Crisis of Conscience... Advice appreciated

[Mars]

... in response to Crisis of Conscience... Advice appreciat..., posted by Howard on Apr 3, 2002

Any promise you made to her will be null and void after your marriage anullment...just like the promises she made.

[BrianN]

... in response to Crisis of Conscience... Advice appreciat..., posted by Howard on Apr 3, 2002

And I can't stand Dr Laura, even though I "used" to listen to her in the truck almost daily.  But there's one thing that I took from her, that's always... errr, made sense, and I try to live by it.

"Who would it benefit?"

In otherwords, if you write, or say or speak words, (of hate, anger, self-embellishment, whatever it is), then who would those words benefit?

In your anger, it would most likely be yourself only, for only a moment, which is obviously the wrong thing to do, and could have the worst repercussions of all.  

Save your anger vents for the pl board, (because they would benefit everyone to read for educational purposes at least - plus it gives us something to do here!), and your good side, for everybody else that you'd just as soon ... ummm, well, like it's said, keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.

You might want to change your tag line Howard, from "keep the faith" to "keep the woman".  That might help too sometime in the future..  (ouch, I was joking at your expense! sorry!).  Hope it made you laugh a little.

[Jeff S]

... in response to Maybe this will sound a little too logic..., posted by BrianN on Apr 3, 2002

The question ought to be, What is YOUR intention? To harm, seek revenge, in spite, in anger? If so, then it probably isn't a good idea, however if it's out of concern for her, to help her out, or some other beneficial reason, then you probably should. That would supercede something you promised to do without knowing all the facts at the time. It seems to me the contract (marriage vows) are already broken. Wasn't it a two way street to love, honor, cherish, have, hold, etc.?

-- Jeff S.

[Bubba]

... in response to Maybe this will sound a little too logic..., posted by BrianN on Apr 3, 2002

Howard already said he wasn't going to write a hate piece but a shorter to the point version.  I think it would be of benefit to him for healing and to them so maybe they can pass the word along as to what a disaster they created by trying to live their child's life for them.

[BrianN]

... in response to Re: Re-read my Post, posted by Bubba on Apr 3, 2002

Put a reference to it too... it's unfortunate how sometimes that first (and sometimes better) responses seem to get bumped down to the bottom of the thread on these things.

[Humabdos]

... in response to Crisis of Conscience... Advice appreciat..., posted by Howard on Apr 3, 2002

I think you should let them know whats going on! But like Bubba said better to wait till after the anullment to avoid problems.

What is she still doing here in the states? Sorry if this sounds a little hard but "WE" don't need her kind in "OUR" country! Please do your part and make sure she is deported ASAP!  To allow her to stay in the USA is a slap in the face of every American.

Humabdos

[Ray]

... in response to Re: Crisis of Conscience... Advice appre..., posted by Humabdos on Apr 3, 2002

"WE" don't need her kind in "OUR" country? And what “kind” is that Hum? A slap in the face of every American? LOL! So, what if she does stay here? How exactly is that going to impact your life? Are you going to stay up at night worrying about it? Is she some kind of terrorist? She would probably make just as good a citizen as you, if not better. Howard doesn’t seem to be bothered with the fact that she is here and neither am I. If it really bothers you that much, why don’t YOU contact the INS yourself and ask to have her deported? I think that would be a good project for you Hum. Let us know what their response is, O.K.? :-)

How’s your visa application coming along?

Ray

[JEM]

... in response to Deport Humabdos, posted by Ray on Apr 3, 2002

Ha Ha the old Humabodos is back in action no holds barred!! Scams like this along with other undesirables posing as priests at the US Embassy  in line for Green Cards result in long waits to get our wives to the USA. If this girl wins and stays in the USA others will take this idea and follow. The culture of corruption will continue to manifest itself and spread like a cancer to our country as well. I know few people buy into my theory: Corruption in society= dishonest people. But I see Howards case as another example.  Wouldn't surprise me if the whole family knew exactly what they were doing. You're a nice guy Howard. After what you've been through your still thinking not hurting those who have done you wrong. I admire that.

[BrianN]

... in response to Re: Deport Humabdos, posted by JEM on Apr 3, 2002

n/t.

[NW Jim]

... in response to Deport Humabdos, posted by Ray on Apr 3, 2002

Ray,
Of course she should be deported! She knowingly used Howard to get to the USA, there may have been pressure from her family to get married, but she is the one who said "I do" apparently knowing she did not love him. That is marriage fraud!

Episodes like this give ammunition to enemies of choice, they will attempt to extrapolate this to show that all MOB marriages are scams. There is enough negative and distorted press about the MOB option-- don't give them ammo.

These incidents also give fuel to all the "scammer wannabe's", when they hear how easy it is to get to the US and stay here, guys will be swimming through a school of greencard sharks.

I am unsure why Howard didn't escort her to the nearest airport and put her on the next plane back to the PI. I would have.

As for "our" country, da*n right. Humabdos and I and every other citizen of this country vote for the legislators to make the laws. These include those laws that regulate immigration. The libertarian nonsense that there should be no immigration laws show law of intellectual capacity.
Give me a break!!!

[Ray]

... in response to Re: Deport Scammers...........wake up Ra..., posted by NW Jim on Apr 3, 2002

Sorry, but I’m wide awake Jim…

First, if you think I’m a Libertarian then you’re wrong. If you are implying that I have ever advocated that there should be no immigration laws, then your doubly wrong.

Deport her for what Jim? I don’t know who’s story you have been reading, but you must be confused with someone else’s story on another board maybe. I’m sure that Howard will correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t he say all along that he felt his wife has been honest with him and that he doesn’t have any animosity toward her? If Howard feels that she didn’t lie to him, then why do you imply that she did? You somehow seem to know more about this woman and her intentions than Howard does. Do you have some sort of crystal ball or something?

What’s all this talk about greencard sharks? You say that she knowingly used Howard to get to the USA? Was that her sole motivation all along Jim? Hell, he practically had to drag her back here from the Philippines. If you had been following his story, then you would know that. Doesn’t sound like a “greencard shark” to me.

You say that she committed marriage fraud because she got married apparently knowing she did not love him. Did she maybe love him a little do you think? Or maybe she only thought she loved him but was too immature to know what real love was? Or maybe she did love him but she didn’t love him enough? How much do you have to love someone before it’s not marriage fraud Jim? Is there a specific immigration law that says you have to love someone and how much you have to love them before you can legally marry? Do you see what I’m getting at? You don’t know this woman or what her true motives were yet you are ready to deport her. What gives you the right to accuse someone without knowing the facts? I can only go by what Howard reported in his posts, but people like you and Humabdos and a few others somehow have the inside scoop on what really went on in this woman’s mind. What ever happened to the principle that says someone is innocent until proven guilty? You and Humabdos have already tried her and are ready to deport her on the next plane back to the Philippines.

I suggest that you get your facts straight before you accuse someone on a public forum of breaking the laws of this country. Now I challenge you to state your case for deportation with specifics. Please do show us EXACTLY what this woman did that would PROVE her guilty in a court of law and make her legally deportable. No generalizations please, just hard facts, the kind that would be admissible as evidence. I would like to know the specific section of the immigration law that she violated and specifically how she violated it. No mind reading or assumptions, just the hard facts. Can you do that Jim? Or are you just blowing smoke like Humabdos?

Anxiously awaiting an intelligent response,

Ray

[NW Jim]

... in response to Wake up???, posted by Ray on Apr 3, 2002

I have been reading Howard's saga for months. If you check Archive 70 on 8/24/02, I was one of the few people who was telling him at that time that the whole story sounded fishy. I respect Howard for having the courage to tell his story here, but I think you would agree he's probably a guy with a heart that is too soft for his own good. He certainly didn't deserve this.

As you recall though, the truth only fully came out once she got here to the US, how convenient. Obviously she is a rather immature young lady, who can't even tell her parents the truth.

You are certainly right that we cannot know what goes on in peoples minds and their changing motivations. If this winds up in front of an immigration judge, they will have to determine whether there was a "Good Faith" marriage, they will determine intent based on the evidence available; conduct prior to the marriage and in some situations conduct after the marriage. See Doc Steen's site. I will leave the lawyering to the immigration attorneys.

Whether the INS orders her removal or not, Howard certainly would have been justified in putting her on the next plane back to the PI. If for no other reason than to protect himself against the very real possibility that she would accuse him of domestic violence to increase her chances of staying.

My main point was that events like this give ammunition to those who oppose choice. If this young lady stays it also gives hope to all those who will do anything to get themselves or their child to the promised land. The events of 9/11 clearly show us why we have immigration laws in this country, the rules are going to continue to be tightened, and will probably make the MOB process more burdensome.

Finally, this is a public forum in which opinions are exchanged regarding MOB issues. I will continue to post my opinion, if it is libelous, let 'em commence court action! I still believe whether due to her immaturity, pressure from her family, etc., she USED Howard to get to the "promised land" and should leave the country one way or another.  

Personally, I do not allow people to attempt to use me without them suffering serious consequences and am uncomfortable seeing others being used and not fighting back.  

[Ray]

... in response to Re: Don't reward scammers and the immatu..., posted by NW Jim on Apr 4, 2002

Jim,

From the information presented in Howard’s story, I guess we could all agree that she was immature when she came here to marry Howard. But being guilty of immaturity is a lot different than being guilty of immigration fraud. When Humabdos says that she is just like the wetbacks that sneak in from Mexico, he is only showing his ignorance of our laws. To imply that I don’t support this country’s immigration laws is just more of the nonsense that Humabdos likes to spew from his big mouth. I would be willing to wager that I have personally reported more illegal immigrants to the INS than Humabdos could even think of in his dreams. If Humabdos is really serious about deporting this woman, then he will contact the INS as I suggested. However, I suspect that he is only blowing smoke as usual :-)

I respect Howard’s judgement and if he wants to pursue this matter with the INS, then I support his decision to do whatever he feels is right. If anyone here has the real facts, it’s Howard, not Humabdos. I still haven’t seen any of the "deport her now" crowd present any solid facts as to exactly how this woman broke the law, but if it makes them feel good to shout it to the world, them more power to them.

These marriages to ladies from another country can be very high risk. Because one of these marriages fails doesn’t automatically mean that someone committed fraud or broke the law. It’s so easy to make accusations against someone, but it is a lot harder to back up your accusations with factual evidence.

Peace,

Ray

[Humabdos]

... in response to Immaturity vs. Evil Criminal, posted by Ray on Apr 4, 2002

Your the one blowing smoke out your arse Righteous Ray Why do you stick up for these sharks Righteous Raymond? I can only guess that maybe your wife or someone you know got into the USA illegally. It's Howards duty to report her not mine. Know one agrees with you Ray.  You better get back down to the border and report some more wet backs. Someone who blows smoke out ther arse like you could shut down the whole mexican border! ROTFLMAF! he he he ;-)

Humabdos

[Ray]

... in response to Righteous Ray  rides again!   LOL, posted by Humabdos on Apr 4, 2002

You’re so funny Hum. Can you back up your position with some factual information for once? Are you even capable of an intelligent discussion of the issues? I just asked because I haven't noticed that trait in you yet.

Since you keep insisting that Ayesa should be treated like a common criminal and deported, would you be kind enough to tell us all precisely which law she violated and how. Come on Humandos, I know you can do it. You seem to have all the answers. Just explain to us all exactly what she is guilty of so we can all agree that she needs to be deported immediately. Please be specific and forget the snide remarks for a minute. I wish you would prove me wrong and say something intelligent for a change.

And please leave my wife out of this discussion. If you are incapable of an intelligent debate, then don’t bring yourself down into the gutter by making snide remarks about your opponent’s wife. You are only showing your ugly side when you stoop to such tactics.

Still waiting for someone to state the section of the law that this woman violated and how.

Ray