Newbie needs some advice from the vets

[duggins]

I will be leaving for my first trip to the FSU at the end of June (Kyiv, Odesa, Crimea). I'll be there for three weeks. After looking through the books of a lot of on-line agencies, as well as corresponding with two girls from amigos.com whom I quickly identified as scammers, I have decided to try to see what happens without going the agency route.

I've read conflicting opinions out there. Some people have said that Russian/Ukrainian women are shy, and that without the benefit of using an agency, I will have no luck in meeting women there. Others say that it's ridiculously easy to meet them, and that agencies are simply unnecessary. Perhaps the truth is somewhere in between...

To give you some background information, I'm an attractive 32-year-old guy who just hasn't had much success in finding the "total package"--i.e. a girl who's intelligent, attractive and whose company I enjoy. I am not necessarily going to Ukraine with a sense of urgency to search for a wife, but rather to expand my search internationally and "see what happens."

My Russian language skills are coming along but are still in the beginning stages. I hope to go with a vocabulary of a few hundred words.

So, my question to the veterans here is essentially this: would you strongly suggest that I go the agency route, or do you feel that I could have success in meeting a sufficient number of women without the benefit of an agency? And, if you suggest that I do not need an agency, what are the best avenues to meeting women there?

Any help that you could provide would be much appreciated!

[DanM]

... in response to Newbie needs some advice from the vets, posted by duggins on Apr 18, 2003

You have received a lot of good advice here. I especially think the personal ad could be helpful. Since you know some basic Russian, this would probably be a very good option for you.

My two cents are not on the subject of how you will meet the girl. My trip advice is to say that you should not put too much pressure on yourself during the trip. You do not have to close a deal before you go home. This certainly is not a win/lose scenario. Just remember you are only there to meet a few nice girls. There is absolutely no reason to think you must find Mrs. Right on the first trip.

See a few interesting things. Meet some interesting people. Let things happen at a more natural pace.  Heck, you could very likely leave without an exclusive girlfriend. Just remember this does not equate to failure. Love does not follow any timetables. All you can do is improve your probabilities and then let fate take its course.

Take care and good luck.

[Bobby Orr]

... in response to Newbie needs some advice from the vets, posted by duggins on Apr 18, 2003

If you go with a good agency the dollars spent is well worth it - especially if it is your first or second time over.

[Bobby Orr]

... in response to Agency help, posted by Bobby Orr on Apr 19, 2003

Ah, "Good Agency" is usually an oxymoron.  Many agencies have been helpful to me - I will give you my ratings if you email me privately.

[John K]

... in response to Newbie needs some advice from the vets, posted by duggins on Apr 18, 2003

As someone already said, an agency can provide many services to you, such as hotel accomodations, interpreters, dinner reservations, a car and driver, tours, etc.  Of course, you can also use a good local Ukrainian/Russian travel agent to do all these things for you too.  The advantage of using an agency is that they will also have some ladies who are looking for a foreign husband, in case you are unsuccessful on your own.

In my case, I had already settled on one woman, by the time I went to Ukraine my first time.  I didn't need a marriage agency, but I did use a travel agency in Ukraine called Triada Travel.  I found their service to be exemplary.  They booked my room and had it stocked, per my request, with fruits, flowers, candies and bottled water.  They also arranged for a car and driver to meet me at the airport, and they had an interpreter for Marina and me a couple of days after I arrived, to help us with immigration photos and paperwork.

My second trip, I used a Ukrainian gentleman named Dmitri Pugach, whom was highly recommended on this board at that time.  Dmitri took care of hotel reservations in Kiev and Sevastopol, cars and drivers in both cities, train tickets for a cabin for ourselves, and some vacation tours to various places of interest.  We didn't have to worry about findng a taxi as we got off the plane or train.  He was good, but Marina and I didn't care for the way he spent our money.  We were on a tight budget, and it felt like Dmitri was milking us for all that we were worth.

On my third and subsequent trips, we've relied on our own abilities and those of her family.  We know what we want to do and we simply do it.  We stay with Marina's family when we visit, so expenses are much less.  If we do want a night alone, we can always pack an overnight bag and run down to the hotel for the night.  That, or her parents will go visit friends for the night.

I would suggest for your first trip to at least use a local travel agency to make your visit easier.  If you want a little extra "backup" for your search for a Ukrainian girl, then use a marriage agency instead.  As you become more familiar with how everything works over there, on subsequent trips you can choose to do things more on your own.  Having the security of having someone watch out for you that first trip really reduces your stress level a lot.

As always, this is simply my 2¢ and strictly my own opinion.  Use it as you will...

[duggins]

... in response to Newbie needs some advice from the vets, posted by duggins on Apr 18, 2003

I really appreciate the help, and you have all given me some good ideas. It does seem like a combination of agencies, a personal ad and spontaneous encounters is probably the best choice. The most compelling argument for going the agency route, in my opinion, is that it allows for a much more efficient use of the limited time I'll have. Three weeks will come and go pretty quickly....

Thank you again for all the advice!

Doug

[keithandkatya]

... in response to Newbie needs some advice from the vets, posted by duggins on Apr 18, 2003

To thine own self be true... what do you feel comfortable with?  Some guys feel better going to socials or to an agency and look through books of girls or websites and meet several or many girls that way... later narrowing it down to one hopefully... I personally know several marriages that have resulted from this approach and they are doing fine... I know other guys like myself that put out personal ads and knew the girl quite awhile before going over there and it has worked for me and for them... my belief is whatever works for you is the right way... and that depends on who you are and what you are looking for...

From what you wrote in your letter it seems like perhaps you will go over there and use an agency...and while I found my girl through an ad I did have help from Jack and his assistant in Kiev.. Rostick... I would seriously suggest you have some kind of help while you are there... I do not think several hundred words of Russian are going to cut it... but I could be wrong... I do give you credit for learning what you have managed to learned... it will come in handy but I still think you could benefit from Rostick or some one you can trust to help you over there.

Ukraine is like many places ... you will meet some friendly people and some not so friendly... perhaps you can just pick up some girl in a shop or somewhere... of course it is possible... like it would be anywhere but if you are going to spend the money, the time, etc. to make the trip I would feel more comfortable with a more organized approach and since you do not have anyone you have written to that you are going to meet in Ukraine it means going the agency route... but that is just my perspective... you may have a different approach depending on who you are and what you are looking for...  I wish you luck and a good trip...
one final piece of advice... try to find a good person and dont settle for someone who will make your live miserable but know this... there is no perfection and looking for it is a fool's game... you will have to accept some things and she will have to accept some things about you too- and hopefully together you will become one in love...
all the best,

Keith

[FLASH2D]

... in response to Newbie needs some advice from the vets, posted by duggins on Apr 18, 2003

hey!
 i am a newbie, but if you are like me i prefer to go it alone. try a personal ad. you will receive more mail than you know what to do with. i have heard from the "FORUM-NERS" to be specific. that is good advice. you have plenty of time. give it at least a week or better to get responses. if you are specific about the area you intend to visit, and the type of woman you desire, you might be able to cull out the ones you are not interested in. for me, i felt it was better to make contact first and get a foundation. ask yourself, do you really want to pick up the barflies, or are you  looking for a mate?  i will actually be meeting only one lady soon. this is my first trip, so it will be live and learn. check it out, don't feel pressured, and have a good time.

[Charles]

... in response to Newbie needs some advice from the vets, posted by duggins on Apr 18, 2003

In addition to the excellent observations of KenC and AllenB, you still have time to put in a personal ad.  I would suggest contacting Jack at firstdream on this.  I would echo AllenB's point about the larger cities being less of a "market" than in the past.

[KenC]

... in response to Newbie needs some advice from the vets, posted by duggins on Apr 18, 2003

Duggins,
Why limit yourself to one option?  You probably would do OK on your own, but an agency can also provide you with:
an interpreter
affordable lodging
a list of available women
as much "hand holding" as you want

Don't think of them as a "marriage" agency, but more as an introduction and or dating service.  Just be honest with the gals about not rushing to the alter and most will be understanding.  The ones that are in a rush to marry, probably should be avoided any way.  LOL.  If more guys took your approach (just meet some and see what happens) there would be a lot less horror stories here and on other forums.  You don't have to have a schedule with an agency where every waking moment is planned out for you.  Even if you use the interpreters as "tour guides" to show you where the good clubs (and women) are, wouldn't it be worth it?  Just tell the agency that you want a lot of free time.
KenC

[AllenB]

... in response to Newbie needs some advice from the vets, posted by duggins on Apr 18, 2003

In all the time that I have gone to Ukraine I never once used an agency.  I am not saying that there is anything wrong with an agency, I just don't have any experience with them.  I decided not to use an agency because I am considered a good looking and pretty outgoing guy.  If you are not outgoing then I guess the agency route would make more sense.

Anyhow, I went first to Kiev and spent time going to various different clubs, shopping centers, markets, etc.  Anyplace where girls would tend to be that's where I went and would introduce myself to the ones I was interested.  They are all very nice and I never had any problem meeting with them and going out on dates.  One thing to caution you on is when you are going to the clubs there are many girls that prostitutes.  You will find alot of them at the River Palace on the Dniper.

I also visited Dnepropetrovsk and Krivoy Rog which are undiscovered gems.  Kiev, Odessa, Kherson, Kharkov have millions of beautiful girls to choose from collectively but they are used to meeting foreign men and having these men buy them things for their affections.  If you just want to have some fun than the larger cities are great but I was sincerely looking for a wife.  I found my wife in Krivoy Rog and she is beautiful, intelligent, sweet, unspoiled, greatful, loving and pure until after we married.  You won't find that in the cities where the romance tours are conducted.

If you are sincere about finding a wife that is unspoiled with old fashioned values I would stick to the smaller cities that are off the beaten path and never, never, never be flashy, pushy, arrogant or rude.  Ukrainian girls (especially in the smaller cities) are very sweet and polite and will not have anything to do with somebody who will not respect them.

Good luck!!!