Thanks

[Nick]

Hi guys,

Ok, so I've read the replies here and I think I understand a little better. It seems the buzz-word here is "option", that is, we all have a choice in how we choose our partner and this just one of them - and I'm not saying it's wrong. I was curious after meeting the Peruvian girl to see how it works on the other side (i.e. from those choosing their partners), what reasons Western men have for using a service such as this. It's a valid point that women in the West also use economic gain as a factor in looking for a partner, perhaps this isn't a good thing.

However, I disagree with the view that women in third-world nations have different attitudes towards marriage - this simply isn't true. You have to remember that the concept of community and society is more important in these countries. Anyone who has read Bodas de Sangre (Blood Wedding) by Frederico Garcia Lorca would understand what I'm saying. Women in the West are generally less dedicated to marriage because they aren't so much "under the thumb" of their husbands, they feel they have a choice. In other societies a woman can be beaten to a pulp by her husband, but she won't leave him. For a start, divorces can cost money. Secondly, a female who divorces her husband will be seen as a tainted woman by the whole community - women get beaten to death in the street by their own family for having that kind of label put upon them (common in Iran for example). Thirdly, divorces just aren't allowed in some countries. I appreciate this site for providing a balanced view but the page where it lists divorce statistics around the world as an attraction to foreign women, simply sucks.

BTW, I'm not a "gammy, dentally-challenged, Birkenstock-wearing feminist" as I've been labelled on these forums. I'm a politics student but this is purely out of my own interest, I'm not writing a paper on this.

Nick

[Dave H]

... in response to Thanks, posted by Nick on Feb 11, 2002

Hi Nick...,

You may not be a "gammy, dentally-challenged, Birkenstock-wearing feminist," but you didn't tell us that you are a woman...which I suspect. I've read Lorca's "Bodas de Sangre" and don't see your point. Whatever the reason, many "women in third-world nations" have different attitudes towards marriage. It is part of their culture. These women usually bring these ideals and attitudes into their marriages to Westerners...without fear of being beaten or stoned to death. I wouldn't base my opinions on one Peruvian girl.

Dave H.

[Jay]

... in response to Re: Thanks, posted by Dave H on Feb 12, 2002

Hey Dave,

I ain't never read that there book you mentioned, sound's kinda high-falutin'. I saw a movie called "Bod's and Sangria" on the cable last night, though. Does that count??

Jay

[Dave H]

... in response to Re: Re: Thanks, posted by Jay on Feb 12, 2002

Hey Jay,

I did attended my college classes occasionally...when they ran out of beer in the rathskeller. ;o))

Dave H.

[greg]

... in response to Thanks, posted by Nick on Feb 11, 2002

)))))))))..Anyway Live and Learn. hehe greg

[Jeff S]

... in response to Thanks, posted by Nick on Feb 11, 2002


OK, I was one who thought you were a woman just getting her jabs in, but maybe not. This statement "I disagree with the view that women in third-world nations have different attitudes towards marriage - this simply isn't true." Well I don't know much about the third world, but consider this post:

http://www.planet-love.com/wwwboard/show.php?asian/archive00083/messages/29181.txt

Many foreign women have VERY different attitudes about male and female roles in marriage than do American women. I see you're from the UK where I suspect it's not quite as prevalent as the US, but I suspect it's getting that way. BTW I have no problem with women pursuing careers, rising to top level management in companies, being involved in politics at the highest levels, etc. I do draw the line at women in combat, though. There's too much sexual tension and protective instincts at work with 18 year olds to have it be a good idea. Everyone who's tried it (the Israelis for instance) has backed off. Now directing air traffic, planning logistics, etc, tec, is another story.

-- Jeff S.

PS. If you'd really met and talked to MOBs couples, you'd find that the truth is: if their marriage broke up, especially in the early years, most would return home to Colombia, Mexico, the Philippines, Russia, Ukraine, etc. I don't know about now, but if my marriage would have broken up in the first few years, my wife would have been home in a heartbeat. I believe your contention that the basic motivation is to flee their country is pure fiction.

[yc]

... in response to Re: Thanks, posted by Jeff S on Feb 11, 2002

n/t

[Dave H]

... in response to Re: Thanks, posted by Jeff S on Feb 11, 2002

Hi Jeff,

In my case, there is no doubt that my wife would prefer to live in the Philippines, than in the US. She would gladly deal with the poverty, mosquitos, heat, and other hardships, as she has her whole life. It's just part of being a Filipina. The same is true for her sister, who has lived in the US for several years. The only reason they are here is to be with their husbands. My wife realizes that I can't live in the Philippines due to child custody issues, so she doesn't ask.

Dave H.

[Jeff S]

... in response to Re: Thanks, posted by Jeff S on Feb 11, 2002

You mentioned ONE girl you met - while she may be indicative of some of the women who list themselves at agencies, she may not even be close to representative of those who succeed at this endeavor. Remember, only a very small percentage of the women who list themselves with agencies ever actually get married to a Western man. Our discussion below stemming from something Raquel (Feptember) said about how her girlfriends back in the RP, who were talking about hooking up with a rich gringo then dumping him once in the US, we all decided was just trash talking. Those who pass the scrutiny of the man, are far more likely to be in it for more than simply visa prostitution.

-- Jeff S.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re: Thanks, posted by Jeff S on Feb 11, 2002

By Far and away,

Most marriages that end here in the states end because the woman misses her home and returns there. It isn't even close! The "Visa Fox" is not a myth, but she is a VERY rare creature.

Americans have a belief that "since our country is so great, everyone wnats to live here".

Not true.

We may have all of the things that WE think make our country great. But people from another culture don't always agree.

Be it ever so humble... there's no place like home.

[yc]

... in response to By Far, posted by MarkInTx on Feb 11, 2002

Hi Mark,

I made that same point on the latin board.  Most foreigners want the prosperity we have here in U.S., but as far as value system goes we can just keep that.  Some how certain people or persons in this country got it in thier heads that we are the moral center of the world.  Too bad most of the world do not see it that way.  I have friends and acquantances all over the world.  Most are loyal and very pride of their country and culture, which they should be.  In many cases I find that foreigners are usually more respectful of our culture and customs than we are of theirs.  In most of the world, people tend to speak at least two languages or have studied a second language.  Not here in this country.  Everybody in the world should be able to speak english.  I learned a long time ago, the best way to get by when in a foreign country is to make the attempt to speak the language.  It a sign of respect.  I have actually been in other countries and seen locals(that speak english) refuse to communicate with americans because they did not make the effort communicate in that country's native language.  Yeah I know the language thing has been changing for the past several years in this country, but I speaking of the general attitude of certain americans.

[Windmill Boy]

... in response to Re: By Far, posted by yc on Feb 11, 2002

YOu  can  take  the  person out  of  the  country  but  you  can't  take  the  country  out  of  the  person...

It  was  interesting  that  I  was  talking  to  my  mother  yesterday.  She  told  me  that  her  remote  was  broken  and  that  the  only  channel  she  could  watch  was  the  one  that is  airing  the  Olympics.  My mom  relayed  to  me  with pride that the  first  medal  given out   (gold I  assume)  was  given  to  a  Dutchman  for  skating.  my  mom  reveled  that  she  enjoyed  watching  the  figure  skating.  

I  told  her  about  the  sports  commentary  that  I recently  read from  a  female  sports  writer that said ...  although  many men  don't  consider  figure  skating  a  real  sport,  if  they  want  to score  some  brownie  points  with the  women  in  their  households  it  would  be  advantageous if  the  men show  a  vein  of  interest for  all  of  these goofey  sequined costumed   skaters.  And  even  learn  some  of  the  russian  names  involved  ha ha ha.  To  that  my  mom  retorted  but  I  also  like  to  watch  the  speed  skaters  though.  

The  story  goes  that my  mother  and  father  had  their  first  date together  while  ice  skating in Holland.   My  father  passed  away  15  years  ago.  Even though  my  mother  gets  a  pension check  from when she  worked  in  Holland.  She  has  been  here  since  1956  and  wouldn't  want  to return  to  Holland to  live.  She  sasys  America  is  my  home  and  all  of  my  friends  are  here.  But  she  still  has  her  pride of  her country  of  birth.

As  for  me and  my  viewing  habits. I  could  care less  and  probably  won't  watch  2  minutes of  our  countries  biased  coverage  of  the  Olympics.  So  give me  repeats  of Charlies  Angels, the  X men, and  even  Coming  to  America  which I  have  seen  for  the  hundredth  time,  on the movie  channels  I  watch ha ha ha.

Windmill Boy