Followup: Am I being scammed?

[wsbill]

... in response to Re: There ya go again, posted by Globetrotter on Apr 24, 2003

I have to admit I'm the same way.

There is something about a woman that has a tatto on her back at the waist.  It's like she's biker bait or property.

Just looks so tacky and sleezy. (I'm a sailor and I don't even have a tatto, I suppose if I go back in for the next 12 years and do my 20, I'll have to get one on my arm of a naked lady that when twist my arm a certain way she does something naughty... since that'll be about as close to a woman as I will ever be able to get, while on the boat.)

Just like a woman that smokes!!!  She could be a knock out model, but all it takes is one hit from that cigarette and in my mind she's history!

[wsbill]

... in response to There ya go again, posted by thesearch on Apr 24, 2003

People are just creatures of habit.  It takes resounding resolve to redevelop a pattern which conflicts with their ideas.

You sound more in denial, than you really are facing up to the facts which are before you.

[Travis]

... in response to There are always others :-), posted by Cal on Apr 24, 2003

What is this word "podsirushka"? I'm always trying to expand my vocabulary.

[Cal]

... in response to Re: There are always others :-), posted by Travis on Apr 24, 2003

Basically a con artist.  

Cal

[LP]

... in response to Re: Followup: Am I scamming myself?, posted by thesearch on Apr 23, 2003

...my "demeanor" is much softened these days. I'm passing the torch on to you, I long ago came to the realization that a good portion of the folks involved in this (on both sides) are their own worst enemies. And a few of 'em - well, they be just plain loco.

Besides you said it very well, especialy that part about scamming oneself. Not that it'll matter much, there is no reasoning with a drunken man. ;-)

[thesearch]

... in response to Nah....., posted by LP on Apr 23, 2003

LP, dunna think that I can carry that torch - I just do not have the flare for it. I am a bit too diplomatic LOL

Who knows, maybe that technique will work but I agree with you, for some- no mater what you say nothing will change and they will have to learn for themselves and hopefully teach others when and if they return with their nightmare story.

Hopefully that will not be Cal's fate. The keyboard only reveals some of the reality that is out there and most certainly does not reveal enough so one is always guessing and simply throwing out statements that are either relevant or not. I made my comments for Cal as I don't want him to get burned. I wish him the best. And ya know LP, a guy who does this all correct can get burned and then there is our Maui friend who got married after one meeting and all is going great with him. Cal could ignore all the rules and come out smelling like a rose.

However in my own way I will call them as I see them.

[LP]

... in response to Re: Nah....., posted by thesearch on Apr 24, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]

...fine my good doctor, tact and diplomacy beat the hard truth anyday of the week. Here, let me show you what kind of response the truth gets. ;-)

I have come to realize that this all boils down to risk vrs reward, cost vrs benefit. While many focus on the risk/cost, it strikes me the real issue with many MOB men is benefit/reward. Take old Cal there for instance. He speaks about a nasty prior divorce but here he is engaged in a process that, compared to the "normal" way of doing things, has many more variables that logically make it far riskier the same will happen. In fact, most MOB guys seem to have had one or more hard knocks yet they can't wait for another go at it and think this is the answer.

Why do they do it? My observations are that those who are willing to take such risks are simply more in need of the benefits. After all, why is the motivation so powerful?  Seems MOB draws such folks like a magnet, otherwise they would see the risk clearly outweighs the benefit. Or does it? This is the crux of the matter. It depends on how badly one perceives his need for the benefit. There are simply those that are more dependent on others to be happy, to feel complete. There are those that see women as a neccessity in life instead of an enhancement. Something they simply must have or else life is painful for them. I like women also but not enough to foolishly believe that a marraige license makes them immune from sticking it to me. It's funny how many MOB guys are so needy to think it does, in many cases these are the same guys who should know better.

I see it all the time in such statements as "I wake up everyday and thank God I found her", "It's all worth it", or "I couldn't be happier". Are these people so unhappy in life that they must thank God they found someone to be with? Does it rachet up their sense of well being so much they had to muster like lemmings to the FSU sea? Is it just me or does anyone else see how telling this is about a certain type of personality? I submit that people who're less dependent on others for happiness will view *quick* FSU relationship risks for what they truly are: more than they're worth. Because while the benefits of having a lady are nice, they're not (and should not) be what makes one's world go round.

If they do, it would explain much of the behavior observed herebouts. Many MOB guys seemed to have conditioned themselves to think two people must be joined to make each whole, else why would they keep coming back to it with such fever? And if they absolutely must have someone, couldn't there possibly be an easier way with less hassle than this one?

I guess it's because I've not been married for 20 years and have been plenty comfortable with the alternative of having a few around for a long time and moving on when it's time, saving myself lots of grief in the process. I've seen the risks and associated failures of MOB for years now and when I weigh them against my need for the benefits (and not the benefits themselves), I see it as a no brainer decision. I mean come on, it only took me one marriage to learn it isn't all it's cracked up to be. You'd think guys who keep getting their clocks cleaned and their hearts busted would wise up. Instead many rush into this where it's even more risky. Amazing....

In other words: there is no need to get burned, no need to take a big chance if one at least goes about it with some perspective. If the same effort was expended on learning where the fairer sex really belongs in one's life there would be a lot less foolishness going on. I guess it comes down to desperate people doing desperate things when they really oughta be looking inward and learning how to be less desperate.

As for our pal from Maui (now *there* is a man who demonstrated need, the poster boy for this theory), his "success" is an illusion based only on the short time involved. Anyone can pick a chick and do the deed, lets see how he does in 5 years or so. (I beleive they'll do OK though, for reasons you might be surprised at.)

[Bobby Orr]

... in response to You'll do....., posted by LP on Apr 25, 2003

It is wise to be cautious - but I still think the average guy, if he is able to handle / enjoy a cross-cultural relationship can get a prettier, sexier girl, with all other things being equal if he chooses the FSU route.  Are the chances high of getting burned - yes.  Is it more difficult - definitely.  Is it worth it......depends on the guy, luck and time.

[LP]

... in response to Caution is wise, posted by Bobby Orr on Apr 25, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]

.....prettier? Is that your goal? Is that your risk/reward criterion?
Is *that* worth the chances of getting badly burned?

Seems like a classic case of thinking with your hockey stick there Bobby ;-)

[Pordzhik]

... in response to You'll do....., posted by LP on Apr 25, 2003

That's a long time to be single (I was for many years after my first marriage) A lonely depressing time to begin with, but I soon got to enjoy a life of freedom and no compromising, (I understand fully your desire to keep that) great for awhile until I became tired of going from one woman to another and my thoughts grew more concerned with raising another family and finding less and less decent women without baggage here in England available to me, and I don't have an infinate number of years to raise them children nor an infinate number of years to find a decent woman here.

Sure I could've remained single and had more children, it already happened. I now have son and daughter and am lucky if I get to see them once every two years, as the courts in this country offer little protection to unmarried fathers and zero protection if the mother happened to already be married.

Maybe you don't have any children, maybe you never wanted them, maybe you'll never want any, I've never read in any of your posts anything about them. If I remember rightly you are now about fifty, still have some vitality and youth, and can enjoy the company of many single women out there, where will you be when you reach seventy? I rather hope that I'll be enjoying the company of wife, children and grandchildren.

It's not just about having any woman to complete our lives, as most of the guys here I would guess have the same motivations as myself. There's the long run to consider.

Sadly for you, the deal here (imposed by our guvmints) is K1 and marriage. That rules out RW in your life. You can't keep your cake and eat it too!

[LP]

... in response to 20 years, posted by Pordzhik on Apr 25, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]

....I've been divorced since 1977 and have two children who are now adults with children. I've not been single, in all that time I have had an emtpy house for a total of 3 years. The shortest of those deals was 5 years, the longest 14. Just no marriages and I'm thankful for that because they were fairly painless in the end. Some had to end because of work, I've changed careers three times. (While stability in life is good, I believe monotony is bad.)

I'm in the same situation now, living with a nice woman. While I have had the oppurtunity of enjoying the company of many single women I have rarely used that option.

I'm well aware of the "long run" and don't plan on being alone. I already have the children, grand children, etc, and want no more children. I started out early and now it's my time to enjoy life as I see fit. I have no problem with pursuing this except the 90 day timeline. I got into this as a curiousity and have never been on a "mission". After two years I found something at home that I consider superior to anything I found there. I've also met a few young and beautiful R/W located in North America but decided against them. For example, Quebec is a gold mine of R/W, makes it a lot easier than dealing with the FSU.

I can have my cake and eat it too, at least for now. But one thing I've learned is nothing is forever. Every couple who stands on the alter today thinks they'll be different and will last. Jokingly, being in love seems to be worst time to get married. And there is something about spending your entire life with only one person that strikes me as odd. Variety is the spice of life and all that....

I'll marry again one day, I have nothing against it as long as I take the time to do it right and when I know there will be little chance of it exploding. The older we both are the better those chances will be and I'm capable of being satisfied even with being single, if need be.

I understand my situation may be different than others and my FSU interests aren't dead, I just see an easier way without the risks for the time being. But you can bet if I do ever get involved again I will take as much time as needed. The first time around was a learning process that  only instilled more caution. I've learned much from these woman about their real motives when I was no longer their target, they aren't scammers but their first priority has been escape in every single case. Love has nothing to do with it because they themselves admit love can't happen in the *typical* FSU short time scenario, only after they arrive is that chance possible.  They want a happy marrriage and hope for the best, but for most of them they first want out of the life they have. Thats something most guys simple refuse to believe.

As for women in England, yeah, you have my understanding. From what I've seen the cupboard is indeed pretty bare.

[Pordzhik]

... in response to In reality..., posted by LP on Apr 25, 2003

Plenty of time for you yet, I agree that the 90 days K1 the US imposes on you guys is a bit short, here we get six months to consider if we've made the right choice before marriage and another year on top of that if we decide to pull out of the arrangement and she gets sent back.

Seems like the US is an easier option for those women with less than sincere motives.

Despite being amongst the richest people in the world, I see here too many of you americans concerned with costs of travel to far away FSU, and many going for the one trip of two weeks, getting engaged, doing the K1 and bringing a wife back they hardly know, recipe for disaster. I went over for many trips to get to know my wife, even just for weekends, hardly possible for most from USA with high airfares and short vacation time, but it's not easy they got to cough up that cash and be prepared to take any amount of time and trips over to be sure they found the right one.

As you don't want any more children, I think your best bet then would be to go for a woman a little older who has children already, as any young woman who claims she don't want them is either lying or got something wrong with her hormones.

[Globetrotter]

... in response to You'll do....., posted by LP on Apr 25, 2003

Nicely done.  Sometimes the truth hurts.  I've often thought of you as the guy who pees on the campfire, but can find fault with little that you say.  I started in this persuit believing all the BS the agencies said....unspoiled 50's vintage girls only looking for a good man.  Took a while to figure out that girls are girls no matter where you find them.

The numbers of available women were/are overwhelming...all ages, shapes, sizes, occupations.  Doctors, lawyers, engineers, bio-chemists...just pick one.  Ah, if life were just so easy.  Unfortunately, there is no easy way to do the most difficult thing we will ever do in our lifetimes.
(Finding a great mate)

Some will argue that a girl can only be a good actress for a few weeks or months or meetings.  I think they can be good actresses for as long as it takes...it's their nature.

Guys can rationalize anything.  The efficacious word can become truth if you say it to yourself long enough....this is why, how, and the way I'll make it work.

This persuit holds promise, as long as you keep your head on straight, but no more so than finding one here if you try hard enough. The choices though, over there, are so varried.

I'll say it again, "Look at the way things really are, as opposed to the way you would like them to be."....and cover your ass, just in case.

[thesearch]

... in response to You've Said It All!, posted by Globetrotter on Apr 25, 2003

So what is 3 inches of correspondence? (your profile)

[Globetrotter]

... in response to Re: You've Said It All!, posted by thesearch on Apr 25, 2003

Actually the 3 inches of correspondence has turned into 5 or more.  The first I dated was a scammer (34) from Minsk, the next a "needy" (40) Ukrainian, before I found my Russian girl.  I have never doubted the seriousness of the persuit, goal or work involved.  I still don't know if I'm up to the task.  I've told her all my concerns and she still wants in.  

I don't think I fit into the "needy" catagory...enhancement
I like.  I do think this is the most difficult thing we will ever do, and maybe take it more seriously than others.

Any guy who marries any woman takes a great chance.  Anyone can be conned, so how lucky do you feel?  Two of the 3 I met wanted a change of address more than they wanted a partner.  Hell, even Jack will tell you that 50% are scammers.  My rate was 66%.

My Dad owned a retail store in a Polish and Lithuanian neighborhood and was fluent in those languages and got most of their trade.  I dated girls right off the boat from when I was 18.  Their accents were almost identical, as well as their living conditions are today. I didn't mind. I always thought maybe you start with a little better stock and takes your chances.  I watched Eastern Europeans change to Americans before God got the news!  That's OK when niether of you have anything to lose and both start out pretty even.

I've lost once like many, and didn't like it then, and would like it less now.  So, I've got more of an LP attitude
when it comes to pulling the trigger again.

I always thought that you had better be better than the best
to play this game, and still, your world can come tumbling down.  My squeeze has told me about her lying, cheating, drinking ex-husband.  I told her about my "bimbette."(little
bimbo)

So, Dr. Search, I'm still thinking about it, trying to do it right or not at all....and doing it wrong scares the Hell out of me. And, I tell her of all my concerns and why I feel this way.