Nothing More too Say .....

[MArkUSA]

Hmmmm....

I am puzzled at the responses I am getting and So forth I will move on! I really dont need all the negativity that i have recieved ..

You know #1 she 18 in a few weeks..(for all that keep repeating she is 17) (maybe you should relook at the Asian Sweety Site and see people that are 60 yrs old and have a 20 something girl..)
when I was there those couple weeks I was amazed at all the Old men I seen with 20somethings again..
So you speak to me about so many things Please!!!
I believe Tina know exactly what is transpiring here and I know for a fact that Aunt Fr has sat down and posed many of the same questions to her just the other day ..
For I asked Aunt Fr to Please go over some of your concerns that where brought up to me.. In this forum...
I try to cover all my bases..

And Know I had no doubts of Tinas true desire to be with me ..
Then when i talk to Aunt she tells me Tina said that all that matters is that I love Mark and he love me , know one has ever shown such caring for not only me but all he touchs .. This is Why? I love him so .. He is a man with a very warm heart..

Know this is what was  told to me that she said ..
So you know I just dont need all the drag you guys have stuffed in my back pocket ..
So I will move on ..
And thanx to the few that didnt JUGDE ME before they saw all the determining factors involved in this particular scenario..

And Just wish Tina And I happiness in all we do..

MArkUSa

[Ray]

... in response to Nothing More too Say ....., posted by MArkUSA on Mar 11, 2002

Hi Mark,

I think you have surely been here long enough to know that you would probably get some comments about your situation, right? For the most part, everyone has wished you and your fiancée well in your upcoming marriage. Nobody told you not to marry her, nobody called you a pervert who is looking for a sex-slave, nobody reported you to Senator Legarda, Humabdos didn’t tell you to “Dump Her”, etc… I think most everyone here has been pretty civil with their comments and their intention was not to attack you, but only to share their experiences and wisdom. Their advice to you was not meant only for you specifically, but also to any one of the hundreds of thousands of other readers out there who might be contemplating getting into this “game”. That’s what this place is really all about.

Again, this is a Forum where people come to share their experiences, express their opinions, and help each other, hopefully in a respectful manner. The advice is free and we can ignore it if we wish. Sometimes it helps to have a thick skin if you are going to participate here, as I’m sure you are well aware of, but it is not reasonable to expect that nobody will ever disagree with you or always tell you only what you want to hear. I think you have gotten some valuable information and real help since you have been here and it didn’t cost you anything, did it?

I was really looking forward to hearing the rest of your story, but if you are going to be that sensitive to any comments that you don’t want to hear, then perhaps it’s best that you not post it on this forum at this time. I respect your right to privacy if you don’t want to post personal information, but I would also hope that you will continue to participate here in any way you can.

Wishing you and your future bride lifelong happiness,

Ray

[Bear]

... in response to Nothing More too Say ....., posted by MArkUSA on Mar 11, 2002

I really wish you well but it sure seems like you have a death wish.  I usually say what I mean and I get a lot of grief for it - I suspect well deserved in some cases, but I really do mean well just as I know Howard does.  The whole point of coming to a "Planet-Love" bullitin board is to learn from those who have experienced what you want to experience without hitting the same walls and relearning what it would have been easier to just ask someone about.  We all know and we all have learned a lot here.

My wife is 26 years younger than me and it is a concern as it would be for any honest and fair person.  Age differences are extreme because of radical differences in experiences and expectations.  Then you have to add in the radical differences in cultures and then the normal "man-woman" conflicts.  No one is saying it won't work, it means you have to be one smart dude in being prepared for the "expected" unexpected events.  AM's get our asses kicked by AW's so easily and you seem to be placing yourself right in the middle of several well known killer traps and these traps will hurt much worse than getting your ass kicked by an AW because she'll have the same resourses AW's have as well as her own.  Several guys here are trying to share their experiences with you of how they got their asses kicked so you don't re-invent the boot does the kickin'.

You have so much to ask and learn before you can make this work.  You had better ask every hard question you never wanted to know and know which way that girls hair curls when she's in a mood and every mood she'll ever have.  You had better know her religion, her family, and every expectation she has and how she'll react to all the same for you.  But most of all you had better know that there is something there to bind you together when neither one of you will give and that happens more than any of us want to admit.  I can promise you she'll have loyalties to her family and culture you will never overcome and always be second too - and you need to be prepared to know when and what so you don't blow it when those things occur.  And still not get wasted.

Be wary because your whole situatiuon is different to say the least so saying "Its going to be difficult" doesn't come close to explaning it.

I really do wish you well and Honey and I will pray for ya.

Bear

[Terry C]

... in response to Ya know Mark, posted by Bear on Mar 11, 2002

I seldom post here although I read this list daily, but Bear, I have to agree with you. There is 27 years between my wife and I. When I decided to propose to her, I had many sleepless nights wondering if I was doing the right/smart thing. Fortunately, after 3 years of marriage things couldn't be better. However, dependng on the mindset of the people in the area you live, the age (and race) issue will be thrown in your face on a regular basis. In the area I live, I eventually lost most of my "friends" due to that. No great loss, as I put my wife before everything else. Also, the first year or so she was here with me she we had some problems mostly related to her age.....there's no doubt of the generation gap. I've bent a lot, she's bent and matured a lot.....and most of all we've talked and discussed every problem till it was solved. Also, I heard one couple some years ago attribute their 60+ year marriage to never going to bed at night mad at each other. We've tried to abide by that. The age issue can be overcome if there is real, true love, but it will take some hard work. The rewards are great.

[DanAndChed]

... in response to Nothing More too Say ....., posted by MArkUSA on Mar 11, 2002

Mark,

All I can say is your the best one to know whether it's a good relationship that will last.  Nobody else will really have a clue.  

The only thing I can tell you about predicting whether a relationship will last is that you can't.  Even all the psych research can't point to good predictors for a long relationship.  The latest study I've heard is that couples who live together first are more likely to get divorced.  When I was growing up it was believed best that you need to live with someone first for several years before you got married.  Well I've met people who new each other for two days before getting married and lived happily ever after.  I've also met people who new each other for five years before marriage and got divorce six months latter.  Only you have a good chance of predicting success.

As for me.  Mares is 22 and half my age.  We wrote for about four months before I went to visit.  I had my concerns about the age difference and not having really dated, but I think it's been to our advantage.  Two years married, and we're still dating.  Things are always new and fresh.  I believe things couldn't be better.

Always follow your heart.

Dan and Mares

[The Mog returns]

... in response to Nothing More too Say ....., posted by MArkUSA on Mar 11, 2002

Hey Mark, im happy for you. I always take with a grain of salt all the input I get, but Im 43 and Ive dated younger (way younger) girls all my life. Guess cuz I have kinda young looking face . I guess my cut-off now is 22 or 23. But seriously, I think that there really are big changes a girl goes through from 18 to the early twenties. Hope she sticks with you through thick and thin. My best . Mog

[SJ]

... in response to Nothing More too Say ....., posted by MArkUSA on Mar 11, 2002

Hey Mark,
   You got more to say than some others. When someone points a finger, three point back at them. One guy condemns you, while he's rebounding from one failed marraige to another relationship. Don't we all KNOW what's going to happen? Another guy sent $1000s in gifts, $1000s in money to her, her family and her friends, at HER constant requests. She lied about and stalled the Visa process, then when she skips out a few short weeks after arriving here, he pleads ignorance. Yet he's a judge of maturity? Your a can short because another guy knows sh@# kickin' cowboys that marry teenagers and only age failed their relationship? If CFO required fiances or wives to read this kind of crapola, there won't be much of a line at ST. Lukes
   With this kind of crapola thrown it's understandable why you'd disapear, it's why many never post here. I'd say good luck, but luck won't be needed, your committment, faith and devotion will be all you'll need. The luck should be saved for others that maybe someday they'll experience what you've found. I know what you have is possible, I have it to. SJ

[Howard]

... in response to Re: Nothing More too Say .....Wrong!, posted by SJ on Mar 11, 2002

SJ,

I can only assume I am the the guy "rebounding from one failed marriage to another realtionship" that you KNOW the outcome of.  Did you read my post?  Do you understand English?  Can you really function in daily life being this ignorant?

I offered Mark my congratulations and shared some thoughts.  If he doesn't want to hear them, he shouldn't post in a public opinion based forum.

What kind of hypocrite are you?  You BLAST me for "Condemn"-ing Mark, when I did anything but, and then are pompous enough to comdemn me?  Take your own advice, "When someone points a finger, three point back at them"

Yes, many of us have made mistakes and none of us claims to be as enlightened as you.  Most of us don't post here for sympathy, but to try and share our expiriences in the hope of helping others.  We CERTAINLY do NOT post our failures here to be mocked by a self righteous hypocrite like you.  

I have never passed judgement on ANYONE here and am offended that you could be so insensitive to those of us who have the balls to post the potential negatives, instead of being naive enough to blind ourselves to reality.  I never claimed to know everything.  I only speak from my expirience.  What qualifies you as an expert on this subject, or more appropriately on me?

I understand that limited intelligence and low self esteem must be a terrible cross for you to bear, but please spare us your self righteous accusations and fortune telling.  I have never been one of the "Filipina Bashers" here, I think I make that clear everytime someone starts bashing an entire race because of their own misfortune with one girl out of millions.  

Mistakes?  I made 'em and I will probably make more.  But if "committment, faith and devotion" were all I needed, I would still be married.  I had that in abundance.

Blame?  I have never blamed anyone BUT myself for my marital troubles.  I take more heat here for that than if I would just blame everything on my wife and her parents.

Dude, I don't even care what you think of me, or anyone here for that matter.  But to demonize me for giving heart-felt advice and then to do EXACTLY what you short-sightedly accuse me of doing just pisses me off!

Mark, if you're reading this, NOTHING here is aimed at you!

H

[SJ]

... in response to Now I'm PISSED!, posted by Howard on Mar 11, 2002

For one sentence that you assume was meant for you, you sure set me straight!!!I read your post. Sure, you congratulated him and then...
  "Trust me, I thought I had all the answers once myself. I did not, but hey... maybe that's just me :c)"

"but do NOT disregard the age gap you will face. There is no way to prepare for it, it happens when you least expect it and it can be EVIL!"....Sounds from Mark that it has been a very up front issue with him, not at all ignored. Sounds like YOU already know the outcome.....

"There were so many things I let slide, because I was so into having a young attractive wife, just be smarter than me that's all I ask :c)".....Sounds like his reasons are a little different then yours. Yet you have balls to also write.          
   "So I can take small amounts of comfort in the fact that it wasn't me that directly hurt her so badly, Was it worth it? For me, sure." Now I'll ask  "What kind of hypocrite are YOU?"
"Blame? I have never blamed anyone BUT myself for my marital troubles"   I'm struggling thru life ignorantly, so Huh? I thought you put all the blame on her parents and a little on yourself for not seeing it and a little on her for being so convincing in faking a relationship.
  "But if "committment, faith and devotion" were all I needed, I would still be married"   I think you've written about 37 different posts that would dispute that claim. These might even been some of the things you "let slide" while hunting for that "young attreactive wife.
 "offended that you could be so insensitive to those of us who have the balls to post the potential negatives, instead of being naive enough to blind ourselves to reality" Posting a positive will usually get "potential negatives" here.    
    Demonize you ?, Give me a break. Actually, Congratulations for finding someone so quickly that accepts you and understands you. I won't even follow up with, but.....As for "being naive enough to blind ourselves to reality" I'd be guilty of that be believing everything I read here  without knowing the other side of the story.

[Howard]

... in response to Re: Now I'm PISSED!, posted by SJ on Mar 11, 2002

...We can play the "Let's take this out of context" game forever.  It won't get us anywhere.

The fact of the matter is that I was just trying to do what I thought was right by Mark.  If I was a bit too sarcastic--aimed at myself, NOT him--and that made my post seem other than sincere, then I will think twice next time.

I do owe you an apology though, I should not have resorted to name calling or insulted your intelligence.  It's a bad day, I should have counted to ten before I pushed the "Post as is" button... I realize that's no excuse though.  For that I do apologize.

As for my 37 posts to the contrary, whatever...  Facts are facts, her parents did their share, but even if it doesn't come across that way, and I can't see how it can't, I still blame myself for my failed marriage.  The only thing I hold my wife responsible for is never making an honest effort, but I even understand where she is coming from.  She never wanted it, so she never valued it.

I guess I just don't understand how you can read my post and think I was dogging Mark--but I guess it's possible because he obviously felt the same, to a degree--let alone, think I was condemning him.

Maybe I over reacted, but your smug comments really infuriated me.  I feel you were out of line, but then so were some of the other posters on this issue. At least in the way they chose to present their case.

I never claimed to know everything, but what I do know I am willing to share with the group.  I'm no hypocrite, dude.  I'm just trying to get on with my life, like my wife is with hers.  If that somehow offends you, I really don't know what to say.

I am serious in my apology for the name calling on my part, I was out of line with that.

H

[SJ]

... in response to Ya know..., posted by Howard on Mar 11, 2002

I too, could have responded to Mark differently. My "smug" comment was a sarcastic response, my apologies. It seemed to me that some were "knowing" (assuming) what would befall Mark solely due to age. So it's just as likely that some are "knowing" (assuming)what befalls those that go from a failed relationship to finding that special someone so quickly.
    Your right, I took some of Marks responses the way he did and he's gone.
   I took to heart much of your situation as it unfolded, especially in the earlier stages. I also heeded much of what Shadow had to say. But more importantly for me, I searched out the successful, happy Fil/Am relationships (I found many) and learned what makes them work. I think it's the latter knowledge that has contributed the most for my wife and I.
    Earlier tonight I promisd my wife I would not "waste life" and come here anymore, so, I hope you find the true happiness your looking for, God knows you've earned it. No apology necessary, you said your piece as I did mine. This is no place for the easily offended. But I gotta agree with my wife, Good-bye

[Howard]

... in response to Re: Ya know..., posted by SJ on Mar 11, 2002

SJ,

Fair enough!  Thank you for being reasonable.

Hate to see ya go, but I understand.

I too wish you the peace and happiness you deserve :c)

I hope you reconsider

Keep the Faith

H

[Dave H]

... in response to Ya know..., posted by Howard on Mar 11, 2002

Hi Howard,

I know that you and the rest of us want Mark to succeed and not make the same mistakes we ourselves or others we know have made. When you like someone, it's hard to just sit back and watch things progress in a manner that we believe to have low odds for success. Hopefully, everything will work out for him. I too have some concerns, but didn't have time to post them last night, so was left out of the brawl which has turned into a pissin' match. ;o)) I won't get into them as they have already been mentioned. The only thing I will say (as you know) is that I married a very mature 18 year-old Latina (very similar to Filipinas) some years back. Her only dream was to be a housewife and mother. She was raised to be just that. She left me and abandoned our sons the final time 7 years ago. I have raised my boys alone since they were 5 and 9 without any help or support from her. Her reasons for leaving; "I was just a kid and didn't really know what I wanted. I got married too young and never got to experience life or do anything. I was just doing what my mother taught me."

I also wish nothing but the best for Mark and Justina! I have enjoyed reading Mark's trip report and hope he continues writing. I am happy for him! He has made it clear that he no longer wants negative concerns posted about his relationship, so I will respect that and withhold them. However, what I wouldn't mind seeing again is a list of possible "Red Flags" that we have found, for those starting out, that might be interested. Whoever said that you don't really know someone until you live with them should receive the Nobel Prize. Anyone that can live or spend extended periods of time with their fiancee in the Philippines or US, should do it. I never fail to learn something new about the country, culture, my wife, or her family and friends every day. Fortunately, I got lucky this time!

Dave H.

[Tim]

... in response to I know..., posted by Dave H on Mar 11, 2002

I totally agree with your second sentence. I've had to take it to heart recently (yes, I'm being lured back to PL more, so it seems....).

I also fully support your statement about living with your fiancee for an extended period (either platonically or otherwise) prior to immigration. In the month I spent living with Wendy in Hong Kong, I learned more about her than I had in the prior 22 months of our relationship. I would have loved to stay and mooch off her longer but I had to get home to find a job ! Anyway, there is simply no substitute for doing this. I just wish it was logistically (and morally) possible for every person to do this -- I think we'd have a lot more success stories.

Regards, Tim

[Dave H]

... in response to Wise Advice, posted by Tim on Mar 11, 2002

Hi Tim,

Of course in my case...my wife would have found out what a slob I am. Too late now! ;o))

Dave H.