A Resolution...

[Mars]

... in response to Ask you lawyer....., posted by panther on Dec 21, 2002

I wouldn't waste another minute of my time on her. Let her sort her won problems out.  Get divorced quickly and move one.

[Mars]

... in response to Re: Ask you lawyer....., posted by Mars on Dec 21, 2002

I wouldn't waste another minute of my time on her. Let her sort out her own problems. Get divorced quickly and move on.

There...now I feel better.

[Bear]

... in response to Re: What?, posted by Howard on Dec 21, 2002

losing me as a friend but her as a friend yes.  I didn't say overwelm the girl like a tital wave.  I said let her know why you married her in the 1st place.  Be patient and kind, tell her you care and do what ever it takes to help her (not financially - emotionally and physically).  Stay in there with hope and prayer and tell her every chance you can you love her and God will give you that chance to get her back.  But you can't run from her now hurting her as you go because the nightmare these other guys are posting will happen and she is already scared of you.

You do not know how close you are to winning and you are quitting.  Hang in there just a little while longer.  Don't be stupid and not prepare but don't give up yet.

Bear

[kevin]

... in response to That won't happen..., posted by Bear on Dec 21, 2002

I disagree that he should make any attempt to salvage this thing.  Your role in this was with good intentions.  I just think you were naive.  I think Ayesa was put on the spot and had to invent a new alibi.  The scariest thing, and this is where Howard really must take steps to protect himself, is that as time progresses, Ayesa will become more "street smart".  Howard may be kind, patient and tender-hearted, but once Ayesa gets influence from the "gypsy network", they'll all be laughing like hyenas after the push him into the deep abyss.

- Kevin

[Mars]

... in response to That won't happen..., posted by Bear on Dec 21, 2002

I can't beleive you are advising him to "hold on".

Unbelievable.....All your advise will get him is a hard kick in the pants. Of course, it is totally up to him and you are entitled to your own opinion.

Thank God Howard finally came to his senses....

[cc]

... in response to What?, posted by Bear on Dec 20, 2002

Sometimes, the "signs of God" are difficult to distinguish from the "signs of Satan", don't you think so?

Howard has endured enough suffering, I think he has the right to come to a quick and clean resolution. Ayesa still needs professional (psychiatric) help in my opinion, but this is independent of Howard's need to free himself. If Ayesa stays in the US after the divorce, nothing would prevent them to remain friends on some level or prevent Howard from helping Ayesa with her problems.

[BrianN]

... in response to What?, posted by Bear on Dec 20, 2002

[Ray]

... in response to A Resolution..., posted by Howard on Dec 20, 2002

“my wife can't see anything past her own sadness.”
“She feels tremendous guilt and shame”
“She is unable to consider my feelings”
“her depression and anger toward her parents”
“crying all the time and talking about suicide”

Howard,

When I read your post, so much of what you said sounded all too familiar. My oldest daughter went through a serious bout with depression some years ago. She attempted suicide several times and luckily we were able to get her the professional help that she so desperately needed before she killed herself. I can see all the symptoms in your description of your wife’s behavior.

I am not so much concerned with you or your marriage right now as I am with the health and well being of your wife. I am no medical professional, but please consider talking to a mental health professional NOW, before it’s too late and someone gets hurt.

I copied this info from the National Mental Health Association Web site:

-----
Learning to Recognize Clinical Depression

Not everyone experiences clinical depression in the same way. Different people have different symptoms. See your doctor or a qualified mental health professional if you experience FIVE or more of these symptoms for longer than two weeks or if the symptoms are severe enough to interfere with your daily routine. A thorough physical examination to rule out other illnesses may be recommended.

Symptoms of clinical depression
-A persistent sad, anxious or "empty" mood
-Sleeping too little or sleeping too much
-Reduced appetite and weight loss, or increased appetite and weight gain
-Loss of interest or pleasure in activities once enjoyed
-Restlessness or irritability
-Persistent physical symptoms that don't respond to treatment [such as headaches, chronic pain, or constipation and other digestive disorders]
-Difficulty concentrating, remembering, or making decisions
-Fatigue or loss of energy
-Feeling guilty, hopeless or worthless
-Thoughts of death or suicide

http://www.nmha.org/ccd/support/symptoms.cfm

----

Deeply concerned,

Ray

[Howard]

... in response to Clinical Depression?, posted by Ray on Dec 20, 2002

Ray,

I think it's quite obvious that my wife is depressed, but she won't admit it.  I have been trying for nine months to get her into a doctor and she simply refuses to go.  I am going to talk to her cousin tonight and I will explain to her what I see and ask her to help me get Ayesa some therapy.  Through this whole thing Ayesa has been my concern.  I don't hate her in the least.  I am not thrilled with her actions and her refusal to let me help her, but ultimately you can't force someone against their will to see a therapist, unless of course, they have attempted to injure themselves or others.  Unfortunately, emotional injury is not admissable, at least not as far as I know.  I'm honestly hoping that when I begin proceedings it will imporve our communication.  Then maybe, with the help of her cousin, I can get her the help she needs for herself.  I have repeatedly told her that she is depressed and that a doctor can help.  She just doesn't want to hear it.  There's not a whole lot more I can do, even though I wish I could.

Thanks for caring Big Guy :c)  I have always valued your opinion and friendship :c)

H

[BrianN]

... in response to Clinical Depression?, posted by Ray on Dec 20, 2002

Hey buddy,
One can only go so far in this, and while I agree wholeheartedly with this post of yours, it only works in amicable situations, where you've got some room for emotional negotiation.

I'm really very alarmed (to use my rw interpreter's term), that she's actually here.  Because now, her emotions can be twisted till the sun don't shine at the behest of her relatives.  Howard's out of the picture, imo, and now is going to end up the pawn of THEM, not her.

This relationship, is totally F'D!  Period.  Her cousin and whatever, is not going to do anything to help anything except continue the selfish course that this whole thing was sprouted on, and that is, Howard's dime.  Financially, and emotionally, and malice in that, is not even a consideration.

To her relatives, she's now a virtual refugee, and anything that Howard could do, positive or negative, is a detriment to her situation.

It's not about her emotional health.  The whole thing is about control, and who has it.  Filipinas are like that... love them or whatever, it takes an extreme amount of political jockeying to get the desired end results in a situation like this, and depression... at least admitting it to themselves, is the LAST thing on their minds.

Sorry, I've been here, and done that, including the clinical depression thing, (actually more like manic depression), and can still see it in my ex whenever she's around.  It would take God himself to come down to tell her that she needs real help, medication etc.. before she'd actually come down off her self-protectionist throne to meet with me one on one with regards to this issue.

I saw this situation a long time ago on the thread, put out the warning posts, in my own way, regarding my own past situations and hoping that others would take note, but apparently, nothing has hit home.  

This guy needs help to escape.  There is by no means, any other situation that will allow him to get out of this, other than flat out divorce, and that is.. immediately.

Her mental health, is no longer his responsibility as a husband.  She's made the decision to go on her own, and now must deal and pay for the results of her actions.

Not everyone can be helped, no matter how good we see them, or how well we would wish them to be.

This woman, is out of this closet of responsibility.

Call me cold... but call me cold because I have been here, done all of it, and yet.. still get along with my ex because we have two filam kids that are teenagers.

Hell, I spent 7 years separated ALONE before I could reach amicable terms for divorce.

Howard doesn't need this, nor does he need the responsibility for a kid he can't control.  Which is exactly what his "wife" is... a kid.

[Ray]

... in response to Ray,, posted by BrianN on Dec 21, 2002

I agree that once she walks and Howard files for divorce, then the marriage has effectively ended and she is no longer his moral responsibility.

But if I were in this situation, and I still loved my wife, I would want to help her for her own sake. I guess the easy way out would be to dare her to kill herself and prove she isn't just bluffing. If that happened, I'm sure that there are probably a few here that would secretly rejoice that now Howard's money is safe from the cluthes of the evil beeatch. Oh well, to each his own.

But you're also right that he can't do a lot to help her with her medical problems if she doesn't want to help herself. That's the way depressed people are, from my experience. And they are just hell to be around.

How's that Russian connection working out?

Ray

[BrianN]

... in response to Brian, posted by Ray on Dec 21, 2002

rw doing very well.  already had a couple of arguments to discover real "temper".. heh heh...  but otherwise, it's pretty cool.  Got no complaints.  Both of our egos seem to be deflated, sitting on the sidelines where they belong.

Anyway, I really take exception with your "wanting to help her for her own sake".

I'd REALLY WANT TO DO THE SAME THING, but not after what I know now.

She's very naieve, and subject to brainwashing, and likely, any attempt on his part to actually take care of her, will, in all likelihood, end up being construed as his methods of control over her, for which she must remain steadfastly strong and independent; ahem, according to her relatives.

One thing I've come to know real well in this culture, filam women trust their counterparts long before they'll trust the am.  And they'll never admit being wrong about it either.

I'm not just talking about my ex.  From 1980 thru 1994, my private life was nothing but filipinas/filipinos and how they act and react, (women wise that is).

But they are not all like this... crap.  It's just like american women.  They're not all the same, but all the great ones, "seem to be" happily married and unavailable!

ouch.
this sux.

[BrianN]

... in response to Ray,, posted by BrianN on Dec 21, 2002

the manic depressive thing I was referring to, was me... not my ex.  I never understood the entire deal with depression until late 98, after I was finally divorced and clued in by someone else about it.

Understanding ones self, and the reasons for anger, frustration in life.. and all of that, really has taken a toll on me after the last 3 years, but I never knew it.

Funny, I used to laugh at the commercials on tv advertising about depression and going to those "places" to get help, for certain symptoms that even matched my own.  While I still have my attitude, (Which I have yet to jettison), I have lost a lot of my own anger towards myself, and everyone else that I held a grudge against in the last 20 years.

The only problem with this situation is.... I think that my ex keeps trying to hook me up with her relatives either in Surigao City or Las Vegas, because I'm a "nice guy".

nahhh don't think I'll go there.  For now anyway.

I'm having too much fun on these boards to change.

lol...

[cc]

... in response to A Resolution..., posted by Howard on Dec 20, 2002

Dear Howard, I am very sorry for this and I know you deserve better. Perhaps you feel victimized and hate Ayesa for what she has done to you, but most likely you simply had bad luck. I still believe that Ayesa may need psychiatric help to get her out of that depression, which is eating away both her and your happiness... Best wishes.

[shadow]

... in response to A Resolution..., posted by Howard on Dec 20, 2002

Howard;
Unfortunately under the circumstances, I am glad you are finally resolving this issue. The sooner you end it and get on with your life, the better. The ache doesn't go away anytime soon, nor are you likely to recieve answers that you can believe. I seriously doubt she is feeling anywhere near the guilt and shame she should be feeling, probably what she is feeling is relief. Relief that you are letting go easy after all she has put you through.

I think many of us were in a fantasy world when we went into this. It was an easy package to buy, and exactly what we all wanted to believe. "The best wives", "honest, loyal" "family values". What more could you ask for?

I think at last you have made the right decisions. Although some people have been making this system work, I don't think the odds are nearly as good as maybe they once were. Unfortunately, short of living there for years beforehand, I don't believe there is a way to find out what the real person behind the persona is. What is their REAL agenda?

Good luck Howard! You have my email addy.  

Larry.