An Unpopular Subject

[CelticUrge]

There was a post on another forum that elicited responses including "emotional outbursts" and the "damn y'all" rhetoric from others. Quotes are from me. These posts were responsible for my motivation to respond. At the request of HODA I am posting the same here, deleting reference to any names. See below the ***** partition.

This individual made some points that he did not like about living in the U.S. and stated that he would prefer to live elsewhere, if he could afford to do so. He did not accept his heritage from another country originally, yet stated that he is an American. He disagrees with the present administration. He believes the ideals of our country are fine but it leaves much to be desired. His experiences in Latin America have made him dislike the U.S. even more. The item that set off some people was his statement that he would not be willing to pledge allegiance to ANY flag. Regarding heritage, BTW, mine is originally Bavaria (now Germany), Ireland and the Normandy coast of France, for those of you interested in such matters.

It is easy to react emotionally. I do agree that everyone has a right to their own opinion, even if its an unpopular opinion. That does not make the majority right, just makes them the majority.

There have been many times that I have witnessed some emotional response both here and at other forums resulting in a flame war that was, sometimes IMO, a complete misinterpretation and misread of the original post that started the whole thing. I am not (one person referred to), not inside his head and not responsible for his actions and reactions, but I can offer my own observations, experience and opinions. In doing so, it is possible, as I stated earlier, to make an inpression or affect the outcome to some small degree.

*****

I don't think any country, including this one, lives up to its creed. There is political corruption, huge governmental waste, attempts to interfere with the affairs of others states, secret deals contrary to what is stated publically, appointments of friends and supporters to positions beyond their abilities to manage, support of enemy states for political or financial gain, shady elections, etc. ad nauseum.

Guess what? This is not only true in OUR country, but in every other country as well.

However, in this country we actually have the opportunity to vote in local and federal elections. That essentially means that you and I count for something. We may or may not be in a majority, but we can voice our opinion by voting. IMO, the local elections are far more important than any other elections and you and I and everyone else should be intimately aware of all people running for local seats, and have a clear and concise reason for your vote on each one. If our guy looses, then we still have the opportunity to be involved in some manner. Can you or I actually change the country? Perhaps, but that is not my goal or desire in life. However, I can have a tremendous impact on those around me, my family, friends, people I interact with regularly. This is my opportunity to make a difference. I can change or have an impact on some people. I can make someone else question his or her beliefs for just a moment. They must make any change on their own. I can only point and attempt to show an alternate way.

I don't disagree with you on some of your points. IMO, yes the WMD "reason" for going to war was a farce from the start, and that is even more apparent now. I don't believe that France, Germany and Russia are "bad" countries because they disagreed with our invasion of Iraq. They were reaping huge financial benefits from the status quo previously. That was a result of these countries essentially outcompeting us to get the contracts, make the money and benefit from something, even though the sitting regime was very bad and put there by the U.S. in the first place. Now we benefit financially from having control of Iraq, although at some great loss. There have been 2000 deaths, but the wounded is up around 30,000 and those with permanent disabilities approaching 10,000 people. Between Afghanistan and Iraq, we have already mounted losses equivalent to the entire Vietnam War, and it will continue for years to come. I don't like any of this, but we are there and must (or should?) finish the job. Frankly, I'm not optimistic that we will succeed. Our track record has never been good at these issues. Do I support our troops? Of course! They are in harms way and deserve my respect and support regardless of whether I agree with why there are fighting. And I don't think I need a ribbon, much less several, on my vehicle to show my support. Once a decision is made, well that's it. Support our guys and move on to the next subject. Is it unpatriotic to question our leaders, even on the issue of Iraq? No, of course not! It is, IMO, more patriotic to always question your leaders, and your sources of information.

I have no doubt that I have already polarized some of the people reading this. There are those that blindly follow and support whatever we are doing throughout the world. Well guys, we can't possibly always be right. Just can't happen. Sometimes I'm concerned about someone who jumps on your case about having an "alternate" opinion. IMO, that is wrong and an indication of where we are as a society. We have completely lost the ability to discuss and disagree in public. There is no more of the "gentlemanly" respect of years ago.

You are not wrong to disagree with whatever issues and policies that you desire to bring to our (or anyone's) attention. As a citizen and member of a democratic and free (although I dispute that we are really free) society, it is your duty and obligation to always question our leaders every day. This is an issue lost on those that blindly follow whatever occurs. We should always question our leaders. They lie, cheat, pad their own pockets financially, promote their friends and supporters, take advantage of some and support some others. Of course you should question it at all times. Not all are bad. Some are good. But they can stray anytime. You should also make an effort to educate those you interact with personally on issues of importance to you. Most people have opinions, but few have good solid, logical, well thought out reasons for their opinions, very few. Show me a man who can believe strongly in an issue, yet make an absolutely convincing argument and present a strong case for the exact opposite view and I'll show you a man who actually reached an opinion worthy of respect. Most people only know their "side" of an
issue. That means very little to me.

I don't think it is appropriate to reach the conclusion it would be better to live in another country just because some things are out of whack here. I also don't think that it is appropriate for someone else to just casually dismiss you and tell you to pack your bags and get out. Both are wrong, IMO. This country offers you and I the opportunity to live comfortably and in safety, for the most part. Unfortunately, as is evidenced from the Latin countries, we have no time to enjoy that success. We have little free time, or insufficient free time, to enjoy out "stuff" and our families and loved ones. The latin countries have this as a priority, for the most part, and that is readily apparent to me each time I travel to LA. I envy their lives at times. That does not necessarily mean that I want to live there or will someday move to LA, although it is an attractive option tto me at the present time. I originally came to these forums looking for information that would assist me in finding an ideal wife to bring back to the U.S. In reading and learning from others here I have discovered that there is yet another option I had not seriously considered, moving to another country to take advantage of money I have earned here and the cultural aspects of society in another country. I could, for example, see myself living in Colombia, Paraguay, Argentina or Chili. Do you know the real reason why? Because I simply don't know enough about what is really going on there to make it unattractive to me.

Here we are constantly in pursuit of making money. Go to work at a job. Build a business. The wife must work to make ends meet. Buy a larger home, a newer car, SUV, boat, whatever. Who raises the kids? Not the parents. That is apparent in our everyday life. The kids are shoved around all the time. There is little or no discipline. The kids run the home, set the agenda, control the parents and do whatever they desire. Wrong! Should not be that way. By placing a child in our educational system, they loose 95% of their creativity. That's appalling to me. If you can afford it, there is the option of private schools. That is better but not nearly as good as home schooling. I don't know that I am personally ready for the committment of home schooling, yet I must consider the option.

Yeh, we have problems. Entitlement and racism are probably the top two, and in that order, IMO. But that does not make this an undesireable place to live, just a difficult place to live. Anywhere you live will have its difficulties. Ever met someone with a frontal lobotomy that was not happy? Just a joke, perhaps a sick one. If you have a brain as I call it, then you are destined to struggle to lead a happy life. It will elude you to some extent because all this stuff weighs upon you at a visceral level. Being an intelligent, thinking being is not compatable with leading a happy life, IMO. There is just too much going on around me that makes me sick to my stomach or gives me a constant migraine, like people who drive slow in the left lane and won't let me by, or someone who feels compelled to tell their boring, inconsequential whining stories to everyone they encounter, even when there is a line of people behind them waiting to check out. Every time these, and other, situations occur, I think of the martians heads exploding in "Mars Attacks" when they hear the Slim Whitman song "Indian Love Call" ("When I'm Calling You").

I used to tell my family that when I retire, I plan to leave the country and live in a place where I do not speak the native language. I would not be familiar with the day to day struggles, the local and national politics, the worst of societies problems, and, therefore, I could not possibly die frustrated, angry, dejected, beaten and alone. I would die a happy man being completely unaware and ignorant of my surroundings. Which is the better option? I don't really know! Its an important issue to me that has no easy solution. Perhaps some day I will be intelligent enough to resolve the issue for my own life.

[Ray]

... in response to An Unpopular Subject, posted by CelticUrge on Nov 1, 2005

You mentioned France, Germany, and Russia in your post and I felt a need to give my opinion.

For Germany, I think Schroeder is a little socialist weenie who has his nose stuck way up Chirac’s butt, and mostly wanted to tweak Uncle Sam’s nose a little while scoring points with his French buddy. I was happy to hear that the dork lost the recent election.

Russia: I wouldn’t trust Putin as far as I could throw him.

For France, I think the prevailing opinion of the typical Frenchman around the world is that of an arrogant snob and a back-stabbing coward. I know, I shouldn’t generalize like that, but that’s how I feel. I think Chirac is a pompous ass and I certainly don’t consider France to be a reliable ally of ours!

Of course, those are just my opinions :-)

Ray

[Hoda]

... in response to On the subject of France..., posted by Ray on Nov 2, 2005

Mal doesn't take kindly to folks who put mayo on fries...

[Malandro]

... in response to Oh Puh-leeze don't get Mal, started on t..., posted by Hoda on Nov 2, 2005

[This message has been edited by Malandro]

their music sucks though.  ever hear a song in French??

also, their food is overrated.   Ever ate at a cheap French restaurant??   you just can't get a good burrito there.  and the chicken wings still have the feathers.  

I ate at a Frog restaurant once for brunch and had just a thick piece of toast with a hole cut out of it with a small piece of sausage in the hole.   I think it came with some eggs too.  all for about $15.  The stuffy atmosphere and rude service were gratis however and I did get to sound like a homo when I pronounced my order.  

making a hole in your bread for your sausage is just something the French would do.

[Ricardo]

... in response to they do make good toast though, mon ami, posted by Malandro on Nov 3, 2005

... silly post;  your ignorance of French culture shows!  

[Ray]

... in response to too dumb!, posted by Ricardo on Nov 3, 2005

Five surgeons are discussing who makes the best patients to operate on.

The first surgeon says, "I like to see accountants on my operating table, because when you open them up, everything inside is numbered,"

The second responds, "Yeah, but you should try electricians.
Everything inside them is color-coded,"

The third surgeon says, "No, I really think librarians are the best; everything inside them is in alphabetical order."

The fourth surgeon chimes in: "You know, I like construction workers.
They always understand when you have a few parts left over at the end and when the job takes longer than you said it would."

But the fifth surgeon, Dr. Morris Fishbein, shuts them all up when he observes: "The French are the easiest to operate on. There's no guts, no heart, no balls and no spine. Plus the head and ass are interchangeable."

[Ray]

... in response to too dumb!, posted by Ricardo on Nov 3, 2005

A complete listing of French war heroes (alphabetic):

[Keith NC]

... in response to too dumb!, posted by Ricardo on Nov 3, 2005

Why don't you enlighten us if you are so fond of the French culture!

[Ricardo]

... in response to Re: too dumb!, posted by Keith NC on Nov 3, 2005

It's not up to me to enlighten you.... that the personal responsiblity of a sensible adult.

[Keith NC]

... in response to Re: Re: too dumb!, posted by Ricardo on Nov 4, 2005

Blah, Blah, Blah.

[Ray]

... in response to too dumb!, posted by Ricardo on Nov 3, 2005

Some famous quotes about the French:

"France has neither winter nor summer nor morals. Apart from these drawbacks it is a fine country. France has usually been governed by prostitutes."
—Mark Twain

"I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me."
—General George S. Patton

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion."
—Norman Schwartzkopf

"We can stand here like the French, or we can do something about it."
—Marge Simpson

"The only time France wants us to go to war is when the German Army is sitting in Paris sipping coffee."
—Regis Philbin

"The French are a smallish, monkey-looking bunch and not dressed any better, on average, than the citizens of Baltimore. True, you can sit outside in Paris and drink little cups of coffee, but why this is more stylish than sitting inside and drinking large glasses of whiskey I don't know."
—P.J O'Rourke (1989)

"You know, the French remind me a little bit of an aging actress of the 1940s who was still trying to dine out on her looks but doesn't have the face for it."
—John McCain, U.S. Senator from Arizona

"They've taken their own precautions against Al Qaeda. To prepare for an attack, each Frenchman is urged to keep duct tape, a white flag, and a three-day supply of mistresses in the house."
—Argus Hamilton

"As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure."
—Jacques Chirac, President of France

"As far as France is concerned, you're right."
—Rush Limbaugh

[Ricardo]

... in response to French Culture Lesson #2, posted by Ray on Nov 3, 2005

It's amazing that you post such tripe.... are you really interested in a foreign wife or girlfriend, seriously??  

[Ray]

... in response to Re: French Culture Lesson #2, posted by Ricardo on Nov 4, 2005

A French firing squad stands in a circle, then surrenders.

[Bob S]

... in response to Re: French Culture Lesson #2, posted by Ricardo on Nov 4, 2005

8-P

[Ray]

... in response to Just not a French one.  n/t, posted by Bob S on Nov 4, 2005

A Frenchwoman with a parrot on her shoulder walks into a bar.

The bartender says "That's a real ugly bird you have there. Where did you get it?"

The parrot says "I got it in France ... There's millions of 'em there"