Trip Report - long

[Richard]

I just got back from a week in Kiev.  This was my third trip in a year and the second one to visit one lady - the same one both times.

This trip was one he!! of an emotional roller coaster ranging from the high of being met at the airport to the low of thinking that she was trying to scam me, and back up to wanting to believe she is really interested in me after we sat down and talked.  The people who have me her (interpreters, tour guide for the two of us) tend to believe she is sincere - no guarantees of course.

You're probably interested in the scam part. I last visited her in October of last year.  We spent two weeks together, including a week in Crimea.  She wouldn't let me buy her anything: she wanted to me new clothes.  (She is really into the latest fashions and my wardrobe certainly doesn't match that description.)

This trip she did want me to buy her things, including expensive jewelry and a flat screen tv. She made a point of telling me she has expensive tastes.  There were other things that bothered me also.  

Eventually, we did sat down and talked.  Now many things make sense to me.  We had a situation with two people who don't communicate well.  I tend to jump to conclusions and she doesn't volunteer things that she should.  For example, she never told me until yesterday that she works two jobs, because I didn't ask.  I thought that was covered under what do you do when we first met.

I want to believe that this woman is really interested in my but has unrealistic expectations of what I can afford.  I saw and heard many good and bad things during this past week.  My head is still spinning and I am not sure what to think.  

Just for the record, I have seen things from the beginning that made me realize that trying to build a relationship with this woman was very risky.  Jack has discussed his concerns with me and I had seen the same things he had.

To top things off, when I arrive in Miami, my luggage hadn't.  The woman who checked me in at Boryspil Airport this morning spoke better English than the person in Miami who took my lost baggage claim! Finally, my ride home wasn't there to meet me.

There is an old Chinese saying: "May you live in interesting times."  This past week has certainly been interesting!

Richard

[Richard]

... in response to Trip Report - long, posted by Richard on May 19, 2002

I do need to make one correction here.  My ride did show up.  I just frustrated from dealing with Northwest's incompetant baggage claim person who could not fill out the claim buy himself, that when my friend wasn't where I expected him, I took a cab home instead of looking arround further for him.

Btw, the people in Kiev who checked me in at the airport spoke better english than the person in America that took my lost baggage claim!  I flew into Miami!

The airline delivered my suitcase at 5:00 am.  If my dog hadn't started barking, I wouldn't have known he was there.

[Oatmeal]

... in response to Trip Report - long, posted by Richard on May 19, 2002

I always made a habit of telling any girls I was interested in, that I was not rich and that my life here in America was very mundane and that she might not be able to expect much more than she already had in Ukraine.  

Sure, I threw around some money while I was there but I made sure not to over do it too much so as not to give the wrong impression.  I also made sure to tell them that I had saved my money all year long just to make this one trip and that it was a big deal to me.  

In a sense every trip I have made over, was a big deal to me because I knew my stays were relatively short and I wanted to savor every minute I was there.

Perhaps you did open a bit of a pandora's box by being too loose with your money but I feel that someone asking for a flat screen tv is just too much, even if she did think you were loaded.  It just sounds like bad ediquette on her part.  Only you can be the ultimate judge of the situation but it sounds like her priorities are a bit out of order, at the least.

I always wanted to know that the lady wanted to be with me no matter what living circumstances would be.  This I think is the key to finding a lasting partner.  I think I made a pretty sound choice because she is still crazy about me and would rather spend time with me rather than enjoy some fancy dinner or shopping for some expensive jewelry.

I am not trying to rain on your parade but be sure that she really loves or at least cares alot about YOU before you consider bringing her over.  Otherwise, the pain and trouble you could end up with will probably be ten fold.

[Richard]

... in response to Re: Trip Report - long, posted by Oatmeal on May 21, 2002

I think you have the right idea by telling them you're poor.  I've been telling her that I'm middle class and she just doesn't seem to understand the concept. I geuss that middle class is just to foreign in a land where there is no middle class.

No, you're not raining on my parade.  My parade got rained on last week in Kiev.

[KenC]

... in response to Trip Report - long, posted by Richard on May 19, 2002

Richard,
I feel for you, Bud.  You are in no man's land as far as your heart is concerned.  Keep a level head and do what is right for you.  No matter how you hope things will be, only you KNOW how they are for real.
Getting to know a RW is a perilous journey with many land mines for both sides. We as American men are not prepared for the ultra femininity that these women exhibit.  We interpret their normal feminine behavior as "special" actions that prove their fondness for us.  An AW just would not act this way unless she was madly in love with us.  The RW is just being a Russian woman, but we read way too much into it.  Our mind quickly translates their behavior into much more than was ever intended.
On the other hand, we also unintentionally play mind games with RW.  They are not conditioned to impulse purchases of any kind.  They have to budget just for daily necessities with luxuries usually being nonexistent.  When we throw out comments about frivolous purchases, they do not know how to handle it.  Where is the ceiling?  Were you kidding about buying her a TV?  Or were you serious?  With the language barrier being an additional problem, she for sure doesn't really know what is real.
What I see here is two people who MAY have had something that was real that turned into "something else" because of mixed messages.  You may have read too much into her natural affections and she may have walked through the door of "financial milk & honey" because YOU opened it for her.  
KenC

[MarkInTx]

... in response to mixed messages, posted by KenC on May 21, 2002

The whole buying something on the spur of the moment is a sobering thought.

I have experienced this on a much smaller level with a woman I dated here in the states once.

She was a single mom and on a very fixed budget. The first few times we went out, she was concerned about the prices of the resturaunts. I told her not to worry about it. I wanted her to relax and have fun. To enjoy herself. I even enjoyed taking her places that she had never been before...

Well, flash forward a few months... suddenly, when I would ask her where she wanted to eat, she started naming very expensive places.

And I was thinking "Sheesh, what's she think, I'm made of money? Why can't we eat at home once in a while..."

But, you know what... I TRAINED her to think that way.

This must be MUCH more dangerous when we go to the FSU. It wasn't that long ago that they had to stand in line for bread, don't forget.

Buying a new TV set on a whim must be something that is completely alien to them. And, anyone who can do that MUST be made of money... right?

I'll have to keep that in mind the next time I go over...

When in Rome, do as the Romans... When in Kiev...

(PS: I think that there may be an exception here for clothes. I can't believe what these women spend on their wardrobe when you lok at it as a percentage of their overall salary...)

[greg2]

... in response to Good Point, posted by MarkInTx on May 21, 2002

But, you know what... I TRAINED her to think that way.

IMHO the thinking of a more evolved person.

[Richard]

... in response to mixed messages, posted by KenC on May 21, 2002

However, what I had in mind (19 inch color table top tv to replace the similar sized black and white tv I saw on my first visit) was quite different from what she requested (flat screen tv).

If she had not gotten upset with me in the second electronics store when I tried to comparison shop and had been will to settle for something I can afford, she probably *would* have gotten a TV.  *And* a vcr.  As I said in another post, at that point in time I wanted her to be in love with me so badly, that I would have done anything she wanted me to.  

The *only* thing that saved me that day was that she out and out asked for something I just could not afford.

I agree with you that I may may have read too much into her natural affections and she may have walked through the door of "financial milk & honey" because I opened it for her.

[KenC]

... in response to I was serious about the tv, posted by Richard on May 21, 2002

Richard,
RW have a problem with the values on purchases like this for some reason.  I know when Lena first came here, she could not differentiate between $300 or $3,000 or $30,000.  I cannot explain why, but it baffled me for a while.  I am not trying to make excuses for her behavior but trying to help you understand a portion of it.  
The red flag was raised when she readily accepted the idea of such a lavish gift in the first place.  (And I am speaking of the 19" TV)  I also would be alarmed that what she wanted was a TV and VCR, because women, in general, don't give a rats azz about electronic gizmos.  My thinking is that she was gonna milk you for the family not herself.  Personally, I think that is even worse.  
I recently bought Lena a Sony Palm Pilot.  She was very thankful at first.  After a day or two, she came to me and said, "Honey, your gift is great, but women don't like things like this.  Would you be hurt if we returned it and used the money for clothes or shoes?"  LOL.
KenC

[Richard]

... in response to Re: I was serious about the tv, posted by KenC on May 21, 2002

Due to events I won't go into, I agree with your assesment that she was in it for what she could get for her family.  While I believe that her mother, brother and sister in law were in on the scam, I am convinced that her father was not.

[Ryan]

... in response to mixed messages, posted by KenC on May 21, 2002

I did the same thing I opened the door... Can it ever be shut again?  Nope I guess I move on and learn from that..  Your analogy is right on the money... All because I was trying to be cool...lol

[Richard]

... in response to Trip Report - long, posted by Richard on May 19, 2002

As I see it I made two major mistakes.  First of, I was way too generous.  I left some money with her when I left in October.  Then I sent some more money to help with the visa documents.  Then there was her Birthday in January and Valentines Day in February and International Women’s Day in March.  In April came a request for money for English lessons. While the story about her English teacher having a heart attack did set off alarm bells, I sent the money anyway.  

I sent it because of the other big mistake: I wanted her to be in love with me so badly, that I was willing to do anything she wanted me to.  I think that this is my biggest mistake, because I still don’t want to walk away, even though I know it is the only thing I can do.  I just cannot convince myself that she really is in love with me.

I hope that somebody will read this and not make the same mistakes I have.  

[Ryan]

... in response to My two biggest mistakes., posted by Richard on May 21, 2002

I mean exactly to the letter…  I just could not believe or didn’t want to believe that my girl was being dishonest with me.  I mean I sat with their family at the kitchen table, went to their stupid little garden or dasha, canned fruit together we had some great laughs but then the greed started in from her and I just gave and gave like a fool.  I have dated so many woman in the U.S. breaking hearts and moving on all the time but never in my life have I felt like the way I felt went I finally came to terms with the girl that I really thought that I could live with was taking me for a ride.  She was the only woman in my life that I ever considered for marriage.  It just sucks big time, on that note I guess now I know how some of the American woman that I lead on and turned down felt.  For my case what comes around goes around…
Live and learn
Ryan

[MarkInTx]

... in response to This is exactly how I felt, posted by Ryan on May 21, 2002

So... what do you think... now thinking back on it...?

Was she always greedy, and just playing you along by letting meet the family and everything?

Or do you think that she simply misunderstood your generosity, and then it became expected?

[Ryan]

... in response to Curious, posted by MarkInTx on May 21, 2002

Oh ya it was my fault from the beginning, I was cool and throwing around all that play money you get.  I was stupid and made so many mistakes.  Even sent money before we met.  Her family was not in on it or anything her mother, father and brother and I got along great it is sad that we will probably never meet again.  It was my girl and her mother that came from Lugansk to Kiev to meet me.. (I paid) her mother even asked me one night if I was going to marry her daughter I told her that I didn’t think she liked me and she got all excited NO NO she likes you a lot etc. etc.  (I said that because of a misunderstanding her daughter and I had)   It was a mess and most of not all was because of my actions and misunderstandings.  I think there was chemistry but then I was immature and misunderstood things and just screwed to all up.  As a matter of fact I was just looking for her number and was going to call but I can’t find it anymore I just can’t let it go I feel like I can make it all better because now I understand but like I said in post above I opened the door and no going back.  Find new and start over, but I will always wonder what could have been.  Ahh she was a moody b!tch anyway…lol