Followup: Am I being scammed?

[Cal]

In a nutshell, I do not think I am being scammed.

Very interesting phone call with Olga, not what I expected actually.  The Yahoo Personals posting was an attempt to find someone locally to find out information about me.  Olga did not post it she claimed two of her former girlfriends did, and I have reason to believe her. Her agency also screened her emails and other girls at the agency encouraged her to try to fish for money because they were. Olga initially thought to try this, but then decided she was too scared of getting into trouble.  As far as her character, people screw up.  It's when they get caught that you really find out who they are.

She admitted to thinking about getting money from me and is now quite embarrassed to say the least.  She said that over the months of correspondence, I turned out to be decent and really like a man she wanted to be with. When she changed agencies she hoped to put this past her but did not want to tell me.  When I told her that it was silly to think she could keep things from me like this, she got a bit defensive but then said she was sorry and opened up a bit about some other issues.  Things I won't discuss here. Let's just say that I am a bit wiser today and perhaps don't expect miracles.  If you are hunting for a lily-white eastern European girly-type, good luck chasing a fantasy.  Me, I'll settle for a real woman who screws up and lies from time to time to cover her ass. ;-)

There is some trust repair work that is going to be needed, but her tone and willingness to admit she made a mistake and was sorry was encouraging.  The way I look at it, she has been put on notice that I am not a lovesick, stupid American.  In a strange way,  I think she WANTED to tell me, but was afraid I would scream and yell and dump her.  Hey, that's always an option too! Let's face it guys, women will get away with whatever you allow them to.  Doesn't matter if they are American or Ukrainian. My "gut" tells me Olga is being straight, perhaps more than ever.  So for now I'll continue to plan on visiting her, although Plan-B is being arranged as well.

Cal

[wsbill]

... in response to Followup: Am I being scammed?, posted by Cal on Apr 23, 2003

http://www.russianwomenabroad.com/guide.html

[Cal]

... in response to Re: CAL - READ THIS, posted by wsbill on Apr 24, 2003

Excellent website and my congratulations on your success!  Yah know, I kinda think of you guys like big brothers really, or perhaps Iraqi policemen, slapping people on the back of the head.  Certainly it's all good information, and I appreciate the comments and advice.

Cal

[Alfred]

... in response to Re: Re: CAL - READ THIS, posted by Cal on Apr 24, 2003

I'm glad to hear you beat the trumped up charges.  I hope things work out will for you.

[tim360z]

... in response to Followup: Am I being scammed?, posted by Cal on Apr 23, 2003

If you accept the premise that she ran a personal ad to find out more about YOU...you gotta be nuts.  Now,  if it is true that she ran a personal ad to find out more about you----then she is a moron.  Probably,  she isn't a moron.  So,  the fact is she lied to you about it.  Lies come in all shapes and sizes.  Probably,  more lies will follow.  You can think it to death,  but a lie is a lie.  Whatever the reason.  Its your bowl'o borscht.

[DJD]

... in response to Followup: Am I being scammed?, posted by Cal on Apr 23, 2003

I don't usually get involved in these discussions, but from your post, am I to think that my beautiful and honest wife from Ukraine is just a fantasy?  I think you are rationalizing away your situation.  As said before, there are nice, attractive, and honest women out there, you just need to think clearly and take your time, don't settle.

Dan D.

[Travis]

... in response to Followup: Am I being scammed?, posted by Cal on Apr 23, 2003

One piece of advice. Pay more attention to her actions than her words! My soon to be ex didn't ask for money either at first as her number one priority was coming here, getting married and getting a green card. But she did more than her fair share of draining my bank account once I was hooked...my fault because I wrote off the red flags also. Take my word for it, there is much more at stake than your money. I'm fortunate I didn't end up in jail, lose my home, job and name. I went from sick in love with a beautiful woman to defending myself in court from the false accusations of a suka!

Wanna know something interesting? Everytime I caught her in a lie or doing something that had red flag stamped all over it, she always had an excuse. I'll give an example: two weeks after we married, she wrote one of her friends an email and said she was depressed because she hasn't been able to find a boyfriend. Her excuse? She was mad at me. She didn't write that she was angry and was thinking of looking for a boyfriend, she wrote that she was already looking and couldn't find one. My point being that her actions told the real truth and what she said were lies.

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

[svanos1]

... in response to Re: Followup: Am I being scammed?, posted by Travis on Apr 24, 2003

Let me contrast my situation with this... my wife has written to her best friend who is married (happily and for 1.5 years) to a man in Germany.  She SHOWS me the letters she writes, and translates them with PROMT so I can read them.

How do I know she isn't sending other letters?  Well, there is software that monitors everything done on a computer, so I do know that she is showing me everything.

Soon, I don't think I ever even needed to install this software on my machine in the first place - but better safe than sorry.

And if I could only tell you what the first Russian wife did to me 1.5 years ago.  It was not like Travis because it didn't happen very early.  Actually, I deserve much of the blame for this situation from back in 1993.  But, when we divorced, even after all I had done for her in 9 years, and her getting pregnant by lying about taking birth control pill, she was just as vindicative as the worst of American women.

Again, my strong advice is to marry a Russian woman over 30.

[Streetwise]

... in response to Re: Followup: Am I being scammed?, posted by Travis on Apr 24, 2003

Sobering words Travis, and they should be required reading for anyone getting into this. A red flag is a red flag, better to put emotions aside and not waste precious time trying to analyse it any further when there are so many more to choose from...

One of the reasons why I started to focus on coutries like Latvia is that there are plenty of women available there, but as they are on the verge of joining the EU, they're less likely to resort to desperate "escape routes" to get a Green Card.

[thesearch]

... in response to Phew, that's scary stuff!, posted by Streetwise on Apr 24, 2003

asdf

[thesearch]

... in response to Followup: Am I being scammed?, posted by Cal on Apr 23, 2003

Cal,

First I need apologize for what I am going to say, as in one sense I can argue why I should keep my mouth shut here whereas on the other hand I can argue why it might not be a bad idea to throw a monkey wrench into all of this - so here comes the wrench. I believe it is better for me to take some heat from you then to not speak out here.

First let me give my disclaimer. I obviously only have limited information which either could make any assessment worthless or ironically could allow the truth to come through for a third party and clearly in the final analysis only God and Olga (and perhaps her friends) know what the truth is.

I do not buy that Olga was trying to find out about you by running a personal. NO Way. I mean, a guy responds to her personal because he is interested in her and then she is going to tell him she is not interested in him but just wants him to find out about you?? You believe that?

I am getting the suspicion that you are a nice guy who tends to believe the best and you are capable of manipulating the data of what you see and are told into whatever conclusion you need so as to arrive at the explanation that you desire to be reality. I am not criticizing you - we have all done it. I have and I feel that I can smell it now in you just as I have seen it in myself and others. I just get the feeling that you are indulging in this to some degree. As to what degree? Who knows - but I would bet my last dollar that it is there. Usually the one doing this is the least able to access this - and commonly they feel inclined to attack anyone who suggests they are in this mode.

So, just think about it --- if you accept the possibility that what I am saying could have some relevance then you will be more able to see and access correctly the yellow and red flags that most certainly will surface with this lady in the future if she is not what you think she is. You will also find that as the red flags mount you will become less willing to make up explanations and excuses for the situation.

On the other hand, there have been many instances where seemingly glaring red flags follow by other actions of suspicion have occurred with guys and there FSU ladies and in the final analysis they were nothing - more created by communication issues and cultural differences.

IMHO - you need to give her a major demerit, consider her a potential scammer and proceed as though you trust her, not letting her know that you are eyeing her with caution.

The fact that she admitted some things such as considering taking money is not good. A good woman would never even think of such in most cases unless she was in very a very desperate situation. You are rationalizing away stuff too easily. Even so, the scammers have many sophisticated techniques - by admitting and then changing it by saying that she decided against it because you are such a nice guy can be a very disarming technique for the right guy.

Heaven forbid if LP read your posts and decided to share his perspective. As of late he has not been around as much so you may not be aware of his demeanor.

Anyway,

Good luck to you.

[Patrick]

... in response to Re: Followup: Am I scamming myself?, posted by thesearch on Apr 23, 2003

I'd have to agree with Thesearch's assesment.  It sure doesn't sound very logical to put a personal ad out with your home town as her residence to gather information about you.  I think a more logical reason would be to develop contacts there as a potential backup plan in case you don't marry her (maybe someone else would) or the even worse scenario that she planned on marrying you and seeing someone else on the side.

Of course, if the ad was placed only days after you began correspondance, then it would seem that the likelyhood of her ending up there wouldn't have been very high at that point.

I would be exceptionally cautious with this one.  Actually, I would have simply moved on to the next if it were me.  There's plenty of fish in the sea.  Why keep a potential bad choice on the line?  I know at times the search can be draining and there's a tendency to just move ahead with the one you've got rather than starting over with new women. Finding a wife this way takes a lot of patience and mistakes can be very costly both financially and emotionally.

[Cal]

... in response to Re: Followup: Am I scamming myself?, posted by thesearch on Apr 23, 2003

Honestly, I appreciate all of the comments from everyone.  Sometimes a good old-fashioned slap on the head is good, I don't mind the comments a bit.  It's why I am here, right? If I wanted to have my advice sugar-coated, I wouldn't be here.  Olga was my favorite so far, but we'll see how things progress now that the air is cleared. Live and learn as they say.  Some of our discussion was of a nature that leads me to believe she was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.  And desparate.

There is always Elena, Helen, Galina and a couple of other decent women I correspond with as well.  All in the same general area of Odessa, so I'm a bit miffed, but insured so to speak.  Maybe Olga is truly a "podsirushka", maybe not. I have great faith in the ability of people to change their ways, especially when busted.  Time will tell if this applies to this particular Ukrainian woman.  If it doesn't, so be it.

Regardless of Olga, the Russian lessons continue and so does the pursuit.  Hey, I'm 3/8 Russian, marriage to an Eastern european woman is in my blood. I'm not going to marry another American woman, so the way I see it, there is nothing to lose. I could burn $10,000 on this venture and STILL not be close to the money hemmorage from my divorce from the American spawn of Satan.  At least Olga lied up front, maybe she has come around. Either way, I'll be sure to keep in touch with other women.  

Cal

[thesearch]

... in response to There are always others :-), posted by Cal on Apr 24, 2003

"leads me to believe she was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. And desparate."

Cal, you are rationalizing as to why you should accept her behavior. Read LP's comment below.

"I have great faith in the ability of people to change their ways, especially when busted."

Now, you are assuming that someone will change or maybe you can help change her (in the back of your head maybe).

A major rule of life is do not expect someone to change as they usually do not and never expect that you can change them. Yes there are wonderful examples of people changing their ways but there are crowds of people who do not and only give lip service at best or change for a while only to revert.

Your position is one of gambling. This is not the place to gamble my friend. I am not saying dump her even though I would in a heart beat. However, as good as you are at rationalizing you are challenging your vulnerable side my friend. I do  not want you to come back her like Travis to tell your story. There is too much heart ache when these things go wrong. You have to have your wits about you.

You need to listen to Travis. Actions are what you should look at not words. People who have wrong intentions usually get very good at words to disarm as this is their only defense to change your view of their actions.

[Globetrotter]

... in response to There ya go again, posted by thesearch on Apr 24, 2003

Very well said.  It's normally women who think to themselves
....if I can only get past those tatoos, what a wonderful person he'll be when I change him for the better.  One can change behavior...smoking, drinking, bad habits...but not their character (that's who you are when no one is looking)

Like LP says, if you're too needy and can't be self critical
you're pissing up a rope.