One Guest Worker Program An Insult To Us...

[Gary Bala]

... in response to A poll from the left... 2:1 Against, posted by Ray on Dec 18, 2005

Another one is from the more "neutral" Wall Street Journal/NBC News just last month, Nov. 04-07, 2005, page 17, 1003 adults, all persuasions, + or - 3.1% error margin.

Should Congress enact a law "allowing foreign workers who have jobs, but are staying illegally in the United States to apply for legal, temporary worker status?"
Totals:
48% say yes now or in the future
47% say no.

Adobe PDF
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/poll20051109.pdf

[Ray]

... in response to Wrong poll, posted by Gary Bala on Dec 18, 2005

Margin of error = +/- 3.1%

47% + 3.1% = 50.1 NO
48% - 3.1% = 44.9  YES

You lose…LOL!

[Gary Bala]

... in response to Wrong Results, posted by Ray on Dec 18, 2005

I guess they don't teach polling statistics in the law school of hard knocks...

[Red Clay]

... in response to Re: Sorry, we ain’t buying it…, posted by Gary Bala on Dec 18, 2005

[This message has been edited by Red Clay]

Scroll down the forum and find Gary B. advising against obtaining a US visa by fradulent means (thread entitled "Help" by Ranger71)  

It appears that Gary is trying to "restrict immigration" by discouraging a poor, desperate Colombiana from seeking the life in the USA that she deserves. I could argue that the Colombiana has a greater right to enter than the illegal Mexican, at least she would have a valid visa, albeit secured by fraud. No moral difference between the two, they both would enter the US using whatever means necessary.

Gary, I agree that several aspects of the House bill will be impossible to effectively enforce. Allowing tens-of-millions of illegals to cross over the last 20 years has made enforcement impossible due to sheer numbers alone. That doesn't mean that the current stream of illegal border crossing should be allowed to continue, however, and it's not too late to improve in that area. More and better fences/walls/barricades and military involvement at the border are steps in the right direction. Countries that are serious about securing their borders don't worry about "how it looks" to erect physical barriers.

Hearing that family visits for guest workers will be limited to spouse/children doesn't change my opinion. The fact that the "guest worker" would be legal to be here is more than enough pandering/coddling. Add that idea to the list of immigration problems that are already unenforceable, nothing to stop "family visitors" from overstaying, even if they did "wait in line" for years to obtain tourist visas like everyone else.

BTW, the idea that guest worker petitions will be put in line behind other petitions is hard to swallow. Political pressure will prevent that from happening, you watch. The amnesty crowd will SCREAM that the poor employers who can't find American workers can't wait 5-10-15 years for those petitions to be approved! The entire purpose of "Guest Worker" would be defeated! Our economy would collapse! (...and, we would be losing valuable time in persuading the new residents to vote with our political party

Just watch, in time that will be another privelege extended to them, or at least to the ones who aren't already allowed to vote illegally.

[Ray]

... in response to Re: Sorry, we ain’t buying it…, posted by Gary Bala on Dec 18, 2005

Gary, I'm tired of reading amnesty bills.

You use the same old tired arguments that I heard a few years back when they had ANOTHER amnesty plan and kept extending it. It didn’t work before and it won’t work now. The invasion continues and amnesty is a joke, regardless of what you want to call it.

I’m NOT afraid to face up to the fact that there are some 11-15 million ILLEGAL aliens here now. Why are you afraid to call them ILLEGALS? “Undocumented workers” my ass! The guys who stole my truck and broke into my house were NOT WORKERS! The idiot gang-banger who shot and killed a local police officer here was NO WORKER! The terrorists who flew into the World Trade Center and Pentagon were NOT WORKERS! Why can’t we just call a spade a spade and dispense with all this politically correct garbage?

And the old argument that ILLEGALS pay taxes is a bogus one. It has been shown that ILLEGALS use much more in government benefits than they pay in taxes.

You say “Physically and realistically, they won't be deported. That just won't happen.” No, it won’t happen with that defeatist attitude. Tell the world that we don’t have the will or the means to deport ILLEGAL aliens and millions more will rush in here, all the while laughing at our laws that we don’t have the balls to enforce. Why the hell don’t we just surrender to the invasion? We CAN deport them if we wish to! It’s time to stop sending the wrong message to the rest of the world and start enforcing our laws.

What’s this “immigration restrictionist” nonsense? So anyone who supports upholding our immigration laws is an “immigration restrictionist”? I fully support LEGAL immigration and have great respect for immigrants who respect our laws and come here LEGALLY. You can use any liberal label you want, but I ain’t buying it!

As far as what the Democrats want, I really don’t care any more. They will oppose anything that actually enforces our immigration laws, so the hell with them. They lost the election and the people have already spoken. They can like it or lump it as far as I’m concerned.

And why are you so concerned about “getting Mexico mad at us”? Who cares if Mexico is mad at us? The government in Mexico is always mad at us anyway. We are the ones who deserve to be mad at Mexico for encouraging their citizens to break our laws and then whining about it when we try to enforce our laws. Screw Mexico! Fence the border and let Vicente Fox and his corrupt buddies whine away!

I really think you need to stop listening to 60 Minutes and MSNBC and start listening to the American public. We are sick and tired of this nonsense!

Yes Gary, I am enjoying the holidays, especially since the House finally grew some balls and passed a respectable immigration bill. May you and yours have a Merry Christmas (OOPS! Happy Holidays… LOL).

Ray

[stefang]

... in response to Still not buying it…, posted by Ray on Dec 18, 2005

You haven't seen nothing yet. The WTO is arguing now that Congress doesn't have the right to decide how many work visas are allowed for the US. If they were to win in global court we could be opened up for even more immigration. It doesn't matter to me maybe this will be good when white collar professionals start losing their jobs as well. I'm sure the manufacturing workers will finally see the sweet revenge when no one cared about them.

[Calipro]

... in response to One Guest Worker Program An Insult To Us..., posted by Red Clay on Dec 17, 2005

Republican Sens. Jon Kyl of Arizona and John Cornyn of Texas nothing more than traitors that sold us down the river for special interest.

[Ray]

... in response to One Guest Worker Program An Insult To Us..., posted by Red Clay on Dec 17, 2005

Family visits? That’s the biggest load of shit I’ve heard all week!

Whenever you hear phrases like “path to citizenship”, “earned legalization”, “comprehensive reform”, etc., you can bet that some politician is trying to fool you and me that it isn’t another amnesty plan. ANY plan that allows illegal entrants to stay here, including proposed “guest worker” plans, IS AN AMNESTY SCHEME, plain and simple.

Don’t let the politicians and lawyers pull the wool over your eyes. Amnesty for illegal aliens has been tried before and it has only encouraged more illegals to come here. I agree with you. Tell the stupid politicians to shove their amnesty up their butts!

Tell all of your weenie senators to pass the House bill that was approved yesterday without screwing with it.

Ray

[wayne3]

... in response to What a Crock!, posted by Ray on Dec 17, 2005

I hire a guy in my business and don't pay workman's comp, and employment taxes and I'm in deep sheet.  You drive down the I-5 and there are thousands working with no WC and tax deductions.  Those ag businesses don't pass on the discounts in labor to the products, and then to us, they just make more money.  The Gov't looks the other way and selectively enforces.  It's all just a complete joke.  We could stop it next week by imposing huge fines for employers hiring them.  I say send them all back across over a 2 year period to get in line and then register to be in the country under a modified employment program.  I agree that they contribute, but they should all be legal. Rewarding breaking the law is just plain stupid.

Just try to go to NZ or Australia and immigrate.  I tried that one, and they won't let me in even though I don't  need to work anymore....  

I don't blame the undocumented workers, I blame the lousy system that rewards it.

[WS244]

... in response to Re: What a Crock!, posted by wayne3 on Dec 17, 2005

One does not have to pay them workman's comp or any taxes on them, just hire them as subcontractors and issue them 1099's. In the end the mexican is issued a 1099, does not pay any taxes as he does not even file a return.  This is the game played here in south Texas with  homebuilders who do this as an ordinary course of business.

Step one
Homebuilder hires a subcontractor (legal)
step two
Subcontractor hires other sub/subcontractors (legal or maybe not)
step three
sub/subcontractors hire sub/sub/subcontractors who hire those with fake SS cards or no cards at all.
Step four
There are so many contractors, and the way 1099's work, the IRS is overwhelmed.

For those who wonder how these illegals get work up here, and how employers beat the system everyday and get away with hiring them, this is the way it works. Under 1099 rules employers do not take out any deductions as with W2's.