Conservative gentlemen and a little more

[Horoshij]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: equal opportunities, posted by Robert D on Jan 3, 2003

n/t

[Horoshij]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: equal opportunities, posted by KenC on Jan 3, 2003

Ok KenC,

I agree, this is getting off topic and it's Friday night over here. Elena and I enjoy this evening very much and I've got some really fat halibut, and have made a delicious dish. Together with some good wine which I've already tasted, it will a wonderful evening, as always. My wife is waiting for me.

Have a nice weekend.

Haroshij

[Robert D]

... in response to Conservative gentlemen and a little more, posted by Horoshij on Jan 1, 2003

good post.  I enjoy hearing about other European countries and have wondered how they fair with high taxes and the like.  Just a few observations.   If you are an American in the 6 figure plus range, it is not difficult to meet women at all in America.  The problem is that most of them are looking at you as a source of retirement, and sometimes offer little in return.  I do believe our value system is a bit out of wack.    Some of us do long for a more simple time.   And you can find such people in smaller towns here, but if you are a relatively high powered job type person,it is hard to take a nice farm girl, (which I personally like) to dinner with a bunch of sharks, if you know what I mean.   Sad but true.   (I remember John Glen having to fight to keep is wife from sharks in his day in the early space program)
   One other observation.   It seems that many Scandinavian countries do what the US fails to do.  You do not have problems with more than a million illegals entering each year from your southern boarders.  You also do not have to deal with an ever increasing foreign policy budget, and foreign aid requests, request from the UN that seem to increase every year.  You have also had the luxury of having a rather well educated population for more than 100 years, not to mention a rather small population.   I do think we could learn a lot from you guy, however.  I have admired your standard of living for years and most importantly your low crime rate.  

Robert D.

[Horoshij]

... in response to Re: Conservative gentlemen and a little ..., posted by Robert D on Jan 2, 2003

Hi Robert,

I see you have some good points. The way I understand  you is that America has a shortage of attractive women, and those  who are really attractive know about it and use it for what it's worth. Did I get it right.

It's true we don't have the same problems with immigration even as I said in an earlier post, we have a big number of Russian immigrant comming. However, I think we mainly have this problem under controll.

Maybe one of the problems with the illegal immigrant in USA is that some people have economical interests in this situation. They can exploit the situation to get cheap labour.

America is rich nation, and should be able to pay their debts to the UN. Norway also gives a lot to foreign aid. The aim set be the UN is that every nation should give 1% of gross national product.

However, if you take a nice country girl from Russia. How can you protect her from the same sharks?

Haroshij

[Robert D]

... in response to Re: Re: Conservative gentlemen and a lit..., posted by Horoshij on Jan 3, 2003

Well in my view there are many beautiful women here in the US.  It seems that most of the guys on this board do not like their attitudes.  Frankly it seems that to get a beautiful woman after you leave college (because then it is very easy for anyone) a lot depends on your success in life and money you make.   The older you are as a man the more money it seems to take to attract and keep attractive women.  I think most of the folks on this board believe Russian women, or at least most are different.  I have no idea if they are correct in that assumption.  I do hope so.
   The immogrants that come over our southern boarders are often not well educated, and have no skills.   This is not their fault, and frankly I understand why the attempt to come here illegally for a better life.   From what I have experienced with Russian women when I visited St. Petersburg, they are well educated, and although there can be language barriers, I found them very able to handle their own in conversation and public gatherings.  The could handle their own with the sharks here or at least charm their pants off.

Robert D.

[Horoshij]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Conservative gentlemen and a..., posted by Robert D on Jan 3, 2003

Yes Robert,

it's also my opinion that many of the ladies you will meet through those agencies are highly educated women. Maybe it's like it was one hundred and more years ago. It was the people with most initiativ and imagination that saw the possibilities and had the courage to emmigrate from their homelands. Even if most of them were poor, they wanted to do something with it. I see the resemblance in this situation. These ladies have the courage to try to do something with their situation.

Russian ladies have learned the hard way. They know how it is to live in society without prosperity. They have managed, and many of them know how to protect themselves.

Maybe you're right, that they will know the how to distinguish between the good guys and the bad ones.

Haroshij

[Robert D]

... in response to Re: Conservative gentlemen and a little ..., posted by Robert D on Jan 2, 2003

One other note, before I forget, but you guys also do not have a history as we have with dealing with the American Indian, and also slavery.  Each has left a legacy in this country to date, that has seen each segment of that population flounder still.   In short I think we have more "have nots" in our society, and though we make great leaps to help each element of our population and I think we should be proud of the efforts of our country in the last 20 years, with all of the other drains on our economy, it is difficult I think for us to address many social ills that many of you guys have been able to better address.

Robert D.

[tfcrew]

... in response to Conservative gentlemen and a little more, posted by Horoshij on Jan 1, 2003

True. Its not the "USA" my Svetlana was led to believe it was. (I've known better)
Greed, selfishness, gross commercialization, fat stuck up ugly "cows" and efite snobs mentioned through-out the history of the board..all so apparent.
What is not widely known is that the original settlers of America aspired for a socialist society.
Hence the idiom .. the public domain.
The problem is/was the slobs who don't/didn't want to pull their share.
America is in trouble. Now, it's a dog-pile on the rabbit system that will eventually surrender to the new world order..Mr.666
I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
Karl

[R Danneskjold]

... in response to Conservative gentlemen and a little more, posted by Horoshij on Jan 1, 2003

Hello Horoshij

Even though I as a fellow Norwegian don’t agree with you about Norway being a slightly superior country compared with USA or even warmer by any stretch of imagination, I don’t think this is the right forum for discussing it.

But as a long time reader of the board I found your post a little off-track in the way it generalizes the men participating here and in particular about FSU women.

I don’t know what kind of woman you married but I find it somewhat insulting that you make this sweeping generalisation about most women from the FSU being poor and marrying abroad to improve their economic situation.

Neither my Ukraine wife nor I considered herself or her family in Ukraine to be poor in any way when we met, even though their daily life in many respects is less than desirable by our western standards.

It is my final opinion after years of debating this, that the main reason women from “poor” countries look abroad is because of a lack of marriage/family-oriented men at home. This is a side effect of their economic situation. When the outlook for supporting a family is less than desirable any level-headed man will think twice about marrying. And that is what most of these women are searching for; “a level-headed man”.

And I have to partly agree with WmGo about the economic situation in the FSU, it still hasn’t reached the bottom. But I don’t believe as he does, that it is totally hopeless. Although corruption and crime throws sand into the machinery of a free market mechanism it is not ideologically opposed to it or profits as long as it gets it share of it. The negative population growth however is a slowly unveiling tragedy that will keep its cold hand around mother Russia for decennials to come.

A piece of Norwegian wood for the New Year.

Jan

[micha1]

... in response to The main reason RW looks abroad?, posted by R Danneskjold on Jan 1, 2003

The main reason women look abroad.

It is in the woman's nature to look, to be on the lookout,
no matter where they are from.
In 2003 and for the past few years,  Internet has made it
easier to look the world over.  That's all.

Sure they are looking for love, for security, for everything,  because what they want is the whole ball game.
May it be here, over there and anywhere.
We are also, we men, looking for the whole ball game.  Why
should they be different than we are.

But they are different from us,  in the sense that they
never give up, while we do.

C'est la vie..............

[Horoshij]

... in response to The main reason RW looks abroad?, posted by R Danneskjold on Jan 1, 2003

Hei igjen,

Jeg fikk ikke sove og ....

Maybe I should comment a little about what you said:

"I find it somewhat insulting that you make this sweeping generalisation about most women from the FSU being poor and marrying abroad to improve their economic situation."

This part of my post was a reply to Dave where he claimed that poor people in America were poor because they chose to be poor. For me it was a dilemma that he looks down on poor people in America, but is searching for ladies in a country with a lot of poor ladies.

I know I stretch this arguement a little, but I still think there is some inconsistency in his arguements and also in yours when you say that those ladies are not poor, but at the same time underline how bad the economical situation is in Russia.

Horoshij

[Horoshij]

... in response to The main reason RW looks abroad?, posted by R Danneskjold on Jan 1, 2003

Hei Jan,

It's always difficult to make generalization. When we do it it is to try to see trends and trying to make the world a little easier to understand.

I still think we in Norway with our heritage from the social-democratic upbringing in higher degree than in the USA find solution for our problems based common values. I still think they in America are having a more individualistic approach. Think about our tradition about "dugnad" (voluntarily work in benefit for the society). Remember what our earlier prime minister, Gro, said about the importance of the neighbour woman who cared.

In some situation the individualistic attitude can be a force, take into consideration the power and dynamics of the American society. However ladies from the former FSU have an upbringing closer to the Scandinavian model and therefore I think it's easier for them to adapt to Scandinvian countries and even European countries than America. We still have strong ties to each other, especially in the countryside.

I agree with you that finding security and a good husband is important for ladies from the FSU, but I'm still convinced that the perspective of finding a higher standard  of living is just as important. I cannot see that it is something wrong in that. Don't we all try to make our lives so good as possible, and if you can combine those things, nothing can be better than that.

I'm not trying to make Norway a better country than for example the USA, but I'm drawing the attention to some differences that can cause problems for new imported brides.

Then about the economical situation in Russia. This year was the first after Soviet Union with a surplus in the national account. After having paid off debt they still had that surplus. Russian industry is going very well and they have now the highest growth in Europe. I'm aware of all the problems. I'm, however, convinced that according to Russian mentality they will solve their problems when they need to do it.

Haroshij

[yoe]

... in response to Conservative gentlemen and a little more, posted by Horoshij on Jan 1, 2003

men go over to find an old fashion woman and they have conservative attitudes. They find these women are not so conservative and were born out of the most liberal political system on the planet. Go figure!
Joe

[Horoshij]

... in response to that is the irony..., posted by yoe on Jan 1, 2003

Maybe I misunderstand you. The Communist system may look very radical and was in some ways, but in other ways it was very conservative. That's why you can find so many ladies in Russia with traditional values that is appreciated by conservative men from liberal USA.

Haroshij

[yoe]

... in response to Re: that is the irony..., posted by Horoshij on Jan 1, 2003

at some time these ideas merge on many levels. Life is spherical not linear. Communism was based on a philosophical not theological premise. Communism gave equal status to the work of men and women-they had different positions but they were revered the same-not so in more traditional conservative environments. Lastly Communism was based on a leave no child behind and all peoples must rise together format. That is why there is such a high literacy rate in many FSU regions. In the conservative agenda it is might makes right and those with, rule those without. This is why Conservatives wants less government-the corporations rule. In communism the liberation of the people is rule-in theory. They at least worked for the common whole not for the conglomerate elite. Again this is theory.
This is why I approve of more government (democratic)-at least we have the illusion to vote in office those who are making all the bad decisions.
I feel we do need strong labor parties here-governed of course. Once George citizenizes the millions of Mexicans, you may see labor movements that make the AFL-CIO nervous...
Joe
"Communism is the doctrine of the conditions of the liberation of the proletariat"