I hate America

[Cold Warrior]

I have noticed some posters( most recently JohnK) saying that their RW’s are critical of America and Americans. I wonder if these attitudes are formed after the lady arrives or does she come with some preconceived notion of America, namely

a)Russia and its culture is superior
b)Life in America is like a Hollywood movie.

In the first case a. Why would a woman advertise in a catalogue for a foreign husband if he is from an inferior culture? Case b. The woman become disillusioned after discovering that money doesn’t grow on trees in the US. Ok , we know that RW wants to leave because of  economic factors and drunk, wife beating RM, or as some ladies put it – they just want a good man – age, nationality, physical appearance etc are irrelevant. Surely it is up to the RW to consider if she is willing to give friends, family and country to be with a foreign husband, to do the possible and impossible to blend in and adjust to a new lifestyle. Its up the AM to be supportive of RW during her first few years when he must practically babysit her before she can venture out alone. So we have to take a new factor into consideration when choosing an RW. A young woman who has never left her mother’s home or travelled beyond her own city might have more difficulty in adjusting.

So what exactly are these criticisms of America. JohnK’s RW speaks of Americans wearing masks. Is being polite and considerate( or at least pretending) to your fellow citizens means you are wearing a mask? Or would you rather deal with a stone faced Russian clerk or bureaucrat who expects to be bribed to do his job. JohnK’s RW speaks of Ukrainians being more ‘opinionated’. Hey, I travelled to about 40 countries and the loudest, most boisterous and who speak their minds are Americans. Now I have lot of Latino friends who are critical of America but they are in no hurry to leave. Neither are the Russians of NY and San Francisco I suppose.

[John K]

... in response to I hate America, posted by Cold Warrior on Jan 5, 2002

Hopefully this won't be taken out of context again, but here are a few ideas based on my wife's perceptions:

1)  America was exactly what she thought it would be and less:  My wife grew up watching "Santa Barbara" almost every day.  Apparently, it was quite the popular soap opera in Ukraine for a number of years.  It's still running, but Ukrainians have less of a fascination for it now.  Other American shows also abound in Ukrainian television, including a number of "Grade B" television shows that never made it beyond cable here.

Marina's first impression when she arrived was almost surreal.  She felt almost as if she was in a television show at times.  Everything she saw on TV, she was now seeing here.  The only thing was that the context was now skewed for her.  Things that were big in the viewer's eyes were common here and the little things she ignored turned out to be important.  

So, there are indeed preconceived notions of how America is like for most Russian women arriving here.

2) America is exciting, well, maybe not:  Television is meant to be entertaining all the time.  Real life can often be boring.  Marina's beginning of her American life started in Iowa.  Does the word Iowa bring excitement to your heart when you hear it?  For most people it doesn't, for good reason.  Iowa has mostly a laid back culture, and as such, it certainly took its toll on my wife's patience.  When you leave a city of 2.5 million and move to an Iowa "city" of 150,000 you leave certain big city benefits behind.

3) America is rich, isn't it?:  That is one of the largest misconceptions that Russian people experience.  Many Russian people believe that all Americans are rich.  If a lady is known to be dating or married to an American man, she and her immediate family come under a lot of pressure and criticism.  Apparently, the russian family is automatically considered immediately "well off" through their association with the American man.  Consequently, people make their lives harder, simply out of jealousy, perversity, or both.  Also, they come under a lot of pressure to "share the wealth", by their friends and relatives...

Hopefully, that will give some of you some concepts to mull over.  American culture precedes us, and our Russian counterparts know us much better than we know them, even if the looking glass is warped.  At least they have a point of reference to begin with...

Other old timers please feel free to add to these perceptions/myths...

[Cold Warrior]

... in response to Some more info to ponder, posted by John K on Jan 9, 2002

My aim in reposting your original post above was to give the guys some insight on a RUSSIAN perception of America, so that they would take the necessary steps to help their future wives in the process of adjustment. Unfortunately it was interpreted by some posters as an attack American culture. Anyway thank you for another good post and keep posting.

[John K]

... in response to I hate America, posted by Cold Warrior on Jan 5, 2002

Here are a few items that I've noticed from talking to various Russian/Slavic people:

1) American "distance":  Americans distance themselves from each other.  In Russia, everyone knows their neighbors and often neighbors rely on each other to resolve problems.  In America, we often hardly know the person in the apartment next to us.  Distance also occurs between two people interacting in public.  Small talk is common, but little beyond pleasantries is exchanged.  Consequently, Americans are seen as having a "mask" on, hiding the real person behind it.

2) Culture.  Sorry guys, but the average Russian turns on the TV here and what do you get?  Jerry Springer, Oprah, Tic-Tac-Dough, brainless sitcoms, 400 different "reality" shows, and the Public Access channel.  Hmmm, I really don't think that is going to impress them.  Yes, there are cultural events you can go to if you want, but the general public usually doesn't have an interest in it.  The latest episode of Ren and Stimpy or Southpark is more appealing.

3) Provincialism: Russians learn about all cultures while going to school.  They know their own history, European history, and American history.  Students usually study one or more additional languages during school.  They watch television programs and movies from different countries all the time.  Then they come to America and find that all we know or care about is America.  How do you think that affects our worldly image?

4) Exercise/Fitness:  The average Russian walks countless miles/kilometers a day, doing their normal course of business.  We get in the car to run to the grociery store a block and a half away.  Sidewalks exist everywhere in Ukraine, but most towns/small cities have little for walking, unless you are downtown.  What's the first thing that happens to a Russian when they come to America?  They gain a lot of weight.  But I've noticed that Russians are quick to start losing it, once it becomes noticeable.

5) Self Image:  Russians pride themselves on looking good.  They dress well, if they can.  Women wear makeup.  They go to the gym and work out.  They come here and see fat slobs running around in blue jeans, tshirts, and a baseball cap worn backwards.  Or some punk/goth idiot with hair in three different colors, ears, nose, eyebrows, lips, and tongue pierced.  Gee, I wonder what that makes them think?

6) Youth and manners:  Russians work hard to raise their children to be polite and respectful.  Then they visit here and see our children running amok, without any parental supervision.  Life among the heathens certainly doesn't seem to appealing to them for some reason...

7) "In your face" cultural influence:  Walk down a busy street and you have some kid drive by with the windows down, stereo blaring some rap tune while the subwoofer rattles the city block.  Turn on the tube and you see Jerry Springer talking to the dregs of society, who use gutter slang to talk about their "exploits" as if it were something to be proud about.  Well, me and my "homies" ain't makin' sugah happenin' for the roosky types.  Ya hear what I'm sayin?

Need I go on?  What we seek in Russian women is a salvation from the things they are going to hate once they get here.  We bring them to cultural hell to save us.  Do you think they are just going to thank us for it?  And we wonder why they don't like America...

Just something to think about.

[Bobby Orr]

... in response to I hate America, posted by Cold Warrior on Jan 5, 2002

Think about it.  Say the Russian economy was as good as the U.S. - where would you rather live?  

Freedom - I still say we would have alot more.

Security - when someone knocks on your door in the U.S. it is not the police coming to take you away, but it may a criminal.  In Russia it increasingly may be both.

Race Relations - By the year 2020 there will be more non-whites than whites in the U.S.  By the year 2050 America will be closer to Brazil than the U.S.  By the year 2100 at current population trends the U.S. will be closer to Africa than anything else.  Russia will be white.

Future - where do you think the best place is for your gene pool? In defense of the U.S., the world is becoming increasingly smaller.  Still, I feel any thinking white man is looking back to his roots.

Culture ie. art, balet, theatre etc, - it is just as good in New York as Russia (though without the history), but you have to pay through the nose for it.  Washington, D.C. is like a second class Russian city, San Fransciso is like a third class Russian city and the rest of our country is a cultural wasteland to the average Russian.  Movies, Disneyworld, football, chain restaurants and parades are not culture.

Society - mobile car in the U.S. vs urban / small city / towns in Russia.  People can get to either and like them both, so I say it is a wash.  It just may be a tough adjustment at first for the Russian / Ukrainian lady.

Environment - If it is the West or South it probably is much different than she is used to.  Still, like society it is just a matter of getting used to.

Believe me, Russian women are thinking about everything.

[micha1]

... in response to Re: I hate America, posted by Bobby Orr on Jan 5, 2002

I only wish I could have written what you did in your post.
When you say, paying through the nose, it is for an elite class.  you are right.

[yoe]

... in response to I hate America, posted by Cold Warrior on Jan 5, 2002

http://cooltech.iafrica.com/technews/514559.htm

[Del]

... in response to best places to live........., posted by yoe on Jan 5, 2002

out by Norway!  Be thankful that your neighbour sets such a good example (and offers wonderful value to it's US visitors). Come visit us and bring lots of money!!
The warm winter has depressed our Natural Gas sales.  :-)

[Ryan]

... in response to I hate America, posted by Cold Warrior on Jan 5, 2002

I think what these woman think when talk about not liking America etc. The are referring to the culture.  I mean this is also why most of us want a RW/UW because of the culture they bring to our lives.  (Tight families, commitment etc) Lets face it most of us do not like American woman because of their values but we all still want to live in America.  These women do not understand the culture issue until they get here then they see what we have been seeing and freak.  I feel as most of us men do, the country is good but the people are, well still have some things to learn.

Ryan

[BubbaGump]

... in response to Re: I hate America, posted by Ryan on Jan 5, 2002

I went to a movie the other day that was extremely offensive.  It was portrayed as a teen comedy film in advertisements.  There were a lot of lesbian and homosexual images in the film and I was offended.  I also noticed that in a Jim Carrey movie I watched on TV a few weeks ago.  Who thinks this cr@p is funny?  I am concerned what a Russian woman will think if I accidentally take her to one of these movies.  

I think our culture is becoming more debased and the culture gap between the US and Russia might just be getting wider as we get even trashier.

[KenC]

... in response to Re: I hate America, posted by Ryan on Jan 5, 2002

Ryan,
Just what is your experience when it comes to RW in America?
KenC
ps (Please take more time to write more legible posts.  They are confusing with all the typos, spelling and grammar errors.)

[Ryan]

... in response to excuse me, posted by KenC on Jan 6, 2002

It was my point of view of what she might have been feeling not my experience.  I didn't think that was a requirement for all posts.  Why don't you just chill-out?  Why is it that you never have an original post you always have to comment on other’s posts?  Someone said that “perceptions is reality” in your case and your buddies I think this is so true.  You give the perception that you are so experienced and know it all threw actually having done it that your some sort of expert.  Please stop with your attacks, it is getting old.
Ryan  

[KenC]

... in response to Re: excuse me, posted by Ryan on Jan 7, 2002

Ryan,
You are paranoid with your "attack" claims.  I have nicely stated that you are guessing at your answer without any experience on the subject matter.  And yes, in this case, I am much more experienced than you.  The point is that you are stating uninformed opinions as though they were factual.  This particular post of your's is off target.  As for my original posts; they are many and are ALWAYS based on actual experiences.  Please refer to my post above regarding RW at the movies.
KenC
ps (Please use a dictionary as your grammar/spelling is shameful for an ex-teacher)

[micha1]

... in response to I hate America, posted by Cold Warrior on Jan 5, 2002

You are right and you are wrong.  All is not as clean cut as you suppose things to be.
It all does not depend in the country, but the education the person as received and how the person lives with what
she acquires.
The USA is a nice country, that's all.  As far as been rich and having it all, it way down the list.
Germany, Suisse and the Scandinavian countries are way ahead in every department for their citizens.  The rest of
westen Europe is doing pretty well, also.
When people travel in search of the rarest and dearest commodity on earth, LOVE, they should be very modest,
perhaps the people accepting them are doing them a favor.  Not the other way around.
This post is not meant as a put down for you or anyone else.  It is my personal view of life.

[Mikey]

... in response to Re: I hate America, posted by micha1 on Jan 5, 2002

Hold on a minute, pal. Although I've never been out of the states, I must dispute the idea that Germany is way ahead of the USA in every way; because I have a German aunt (by marriage). My uncle, (not the husband of the aunt in question), is moderately well off and travels to Europe fairly often. My aunt is very demanding that he bring over various items which she says she cannot get in Germany. In other words, she is saying that she cannot obtain goods of the same quality at home. From what my uncle has told us: it is not an issue of cost, but rather of lack of availability.