RW's with kids vs without??

[petem]

... in response to Why Double?, posted by Bobby Orr on Mar 30, 2002

the amount you pay more for the upfront $ is nothing compared what your going to pay the rest of the way. The health insurance, dental bills, clothes that are constantly changing sizes is where you really end up shelling out.
If they are very young it may be workable, but if you have  never had children before, its got to be a huge adjustment, a much bigger risk that it won't work. Common sense.

[Oscar]

... in response to Re: Why Double?, posted by petem on Mar 30, 2002

Man, you just don't quit!  Common sense?  What a hoot! LOL!I have never heard such ridiculous garbage!  Got news for ya, "it's a much BIGGER risk that it wont work" if she's NOT got a child!  Don't know WHERE you get your info!  The women who have been married and have a child are typically more stable and ready for a family and committment, it's that simple.  Of course this is generalizing, but it IS generally true..

Man, you say you want kids with your future wife, but all you talk about is how awful the expenses will be... I really would suggest you not consider having any kids..

[Stan B]

... in response to Re: Re: Why Double?, posted by Oscar on Mar 31, 2002

with you Oscar, I usually don't bother getting into these types of arguements, but my experiance backs up your claims.
Aloha & good luck w/ you & yours...

[NW Jim]

... in response to Re: Re: Why Double?, posted by Oscar on Mar 31, 2002

Oscar,
You may be right that a woman with a child is more likely to stay in the marriage, but what is the price?

The end goal of marriage/reproduction is to push your genes into the next generation. More of your OWN children increases the chances that the genes will be passed on.

Raising some alcoholic losers child does not push your genes forward--in fact that child may impact negatively on any child you would have with your new spouse. These days how many guys can afford more than two children?

In the end it's each persons choice how they want to approach this issue. There's nothing wrong with choosing one path over another, so long as you understand the potential problems and rewards. Viva choice!

[Philb]

... in response to Re: Re: Why Double?, posted by Oscar on Mar 31, 2002

N/T

[Oscar]

... in response to Re: Re: RW's with kids vs without??, posted by petem on Mar 30, 2002

What a load of garbage!  to think that just because a woman already has a child that you will NEVER be a first priority?  That is ridiculous!  So when the two of you have kids together, then a man should expect the same thing? NOT!
The bottom line is that if a woman has her priorities straight, whether she already has a child or whether you have them together,  you will both need to put each other as the first priority and then the kids will be fine, but to presume that a woman with a child will be somehow LESS committed to YOU is silly!  I can tell you that the chances of a woman being MORE committed to you if she already has a child are GREATER than if she does not!  All you have to do is ask all the guys who have had their women leave them, whether they already had a child with them when they came or not!  99% will tell you they were single and had NO kids before they came here!  Of the men who I personally know who married a woman with a child already, every one of them is happy as a clam!

Later

[KenC]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: RW's with kids vs without??, posted by Oscar on Mar 30, 2002

Oscar,
Having a step child is a very very difficult task at best.  It is a lot more stress and frustration than you aknowledge in your posts.  While I agree with your opinion that a RW with a child would tend to be more sincere than one without, the additional strain of a step child will have on the relationship will offset any of the reduced risks.  Everyone wants to be the priority in a spouses life. With a step child you will be competing for her attention in some form or fashion.  That fact aside, you need to have long detailed conversations regarding parenting with your finacee.  Hopefully you two will come to a meeting of the minds as to what role you will play in raising her child.  Again, hopefully she will stick with the plan when the time does come. (Talking and doing are two different things) Step children are a very slippery slope my friend.
By the way, yes, having children of your own also further dilutes the attention you will receive from your wife.  There is only so much time in a day and children have a way of absorbing most of it.
As another poster pointed out, I would rather have a woman devoted to me because of her love not her financial needs.  Your point on a woman with a child being MORE committed than one without children is NOT a positive thing in my mind.  I would always wonder if she was with me for love or out of financial necessity.
KenC

[Oscar]

... in response to A strong opinion isn't always right, posted by KenC on Mar 31, 2002

Ken, what you say is true, having a stepchild is difficult, but having ANY CHILD is difficult!

I also STRONGLY agree that you MUST have serious conversations with your potential spouse about these issues, this is imperative.. But just as imperative if the woman does not have a child, in my opinion.

I really like the fact that someone else agrees that yes, having children of your own will also dilute the "attention" that you get from your wife as children do take time..  I mean, some of these guys thing that for some reason, having their OWN children with a woman will be different in this respect or something, it won't..

A major point to consider is this also-
A woman who SAYS she will be a good Mother but has never been one and has had multiple relationships that did not work by the age of 28-33
A woman who committed and was married at the appropriate age and has a child that you can SEE she has been an excellent Mother with...  I'm sorry, but for me, it's not a choice-  I would much prefer the woman who I can already SEE is a fantastic Mother..  Not all women who want kids end up BEING good Mothers!  I know, because I have had too many of them in my office over 13 years to prove this!

And about stepchildren-  From my personal experience working with MANY blended families, I have usually found that the reason a relationship with a stepchild does NOT work out is because of the selfishness on the part of the FATHER, not the child!  Most of these kids in the FSU, if treated with love and maturity, would just blossom and be fantastic kids for any American Father!  All you have to do is look at the selfish attitudes on the pat of some of the posters on this subject to see exactly what I mean.  But the fact is that these men will most likely have the same attitudes with their OWN children as well..  That kind of intolerance cannot possibly be so specific, but is much more broad in most people!

[KenC]

... in response to Re: A strong opinion isn't always right, posted by Oscar on Mar 31, 2002

Oscar,
You seem determined to lump parenting and step parenting together as both being the same level of difficulty.  I disagree.  Parenting your own children is a very natural thing.  You are the parent that you are sort of thing.  It just has a natural way of all working out.  Being a step parent is MUCH more difficult.  There has to be more consideration to how the natural mother wants things done.  If the children are over the age of 6 or 7 thay will already be "imprinted" with a learned style of parenting.  The adjustment factor puts a tremendous stress on the relationship.  It is one thing for the woman to adjust to a new husband, country, language and culture without additional important adjustments to family dynamics.  Of course I am not saying to not do it, just to be aware that marrying ANY woman with children is more difficult than marrying one without.  The plus side of this is that I feel a woman with a child should have an easier time in adjusting to America.  The child will naturally fill up her days and will help offset any social isolation problems.  The child will be a big piece of her homeland and help her from being homesick.  Best of luck to you.
KenC

[HappyInBrazil]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: RW's with kids vs without??, posted by Oscar on Mar 30, 2002

Oscar,

I really think that if a you have a good relationship, the women is less likely to leave, that's something we can probably agree on.  I also think that if you start a new marriage with a woman and a new relationship with a child it will be more complicated than with just a woman.  So the additional stress and strain from the adjustment might cause a marriage to fail.  I really don't know, and I'm curious also if you know 99 people to make up the 99% of marriages that fail statistic.  I'd be interested to see some studies or statistics on the greater chance of success one way or the other, if you know of any.

I feel a little uncomfortable when I see a post (and this is *definately* NOT directed at you, or any specific poster, but it seems relevant) where someone says something to the effect that they would rather have a woman with children because they are less likely to leave them.  Why? because I think a woman, and especially a person's wife should want to stay because they love their husband and also are committed to their marriage.  Why would that somehow depend of whether the woman had given birth or not?

[Oscar]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: RW's with kids vs withou..., posted by HappyInBrazil on Mar 30, 2002

Women who are already Mothers are often more ready to settle down and make that committment.  They are also less likely to think about leaving once married, unless of course thee is abuse.  How often do you hear of men complaining that they got "scammed" by women with children?  Not very often.  Of all the men I have heard of over 3 years of looking into this, rarely have I heard of men sending back a woman with a child or a woman with a child leaving the guy after they get their green card.  I am not saying it has never happened, but almost all of the "horror stories" I have heard are involving women WITHOUT children..

As far as her having a child and it being more "complicated", I guess it just depends on how much a man is able to love, to give.  If you are like this "Petm" poster, you wouldn't stand a chance, because he shows he is unable to love and is only worried about his assets!  A person saying the things he has will not likely stand a chance with a single woman or a woman with a child.. Both will take an amazing amount of selflessness to work in any degree, something his posts show he does not possess..

[HappyInBrazil]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: RW's with kids vs wi..., posted by Oscar on Mar 31, 2002

I think your point is that your opinion is women with children are more likely to be committed to a marriage, so if you seek a woman with children your percentage chance of having a committed partner and resulting in a successful marriage is greater. I don't have any basis for this, as I think you also probably don't, but it seems like this would be true.

I think attributing the men were (claiming to have been) scammed because the woman had not given birth is ignoring the entire concept of character.

As far as taking exception to my saying that I think children will complicate a persons life, if you don't think you will have additional responsibilities you are extremely ignorant of the logistics involved with raising children. I wasn't talking about the reward of having a family. However if you want to have an emotional reaction and say (or insinuate) I am somehow unloving and selfish based on this limited context, it seems like you really miss why I'm participating in this discussion.  My purpose is to learn and share, and really, you may have some strong views on this, but that doesn't mean there are no other valid positions.

I guess I'm starting to disagree with you more, and I'll have to say it is a person's character that determines if they will be committed and successful in a marriage more than any other factor.

Also, let's take care to not turn this into a judgement fest or insult match.  Agree?

Thanks for the discussion.

[Bobby Orr]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: RW's with kids vs wi..., posted by Oscar on Mar 31, 2002

All I read in your post is hearsay information.  Give me the statistics on the rates of divorce for RW with children and those without children?  I say if it is easy to divorce once, it is easy to divorce twice.  A RW shows bad judgement once in marriage, plus probably has an alcoholic deadbeat father drop off a kid for her bad judgement (thats two huge mistakes).  Like I said before, I leave it to guys like you to rescue these women with bad judgement.

[Oscar]

... in response to Divorce once, divorce twice, posted by Bobby Orr on Mar 31, 2002

So Bobby, you are sure that first, ALL these women were married to "alcoholic deadbeats" right?  And what about the women who thought they had made fine choices, to a guy who was either in school or had a job?  You think these women married these guys when they were what they ended up to be?? I certainly don't!  People make their own choices, unfortunately, many of the men there end upmaking bad choices AFTER the fact.  They especially seem to change often AFTER they have had a child, as they do not usually want the added burden of a child to care for.  How many times I heard from an FSU woman that once they had a child, the guy was gone that he DECIDED he did not want the RESPONSIBILITY of a family.  Now tell me, how would they know this beforehand?  Just how is this such a bad choice on the womans part?  
Your generalizations are really not good Bobby and your logic is flawed..

Lets hope YOU don't find a lovely FSU woman who has never been married and who is dying to have a family, but then once she marries you and has a child, says, "You know, I think I can do better and I'm not ready to be tied down yet, I want to explore this whole American thing, so you take the kid, I'm outta here!

[Bobby Orr]

... in response to Re: Divorce once, divorce twice, posted by Oscar on Mar 31, 2002

I ask for facts and all you can do is dribble.  Weak.