What should I do?

[Johnny W]

Hi everybody,

I've been posting here for more than two years. Some of you will remember that I've been married with a Russian lady for more than  two years. Now I'm having a problem that I need some advice about.

Our relationship is wonderful. She loves me very much and I love her. She has got a good job, even better than mine, and contribute very well economical, and we get along wonderful. Everything looks fine. However there is one problem that is growing bigger and bigger for me. I've a teenage daughter from my first marriage. My first wife died in a traffic accident, and it was a terrible situation for both of us. When Elena came into my life five years after the death of my wife, it was wonderful for me, but for my daughter it was frustrating. I was quite sure it would be fine in the long run, but now I see that Elena has not succeeded to get a good relationship with my daughter. Norwegian children have a very free upbringing that is a mirror of our open and democratic society with little respect for authorities. Maybe this is difficult for Elena, to conduct herself to an intelligent teenager who is used to argue and question everything. However  I love my daughter, and it hurts me to  see that Elena doesn't like her, I think. In fact it's so big a problem for me that I, in bad moments,  think that our relationship cannot go on. I'm  always thinking she can do more to get a good relationship, but I understand she thinks my daughter is spoiled. I can compare my daughter with other girls at the same age, and I know that she is a very good girl. Maybe I'm blind because I love my daughter so much, but I think that is a correct observation. I'm not willing to sacrifice my daughter to get a good relationship with any woman.

Maybe some of you have some good advice for me. Especially I would like to get an advice from our female contributors in this forum.

Johnny W

[ChipShot]

... in response to What should I do?, posted by Johnny W on Dec 21, 2001

In the U.S., there are Family Therapists who work with this issue all of the time. A good therapist can be very helpful at identifying areas of concern, and helping you, your wife, and daughter come to an understanding and appreciation of each other, and devise ways to manage differences. Again, look for a Ph.D. level psychologist, with licensure as a marriage and family therapist. Only good things can come from a few meetings this way, I promise. Your marriage and your relationship with your daughter can be healthy, at the same time.

[BrianN]

... in response to What should I do?, posted by Johnny W on Dec 21, 2001

When I first saw this post, no one had yet answered it.  

First, a big wrench started to tighten in my gut, because I had to deal with this exact same issue as a step-parent, ie, you ain't my daddy... for years.

I was hoping that someone else would come in and offer advice because it was just too aggravating for me to even go there again, but reading these responses, wow... I'm so happy that others can see and relate also.

Since this is your first time dealing with this situation, I can only offer two thoughts, and no advice, since most of that has been covered by all of the great responses posted here.

1.  She isn't my mother, are code words for:

A. I don't like her.
B. I'm jealous of the attention that you give to her, and I hate it because I'm not THE lady of the house now, and not the central one and only female in your life.  (Also means "I'm insecure with this arrangement, I don't like the idea of being number 2, because she can meet your every need, and now... how am I supposed to go about getting your approval?")

2. Lena left her life, to take a chance with you and your daughter.  Your daughter still has everything she started with since you began this venture but Lena stands a chance to lose it all.

There are no real ways to "coddle" this deal to some magical fruition, because it will just never happen; but with a  hard line attitude about this subject, to your daughter, you may find that the passive agressive behavior from her, just might go away all by itself.

"Touchy feely tip-toe around the subject, coddle coddle, coddle" never works with your own kids in this situation.  No need to be a total authoritarian, but rather black and white.. and at the same time, sensitive to the issues that she's still a kid growing up, without her real mother.  When the new wife also thinks and reacts this way, (and has some compassion for the daughter's loss of her real mom, instead of being competitive), it makes things a lot smoother for all.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to What should I do?, posted by Johnny W on Dec 21, 2001

My second marriage ended because my daughter and my wife did not get along.

(Although there were other reasons... this is what was "blamed"...)

I felt that in the end, it was more important to be a dad than a husband -- my daughter needed me more. I still firmly feel I made the right decision...

However, in your situation, I would probably choose the other way.

You have said that your daughter is independant. (She's also probably not developing a good relationship with your new wife out of deference to her mother -- she can't love your new wife without feeling guilty...)
But remember: She is a teenager, soon to be on her own. In many ways, it sounds like she is already there.

I know you love your daughter, and rightly so. But she is going to leave you soon. It's what kids do. She will "leave the nest" very soon...

Don't lose the love of a good woman for the sake of a few strained times over the next couple of years with your daughter.

IMHO

[Johnny W]

... in response to What should I do?, posted by Johnny W on Dec 21, 2001

I would like to thank all of you who a responded to my questions. I was a little depressed last night when I posted. Today I look a little brighter at the situation, partly because I feel better, and partly because of the good replies I got from you. I'm overwhelmed of the positive and wise responses I got. Truly there are a lot of wisdom and experience to find on this board.

Maybe I made the situation too dramatic. Usually we have a friendly relationship all three of us. We have been travelling a lot together, also to Russia to meet our Russian family, and my daughter liked it very much and wants to go back. I was, however, missing a closer relationship between Elena and my daughter. Maybe I in my fantasy have imagined that a close and intimate relationship would develop, like it did in the movie with Julia Roberts: "Stepmother". My daughter already goes to Elena to get help, with changing a dress or other things that I'm not good at. Sometimes, however, I notice that she speaks to her through me, and sometimes it hurts me to see that Elena doesn't involve herself in my daughters life as much as I wanted.

Today we had that  talk so many of you advised me to do. Of course we have talked before also, but this talk ended very good. Maybe Christmas makes something with us. My wife and my daughter have been making Christmas decorations together, and it was a  pleasure for me to listen to how they  were  chatting together.

I think everybody who is looking for a Russian bride should notice that he doesn't only get a wonderful woman, but he also get a woman with other traditions and upbringing. I believe some of our problems are due to cultural differences, especially about bringing up children. My wife has a very good education in science, and in the first time she lived here, we thought about it if she could get a job as teacher in mathematics.  However, she couldn't stand the thought of teaching Norwegian children.

Again thank you all of you, and merry Christmas. The  greatest day her is Christmas eve on Monday.

Johnny W

[Tootsie]

... in response to What should I do?, posted by Johnny W on Dec 21, 2001

I know what you mean when you speak about “free upbringing”. When I moved to Germany I was just shocked how much German kids differed Russian ones and how much different German parents treated their kids. Kids were allowed EVERYTHING! They could “play” with expensive musical center (“if they break it the insurance company will cover the loss”), they could lay on the floor in a café while the parents were drinking their coffee, they could do this and that. But very soon I realized that the results of such “upbringing” were much better than here. Children had much more healthier nervous system and stronger personalities. And, I must admit, all the parents I met treated their kids with respect, even if a kid was just several months old.

It seems to me that in your situation your wife needs your help and defence more than your daughter although it’s only you who can judge it. But I would warn you from treating your daughter with love only and being blind about her faults considering it as “free upbringing”. If she treats your wife with disrespect she should be “punished” by you (it’s up to you how you do it – not to talk to her for some time, not to give her money for something or something else). If you take a puppy and he “spoils” your expensive white coach you will hardly pet him and give him delicious food right after that. Most probably you’ll spanken him with a newspaper and tell him in an angry voice not to do it any more. I believe this is the proper way of treating men and children. .

Good luck,

Tootsie

[Johnny W]

... in response to Re: What should I do?, posted by Tootsie on Dec 22, 2001

Hi Tootsie,

I can assure you that you would be shocked again if you came to Norway. In Germany they have a very strict dicipline compared to Norway. Together with the rest of Scandinavia, I think we are on the top of free up-bringing in the world. I think we have gone to far.

Thank you for your reply. I agree with you. Elena is in one way very  alone here. Even if she has a job and begin to speak our language well and begin to get her own friends, she depends on me for a lot of things. That is something I'm very aware of. She needs my support. I understand it more and more. At the same time I don't see any contradiction in loving my daugther.

Is it still cold in Moscow? We have at last got snow, and it's about -7 to -9. It's wonderful to look at the trees covered with snow. I think it will be possible to go skiing in our Christmas vacation. Both Elena and I love it very much.

Johnny W

[Jeff S]

... in response to What should I do?, posted by Johnny W on Dec 21, 2001

Lots of excellent thoughts below. I especially liked Russian Wife's. Having raised a step-daughter myself, I want to re-emphasize that all teenagers go through an argumentative, rebellious stage. I did, my sister did, and my step-daughter did. Even Mark Twain once said that at the age of 16 he was amazed at how stupid his father was, but by 21 he was even more amazed at how much his father had learned in five short years. Your daughter will get through this by her early 20s and while she may never love your wife, she'll likely accept her much more than now. Very best wishes to you and your family.

-- Jeff S.

[Johnny W]

... in response to Re: What should I do?, posted by Jeff S on Dec 22, 2001

Heh, heh, it's strange how quickly fathers can learn in a short time. Good point.

Johnny W

[KenC]

... in response to Re: What should I do?, posted by Jeff S on Dec 22, 2001

Jeff,
The magic age is 13 here now.  I have warned many friends that the 13th birthday of their children marks the exact date that every one of their children's friends becomes MUCH smarter than their parents.  It is like someone has put a spell on them and they turn into total disrespecting jerks overnight.  LOL  My experience is that this "demon child" gradually evolves into a rational loving young adult. But the process takes years!! LOL  Having a step parent is just another weapon in their arsenal.  Glad I am past that.
KenC

[Johnny W]

... in response to the age is 13 now, posted by KenC on Dec 22, 2001

Hi KenC

Heh, heh, I had to laugh of your expression "demon child". It's true, Sometimes you feel it like that, sometime they are just so wonderful.

I think the worst age is 14 :-)

Johnny W

[Rags]

... in response to What should I do?, posted by Johnny W on Dec 21, 2001

I can relate to your problem as I have raised a stepchild (and am starting on my second) and was in your new wife's position. However I disagree with your statement that your child's responses are due to being raised in a "free upbringing that is a mirror of our open and democratic society".

A family is not democratic relationship. Children are not equal to adults and must be taught to respect and defer to authority. Not to say that they cannot question authority but they must understand that others have more expirience and knowledge than they do. They also need to know you are looking out for their best interest however much they dislike your decisions.

IMHO you are more responsible for your childs actions than "society" and now you must face the consequences of your actions and inactions.

[Johnny W]

... in response to Re: What should I do?, posted by Rags on Dec 22, 2001

Hi Rags,

I mainly agree with you. There should be an authority in every family. However there should also be some democratic principles. In my country we are trying to expand democracy to  all parts of our society, schools, working places, public administration and even in families. Sometimes I've a feeling we are going to far. I don't know. I agree, however, that parents in cosideration of their longer experience and their responsibility should have more than one vote :-)

Johnny W

[Rags]

... in response to Re: Re: What should I do?, posted by Johnny W on Dec 22, 2001

and I hope that you reach some compromises with your daughter who has gone through some tramatic changes in her young life.

I do side with the majority here that she will go through this phase and look back in her twenties as my stepson did and realize that their actions were inappropriate.

I also agree that your wife should be given additional support in these clashes with your daughter.

[Del]

... in response to Re: What should I do?, posted by Rags on Dec 22, 2001

each of my young people had a 'vote', and as the 'chairman', I of course, had 4 votes!!!!
They joke about this to this day (and, likely will all the rest of their lives!).