it happened last week............

[micha1]

Hello,  on the french nightly news.
A restaurant owner, from outside Paris, had met last summer, a real
darling girl, while visiting Kiev.  They did have a couple of weeks
of real fun together.  They did keep in touch, after he came back
home.  And agree to meet again, this time in Moscow, where the girl
was studying.  So he flew over of the 11th and she met him at the airport,  they took a taxi to town.  On the way, the taxi stopped and
three guys got in,  the kidnapped the guy,  took him to a house, some
50 kilometers outside of Moscow, where they asked for one million euros for his release.  Because they had to use the poor guy cell
phone (international) to have the money transfer or whatever,  they
were located.  The cops arrested everybody, the girl and her four
partners in crime. At the end of the story, they showed the guy coming
out of the DA's office,  where he was told that these people would not
be bothering anyone for a LONG time.
The girl was a really beautiful little darling, he said that he was going over to buy  her an appartment and a car, to put money in the
bank in her name, so that she would have it easy, while studying, he
said that he only wanted to take care of her.  
That whole thing happened during a span of six days,  from the 11th
to 18th.  The guy is forty, while she is in her early twenties.
They showed him at the airport, before taking the plane to Paris,
he was smiling and ready to go again.

[Jack]

... in response to it happened last week............, posted by micha1 on Dec 20, 2002

Wow, Michael. Did this just happen in the past few days? You say last week but the 18th was two days ago?

This is the second report I have heard about something like this happening in Moscow. Earlier this year (I believe) there was this one man who had been corresponding with this pretty young woman in Moscow for some 2 to 3 months and he decided to go to Moscow to meet her. She told him she would meet him in a certain park at a certain time. Well, she did and she had two or three guys hiding behind some bushes waiting to meet this guy also. They mugged him, robbed him, took billfold, all his money, passport and roughed him up a bit. The guy reported to police and after a few days was able to get enough documention together so he was allowed to leave the country. The guy must have spend a total of two or three hours in Moscow before getting mugged then the rest of the time at the police station and American Embassy getting a temp passport.

In Moscow I preferred to meet ladies for the first time either in front of St. Basils Cathedral, the TGIF located between Red Square and Tverskaya Street or at my hotel, if I was staying at one. (most "ladies" would not meet a man at his flat for the first meeting, but scammers and s1uts will). I think in Moscow and St. Pete guys meeting ladies for the first time need to take charge as to where and when to meet and this first meeting being in a very public place.

When meeting ladies for the first time I don't think it is the best of idea in having the lady meet you at the airport, have someone else greet you, take you to your flat or hotel. Three reasons for this. One of course is safety reasons as Michael's story shows what could happen. Second reason you only get one chance to make a good first impression and usully after some 16-18 hours of traveling one needs a change of clothes, to shower and shave. And third, if you are meeting more than one lady, which you should, most ladies will want to meet you at the airport. You can't have two, three ladies meeting you at the airport! So you tell each that you do not want her to see you after such a long trip before you have had time to freshen up, in other words you tell each you want to change clothes, shower, before meeting for the first time. This always worked for me. And when seeing several ladies in any one city I found it was always best to never let the ladies know exactly what time (or day) you arrived.
"Tatiana, I will be there between the 8th and the 12th and will call you when I get to Moscow." But John she says, why you not know exactly what day you will arrive? "It depends on when I finish this one project I am working on in the states". Of course this is what you tell the lady, or ladies you see after the first and/or second, third day's. The lady who you planned on seeing the first day would generally know what day, although not what time, you arrived.

[Jeff]

... in response to (*/*), posted by Jack on Dec 20, 2002

Geee Jack, how is a man expected to find an honest wife if he lies in his pursuit to find her?

[Jack]

... in response to Lies, posted by Jeff on Dec 20, 2002

Oh, great, getting into that again. Let's define lies,.. ok Jeff?

Jeff, if when you were 16, or 17 years of age and this 16 year old girl, Marina, has a crush on you, and she says to you "Jeff, do you think I am pretty?" and you really think she is a dog, do you say "Marina, I think you are not really very attractive", or do you say "Marina, I think you is one ugly dog!" or do you say "Marina, I think you are a pretty girl".

What do you say Jeff? Well I can tell you what you will say, "Marina, I think you are a pretty girl". You LIED Jeff!!! You out and out told this Marina a lie, this is not what you really thought, you lied and why? Because you didn't want to hurt her feelings!

When, after corresponding with a Russian lady named Elena for four months, she ask's you, "Jeff, maybe you visit other ladies when you come to see me?" What do you say?? Well, I'm not about to be so bold as to know what you will say in this case, I am quite sure you are going to tell Marina you think she was a pretty woman, I don't know what your going to tell Elena. But what I would say to Elena's question is, "Yes Elena, I am corresponding with another woman".

I am, Steve is, Joe is, John and George, Bob, Al, were all seeing three or four maybe even up to 6 or 7 women! Are we going to tell Elena we are going to see four other women if she ask's?  If you do, you won't see Elena. Not unless she is with some agency where the women know each guy they see is seeing many ladies while in town (such as LTP). So if your Elena is not with this type of agency, are you going to tell her Jeff you are seeing four other women if she ask's you?

Now Jeff, you probably are the type to see only one woman per trip, two tops, but let's just say you were really going to see five women on this one 9 or 10 day trip. If Elena, who you have been corresponding with for four months ask's you three weeks before you meet, "Jeff, maybe you see other woman when you see me?", What are YOU going to say? If you say "Yes, I am seeing four other ladies", Elena is history. If you tell her you are seeing three other ladies, she is history. If you tell her you are seeing two other ladies, with 65% you are history, if you tell her you are  corresponding with one other lady, there is about 93.87% chance she will see you.  

Jeff, you will say what you want. I will say to Elena, " Elena, I do correspond with another woman". Is it a lie, NO, I do correspond with another woman, but I do not say that I correspond with four other women!  And why? One reason because I want to meet her and the second reason, I don't want to hurt her feelings, just as I don't tell Marina she is one ugly girl.

It's the same with the ladies wanting to see you at the airport, if you tell all 6 ladies what time you arrive you will have a couple of ladies showing up to see you. Not a good situation, belieevvvve me! What do I tell these ladies who want to see me at the airport, "Please, I want to look my best when I see you, I do not want you to see me at the airport, I will not look so good with no sleep for one day".  Is it a lie, NO!  Is the real reason because maybe you would feel safer meeting her in a public place in town (security reasons)or maybe because two, three other ladies would like to meet you upon your arrival, who you going to choose, what you going to say to those who cannot meet you? "I am sorry Elena, Oksana is going to meet me at airport"! I don't think so.

Each guy will say what he wants. I preferred to tell each lady I would arrive between the 12th and the 16th (as an example) and as I got to within a few days of the trip I could easily tell this lady I could meet her at 11am on Tuesday the 13th, and this one at 2pm on Tuesday the 13th, and this lady at 5pm, ohh you can't make it then, ok, how about 12 noon on the 14th, etc. To do this right is an art Jeff.

I never wanted to lie to any of these women. I never wanted to tell any of them they were ugly if they asked and I thought they were. Is a lie a lie when it is told to not hurt someone's feelings? That's for you to decide Jeff. What is a lie, how to describe a lie will vary between individuals.

[Jeff]

... in response to what are lies?, posted by Jack on Dec 20, 2002

Jack,
I understand you somewhat, but lets take a look at the difference between telling someone they are pretty when they aren't, and lying to your potential wife about who else you are seeing.  When you tell someone they are pretty when they aren't, you are trying not to hurt their feelings.  It wouldn't be nice to tell someone they are pretty when they aren't just to get them to bed.  You aren't trying to protect their feelings anymore, you are manipulating the truth to benefit your agenda.  The same way with the type of lie you are suggesting men do.  The really bad thing about it, is your doing this very hurtful thing to someone you may try and marry in the future.  And on top of that, if you catch this girl lying to you, you'll drop her without even an explanation.  I will never agree with your idea that it is a good thing to go over and meet several women.  Two may be acceptable, but more than that and I think it crosses the decency line.

[Jack]

... in response to Different kinds of lies, posted by Jeff on Dec 20, 2002

Jeff, we will have a differnce of opinion with regards to decency.

When I met my future to be wife, I KNEW there was potential chemistry. The two ladies I met prior to my meeting with Natalia on this trip were nice, beautiful ladies, but not that special chemistry needed to have for your future wife.

Because I knew there was potential chemistry there I asked her if I could see her the day AFTER tomorrow. Why day after tomorrow? Because I still had to see another lady that day and a few the next day. I had the "decency" to still meet these ladies even though I thought I had found someone I would rather spend my time with. After meeting the other 5 ladies I had planned to meet up to that point, none other had the potential chemistry needed. I was now free to spend the next several days with Natalia,....until Oksana from Chernvosti came in. Natalia knew I had to meet Oksana, there were NO lies, Natalia KNEW I was meeting other ladies. Because Oksana came in from such a long distance I had to spend two days with her, even if I did not have the special feelings for this lady I would not tell her good-by after a few hours or even 1 day. I had the "Decency" to folow thru with my committment to her. I made sure Oksana had a good trip, even bought her a few gifts, knowing in my heart she was not going to be my wife. That was a lie I suppose also Jeff in spending two days with this lady I knew was not going to be my wife, right? That was probably also un-decent to you, right?

As I waved good-bye to Oksana from the Odessa airport, with-in a minute I was waving hello to Natalia as she was going to Kiev with me. I had to meet Olysia from Kazahkstan as she was flying into Kiev to meet me. I had the "decency" to meet this woman as I had committed too. Natalia KNEW I was meeting other ladies because I told her I was having to see another woman. I did NOT tell her how many but as there was as there was "another" woman in Odessa, and "another" woman in Kiev, I think she realized "another" meant more than one! She was not thrilled about me seeing the other ladies but she respected my committment (and decency) to these ladies. And if Natalia had of told me that I could not see these other ladies I had committed to see, then Natalia and I would not have married more than likely.

So Jeff, I told each and every lady I was seeing that I was seeing, or communicating with, another lady. I never said how many, only another. YOU can call it a lie, I will not. I showed the ulmost respect (and decency) to the good Russian ladies I met, and on the other hand with the scammers I met, I played with. It was a little pay-back in  my mind, I had paid my dues and being able to tell a scammer from a sincere woman made the last few years of my great pursuit even more fun and efficent.

But I will tell you one thing Jeff, I would not change any thing with how I did things during the last 2.5 years of my pursuit. Sure, I would have changed a lot about the first 2 years, it was quite an expensive education which left me heart broken more than a few times.

One of the greatest feelings I have today is KNOWING that I found a really wonderful woman. Having the balls to meet more than one woman, and being decent about it, being able to truly know and compare a great many of Russian women leaves NO doubt in my mind that I choose a truely wonderful Russian bride. Meeting only one woman, and you are correct, you don't have to cover your tracks as well. And when your Russian lady ask you if you see other woman when you come to see her, you can say, "NO, I only come to see you", and I, and maybe others, can only say, "I am communicating with another woman".

I realize there are guys like you who only wrote one woman, met one woman and married that one woman. You don't have to tell the one and only Russian woman you met that you are corresponding with "another" Russian woman. The men who write one, see one and marry that one Russian woman have a much simplier time and it is not nearly so complicated as to tell the ladies why they cannot meet you at the airport. If there is only one, then there is only one.

But I feel in my heart that those guys who wrote one, meet one and married the only Russian woman they ever meet will always wonder deep down, many won't admit it (although a few have to me) that they wonder what it would have been like to compare there one and only Russian woman with at least a second Russian woman. I mean HOW does a guy really know that the one and only Russian woman he ever met and married was truely the best one for him IF he never meet a second Russian woman? Who does he have to compare her to? I know this will eat at some men for many years, others not so.

I am happy for each and every one of those guys who were fortuante to have wrote one, meet one and married one. Unfortaunatly, a great many of these type marriages do not last so long. On the other hand, of all the guys I know who meet several, took there time, there is a much higher percentage of these marriage that last's.

Jeff, for someone like you who only meet one Russian woman and married her, I can see your point as to having to tell a Russian lady who ask's if you are seeing other woman when you come to meet her that say the word "another" woman when in reality it is several could be construed as a lie. For the guys who meet several Russian ladies before making his choice to tell any Russian lady who ask'e that you are seeing "another " Russian woman when it is several Russian women, he will probably not consider it a lie.

So as I said Jeff, to each his own, what you consider decent, and what I consider decent are surely two different things. What you consider a lie, and what I consider a lie, are two different things. Just as telling the ugly girl who ask's you if she is pretty and you say yes. That is also a lie, but you can justify it in your mind anyway you like.

[LP]

... in response to Different kinds of lies, posted by Jeff on Dec 20, 2002