hey LP

[Stan B]

some people look & look & look and others are foretunate enough to find. Its like that golf and hole in one analogy, you might be a great 'golfer' but your still waiting for that hole in one. Were as I might not be as good a 'golfer' but I got one on my 2nd swing the 1st time I golfed.
So keep swinging and have fun playing until then...aloha
Stan...the anti-LP :-)

(this is a reply to an earlier post)

[LP]

... in response to hey LP, posted by Stan B on Dec 21, 2001

....wrong there Anti. It isn't a question of looking and looking. It isn't a question of being "fortunate" to find. (The use of the word "find" in this context warrants a "lol" alone.)

It's a question of getting it over with asap...or not. It's a question of using your head, a question of controlling your desperation so as not to do something *really* stupid. Something that could, in time (I mean real time, not a few months), blow up in your face, taking all those involved deep into the emotional abyss.

It's a question of respect among your friends, family, peers and, most importantly, a question of self respect. It's a queston of strength and inner control, those who have it and those who don't. It's a question of not putting yourself in a situation where those around you are shaking their heads and laughing at you behind your back, while smiling to your face. You obviously can deal with that, I can't. Congrats, you be a better man than I.

One who "looks and looks" is not indicative of a "lack of success", anymore than one who does it in record time is indicative of any kind of "success". If I went to a social and picked out one in a week would I be "successful"? Me thinks not and I wager very few here would also. In fact, If *I* did so, then brought her over and two months later claimed "success", that would be an illusion, nay, a delusion on my part.

Playing this game takes research, skill and judgement born of that research, and patience. Learning the "rules" and using them to your advantage to "craft" a real success, not taking the low road out by deluding oneself into believing one can achieve a real victory with little effort. In short, you obviously be a gamblin man. Thats simply not my style.

Me thinks my goals are at odds with your's. You were obvioulsy on a mission where's I'm not. I could have easily achieved your "success" long ago but me thinks my self respect, and my value of the respect of those who surround me, is on a different level than your own.

You didn't get a hole in one on your second swing, you walked up to the second cup you saw and dropped the ball in. Where I come from thats called taking the easy way out, not being true to thyself. Some might even go so far as to call it cheating, compromising your own values.

You'd be hard pressed to find a post of mine where I capitalize my "lol" (I save that for very speacial occasions, it falls just below my "yikes"), and even harder to find one with an exclamation point after it. Your post deserved both. Saying that you "would have never found another like the one you found" (after a week!), even by going on many trips (involving a selection outta a population of perhaps millions), is revealing enough to warrant that special LOL!

Don't intend to rain on your parade, it's just that such a statement is so illogical and indicative of allowing your emotions to overule your  intellect, it borders on being ludicrous to me, but hey, thats me.

I have nothing against a short term fling based on mutual infatuation, but asking someone I met a week ago to marry me?!? If you did that with an A/W, people would think you the fool wouldn't they? Wouldn't you? lol...Wait, don't answer that. Believe me, it's quite different in the case of a chick you "found" halfway around the world. In that case people would think you're bordering on lunacy. Guess what? They'd be right.

No rational adult man would ever have done as you did, the actions of a teenager who thinks he's in "love" after a week. What always amazes me is not that there are so many guys like you who feel this way, but that they can actually "find" a woman who feels the "same". I mean, come on, what are the odds of that?  What are the odds of getting together with another person who thinks thats normal? lol..Easy, when were talkin bout the FSU.

Kinda makes ya wonder about these girls true agendas, eh? No?? Jeez, why doesn't that surprise me?

I wish you luck, but I still maintain it's the actions of guys like you who make this entire endeavor smell bad to the public at large and cause grief for all of us serious enough to pursue it like adults and not emotional cripples. Thats what tweaks me. Thanks to guys like you I have to endure constant hassles and waste my breath explaining that many of us involved are not so, ahhh...rash.

Btw, don't ya fuss over me, I've had what you have for a long time before you went across the pond and made a such a classy move. Not only that, but I'm safe from the disasterous consequences perhaps awaiting you for such impulsive behavior.

Understand, I don't mean it personally. Just stating my opinion in my usual tactful way. You're certainly entitled to mess up your life any way you choose to see fit. And if ya think I envy you in even the most minuscle way, you're much further gone than I thought. However, as I said, I do wish you luck, mostly because I can't help feeling you're gonna need it.

So you see, you and I are at opposite ends of the spectrum. lol...you really *are* the Anti-LP. At any rate, Merry Christmas, I know it's gotta beat the last one.

[Stevo]

... in response to You got it all...., posted by LP on Dec 22, 2001

Met AW at a social...got engaged after 4 weeks/6 dates...got married 4 weeks later...was happily married 7 years...how long would it have lasted?...don't know 'cause she died accidentally.

Met RW after several months of correspondence..got engaged on 2nd date...she came over 8 weeks later...got married 10 weeks after that...still happily married after almost 2 years.

I'm either really crazy/lucky or crazy/perceptive!

Stevo

[LP]

... in response to I guess I'm either REALLY lucky or REALL..., posted by Stevo on Dec 22, 2001

....perception of time is crazy. Two years means squat, or haven't you been paying attention? Come back when you reach the 7 you had with the A/W, then I'll be impressed.

[Richard]

... in response to Lucky for you, your...., posted by LP on Dec 22, 2001

IMHO, two years means alot - most importantly, she is *not* a visa shark. I wish the best of luck to you, Steve.

[LP]

... in response to Re: Lucky for you, your...., posted by Richard on Dec 22, 2001

....luck also. I only meant two years isn't much in any marraige, with any woman, Russian or otherwise. It counts for something, but only a beginning.

As far as the visa goes, if I play the devil's advocate, no one says they have to blow Dodge at exactly two years. They may be comfortable with the situation and choose to wait a little longer.

[DR]

... in response to I guess I'm either REALLY lucky or REALL..., posted by Stevo on Dec 22, 2001

"I'm either really crazy/lucky or crazy/perceptive!"

Are those our only options?  I can think of a few more.    LOL!

[KenC]

... in response to You got it all...., posted by LP on Dec 22, 2001

LP,
I agree with almost everything you wrote here and below.  I do also agree with your statement regarding arguing with a drunken man.  You will never convince Stan and besides, it is too late any way.  All you can do at this point is wish them well (which I see you have done).  There are many many guys that have taken Stan's route to marrying a RW.  In fact, I would have to guess that maybe the majority.  Personally I have met 6 couples that took the short trip into marriage like Stan.  Will they work out?  Who knows for sure.  Time will only tell.  The truth of the matter is that I would only give 2 out of the six a decent chance for success.  Three of them are for sure failures.  Not very good oods at all.

Most of the posters here are very different from this type.  I see where they are sincerely trying to bridge the gaps to insure a "real" relationship before jumping into the fire.  They truly are not the typical MOB men that pick a woman from a website/catalog/social and propose.  They, like you, are into this because RW do offer something special, something better than can be found here.  No matter how much time, effort and research we do will help any of us avoid the stigma of the MOB business.  It is a problem that you will have to deal with should you ever choose to marry a RW.  Especially if you choose to marry a young and beautiful RW.  No matter what the true circumstances of your relationship will be, others will always think you bought a hottie from the FSU.  If what others think is that important to you, you should not continue to seek out a RW.
KenC

[LP]

... in response to maybe you should give up on RW, posted by KenC on Dec 22, 2001

...advice Ken. Of course I care what people think of me, at least as it pertains to this. (lol..If I cared otherwise I'd sugar coat everything I write.)

I have to care to a point, maybe not as much as you think (or as I like), but it's necessary for a bunch of intricate reasons. Complicated, but necessary reasons. I really do wish Anti well, I ain't *that* much of a hard ass that I would do otherwise. You're really of the opinion that the majority chose his route? Hmmm..I think Stan is in a minority, albeit a large one. Let's call it 30/70, but I'm pullin that outta my ass.
I agree the rest here seem diferent by vaying degrees, from Stan, to Mark, to Dan, whose done it right imho. Then again, he has oppurtunities most do not. (I dunno about the age thing, though, but I ain't gonna debate that with *you* :-)

I shouldn't say "argue", from now on I'll say you can't reason with a drunken man, thats better. (lol..So it shall be written, so it shall be done).

I'm simply fascinated by the things folks do under certain circumstances is all. Stan's belief's are quite unshakable in that they approach the solidness of religion, cults, and other examples where a) they cause people do the darnest things and b) they simply do not respond to logic or reasoning even after those things are done. Love, or the illusion of love, certainly falls into that category. History is rife with examples of what people in power have done when they lose it over a female, as are most of our personal lives. Stan's entitled to do as he wishes, it affects me only in that it perpetrates the somewhat accurate public perception that guys who did what he's done are a tad off kilter.

I mean, come on, he states how he's lived on the beach and dated women for years, that he didn't want to give that up until the "right" one came along. Then he goes around the world and after meeting two women, kaboom, there she is. The Right One, and in a only weeks time. See my point?
He spend all those years dating and evaluating others, yet in a week he "knows" this one is The One?
(Me thinks I understand her motivation but thats OK, nothing really wrong there.)

How he can fail to see the humor in that is beyond me and how he countinues to reject the notion that it was a problem is whats fascinating. The only logical explanation is that deep down, he really does know it but his need was too great to excerise control over the situation. This flies in the face of all I believe in, all I've worked for, to absolutley avoid being your own worst enemy. I mean jeesh, life is tough enough as it is without pointing the gun at yourself.

But, Stan is Stan, you are you, and Gary (that would be me) is Gary, and I accept that. I really do wish him well and actually admire his tolerance of those who don't share his views. (lol..Yoey on the other hand is Satan, masquerading as a Hossier. Children Of The Corn and all that stuff.)

As for me, yeah, you're right. Me thinks I'm in the winter of my association with these girls. I gave it two years to learn and formulate an opinion, thats up in March. I've come to the conclusion that, although they possess certain endearing qualities, those qualities are not worth the risk and hassles involved. I simply do not share the opinion that those qualities make them "better" than A/W. While I've been hacked up by a few A/W like everyone else, the rest are no differnt than R/W except the consequences are worse with a R/W when it fails. All else being equal, and I really feel it is, why should I  continue? This is what I've come to after two years and lots of interaction with these girls. They simply are not all they're cracked up to be, period. Been a hoot though, I'll certainly admit that.

I find them exceesivly emotional, illogical (Ok, they're women, but much worse than A/W in this regard), tempermental and, at least many of those I've dealt with, not too bright. Then again, I've met some jewels and thats what keeps me going. I ain't finished yet, lol, ya gotta admit, it's gonna take more time than normal to find a match with me. (Ya know, sometimes I wish I could be like Stan.)

They can also be devious, calculating, and manipulating. Whats that you say? A/W are worse? Hogwash. While individuals vary, all in all, our chicks have the edge over R/W in many areas that really matter. I guess many guys are threatened by that or don't have the skills to deal with it. They want something thats an anachronism in our culture, or simply a young pretty thing to show off.

They also put way to much stock in the femininity thing, other qualities are far more important than that and A/W can be plenty feminine. Besides, these girls *will* change after they come here, I see it all around me  here in our local Russian community. Some of worst women I've ever met are R/W who've been here some time, many end up a complilation of things that would make many A/W appear Princesses by comparison. I know, not all will be like this, but my experience is enough to ring the bell loudly and that's part of the experience that Stan blew off.

I think many guys get into this during a tough time in their lives and eventually come to their senses. I wonder what *that* percentage is? We'll never know because it's a hidden statistic. The rest get "sucked in" by the hype and can't escape, victims of their own lack of perspective.
They chug along and as time goes by they end up doing almost anything to fill the hole in their soul. Some just waste no time and plug it pronto, maybe thats really the best if their gonna piss away a few years anyway. It's for them to decide but thats not for me.

Anywho, one must do as one believes. Wether it's a mission to marry a R/W, climb Everest, knock down towers with airplanes or position oneself on a tall building with a rifle, a guy has gotta do what a guy has gotta do.
Each example *firmly* believes in what he's doing and ya won't talk him outta it, I guess thats my point.

Man, I'm ramblin more than usual today. It's rainin up here and she's gone until Christmas, visiting her "kind". I'll tell ya, those guys on the Asian board know something ya'll don't. ;-)

lol, Now where did I put that aluminum foil....

[yoe]

... in response to Thanx for...., posted by LP on Dec 22, 2001

, climb Everest, knock down towers with airplanes or position oneself on a tall building with a rifle, a guy has gotta do what a guy has gotta do"
I never felt like climbing mount everest!
Satan's Claws I mean Santa Clause ho ho fukkin ho
see under your tree!
Joe ;0)

[yoe]

... in response to maybe you should give up on RW, posted by KenC on Dec 22, 2001

the inenvitable and the guy just does not get it. Now everyone here knows I am the first to praise RW-and yes I know I am too generous, but they can get you. I met one guy with a very smart, attractive woman 25 years younger-later my wife tells me-she will leave him soon. I ask her, "Why did she marry him?" DUH! But it does happen and I have seen it with my own eyes. But you must understand this guy lives in the middle of nowhere, has spent all of his deneros........hey love can only go so far. She is working her arse off, she cannot drink or smoke-and she is a young girl from a big city. I think our Dande found out some things about big city girls in rual communities.
Anyway-if you cannot afford to make may tips and/or you were lucky enough to find 'the right one' the first time(because it is not hard) be smart about it-have something to offer and have some things in common.
by the way-it is not just luck that we are meeting these 'destiny' girls so quickly-we are looking for something and they are looking for something-we satisfy each others hinders and everyone is happy-it is not some great mystical event-it is just basic economics. We have not found what we want here in the USA becuase it is bad economics.
econ 101
men wants young intelligent beautiful women- maybe mother figure
women need security strength and compassion-maybe father figure

FSUW and other women from around the world wants what AW have to offer
AM wants what RW and many women around the world have to offer
many AM want white women
AM goes to FSU
FSUW come to America
it is not hard or bad or anything..........it is just the right thing at the right time---------it is life. Accept it and enjoy
Joe

[Stan B]

... in response to You got it all...., posted by LP on Dec 22, 2001

LP, If you knew me, then I'd put a little weight to your evaluation, but you don't, thus I can only look at your responce as a generalization of my situation. As far as being impulsive, yes it was a bit, but from where I sit, there was nothing worth waiting for. If I had any doubts I would have waited, but I saw no need and I defineately don't regret my choice. And once you know someone is right for you, whats the point of waiting? Does everyone that meets someone on their 1st trip or only writes 1 girl make this "entire endeavor smell bad to the public at large and cause grief for all of us serious enough to pursue it like adults and not emotional cripples"?
As far as desperation goes, if you remember I live on the beach on Maui and have dated plenty of women over the years and was in no hurry to give all that up, unless I found the right one, I did and I know what I have. I also know that if I wasn't up to her expectations, she wouldn't stay here after the 2 yrs either. What woman would, regardless of nationality?
And I never for a second thought you were jealous of me, why would I, you have a good life, money and all of those things. The point of my post was that you never know where lighting is going to strike. I went out once and got hit, you can bring all of your expertise and knowledge and chase all the storms you want and it doesn't mean you'll ever get it, or it might strike tomorrow, thats the way the world works, like it or not.
As for "not putting yourself in a situation where those around you are shaking their heads and laughing at you behind your back, while smiling to your face. You obviously can deal with that, I can't. Congrats, you be a better man than I." Well if that comes about,which I seriously doubt, I'll deal with it just fine. And if that makes me a better man than you, then so be it...aloha, Stan (who's glad to be the 'anti-LP' :-)

[LP]

... in response to You got it all wrong, posted by Stan B on Dec 22, 2001

....lol...

"If I had any doubts I would have waited, but I saw no need and I defineately don't regret my choice."

You keep saying that in your posts, over and over. How can you possibly know she's right for you after so little time?
You can't. How could you *possibly* make such an argument?
As far as regretting it, of course you don't...now. When you were over there, being blinded by the light, did you even consider what might happen later? Me thinks you had nary a clue.

"And once you know someone is right for you, whats the point of waiting?"

Say what?!? How about some risk management, some caution, some control, some perspective that no one can possibly be "right" for you after one week? How bout some common sense?

"Does everyone that meets someone on their 1st trip or only writes 1 girl make this "entire endeavor smell bad to the public at large"

No, of course not. But what you did is a far cry from that. Most go back home, develop the relationship, go back and spend more time with her. You didn't do any of that. Apples to oranges. Everyone who goes over, asks a girl to marry him after one week and then goes and does it, *does* make it smell bad to the public. It's just plumb irresponsible and to say it isn't is simply crackers. Me thinks that Maui
Wowie has taken it's toll on your bean, lol, ya wanna end up like Yoey?

"Well if that comes about,which I seriously doubt, I'll deal with it just fine."

*If* it comes about? You gotta be kidding. You think it already hasn't, and long ago? You honestly believe most of the people you know aren't already doing that, or did at some earlier point? Wonder if we ask the proverbial hundred people on the street what they think of your moves? Or that many here don't secretly feel you're fruit loops?

The point of *my* post is that you were blinded by your own emotions so badly that you can't possible be objective about the foolhardiness of what you did, at least when you did it. Nay, even now. It's simple amazing to me that you could let it go that far, can't you see that? After all, who's running your show? Who's driving your bus? lol..You had full deflection on the localizer and slope, a missed approach would have been prudent. Instead, you chose the Smokin Hole One Arrival.

Your constant refering to "she's the one", "I knew it was right", ect, after knowing her so little time is simply
nuts! You must be one of those guys who believes in "love at first sight" and all that nonsense. Jeesh Stan, you're a big boy, not a hormone raging, pie in the sky kid in the 10th grade. I just dont get it.

Can't you remember that you must have felt that same way in the beginning of any of your past failed relationships? Ones with women you got to know much better before they failed? Ones you were glad you didn't marry in the end?

I give up buddy, I just have to assume you were simply to far in over your head, to outta control to even see anything past your own desires to solve the problem as quickly as possible. You're a *classic* case of the "one can't argue with a drunken man" syndrome. :-)

Anyway, thanx for not takin it personally. I consider it just a friendly debate. Well, actually, for me it borders on a rare look into the far reaches of what some guys will do. lol..Man, you're *really* out there to actually buy what you're selling. As Mr Spock would say: "Fascinating!"

It's OK, too late now anyway. I'll simply chalk your present
attitude up to being in love *now*, nothin wrong with that. My points were about how you started it all and you'll never change my mind about it. But, it's a done deal and what will be will be, one way or the other.

My wishes for the best remain intact, as does a hope you exercise better sensibilities and control in any command decisions you make in your future.

lol..For the life of me though, this one'll be hard to beat.

Take 'er easy....

[Stan B]

... in response to Yikes!, posted by LP on Dec 22, 2001

Unfortuneately I don't have a lot of time today (or thru the new year), as the tourist season is starting and its work time. But like I said, I don't take any of this personally, being that you have never met either of us. But at the same time, I do hear everything that your saying and in most cases you'd probably be right. But you've got to admit that it is possible I have made the right choice and found an exceptional woman and the right 1 for me.
As far as waiting and making a 2nd trip, my feeling is that if a woman wants to decieve you, 1 more trip don't mean squat. But we did use the 5 month wait for the K-1 communicating and getting to know each other as best as that allows. And we also had 10 weeks before our marriage to confirm our feelings towards each other, which is much more telling than a 2nd trip. As we have now spent real time in real life situations and have seen how we both act and react. And to tell you the truth neither 1 of us is madly in love, but it is growing every day.
And as for people laughing at us, if they don't know us, I couldn't care less. But for those who do, I seriously doubt that they are. All of my friends have commented on what an exceptional woman she is, which is more than apparent when you met her and see us together.
Thank you for your wishes and I wish the same for you. I hope you find what you are looking for, I know I have...aloha

[LP]

... in response to Re: Yikes!, posted by Stan B on Dec 22, 2001

lol...but I gotta tell ya that you're gettin close to being like a robot who's head spins and smoke pours out because it can't compute something. Or maybe thats my situation? lol, if we talk any more about this, blood is gonna come shootin outta my ears.

"I do hear everything that your saying and in most cases you'd probably be right."  

But not in *your* case, eh? :-)

"And to tell you the truth neither 1 of us is madly in love, but it is growing every day."  

Well, thats great, and a good deal. But why would you marry someone you're not madly in love with in the first place? Even after a thousand weeks??

The prosecution rests. :-)

Seriously, thanx for your candor and I hope you both have a great life. Take care....