Changing times in PI

[Hoda]

Hey folks,

I need some info from y'all in regards to Abu Sayyaf in the P.I. I just saw a bootleg copy of a PI news program, in which members of the Abu Sayyaf group, BE-HEADED captured police/hosteges! Could someone give me the who, what, where, why & how about this group. I have heard of a few bombings in cities in the PI, that I'm unfamilar with. Are any of these cities near areas, where some of you visit your future/present lifemates & their families? Also, with the growing presence of the U.S. military, what's the feeling of the natives? I don't mean what the "media" reports, but what your families feel. Does anyone think, that with the current political/civil climate, more ladies might exercise their options to leave?

I'm not trying purposely trying to make a Colombia vs. PI comparison. It's just that on the Latin (ie:Colombian) side. There's no denying that political, social & economic turmoil, are contributing (but not all) factors in ladies wanting to leave Colombia. Is it possible, that the same might happen in the P.I.? In Colombia, it isn't a Civil war, for the hearts & minds of the civilians. It's a straight up POWER STRUGGLE, to see who will control the drugs. What's the deal in the P.I.? America has been pumping mucho money, arms & soldiers in Colombia. Now, they're doing the same in P.I.

I've noticed over the short time, that since I've been involved in the quest to find & be found by love, how the P.I/Asian board has been relativiely untouched by the issues that have dogged the FSU & some Latin countries. Could it be, that the same issues will be more prominent in your future?

Here's hoping that Abu Sayyaf gets "Be-Headed" before anymore innocent victims suffer...

Hoda

[daduts]

... in response to Changing times in PI, posted by Hoda on Feb 20, 2002

the opinions of one american living in manila....

the bad news.....abu sayaaf are pirates and criminals of the worst kind.  they kidnap and kill...they were active in attacking several resorts and setting off bombs in manila in the spring of last year.  thier many kidnap victims included 3 americans, one of whom was beheaded. two others are still captive.  

the good news...they do not enjoy popular support.  people here see them as the criminals they are.

more good news....the philippine army has had them on the run for the last 8 months.  this has constrained their activities greatly.  they seem to be spending their time these days running and hiding and seem to be confined to the southern philippines.

bad news...there was a bombing in a marketplace in muntinlupa, a manila suburb, several weeks ago.  several were killed, many injured.  the bomber claimed to be abu sayaaf but may have been a nut case.

good news....the u.s. military has arrived to help the philipine forces try to annihilate the abu sayaaf.  this  is supported by the majority of the people.  one newspaper poll i saw said 84% were in support of the u.s. support here.  there is a vocal minority staging regular protest outside the u.s. embassy.  these strike me as mostly college kids doing what college kids do...find something to protest.

so...

i feel relatively safe in the philippines going about my normal activies in and around manila.

i took my fiancee and kid on a recent vacation to cebu with no qualms and no problems.

i stay out of the southern philippines.

i don't do anything to make myself look like a rich, potential kidnap jackpot.

re: does the political/civil climate affect the desire of the ladies to get out ?

i don't think the recent events have had a big impact on the total picture.  the economic realities of the philippines have always led many filipinos to search outside their country for a better life...either thru employement/relocation abroad or relationships with foreigners.  the recent situations may have caused some increase but i doubt that it is huge.

my two cents....daduts

[Jeff S]

... in response to Changing times in PI, posted by Hoda on Feb 20, 2002

There are huge differences between Colombia and the PI. I'm no expert, but in Colombia, the terrorist factions are heavily financed with drug money, and do things like setting off bombs in major metropolis areas. They also seem to control much of the countryside. In the PI, a land of 14000 islands, they're poor, restricted to a few dozen very rural islands, do not operate in major cities, along major transportation routes between cities, etc. This is not to say that the PI is perfectly safe, it's just that the terrorist factions can be far more easily avoided than in Colombia. In general, the cities, towns, and transportation system is generally safe for a tourist. I read on the Latin board everyone always warns "Don't go out in the countryside! Stay in the cities." In most of the PI, the bundocks (actually a Philippine word abberated in English to boondocks) or mountains and isolated beaches are available and safe for a traveler. Your pen pal's brothers, father, uncles, cousins, etc. will all know where to go and where not to.

-- Jeff S.

[Hoda]

... in response to No one said it yet, Hoda, but.., posted by Jeff S on Feb 21, 2002

There are huge differences between the two. I was just mentioning on what is the same. Primarily, US involvement with the internal security of another nation. I needed to get some views/info on the situation without relying solely on the media. The issues that tie the two countries together are, US cash, troops & arms. Oh, and the principal of protecting our friends & our own self interest. Thanks for the info.

Peace....Hoda

[Ray]

... in response to Changing times in PI, posted by Hoda on Feb 20, 2002

I saw this article in a Filipino newspaper recently and thought it was interesting and quite ammusing:

-----
this story was taken from www.inq7.net

URL: http://www.inq7.net/opi/2002/jan/28/text/opi_nhcruz-1-p.htm

Who is our enemy,
Americans or Sayyaf?
Posted:8:48 PM (Manila Time) | Jan. 27, 2002
By Neal H. Cruz

FROM THE FURY with which Filipinos oppose the arrival of American soldiers for the Balikatan war exercises here, you’d think the enemy is the United States and not the Abu Sayyaf bandits. And if you’re not careful, you’d think the whole Filipino nation is against the GIs. That was what I thought when television flashed on the screen images of Filipinos picketing the arrival of giant US cargo planes in Zamboanga until I looked closer at the signs they were carrying. They said: "Welcome Joe" and "We love you America" and other such expressions of endearment. The Zamboanguenos were actually welcoming the Americans!

Such ambivalence and split personality is even more evident when you listen to arguments on the subject between Filipinos living in Luzon and in Mindanao. I happened to overhear such an exchange during the weekend at a coffee shop in Quezon City.

"You people from Luzon are against US soldiers helping to flush out the Abu Sayyaf terrorists because you’re away from the fighting," said one. "You have never been victims of the Abu Sayyaf. You have no relative who has ever been kidnapped by these bandits."

"Don’t think that being kidnapped is the exclusive privilege of you Mindanaoans, Omar," replied the other. "We also have kidnappings and bank robberies here almost every day but did you hear us call the United States for help? We rely on our own police and military to look for the kidnappers to save the victims. They are usually the first at the scene of the crime."

"They arrive at the crime scene first because they’re the kidnappers and robbers themselves," replied Omar. "But they’ve been chasing the Abu Sayyaf bandits for a year now but haven’t even the shadow of them, Juan. And they’re running out of bullets, planes, soldiers and money. Isn’t it about time we ask the Americans for help?"

"That would be against our sovereignty and our Constitution," said Juan. "Do you want Americans shooting at Filipinos?"

"Would you rather have the Abu Sayyaf shooting at you?"

"Don’t you see the sinister design of the United States?" Juan said. "First, it is Basilan. Then it would be the whole Mindanao. Then it would be the whole Philippines. We would lose our sovereignty to America."

"I would rather lose our sovereignty to America than to terrorists, like what happened to Afghanistan. At the rate we’re losing the war to the Abu Sayyaf bandits, it won’t be long before they run the whole country."

"Omar, you would rather have the Americans occupy the Philippines than be independent?" cried Juan.

"All the places occupied by the Americans are the best developed places in the Philippines," replied Omar. "Look at Clark, look at Subic, look at General Santos. The best and biggest shipping ports and airports in the Philippines were built by the Americans. If the Americans occupy the whole of Mindanao, it would be better developed than the rest of the country."

"At the price of our pride?"

"Would you rather be proud but poor? Juan, Filipinos can’t even feed its own people. We ask the United States for rice and food aid all the time and we have no problem with our pride. We always ask for loans and financial grants and we don’t lose our pride. We accept medicine and used clothing during disasters with our pride intact. They offer to help rescue two of their countrymen kidnapped by the Abu Sayyaf and suddenly our pride becomes too big to accept that offer of help. Why?"

"You have not been listening to our senators and congressman, Omar. Listen to them," said Juan.

"I hear them loud and clear," replied Omar, "but their words are different from their actions. Our senators and congressmen go to the United States at the drop of a hat. They have houses and families there. The first thing that any Filipino president does is to go on a state visit to the United States and ask for help. Sino ba talaga ang kalaban natin, Juan? Ang Abu Sayyaf ba o ang Amerikano. Are we more afraid of the Americans than of the Abu Sayyaf terrorists?"

"Hindi naman takot, Omar. We have our Constitution, you know..."

"If the terrorists or the communists overrun our country, would we still have that Constitution?" interjected Omar.

"We have to respect and defend it while we have it."

"All I know is you people from Luzon are cowed by the leftist militants while we in Mindanao are afraid of the bandits, not the Americans. Think of it, Juan. If the Americans occupy Mindanao, we will have more General Santoses, Clarks and Subics here. The whole island will be developed. People, especially the women, will have jobs. America can even build a new Las Vegas here. Filipinos won’t have to go to Las Vegas anymore. Who cares if the peso-dollar exchange rate deteriorates? We will have plenty of dollars. We will have snow and white Christmases. We will grow apples, pears and grapes in Mindanao."

"Omar, Omar, wake up, you’re dreaming."

"I’m not dreaming, Juan. Look at Japan and Germany. They were defeated and occupied by the Americans during the war. That was the best thing that happened to them. Now they’re among the richest and best developed countries in the world. Look at the Philippines. We were freed by the Americans. Look at us now."
©2002 www.inq7.net all rights reserved

[Hoda]

... in response to Philippine Editorial, posted by Ray on Feb 21, 2002


Any idea of the percentage of pro vs. con, in regards to the US involvement in PI?

thanks again....Hoda

[redpalm]

... in response to Changing times in PI, posted by Hoda on Feb 20, 2002

I heard about the tape and on the front page of a national newspaper was a photo of a headless torso falling to the ground.  Whether or not it was the Abu Sayyaf or the MILF or MNLF who did it, it remains an inhuman and gruesome deed.
Most people in Baguio (a mountain city north of Manila) welcome the U.S. military presence.  Even the mayor of Zamboanga, a city in Mindanao, has been vocal in her welcome and support of US military presence there.  A sizeable number of Muslims have migrated to Baguio to escape the troubles down south.  I believe that US presence here will be a factor to maintaining stability and a detriment to unlawful and terrorist groups.  It was obvious that the military could not hunt down the Abu Sayyaf and now that we finally have help maybe things will get done more quickly.
Also, having grown up with the presence of a Military Base (till the bases were abandoned) here, I have observed the contribution to the local economy and the examples set by well disciplined military personnel - and this was an R & R base.  
I believe that more people would want to leave - I would.
My 2 pesos worth -

[redpalm]

... in response to Changing times in PI, posted by Hoda on Feb 20, 2002

I heard about the tape and on the front page of a national newspaper was a photo of a headless torso falling to the ground.  Whether or not it was the Abu Sayyaf or the MILF or MNLF who did it, it remains an inhuman and gruesome deed.
Most people in Baguio (a mountain city north of Manila) welcome the U.S. military presence.  Even the mayor of Zamboanga, a city in Mindanao, has been vocal in her welcome and support of US military presence there.  A sizeable number of Muslims have migrated to Baguio to escape the troubles down south.  I believe that US presence here will be a factor to maintaining stability and a detriment to unlawful and terrorist groups.  It was obvious that the military could not hunt down the Abu Sayyaf and now that we finally have help maybe things will get done more quickly.
Also, having grown up with the presence of a Military Base (till the bases were abandoned) here, I have observed the contribution to the local economy and the examples set by well disciplined military personnel - and this was an R & R base.  
I believe that more people would want to leave - I would.
My 2 pesos worth -

[omar]

... in response to Changing times in PI, posted by Hoda on Feb 20, 2002

It won't happen in the PI because its a Catholic country and the people love Americans.

[Hoda]

... in response to Re: Changing times in PI, posted by omar on Feb 20, 2002

Colombia is a Catholic country & the clear majority of civilians there, don't have any beef with Americans.... it's gonna take more than those two factors.

thanks anyway...

[Dave H]

... in response to Changing times in PI, posted by Hoda on Feb 20, 2002

Hi Hoda,

This was written by BBC News Online's Mangai Balasegaram about the Abu Sayyaf.

"They call themselves the "Sword of God" in Arabic, but the Abu Sayyaf rebel group in the Philippines could hardly be seen as holy.

Beheadings, kidnappings, hefty ransoms and weapons characterise this band of armed rebels based in the country's Muslim south.

Abu Sayyaf rebels are based in the Sulu islands

President Gloria Arroyo has described the group as "a money-crazed gang of criminals" without any ideology.

They have done little in real terms to advance their much-touted goal of an independent Muslim state, aside from bringing media attention to the area's long-running separatist conflict.

The group shot to international fame in April 2000 after kidnapping 21 people, including foreign tourists, from a Malaysian resort and taking them to a jungle hideout on Jolo island.

During months of lengthy and often fruitless negotiations, they also virtually held hostage the government of former President Joseph Estrada.

They were eventually released after mediation by a Libyan envoy and the reported payment of a hefty $20m ransom, which according to the military, eventually served to arm, as well as embolden, the rebels.

The episode provided lessons for President Arroyo, who has refused to negotiate with the group, despite making peace overtures to other insurgents.

She launched an all-out military offensive in response to the latest hostage crisis, in which tourists, including three Americans, were seized from a resort in Palawan island.

She has also placed a $2m bounty on the heads of the Abu Sayyaf.

Beheadings:

The rebels have frequently threatened to kill their hostages - which have included children in the past - if their demands are not met.

These are no idle threats - last year, the group beheaded two teachers taken hostage on Basilan island

During last year's high-profile hostage crisis, the rebels reportedly demanded about $1m for each Western hostage.

There were reports that Jolo island was flooded with crisp, new high-denomination bills after the hostages' release.

Some of the money reportedly went into buying bazookas, mortars and Uzi assault rifles from underground Asian arms bazaars, with some rebel leaders even posing with their new weapons for newspaper photographers.

The rebels now appear to have some superior equipment to the military - according to reports, the navy's patrol boats cannot keep up with the rebel speedboats.

Factional fighting:

At its peak last year, the Abu Sayyaf had about 4,000 members, with many locals drawn to the group's wealth.

But according to the military, that figure has since dwindled to 1,000 members, mostly based in the rebel heartland of Jolo.

Since September, they have come under repeated attacks by the military, which have killed hundreds of rebels.

A lack of unity may also pose a threat. Military officials have said the group has several factions, each with their own warlords, followers and territories in the Sulu islands, which have sometimes squabbled.

Commander Robot and Mujib Susukan lead one group.

But the group involved in the Palawan hostages is led by Abu Sabaya and Khadaffy Janjalani, whose Islamic preacher brother Abdurajak founded Abu Sayyaf in the early 1990s, naming it after a mujahedin fighter in Afghanistan.

Pope plot:

Once the "country's most wanted man", Abdurajak was killed during clashes in 1998.

He reportedly had ties to Libya, where he had studied, and links with international extremists, such as Saudi exile Osama bin Laden.

From the start, the group was involved in armed resistance, which is almost a way of life in the south, where some insurgent groups have warring for three decades for a Muslim state, independent of the predominantly Catholic country.

Kidnapping for ransom is also common in the country.

But the group turned more ominous after attacking a Christian southern town and burning the centre.

Abu Sayyaf was also implicated in a 1995 plot to assassinate visiting Pope John Paul II."

[Dave H]

... in response to What, where, and why..., posted by Dave H on Feb 20, 2002

Some of the bombings and other terrorists acts can be attributed to the communists as well. The Abu Sayyaf is most famous for its kidnappings. With the success of the Abu Sayyaf, there is fear that the communist might adopt some of their practices. Most of the problems with the Muslim terrorists has been concentrated in the more heavily Muslim populated Southwestern Philippines. With their rapidly increasing wealth, from ransom money and financial backing from bin Laddin and Libya, they have been able to travel greater distances to deploy their acts. Old and feared Christian vigilante groups such as Tadtad, Ilaga, Pulahan, and Sagrado Corazon de Jesus are once again arming themselves and calling for a Muslim-free Mindanao and Philippines.

From what I've read, most Filipinos are willing to swallow their pride and accept US aid, if it means ridding the Philippines of this plague. Even many Muslim Filipinos are tired of this groups actions (they also kill fellow Muslims, but don't behead them) and support their extermination. Probably the exception is the very vocal minority of left-wing liberals, communists and radical Muslims.

Dave H.

[Hoda]

... in response to Re: What, where, and why..., posted by Dave H on Feb 20, 2002

I wasn't aware of the Christian vigilante groups you mentioned. Any idea on the number of fighters in these groups, as compared to Abu Sayyaf? As you probably know, the anti-FARC group in Colombia (the AUC) is raising hell of it's own. Two conflicting groups, with the government in the middle? Dayyum, this scenario in the PI is looking all too familar. I hope the PI gov't, with a little help from it's friends. Can stomp out the problem before the Christian groups you mentioned, feel that they have to get involved....

thanks again...Hoda

[Minnesota guy]

... in response to Re: What, where, and why..., posted by Dave H on Feb 20, 2002

I feel sorry for the folks in RP that depend on the tourist trade to make a living. According to the people in southern Leyte they are having a hard time convincing foreigners that it's only one area of the Philippines that is having problems and from what I hear it's not really all that dangerous even in Mindanao. In S. Leyte we took some motorcycle rides into some remote areas north of Sogod that supposidly have some anti-government rebels occasionally fighting the Army. I was told (and chose to believe) that they are not anti-foreigner and have not been involved in any kidnappings. I can't begin to express how friendly everyone was everywhere we went. Overall I did feel much safer than I have in some areas of the U.S.
   My only conflict came last week while we were having a late evening meal at the coffee shop in the Cherry Blossom Hotel next to Robinson's Mall. A well dressed man started making a speech to others at his table criticizing the President for allowing the American military back into the country. I didn't say anything until he also complained about all the "white" guys coming to the RP to look for women. I explained how Carmen and I came to be involved with each other and then told him that in my opinion if the RP Army was up to challenging A.S. and not taking bribes then the U.S. would not be needed. He was mildly agreeable with this and later on I learned that he's a congressman from Mindanao and this small gathering was a fund-raiser. Politicians, they're all the same!!

[Hoda]

... in response to Re: Re: What, where, and why..., posted by Minnesota guy on Feb 20, 2002


the army taking bribes to close it's eyes. Corruption leads to less protection, which leads to growth of anti-govt forces. Let us not forget...Politicians talking trash!

thanks...Hoda