THOUGHTS ON CHEMISTRY...

[Zoidberg]

Hi Everyone... I know I have read so much about the so called chemistry that people talk about. I have always been a firm believer that chemistry is important but not as important as some people say. In my 40 years I have noticed many times people I have met I do not like at first but these people sometimes become my closest friends. Sometimes I do hit it off right away with people because the "chemistry" is right but then as time goes by the initial chemistry we had is gone... But then there are some that I know I like right away and they end up being very close to me for many years. The above statements I am refering to not only former girlfriends but just friends as well. I'd like to share a part of my trip with everyone after I saw a post by someone else on another group I read. Below is what I posted to the other group so I am replying to his post. To make a long story short, he went and almost the exact same thing happened to him. There was no chemistry but unfortunately it did not work out for him as it did us even though he stayed with this girl the entire trip.

*******

Anyway, I went to Dnepropetrovsk from May 22 to June 17 to meet a girl I
have been writing for many months. I was writing Svetlana for
almost 9 months and we were emailing, phone calls regularly and SMS
all the time. It was special and I thought she was very special. But
when I came out of the airport and saw her we both hugged and that
was it. Something was wrong because I was not as excited as I thought
I would be. I felt I met a stranger. We had plans to get a flat for
myself the first 2 nights anyway but then we were going to Simeiz on
the Black Sea for 5 nights no matter what. We talked about this
before meeting and felt it was a good idea to get away just the two
of us. I told her if things didn't go well I would be a perfect
gentleman and just enjoy the sites with her. I also told her no
matter how much we feel before that meeting things could go wrong.
She didn't believe me and got mad that I was negative. I just told
her I was realistic. Then when we met and sparks didn't fly we talked
about it at the flat. She felt as I did, we were strangers. One thing
I did notice with her was that we were both very comfortable with
each other. She just said I was a stranger to her. When she left that
night I also gave her a kiss and she gave me her cheek. Almost
exactly what happened to you. I was sitting alone in this flat
thinking "What the *bleep* am I doing here?" I started thinking about
calling people to start arranging dates. Then I sat there and told
myself "Nobby, you thought this might happen so I have to give the
week like we talked about. Even if it is just meant to be friends." I
didn't hate her and I certainly liked her more then as a friend but
it just didn't seem right. Aha... that chemistry word people talk
about just wasn't there. But I made up my mind and thought positive.
I called her on the phone that evening and just told her what we were
going to do and what I really felt. To my surprise we loved each
other on the phone again. It was magical but just not so in person.
So we just joked about getting married by phone. She told me later
the call really made her feel good because I was very positive and
told her that we didn't hate each other so lets go to the Black Sea
anyway and just enjoy the trip as planned. If there is still nothing
I will either fly back early or go on dates while I am there. She
said she'd take me to an agency if it didn't work out.

So the next day comes and she comes over about 8 am. It was still the
same. We were strangers. We didn't do much that day and at one point
we sat in the flat talking for 6 hours straight. I knew we were
comfortable with each other but I felt again maybe we were destined
to be friends because there was no spark. She even said she liked me
but no spark... So I called her again that night and again the phone
conversation was very good. The 3rd day she came to get me to drop
off my bags at her house. That night we were taking the train to
Simferopol. To make matters worse the only rooms available on the
train in 1st class was in different rooms. So we spent the day at her
house and then went to catch the train at night. Good thing someone
traded us tickets and we got the same room. That night we talked for
awhile and we actually held hands. That was the first physical
contact we had besides pecks on the cheek. I think at that moment we
knew things would be better as we held hands for awhile with the
lights out heading to Simferopol.

Then from the next morning sparks started to fly. By the end of the
week we were as close to each other as we were on the phone and I
knew I found the right woman. We ended up staying in the Black Sea
town of Simeiz for 15 nights. I have not read other replies to your
post yet but I saw there is a lot. I would bet lots of money that
there will be people that say they would have left after the first
day. Well I just say THANK GOD I did not. Sveta and I talked about
this at length. She felt the first day we would go our seperate ways
and even was wondering if she should even go to the Black Sea. But in
the end she said she also felt comfortable with me so she went. Now
we are engaged and it sure is difficult being apart.

*********

This was my post to the other group with minor editing. I have always felt that chemistry is important but shouldn't be the most important. I know from reading all these groups many people rely on chemistry to decide their fate. I am glad we both decided to give it a chance.

Z

[Yeahbaby]

... in response to THOUGHTS ON CHEMISTRY... , posted by Zoidberg on Jun 28, 2003

It's great to hear someone with a story like yours.  I get so tired of the guys who say they met the hottest woman in the world, with boobs out to here, etc.. and now they are engaged after a week.  Chemistry is WAY over-rated around here IMO.  Sure, you want to be attracted to your fiance, but when you start thinking with your little head all the time, it's time to get a grip, this is too important to blow it all for some momentary lust.  Sounds to me like you did just great, you obviously liked something much more about this woman than just "she's so hot"!  Kudos to you!

Love at second glance perhaps??  I think it's much the better way to go!

Later,
Oscar

[Zoidberg]

... in response to Re: THOUGHTS ON CHEMISTRY... , posted by Yeahbaby on Jun 28, 2003

Thanks for the reply Oscar. I do not believe in LOVE AT FIRST SITE. I don't think it is possible. I do believe in LUST AT FIRST SITE and many people mix that up with LOVE.

Z

[Cold Warrior]

... in response to LUST AT FIRST SITE.... , posted by Zoidberg on Jun 29, 2003

[This message has been edited by Cold Warrior]

I think love is somewhat like faith mentioned in the bible. It starts like a seed, with care,sunlight and water it eventually grows into a big tree.

[LP]

... in response to THOUGHTS ON CHEMISTRY... , posted by Zoidberg on Jun 28, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]

..lol, no offense Zoid but yer killin me. I don't know which state is more amusing, the one where guys are still searching or the one after they've found "the one".

Don't get me wrong, it's a good post and on the surface reflects what appears to be insight but everything you wrote is common sense. No surprise there and another clear indication that WOVO (as normally done) can seem risky.

Whats important to note is that 90% of the girls I met turned out being much closer to what I wanted than I first thought *after* I had spent more time with them. While only one turned out to be "close enough", most were far closer than I thought at first and I bet most would have made fine mates. This discounted the other cases where there was obvious friction or incompatibility, a clear and present danger as it were. (I dumped those during the writing/telephone stage.)

No matter how you feel about each other when you meet you're still strangers..period. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves, only romatic fools and deperados think along those lines. It's simply common sense and if you think back on it you'll see you already know this from your domestic dating adventures in days of yore.

My goal was always to write long enough so that I could spend some time living with them after I got there and (other than a few I met as a lark) I acheived that 100% of the time. Ironicly, many of my trips were to visit only one or two but I made sure I'd be shackin up with them for at least a week. The point is that I did all my screening during a fairly lenghthy correspondence with that goal in mind. I never had a case where I met a woman and wanted to bail right away. (And if I did I always had a backup plan. I still believe this method is sound and I'll go back to it if I ever re-enter the fray.) Those who prefer quanity and cold contacts to quality are in for a long frustrating haul in my opinion.

We all know how Princesses can turn into Witches after a time. Well, it also works the other way around but no one ever thinks that way. Besides, the dating game at home is not played under the same rules and often we just never attempt that second date after the first goes down in flames. We simply trust our judgment is such matters, often a very bad thing to do when it comes to the complexity of people.

It's just another reason to spend time with *any* woman. I mean *real* time, under the same conditions as after you marry her if possible. Assuming she posseses the basics of a good heart, a kind soul and you feel a physical attraction to her...well, the chemistry thing will cause blood to come shootin outta yer nose if you think too much about it. In my opinion, excessive focus on "chemistry" muddys the waters too much and is a detriment to sound judgment.

We want to see the best in people, not the worst, and this takes time. It's human nature to think most people are good. (This same quirk explains why old flames are often rekindled after bad experiences.) I maintain that long relationships are not powered by the "love" and romance people feel during the courtship phase, they're powered by the understanding that only comes with time and effort by the parties involved. The infatuation felt at the begining is nothing more than a fragile birth, easily destroyed for quite some time after. While there are no promises, you demostrate an understanding of this so you might just do ok.

As long as she's obviously not Ma Barker, letting you grow on each other will usually make you surprised at just how different each may feel after spending more time together. We all know people can often grow on us if we give them a chance, why that isn't done more often in MOB is puzzling. After all, they'll be a lifetime of growing on each other after the "fog of infatuation" clears. (Or at least until the divorce happens.) Best to get it right beforehand by sampling the goods, and I don't mean in a physical sense.  Frankly, I see no rocket science here. How do I know this? Because I'm told all the time by other people how I grew on them after an inital bad impression. (lol, if you can imagine that.)

Good luck....

[Zoidberg]

... in response to Thoughts on men..., posted by LP on Jun 28, 2003

**********
LP wrote - "How do I know this? Because I'm told all the time by other people how I grew on them after an inital bad impression. (lol, if you can imagine that.)"
**********

LOL!!!! It is funny because when I first came to the board I did not like you either but over time you have grown on me. hehehe... Your posts show you are an intelligent guy and the reply you just gave shows much more insight and what you did on your trips. It sounds like if I did the WMVM thing I'd have done it your way as well.

I agree everything I said was common sense but as we know not all people have common sense (no offense to anyone here!). I know by comments here it sounds like many people do rely so much on chemistry and will let that ruin a perfectly good relationship. That is why I posted this for thoughts. Just to get people thinking about what they were doing.

**********
LP wrote - "I maintain that long relationships are not powered by the "love" and romance people feel during the courtship phase, they're powered by the understanding that only comes with time and effort by the parties involved. The infatuation felt at the begining is nothing more than a fragile birth, easily destroyed for quite some time after."
**********

I agree 100% on this. That is why communications is so important. I also believe there are many people that you can have a very long and happy life together. You just need to have both sides that know what they are getting into. There will be many sacrifices on both sides and if you find two people willing to do that then you have a chance. Everyone also needs to be realistic though in knowing that all life being together is very difficult. Things can happen where it is no fault to either party. Sometimes over a period of time you just realize it won't work. That is fine if both sides gave it their all to make it work. The key is to find someone that really is willing to give it their all to make it work. That's all we can really ask for right?

Sveta and I had lengthy discussions about all this before we met.

Z.

[LP]

... in response to Great reply LP!!!!, posted by Zoidberg on Jun 28, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]

...I still find it a bit odd you proposed to a woman you just met, all the more so since you rejected her at first. You be somewhat of a loose cannon eh? ;-)

Unfortunately there was a dark side to my journeys. They may have all been closer than I thought after spending time with them but notice I didn't go any further. When you develop a months long relationship with someone (then live with them for a bit) and nothing follows, it can be emotionally traumatic for all those involved.

Such is the downside of that particular process. You get close enough to them that it's not so easy to walk away, even when you know you must. The guilt that often follows is like when your dog chases you in your car until he finally gives up...watching him fade in your rearview can be painful.

[Zoidberg]

... in response to Well...., posted by LP on Jun 30, 2003

**********
LP wrote; "...I still find it a bit odd you proposed to a woman you just met, all the more so since you rejected her at first. You be somewhat of a loose cannon eh? ;-)"
**********

Actually this is the first time anyone called me a loose cannon... Thanks I think! I wrote her for 8 months prior to meeting. The first two months were just answering each other's questions. The next 6 months we did get very close. We sent email, regular mail, SMS & phone calls all the time. Yes, it's not the same as meeting but you can learn a lot about someone when writing and talking so much. Our mistake was we got too close before meeting. I can say if I had to do it again I would have done that differently. I did not reject her when I saw her. I thought she was beautiful and I was very comfortable with her we just didn't feel any of that love that we THOUGHT we had. It was our fault for getting too close before meeting and it was impossible to live up to expectations. After a couple days there was no more expectations and we fell in love with each other. We were able to verify all the things we wrote & talked about for all those months.  

I wasn't sure about proposing on our first meeting. My thought was to just meet and not decide till later. After meeting her and being with her I knew it was right. There was a deeper understanding between us. Does it mean we'll get married and have a wonderful life together for all our life? I don't know. I can't answer that but whatever happens I am happy now and now is when I feel it is right so why wait?

**********
LP wrote; "Such is the downside of that particular process. You get close enough to them that it's not so easy to walk away, even when you know you must. The guilt that often follows is like when your dog chases you in your car until he finally gives up...watching him fade in your rearview can be painful."
**********

I do understand completely as I did it in Ukraine 10 years ago. I went so far with one girl that I went there and she came here. The emotional toll was very difficult. The day we parted ways I was looking in that rearview mirror knowing that was the end. It took a big enough toll on me that I didn't even consider doing this again until 7 years later and then it took me 2 more years to get off my duff to start again.

Doing it this time I had a different approach. I decided what was important to me long before I started writing. I made a list and thought for 2 years what I wanted. At the same time I dated women here looking for the same qualities and what I felt would lead to happy marriage. I am one of those guys that feel I do not need the BEST woman in the entire world. If I was looking for the BEST woman my search would never end. You know how many women there are in this world? What I was looking for is the best woman for me. A woman that has the qualities I desire is what is important. I found that woman and that's why I proposed. Does it mean we'll live happily ever after? No, but we'll live happily ever after for now because we don't know what the future will bring us. There's no guarantee things will work out between us but the only guarantee in life is that we'll all die someday. Until then I'm going to go for it when I feel it's right like now. Right now I did find the BEST woman.

Z

[LP]

... in response to Re: Well...., posted by Zoidberg on Jun 30, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]

...a thoughtful man Zoid, a shame there aren't more in this game. (lol, must be from all that stuff I see you eating on Futurama.) I too had to sent one home after arrival and it haunts me a little to this day. You might be a loose cannon but at least your current aim seems on target. I wish you the best of luck, may your view always be forward.

[Travis]

... in response to You be...., posted by LP on Jun 30, 2003

Look at it like this LP....I REALLY wished right now I would have sent one home!!!!!