re-uniting the soviet union....article

[cherokee]

http://english.pravda.ru/main/2003/03/06/44126.html

[Jersey Mike]

... in response to re-uniting the soviet union....article, posted by cherokee on Mar 6, 2003

After meeting and talking with many expats of the FSU during my 3+ years of marriage to my ex-wife, I sense there is a love-hate thing going on between the smaller republics and mother Russia.  Russia treated many of these republics brutally over the years while it dominated the Soviet Union (politically, economically and culturally.)  The peoples of the different republics are very nationalistic and have their own traditions & languages, but had russian language and culture forced down their throats during the soviet era.  There was a sense of elitism towards Russia that seems to linger today.  Historically, it is not forgotten that the people of the smaller republics bore the brunt of the Stalinist purges.

However, there remains a strong longing for the relative economic comfort under the old soviet system of socialism, particularly given the abject poverty that is so pervasive in many of the smaller republics now.  The political climate may eventually force the leaders of the various republics to pragmatically form a more cohesive working relationship with Russia and the other republics in order to provide short-term economic relief.  However, given such a diverse group of peoples, I personally think it will be difficult to reassemble a coalition that much resembles the former Soviet Union.

[wsbill]

... in response to re-uniting the soviet union....article, posted by cherokee on Mar 6, 2003

cowboys use to circle their wagons in the old wild west to fend off the enemy.

The ole'hunker down mentality won't dig them out of any financial holes or economy messes.

They know they've missed out on any real great expansion in the west and their feeble economies are on very wobbly legs, if the ole'USA economy is firing on all cylinders..so will theirs, but when were running on a couple of fouled plugs and the engines is out tune.  Well that pretty much sums up how their economy is going to fare.

Atleasts they've seen the bottom to their economy, we're just getting started on that slippery slope downward.

[tfcrew]

... in response to re-uniting the soviet union....article, posted by cherokee on Mar 6, 2003

..article. Yeah right! Another Iraqi lying claim..

[BubbaGump]

... in response to re-uniting the soviet union....article, posted by cherokee on Mar 6, 2003

I think the dislike between Russia and Georgia is mutual. Georgians believe Russia is responsible for rebels trying to destabilize the country.  I don't think the Baltic republics would want to join up either because of their greater prosperity since the split.

[BURKE89]

... in response to Re: re-uniting the soviet union....artic..., posted by BubbaGump on Mar 6, 2003

Bubba, how might you bring: Estonians, Latvians & Lith... into this quandry?

[BubbaGump]

... in response to Re: : Re-uniting the soviet union....art..., posted by BURKE89 on Mar 7, 2003

I don't think they would ever want to be part of the Soviet Union (or Russia) again.  Latvia appeared very prosperous relative to Saint Petersburg which is the only other place I visited.  Latvia had some houses going up in the countryside that looked to be from 2000 to 4000 square feet and are comparible to good middle class homes in the USA.  The homes were brick and very nice.  Estonia and Lithuania do well also from what I read.  The people leaving Latvia were almost all ethnic Russians.  I met maybe 16 Russians and one Lat.  Russians don't even want to learn to speak Latvian and one Russian girl I spent time with said she only knows about 30 words in Latvian.  

The countries that seem to want to get back with Russia are the ones that are not doing well, like Ukraine and Belarus.  Belarus is particularly poor.  

[Rags]

... in response to Re: Re: : Re-uniting the soviet union......, posted by BubbaGump on Mar 7, 2003

I don't believe that Ukraine wants anything to do with joining in any close political alliance with Russia. You've obviously never been to Lviv or Eastern Ukraine. They hate Russians, period. There is a strong movement inside Ukraine to stop teaching the Russian language in schools.

Belarus may be the desparate, redheaded stepchild of the FSU but they aren't making any overatures to be annexed back by Russia either.

I could foresee possible further fractures within Russia such as the far east (Kamchatka Peninsula). Just ask people from Vladivostok and they will tell you that they are Russian in name only.

[DanM]

... in response to Whoa there!, posted by Rags on Mar 8, 2003

As for the the people from Ukraine, you are 100% correct. They have no wish to join in a political union with Russia. Also I think a lot of Russians would not want Ukraine back if it was offered.

I remember that the president of Belarus wanted to reunited with the Russians a while back. Has he changed his mind again?

Don't know much about the far east breaking away from Russia, but I seriously doubt Putin will allow it. My guess is that he will do whatever it takes to keep the far east as part of Russia.

[BubbaGump]

... in response to Whoa there!, posted by Rags on Mar 8, 2003

You could be right.  I have never been to Ukraine or Belarus.  I think some of this reunification speculation I have read about comes from the feeling of some that things were better in the old Soviet Union days.

[micha1]

... in response to Re: Re: : Re-uniting the soviet union......, posted by BubbaGump on Mar 7, 2003

As an answer to all of the posts above.
All of the ex-eastern countries will be somehow reunited
within 20 years as they will join Europe commun market.
Warsaw, Prague and Bratislava are, very soon, going to be admitted.
The others will follow.  Life as to go on.
Why did the turkish parliament voted not to have US troops on their soil,
because they want to join Europe.

[DanM]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: : Re-uniting the soviet unio..., posted by micha1 on Mar 7, 2003

Turkey is not refusing to support us because they want to join the EU. Turkey is refusing to support our war efforts because the war is very unpopular with their general population. The polls show Turks are very much against it. Although we do have the support of their military and we do have many friends in their government, they also have a lot of increasingly religous muslims who are against our presence in the region and especially against our occupation of Iraq.

As for the EU thing, thier actions actually work against thier ambitions for membership. Think about it. We have been the single biggest advocate for Turkish membership in the EU. In fact, there have been a lot of articles about American political arm twisting over the issue of Turkey being considered as a candidate. The EU has been, at best, lukewarm to the idea of their membership. Various human rights issues are always cited, but the big sticking point is thier occupation of northern Cyprus. Now that we will be less active advocates for Turkish membership in the EU, I think their membership is a long way off.

As for European attitudes towards the war, they are not as united as one might think. Eight countries signed an accord in support of us. I believe they were Spain, Portugul, UK, Denmark, Poland, Czechs, Italy and one other. This is more an issue of France and Germany against the US. Although it is the French ambition to speak for Europe, it is not a reality. At least not yet.

Although this is a big way for the French to convince themselves they are relevant in world politics, they have done little more than weaken NATO, the EU and the UN. Thats a heavy price to pay for them stroking thier own egos.

As for the Germans, I think thier motives are those of honest (if unrealistic) pacifists. Remember this is the country where the Greens are politcally relevant.

Hope I did not bore everyone with the long ramble. CNN.com and Foxnews.com say it a lot better than me.

[Mike]

... in response to Rambling points regarding Turkey and the..., posted by DanM on Mar 7, 2003

You said a mouth full but it was said well! My wife has business friends in Turkey and they are worried that the lower class majority may some day run things with that religous fanatic twist and turn the government up side down.
I can see why the common people of Turkey are against an attack on Iraq. I suspect an attack on any muslim country is viewed as an attack on their religion and the real reasons don't matter.
Mike

[BubbaGump]

... in response to Rambling points regarding Turkey and the..., posted by DanM on Mar 7, 2003

I don't remember you but you're obviously a smart guy.

[DanM]

... in response to Welcome back, posted by BubbaGump on Mar 8, 2003

Thanks for the compliment. I remember you, but you were a pretty new poster around the time I stopped posting here. If you can check 2001 arhives, you will see a lot of me there.

How goes the search?