoligized to the board owner and indicated he would follow the owners advice and refrain from posting anymore. I felt sorry for the newby. I think many guys did. But that wasn't as bad as the newby who asked the wrong question and got banned because the site owner thought he was someone else!. We had one fella here that used to treat newby's that way but for the most part he has left and gone to another board.
On Planet Love you will see that men are free to discuss almost all aspects of the pursuit for a Russian bride, including scammers and scam agencies. Patrick takes great pride in having a commercial free discussion area. {Most of us don't add the name of our website in our messages. I notice you added your website address in yours. Tacky, tacky Spencer, and on a competing Russian discussion board no less!} Not receiving monthly checks from certain advertisors, Patrick does not get the e-mails warning him that if he does not get rid of certain posters they will take there advertising dollars elsewhere. Patrick does not worry about posters saying anything negative about agencies that might be helping to pay his monthly rent. Spencer, can you imagine having a Russian discussion board where the owner was being paid substantial bucks every month by certain agencies and some of these agencies might be guilty of doing things that were dishonest or behind a scam where they write to ladies pretending to be the ladies or even worse, to have a modeling agency and taking ladies from the modeling agency and putting them on a website saying these ladies have interest to mary a foreign man and the ladies have no idea there photos are posted on the site and even worse, have no interest in marrying a foreign man! Can you believe an agency would do that Spencer? I'm sure you would have no part of being involved with any agency that would do that.
Mr. Forrest, I will glady answer the questions you have just asked me but first I would like to take care of un-finished business. On April 22nd I started receiving several e-mails from posters from another Russian discussion board, e-mails like this.....
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: manager@firstdream.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 11:14 PM
Subject: RWG post
Hi Jack,
Maybe you are aware of Spencer's new post concerning you at RWG, but I wanted to give you a heads up if you were not.
......................................
From:
To: Jack Bragg
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 7:21 PM
Subject: RWG
Jack,
Spencer just opened this thread on you in the RWG café. I suggest you log onto the board to answer this post ASAP -
..............................................
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: "Jack Bragg"
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 5:47 AM
Subject: rwguide challenge
Dear Jack,
The following was on the RWguide board when I woke up this morning. I
suspect
it was written as a team by the "band." Have fun dealing with it - please
take
your time to get it right - although somehow I think if you make Spencer
look
as bad as you will, he will just delete the thread.
...........................................
You can see a small example of the type of e-mails I was getting from other posters from this board Mr. Forrest. It seems everytime the owner of this board and the three regular posters on this board who continue to bad mouth say anything about me, I am always sent copies.
Ofcourse everyone who sent me an e-mail sent me a copy of your post which was full of errounous and slanderous statements.
I get these two e-mails from you Mr. Forrest,
From: spencer
To: 'Jack Bragg'
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 2:11 PM
Subject: another idea..
I'll tell ya what, I will open a public forum on my board today and announce that you are coming over. You will be invited and your account will be reactivated.
----- Original Message -----
From: spencer
To: 'Jack Bragg'
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 3:45 PM
Subject: RE:
I will open up a thread on my forum called "Jack Bragg" and I will post your PL message and open your account back up so you can have front and center to prove what you've said. I will let you know when you can come on and you can post
..........
Then I get this e-mail on the 24th,.....
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: "Jack Bragg"
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 8:28 PM
Subject: RE:
Privet Jack!
Spencer has deleted all reference to you from RWG. All the threads are
gone.
After getting Spencer's e-mail on the 22rd I think great, at least I can respond to Forrest's errounous and slanderous statements. So I write a rebuttal, go to post, can't get in. Try again on the 23rd, no luck, again on the 24th, can't log on. Try again on the 25th, no luck so I send the following e-mail to Forrest....
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: RWG Message Board
Hello Spencer,
I would like to take you up on your public invitation (Jack, I invite you to come on here and make good with 'proof' on your accusations.) to me on the RWG discussion board on April 22nd to answer your questions directed at, too, and about me. As well to show "my" cards.
However when I try to log-in to do acknowledge such, I cannot. How am I to respond to your allegations?
Three of your more prominent long time posters, in good standing with you, have offered to accept my response and post it under your thread if you would prefer me not to be able to log in directly, however I am now told that you have removed your original blasting of me. So where would I post my reply? Seems it would be more appropiate underneath your original post.
In case you have deleted your original post I have included a copy below if you would like to put back on the board and me to respond underneath it.
If you allow for me to reply I will set aside an hour tonight and should have a response ready sometime tomorrow.
Sincerely,
Jack Bragg
Now this message was sent to Forrest on April 25th.
Several posters on the rwg are waiting for my reply, including three of the current moderators who know and like me. Nothing from Jack.
On April 27th I get this e-mail,....
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: "Jack Bragg"
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 6:23 PM
Subject: Re: rwguide challenge
Dear Jack,
You missed what happened. After Spencer issued the challenge he locked the
thread. Then your friend "Markintexas" started a negative thread on you.
There were four very positive replies in a row, one of which was from me, one
of which was from Tom Lilly and two other guys I did not know..........the next
thing you know that thread is deleted - Spencer got worried about the
groundswell of positive contributions about you and decided the best way to
fight you was to ignore you. I think you should post it on the PL board - and
subtlely challenge him there.
By April 29th several posters on rwg are looking for my reply, several know Spencer has changed his mind, after making false statements, after publically inviting him to a rebuttal on the rwg site, Spencer has changed his mind.
I then get this e-mail.
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: nunya@ix.netcom.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 11:52 AM
Subject: Spencer
Dear Jack,
The above is from a thread addressing problems with "stupid" questions from "Newbies" on RuWG. I subtlely put in a post which dealt with giving you a chance to respond. To which Spencer replied, " Jack had nothing to say".
Well, several rwg posters knew this was not the case and I received notice of Spencers remark from one poster to which I replied,.....
From: "Jack Bragg"
To:
Subject: Fw: RuWG Message Board
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:40:02 -0500
First thank you for the information.
Spencer is mis-leading you, and the RuWG board, if he says that "Jack had nothing to say". Although Spencer is wanting to tell you that Jack had nothing to say when if the truth be known I have asked Spencer if I could respond to his slanderous assult on me from his public forum (well public for those he chooses).
Another rwg poster wrote,....
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: nunya@ix.netcom.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: RuWG Message Board
.......................................
What Spencer is doing to you definitely is wrong. I suggest you email him and ask him if he would like you to email him the response - or reactivate your account for you to post it under a new thread. I think it would be a mistake to open the thread on the PL board without speaking with Patrick - though that would be a good place to respond if Spencer does not let you on the RuWG board. Tell Patrick it may at least get alot of new people from the RuWG board over to look at the PL board.
So I write Spencer and ask him when will I be able to respond and he writes back,....
----- Original Message -----
From: spencer
To: 'Jack Bragg'
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 7:16 PM
Subject: RE: Content
Jack, don't bother! 
I gave you the opportunity and you did not take it
Also, so you know, I have blind CC'd people on all of our correspondence so it's VERY apparent your are full of sh!t Jack. Now I'll prove it..
Spencer
.........................
To which I wrote Spencer,....
Spencer, if you blind CC'd everyone with all our original correspondence, no funny stuff with your ability to delete and change written things, then I will be one very happy, and exonerated individual.
Jack
There are a few people on ruwomg who were getting a bit upset with Spencer as to his ability to take his cheap shots at me and not allow me to reply, after publicly, on "his" board saying so. One of the moderators keeps on Spencer and finally I get these two e-mails,......
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: Jack Bragg
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 8:12 PM
Subject: RE:
Jack,
E-mail me your rebuttal. I will read it and if necessary we can talk about it. Then I will publish it on ruwomgu.
.....................................................
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: Jack Bragg
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 10:26 PM
Subject: RE:
Jack,
I just talked with Spencer on the telephone. He will allow you to publish a rebuttal on ruwomg. All I can say is after ALL this trouble it better be good.
.....................................
So I type my reply to you Spencer and send it to not one, but two different ruwg posters. I am told with very strong and stern words that you refused these individuals from posting my rebuttal.
So I guess, since you have addressed me with some questions, I would like to take care of unfinished business first before addresseing new questions to you.
Here Spencer is my reply that you refused to post on your board,.....
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Bragg
To:
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 7:40 AM
Subject: Fw: REPLY TO SPENCER FORREST
.....{ Hello Spencer, I appreciate the opportunity to respond to your message to me from May 22nd. I hope you find my reply sincere and in good-faith and will allow it to remain posted, although I seriously doubt this post will remain more than a few hours or until you read it.
My response to you is in two parts, first to address the post between myself and another member of the Planet Love Russian discussion board, Burke, that caused you to post your message to me on May 22nd. And the second part of my response is to address the remainder of your post directed at me from May 22nd.
To address how this communication now between us has taken place.
On April 14th RWG's own moderator Squirecam made a post on Planet Love's Russian discussion board to a gentleman with regards to other Russian discussion boards and made the statements "I do like the fact that Jack is free to post here" and "I wish he were allowed to post (on rwg), but that's just the way it is". A poster from Planet Love , Burke, asked why Jack could not post on rwg. Another poster chimed in "That this board (Planet Love Russian board) is THE *best* board for people seeking information about FSU on the internet - bar none". From another poster who is a frequent poster to both boards commenting on the same post "I do know that the RWG board deletes threads that are unfavorable to their advertisers, while this board tells the truth as the posters see it. I post on and read both boards - I respect this board more (Planet Love) - because this board told me the straight stuff every time - while I listened to and heard alot of bad advice on the RWGuide board. So, lots of hits, means more dumb people not reading the right site - things will change...........it is just a matter of time, and marketing." And the originator of the thread wrote this, "Both Patrick & Spencer: are decent individuals. From my limited experience: Patrick is more apt to allow free thought in his forum, than the latter.
And then I answered the poster with this response,....
**************************************************************
I can answer that for you Burke!
It seems that some of the more prominent monthly advertisers for RWG did not like the fact that I was revealing some scams that I had encountered while hand delivering letters to some of the more popular ladies on there website. Strange, several of these beautiful ladies had never lived at the addresses being sold! Or that one of the most beautiful ladies on the European Connections catalog had met a man at one of there socials and this man was so excited to meet her. When she said she did not know him, he showed her several letters that she had written him. She said she never wrote one of those letters. Can you say E-700 scam?? Or hand delivering a letter to a lady who has been in one agencies catalogs numerous times over the past few years only to find that the lady has been married and living in Italy for the last fours years! Or discussing how Mordinson's has the same 4 or 5 ladies who are getting engaged some 2 or 3 times each year, but always back out at the last minute after several months.
See Burke, when you are getting paid advertising bucks each month by these agencies, who in some cases are out right scam agencies and in other cases do some very un-ethical things, they do not appreciate these bad things being discussed, and being able to be proven. Especially if they are paying for only good things to be said about them in hopes of being able to scam more men. I think it's a sad state when the all-mighty dollar is more important than being able to share the truth about scam activities and in essence is helping to led guys to being scammed.
I was well liked by many of the guys on RWG and many used my services, and they still do. I am probably working for some 15 posters over there right now. I maintained a four star rating even after the likes of the old timers dorfus jb, cameragirl, woodpecker and the LTP losers who couldn't go toe to toe with me gave me there best 1-star ratings and complaints to the owner. How would you like to be a monthly paying scam advertiser and seeing all these good compliments being said about a non-advertising competitor? They didn't and told the owner of the board if you want our monthly dollars, you get rid of this poster.
**************************************************************
Well, I think I owe Spencer an apology. By reading the above it makes my statements sound so "as a matter of fact" when in reality there is no hard proof or facts to support some of the above statements.
What I should have said, and apoligize for not saying, was "In my opinon, Spencer deletes negative post's by his paying advertisers".
It is only my opinion based on what I have seen and read on the rwg over the past 1.5 years or so. Seeing other negative comments made about paying advertisors and those remarks deleted sometime later as well as my own post's I made regarding questionable ethics and scamming going on by two of the more prominet advertisors that were deleted are some of the reasons I feel this way. Why were they deleted? In my opinion because it was not in rwg's best "financial" interest to have such messages posted. There is NO proof of this, this is only my opinion and I do apoligize Spencer if my remarks read as though there was actual hard evidence to support my opinions.
Spencer, it is your playground, your sand box and you decide who can play, and post, in your sand box. And although you have a group of moderators who occassionaly will get together and put it to a vote as to if they want to ban someone who has irked them or others, it is you who does most the banning without consulting with others, as I am told. This is told to me by one of the former "Band of Brothers" who is now one of the moderators.
Spencer when you have individuals or organizations who contribute to a cause on a monthly or quarterly basis, they would like to see a return on there investment. As such many agencies, companies, individuals who are paying for certain results expect certain results and you sure are not going to get them if negative things are said about them. It is only my opinion Spencer but I think some of your monthly paying advertisors did not like seeing Jack Bragg talking about some of the things he encounters on a daily basis with there companies. Spencer one thing about Jack's posting's, weather you like him or not, most people read what I write. And weather you like to admit it or not, a lot of individuals do value my opinion with many aspects towards the pursuit for a 'good' Russian bride (you damn sure don't need my help in finding a bad Russian bride).
I think the name Firstdream has built quite a good reputation, so much so a company you closely associate with wanted to be associated with the name Firstdream. Go look at firstdream.net Now I know such names as Anastasia or Russian Brides or Russian women would be popular names, but who would have thought that the name Firstdream would be so popular that such a large comapny would want to associate with the name. I assure you it was not due to a bad name stigma associated with it! And to spend so much to have this name registered on Yahoo. Ahhhh, imitation is truly the sincerest form of flattery!
And Spencer, as we are competitors, we both have companies we are associated with and compensated for selling ladies addresses, we both offer group tours (although you do the social type tour to my more personalized tours and private parties), we both offer flats for rent in several of the same cities, we both offer translations, express mail service, visa help and services, flower and candy deliveries to name a few of our common services we offer, it just makes sense to me, in my opinion, that you were probably were getting a little upset by seeing so many of your regular posters who were, and still are, commenting on the outstanding service of my agency. Why should you promote or operate such a board that was so helpful to one of your competitors I think you must have asked yourself. And your monthly paying advertisors, what do they think about this? What, look at the percentage of good things that someone is speaking good things about them compared to this non-paying advertising competitor Firstdream? Spencer, I think that percentage has been somewhat obvious for some time. I think if I ran a board like yours I would not want one of my competitors who was so highly thought of and so often mentioned to be a part of it. What could I say to get that member banned and not make it look so obvious as to why I was banning them?
Spencer regarding what proof I had to offer to support my claims that three of my negative comments and reports about two of your advertisors were removed due to content's I say, "where are they?". Before I was banned I looked and looked for them, they were gone! You say prove it. Prove you removed such things you say to me and I say to you, Where are they Spencer?" Several members of the rwg board remember the detailed story I gave of a lady who was attend an EC social and being confronted by a man that he said had been writing her for several months. She told him he was mistaken. He went to his room, got the letters, showed to her. She afreed those were her photos but she had never written one of the many letters he had. Or the case where we hand delivered a letter to a woman in the EC catalog who had been married and living in Italy for over four years. And my report on Mordinsons and how they got caught a few years back in posting ladies on there website who went in to have photos taken of themselves as they were aspiring models only to have these photos posted as ladies seeking a foreign man for marriage. Where are these post's Spencer. They have, or were, deleted. But sometimes I have seen, and maybe others as well, that sometimes deleted post's have come back.
In our phone conversation you say maybe the moderators might have removed them and I guess that is a possiability. But removing all three, and with-in a one months time period of each other. Just seems like too much of a coincidence to me. But I could be wrong Spencer, I have been wrong before, hell I was one of those who thought for sure OJ was guilty.
And not only my post's. I recall another poster posting something negative about Mordinsons and shortly thereafter it got removed. Caused quite a problem, you even got some private e-mails over that and some two or three weeks later a similiar post was posted again and this time it was allowed to stay.
Spencer I understand some of your own moderators have questioned you as to why you banned Jack. We all knew you had the support of a few, they were obvious, but I don't think you realized so many so close to you would have reacted in the way that they have. Seems the so called troll factor you try to play up was not so much a problem to many others. No Spencer, it is my opinion I was banned for pure financial reasons, which is your right, it is your sand box. You decide who can play, who can speak, and who cannot in your sand box.
There are many good things about the Planet Love board, one of which the owner, Patrick, allows scam discussions about any and all agencies to be discussed. He just ask's for the individuals to tell what happened, to explain why they make the comments they do. Planet Love is known as the board where you can ask things and get truthful answers about ALL the various agencies. It is, in my opinionm the best Russian discussion board for the new guys starting out.
With-in a week or two of you banning me you add a new rule to the rwg board, if you are an agency owner or in the business, you can not say anything bad about another agency. Another coincidence? I think not. Good move Spencer, won't have to worry about any future Jack Bragg's with that move! Hell, I thought with that move you might as well invite me back, can't say anything bad about any of the bad agencies out there. But then there is that issue of all those trolls.
Troll Spyke, troll Claire, all those trolls, least we forget about the rwg trolls. The first day I ever posted on the rwg board you had a former Band of boob Brother, cameragirl, go onto the rwg board and say, "If Jack Bragg is allowed to post her, then I am leaving!" ................Hello, did you guys hear me, if Jack Bragg post's here, I'm leaving!... hello, ...hello. No one stops cameragirl, no one begs him to stay, so cameragirl slitered away, for three weeks.
Hey, who is this cameragirl? What did I do to this cameragirl? I have never met him, never talked with him or worked with him, don't know the guy, what's up? Hummm, maybe another one of those intimadated by Jack's knowledge and experience.
I did not create flame wars on your board Spencer. I was fairly well respected dispite the efforts of a few. Maybe this bothered you, after all, we are competitors.
I did not post on rwg for a couple of weeks approaching this past holiday season. rwg trolls cameragirl and jb start posting about Jack Bragg. Spencer do this, Spencer do that. "Ah haaa", says Spencer (in my opinion), "now is good time to ban Jack. He is starting more trouble!" Starting trouble? He hasn't posted in two weeks!
I ask Spencer, "What do you mean starting more trouble, I haven't posted in a couple of weeks, no flame wars, Spencer, why was I banned. And Spencer's reply was, "it is not in the best interest of this board to allow you to continue to post". Yea, I say to myself, not in the rwg boards best financial interest!
.....{ Part II Below is my response to your other remarks Spencer}......
Members: I do not normally deal with situations on the board as I am am about
to, however I will defend RWG adamantly to protect it's interest. I believe
that dealing with things honestly and in the open is the best way, therefore I
will take this action today.
In the event you do not know who Jack Bragg is, he's an individual I removed
from the site simply because his posts, no matter what they were about, invited
flame wars from other members. It seemed (through his own admission in numerous
emails and on the board) that people were "out to get him" and would sign up on
the board to "do him in."
.........{Spencer, what is "numerous" e-mails to you,..... two? You have a way of embellishing words and phrases towards your selected agenda I think. We all know about Spyke and when Claire came aboard I sent you a private e-mail even telling you what the ISP was she had posted under, as she had sent me the same thing posted a few days earlier. }......
At one point I contacted multiple IP's in Europe to stop one guy, Spyke, who was dedicated to paying Jack back for something Jack supposedly did to him or the guy's mother-in-law or something..
.......{Spencer, Jack has never met with Spyke, never had any business dealings with Spyke, has never been to the land of down under or ever met or had any dealings with his mother-in-law. I seriously doubt that Spyke said anything about me and this mother-in-law bit. More, I think, of the way you try to 'embellish' what you want to get across. Spyke maybe a few bricks short of a full load but he has not shown me any signs of being a liar. Spykes problem with me, as it is with many trolls, and competitors, is I don't mind calling an ass-hole an ass-hole, which I considered Spyke. .....}
it was becoming
a situation like "as the RuWoG Turns.." This was many months ago.
......{Yes, it was many months ago. No Spyke troll for some time, ohhh but those few pesty ruwog trolls, too bad you couldn't have more control over them.
Spyke was also doing the same thing over on the Planet Love board. Patrick also get's the occassional nutso like Spyke and he also ban's him. Even after 20, 30 different names and IP's, Patrick was able to keep Spyke off the board, something you were not so successful with.
You and Patrick are certainly different individuals with different strength's and weakness's. One thing about Patrick, he doesn't let a lose troll get the best of him. You would think that a certain amount of this would be expected from most discussion boards. It seems to me that if one couldn't handle the heat he shouldn't be in the kitchen.....}
After numerous
discussions with Jack, I determined that this could not be stopped, that there
were too many trolls working to flame his every post. So in the best interest
of the board I disabled his account and told him it was not a personal issue,
which he replied with, "Thank's for the reply Spencer. Glad to know it's
nothing personal. And the very best to you, Jack."
.....{Spencer, please, define numerous? After numerous discussions with Jack! After two, three discussions? Ok, if three is numerous,ok. That's why I think I would like to hear your diffination of numerous.
And these trolls you speak of to flame my every post! HELLO, ....is there anyone out there?? WOW, Spencer, and these trolls working to flame my every post, these is really some strong embellishing on your part, don't you think?
I mean, HELLO,.......... you, other members of the Ru Wo G who were posting six months, nine months ago, a year ago (and not you johhny come-lately clueless boy), you guys who were posting, think about what Spencer has written. Many of you will re-call many of my post's. Many of you commented to my post both on and off the board. I for one do not agree with you Spencer and I think most guys (once you seperate the 'all ready know what they will say in support of Spencer ru wo g trolls) will probably have a difference of opinion as to all these post's you say I made that were worked by trolls. I really think, in my opinion, this is statement of troll posts on all my postings is a strong indicator as to your creditability....}
So in effort to protect my board, Jack, I invite you to come on here and make
good with 'proof' on your accusations. From a person who has surrounded himself
with trolls, constantly refers to himself in the 3rd person and has been
suspended from another board for creating false identities and making comments
on your agency, I would be interested to see "your" cards.
......{Spencer, I created one new person on this other board. ONE, not identities with an s. It was during a time when Patrick suspended two posters for going at each other, me and another guy. Your reference to creating false identities on this other board is another of your frequent embellished words and now statements. And Spencer, this is an erroneous and slanderous statement when you say that I, as this new identity, made comments about my agency. This is a lie on your part Spencer Forrest. Every word, every sentence that this new identity made was posted on the Planet Love Russian discussion board, by me! And NOT ONE time did I ever make any favorable comment about MY agency. I suspect you owe me an apology, and most certaintly I will not hold my breath until I get it.....}
And this is why you do not post here any longer and the only
reason other than the pack of trolls who follow you.
.....{Hey, other than occassional Spyke, there YOUR rwg pack of trolls!....}
Your comments are
slanderous and unacceptable to me.
....{Spencer, I feel the same way about your comments and your erroneous and slanderous statements about me}.....
.....{So Spencer, I offer you an apology if my comments to Burke about why I was banned from rwg seemed to be reasons of a proven, known nature when I should have stated these were the reasons in my opinion only.
Opinions are just that. Opinions are things you believe yourself based on the information, weather limited or in great abundance. I have an opinion that Scott Peterson probably killed his wife Lacy, it's just an opinion I have based only on what I have seen or read, without having any hard proof. I might be wrong about everything I have stated about why I was banned from your site. Like I said, I have been wrong before.
So Spencer, I will now say good-bye. It is late in the morning and I have to catch a flight to Russia in a few hours. I won't know of what your come back comments to me will be for a few weeks from now but it doesn't matter. As far as I am concerned this is my last post to you or the rwg board. I can understand why you don't want me there. I wish you the best. It's too bad we could not have developed a friendship as I have with many of my other competitors.
Sincerely,
Jack Bragg
...................................................................................
Now Spencer, when you first banned me me you said it was due to the trolls who were attacking everything I posted on your site. This was certaintly true of Spyke until you banned him. Then the only trolls who were attacking me were your very own ru wo g trolls.
From: RW Guide
To: 'Jack Bragg'
Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 7:05 PM
Subject: RE: Content
Since this Claire/spyke person has it in for you, it causes me GREAT problems having to deal with her/him/it.
----- Original Message -----
From: spencer
To: 'Jack Bragg'
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 7:15 PM
Subject: RE:
Regarding your ban from the site, I told you why. Every time you posted, I had trolls tearing you down. Whether your fault or not, I didn't want to deal with it.
You could have been in that boat too if you were not followed around by Spyke and the others.
.......................................................................
In the event you do not know who Jack Bragg is, he's an individual I
removed
from the site simply because his posts, no matter what they were about,
invited
flame wars from other members.
I determined that this could not be stopped, that
there
were too many trolls working to flame his every post. So in the best
interest
of the board I disabled his account and told him it was not a personal
issue
................................................................
Sure, blame on the trolls, but they would be your trolls after banning spyke.
If I may speak my opinion here Spencer. You and I are competitors. You are now getting into the renting and leasing of flats and offering many services I do. You sell ladies addresses, offer large group tours and socials, do translations, deliver gifts and flowers. Almost everyday you read of ru wo g posters who speak of the excellent service they have received from your competitor, me. And you know many of these posters! You know they are real. Several being your own moderators. Strangely enough, the two largest ru wo g trolls who talk bad about me have never used my services.
Almost everyday your monthly advertisors see these good things being said of a non-paying advertisors. They don't like seeing this! And with some of your paying advertisors I am sure they did not like seeing of some of the experiences I had reported with them. We hand deliver everyday letters for men to ladies whom they have bought the address from other agencies, several of which are some of your monthly paying advertisors. I reported some things we experienced with a few of these agencies and those post's all got deleted. You say you don't know how they got deleted, you didn't do it. No problem, just strange.
Spencer there are a lot of guys who post on ru wo g. that I know and have worked with. I know of several of these guys who have duel identies on ru wo g. Some guys have even let me used there own password and log in name to get into your site as oppssed to them having to send me links to the BS you or the band of boob brothers were saying about me.
Some of the r w g posters can see what you are doing and what you are up to, especially when it came to me. A few e-mails received, and yes Spencer, in if need be can prove that each of these post's came from a rwog posters.....Take a look at what some of your members think and say about you.
From:
To: manager@firstdream.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 11:14 PM
Subject: RWG post
Hi Jack,
I was going to post the following message to Spencer's comments but he closed the thread before I could. BTW, what is with JB. Who put the bug up his arse?
Here was the post I was going to make:
For what it's worth, I would disagree with you JB on your assessment about Spencer inviting Jack back. I remember some of his posts and appreciated his comments. His style was a bit in your face, but I never had a problem with that.
I have never used his agency but have corresponded with Jack a number of times and have found him to be honest, straightforward and helpful. I also appreciate his web site, Firstdream.
Spencer, just a comment…I don't know the whole story except for your above explanation, but instead of disabling Jack's account, would it not have been better dealing directly with the people wanting to bring out the flame thrower every time Jack posted? Perhaps you did.
Speaking of flames....
.....................................................
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 9:43 PM
Subject: RuWoGu Situation
Jack,
I thought I would let you know what is going on at RuWoGu. Spencer has
reorganized the board and in the process has rewritten history!
All threads which criticized Mordensons have been deleted....
I now have no doubt that the commercial pressure from Spencer's
advertizers
IS the overriding motivation for his increasingly dictatorial behavior.
Obviously his protestations of not needing the revenue are just that.
His actions severely undermine the independance and integrity of RuWoGui.
I will certainly post there less often. I will post no more trip reports.
There is no point in posting info on scams and scam agencies in this
environment. No other reputable board allows such
behavior. If any scams are reported which are against his commercial
interest he suppresses them. Tabloid editorial standards of the worst
kind!
Spencer's board profits from my advice. I gain nothing but the
satisfaction
of helping others. The kudos of Spencer making me a member of the boards
inner circle means nothing to me. It is time for me to move on and
concentrate on more important issues in my life.
Keep in touch,
....................................
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: Jack Bragg
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: censorship
Jack,
I think ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, got it right.........."Band of Fools." Spencer says he wants to encourage new members to post. Creating an "elite" caste certainly won't accompolish his aim.
I always thought your knowlege was a very valuable asset to the board. I sure have heard great things about your services!
Spencer's trying to make some $ from his site so I can appreciate his concerns about losing advertisers. Too bad he's not more honest about it.
Let me know if I can do anything for you at RWG.
Regards,
.......................................................................
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: "Jack Bragg"
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: your mail
Definitely showing his true colors now isn't he. SRG is a good name you came
up with. Do not sweat it. You did a good job on the PL board.
...................................................
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: nunya@ix.netcom.com
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 9:20 PM
Subject: What happened
Dear Jack,
I saw Patrick permit Spencer to post, Spencer came on the board and said something that amounts to nothing. So will you now be able to respond on both boards or what??
.............................................................
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: "Jack Bragg"
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 11:10 PM
Subject: Tying up RWguide
I am really stirring up that RWguide board over the band of brothers thing.
I'll probably get banned - but I do not give two.........I just posed it all to
Spencer on a thread he started.
.................................................................
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: "Jack Bragg"
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: rwguide challenge
I look forward to seeing the band put in their place once again.
..............................................................
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: nunya@ix.netcom.com
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: What happened
Ah, now I see why he never banned me - he thinks I am a conservative - which I am - though I am a free thinker and definitely would not ban those who disagree with the right wingers like myself.
...........................................................................
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: nunya@ix.netcom.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 5:52 PM
Subject: appreciation
hi jack, i am one of those kind of men who, when treated right, becomes a loyal friend and advocate for life. even if i am broke, i am a generous guy...lol easy to be generous when you have nothing to give, right?
actually, i will have plenty of money because if i do not get any checks in tomorrow, i have backup for cash...my biz does good, and my receivables are high, just no cash flow...it could change tomorrow with the mail. if it does not, i will still bring credit cards with a couple thousand or more available on them.
as for SWG, i agree, i am banned also. if you are anything left of extremely right, you are not welcome on the board. i was banned, but i use anonymizer and log on as ******** i already posted a pre-trip report and mention your name and firstdream. you HAVE and ARE doing great work and i DO appreciate it..trust me, the SWG will know all about good your services are...they might ban me again if i am not careful! lol
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: nunya@ix.netcom.com
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: phone number
Hello Jack...I used to mouth off at the super conservatives on the board and take issue with some of Spencers favorite people. It seems some memebers can say anything they want, attack others, inflame others as long as it is ultra conservative. He will let some people say ANYTHING and attack just about anyone, but if you put up any defense at all or take issue with any of Speners favorites. He will ban the new person and not the person making the inflammatory remarks. It is a very one sided board, no liberal viewpoints are welcome, nor are any middle of the road viepoints if they clash with his conservative posters..som, in short, I was banned because I would speak up against his favorites and I hope you do not mind that I am a bit liberal..I know most of you people in TX worship the Bushes, but there is a entire country out here that does not necessarily blindly follow the leader. Hope you will still help me knowing I am fair minded and lean left...lol
*****
PS..I have nothing against conservatives or the republicans or Bush. I just think an even fair view should be presented with the facts so others can use their own judgement and not just be propagandized by the conservative media.
.........................................................................
----- Original Message -----
From: "maura claire"
To: Jack Bragg
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 3:01 PM
Subject: For once you are semi-correct (claire)
Hello honey,
I have to call a luser a luser and in this
case Spencer is the luser.
He is a paranoid nutter who in my opinion has some
severe psychological problems.
Last year a co-worker of mine who's wife had died a
couple of years ago started to become interested in RW
and Latin women as well.
I listened to him, but never offered up any advice
because I felt he had to approach this endeavor by
himself.
While he didn't locate Planet Love, he did find
Spencer's board and after introducing himself started
to ask the usual questions that newbies would ask,
mostly because he just didn't know but was sincere.
He questioned some of the goings on with RWG and
stumbled upon several known shills and more or less
asked the wrong questions.
Not only did Spencer ban him, but Spender went so far
as to accuse him via email of sending kiddie porn to
the people on that board and Spencer went even further
and complained to the guys ISP.
Spencer made a very big mistake because the guy is an
attorney and just happens to live in the same state as
Spencer which made things quite interesting.
Spencer was served with a cease and desist order (or
whateve it's called, I'm not an attorney) and warned
either put up proof or face a lawsuit.
Spencer shut his trap and that was the end of it but
it just goes to show what a weirdo the guy is.
Now we all know what I think about you, but the general thought
is that you aren't really harming anything, so Jack at least
in this case I support you as opposed to Spencer.
Claire/Maura
..............................................................................
Ok, Spencer, there is much more I could write and show but I will leave some back-up to whatever you throw my way, including the newby you recently banned because you thought he was me!
Now I will address your questions from your e-mail.
Question..."Mr. Bragg, I will assume you are referring to my site, as you have made countless accusations referring to the RWGuide.com."
Answer..... Nope, not referring to your discussion board.
Question...."In addition, I received an email today regarding this post and my "inability to stop scams."
Answer......I would address the person who sent you this e-mail and answer his question as to your inability to stop scams.
Question..."The names you mentioned here are not on my site in any place, shape or form."
Answer.....No one, certaintly not me, said those agencies were advertisors of your site!
Question...." I would also like a clarification as to the names of scam agencies, who are by your estimates, scamming customers. If you are confident in your findings, I recommend that you address them all here.. And if you were not referring to my site, simply ignore this post; or post regarding the name of the site(s) you're referring to."
Answer.....Since I am not refferring to your site I will simply ignore the question.
Question...." If you are referring to "scams" as being sites who do not update their address database as fast as "you" recommend they do, then there are many agencies guilty of what you charge, some of whom are your close business associates. "
Answer.....No, I was not referring to scams that did not update their database fast enough. But now that I think of it, don't you think a woman who was published in several catalogs and having been married for over FOUR years would be enough time to remove her from their database?
Question.....I respect Patrick's board
Answer......And many other men do also. I think it is rightfully so earning the reputation as being the finest Russian discussion board in the world. You know I have felt that way for a few years and have said so. Seems it is becoming more obvious to many others now.
Question.......however (as mentioned to Patrick) I will not accept the ill-attempts of bashing my site publicly without evidence. So out with it..
Answer.....I am sorry, I do not understand the question?
Question....You were removed from my site for the simple reason you could not follow the rules, specifically the part about multiple ID's. Period. It has nothing to do with "scams."
Answer....well now your saying it was due to multiple ID's. Before you were saying it was due to trolls. Your forgetting your stories it appears. I think it was due to me exposing scam agencies, some of which may have been close to home. I think it could have been from pressure received from paying advertisors who did not like seeing the constance praise of a non-paying advertisor. And it could have been due to you and I being competitors and it was not doing your business any good by having a competitor so highly spoken of so often.
Now I could be wrong, as I told you, I have been wrong before. I could have swore OJ was guilty.
You may not have enjoyed my presence when I could have represented a loss of business or income. We know there are three rwg trolls who did not approve of me. But as I have mentioned to you before, the overwhelming majority of the members of rwg did appreciate me. I had no problem in letting the members vote on me and I maintained a four star rating. Many members will tell you that I was not involved in flame wars on your site. I had not even posted for two weeks prior to you banning me, certainly couldn't have been from any on going flame wars. Now I hear that two of the rwg trolls, cameragirl and jb were posting negative statements, as always, the day you banned me. Darn, too bad you could not control your own rwg trolls!
Spencer, I know it is obvious to many on rwg why you banned me, and I think it will become even more obvious to others.
