14 hours before departure

[Seeker]

Every passing minute makes every remaining minute more valuable. I'm excited! In less than 14 hours I'll be departing to from LAX to Miami and then off to Medellin. This will be trip #6 to Colombia for me. It hasn't been easy, but I've managed to maintain a long distance relationship with my "girlfriend" in Medellin. We met in late January through match.com. I visited her in May and we travelled together for 10 days in May. I put "girlfriend" in quotation marks because this term is the closest I can find to describe our relationship. Maybe it should be "cyber girlfriend" instead. Anyways, I'll be arriving to Medellin Saturday evening. I'll be visiting with my girlfriend Saturday and Sunday. On Monday I'm off to Cali for a week. Then, I'll fly back to Medellin and travel with my girlfriend and her one year old daughter for a week. We are thinking of San Andres or La Guajira.

Some of the greatest challenges facing this relationship are the ex-husband and his indirect influence and power over the future of our relationship. If he doesn't cooperate, then the child can't leave the country, and the entire relationship is doomed. On the other hand, if he does cooperate, I'm not ready for marriage. Again, I need time to make a wise decision. I haver really high standards and feel I have a lot to give to a prospective spouse, but also quite a bit to lose. I want to avoid making a mistake of such huge magnitude.

In Cali I will be trying to put my girlfriend into context in terms of other Colombian women, and my life. It may not make sense to many of you, but I need the space and time to make a wise decision. I will be meeting women from agencies and comparing/contrasting my girfriend with them. For better or worse, I've learned to expect the unexpected and have a Plan B and Plan C. I haven't spelled it out for my girlfriend, but I'm confident that she is intelligent enough to know that this is what I'm up to. In fact, when she asked if she could join me in Cali, my emphatic "NO" must have confirmed to her my intentions. At first I thought that I could accept and love a child that wasn't mine as a matter of fact. Now I realize the huge committment that marrying a "mother" entails. I realize that the relationship with the child/children has its own dynamic. It was unrealistic of me to expect that I could instantly love and accept a child that is not my own, as my own.

My trips to Colombia have also become vacations. I now have a group of friends throughout Colombia that make my visits more meaningful. I just spoke to a Colombian friend who lives in my town who asked me to take a few things to her sons in Medellin and her sister in Cali. I can count on these Colombian connections to support me while travelling in Colombia. It is interesting how what you focus on expands. I'll keep you guys posted.

[Spanky]

... in response to 14 hours before departure, posted by Seeker on Oct 7, 2005

Fickle is a better way to describe what you refer to as "high standards". It doesn't appear the child was presented as a big surprise to you, and you shouldn't even be considering the child as a separate entity. If you truly love the woman it should be easy to love the child.

[CelticUrge]

... in response to Re: 14 hours before departure, posted by Spanky on Oct 9, 2005

Amen. That seems to be a common problem here, and other forums. If the woman has a child, it is a package deal. Take it or leave it. If the kid makes you hesitate, then you have no business wasting her time. Admit your lack of maturity and committment and move on, and let her more on.

[A1A]

... in response to 14 hours before departure, posted by Seeker on Oct 7, 2005

Obviously she is just a playmate for you to travel with.  If you find something better in Cali, you'll dump her.  If not, play with her another week.  Then the next time to Colombia you'll do the same thing.  When you return to Medellin, I hope she tells you to "F@ck Off", she might suprise you and just be smart enough to read betwen the lines you are drawing.

[Pete E]

... in response to 14 hours before departure, posted by Seeker on Oct 7, 2005

S,
I know you as a very thoughtfull carefull guy.I think you are doing the right thing here.Untill the girl becomes THE  one,a status that would be novia,its wise to keep shopping.She is a big MAYBE it sounds like.
One of the biggest mistakes a guy can make in my opinion is to get locked down with the wrong girl.So untill she is a YES she is MAYBE and you have the right to explore other options,which can be usefull in putting the POSSIBLE more serious relaionship in perspective,but  could result in another choice.This ia a CAREFULL SMART option.
Guys need to read the "girlfriend" here.This is a maybe.Not a novia,not yet a commitment.
Much better carefull than sorry.
Shop untill you are certain is a wise choice in my opinion.
I have another suggestion but will not post it here,wait untill you get here.

Pete

[beenthere]

... in response to Re: 14 hours before departure, posted by Pete E on Oct 9, 2005

Pete, what you fail to see here is that, I'm very certain that this girl THINKS she is his novia...not many women travel with a guy and bring her daughter along if it is not an exclusive relationship.  Tell me Pete, what is her daughter to think during this whole trip??  Mommy is just traveling with a male friend.  The whole thing stinks, not from Seeker's perspective, but from the woman's.  He needs to be upfront with the woman and tell her his TRUE feelings, and cancel the trip with his "GIRLFRIEND" and "GIRLFRIEND'S DAUGHTER"...

[JaySlo]

... in response to Re: 14 hours before departure, posted by Pete E on Oct 9, 2005

Keeping your options open is the course of wisdom. I am no beginner in this quest and there is no difference in novia and girlfriend as far as the average gringo is concerned. My advice was and still is to keep things very clear  in the beginning of any potential relationship. If any of the girls don't go along move on. Don't try the semantics play on girlfriend/novia. If someone is your girlfriend there is a committment.Period! There have been some good advice given, don't undermine it because of friendship.

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Re: 14 hours before departure, posted by JaySlo on Oct 9, 2005

I think Seeker is saying no commitment.Its an important decision.A colombiana will try to pin you down,not want you to see others girls even if the relationshipo is ay short of exclusive or commitment.
I tell guys don't go fdor it.Unless its exclusive for you ddfo not waste your precious time locked down with a girl you are not serious with of who is not serious with you.They like to meerp thier options open,you should to.
I admit I have not read all the feedback and there may be some gems.When I see Cali James on the other side of the argument I have to consider a possible point.He is the wisest guy I know re Colombianas.
I have not been following closely,just respectvseeker and havec nonprtoblem eith the way he stated it.
My suggestion for him.,sell one of those 2 rental properties,good chance thebareex losers from here on  out,take a one yesr sabaticalm fronm his teaching job to buscar Mujeres.Its that important and he had great options.
I am better mentally today,admit I was out of it 2 days ago,mucho Sangre in the poopies esta manana,probably headed for surjury pronto.I didn't realise I was much sloppier than normal,which is bad enough.

Pete

[Cali James]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: 14 hours before departure, posted by Pete E on Oct 9, 2005

[This message has been edited by Cali James]

Hey Pete,

It's really hard to know what's going on with a guy from just reading a paragraph or two of a post on a public forum. PL is famous for making judgements based on scant information. I'm guilty of this as much as anyone and am undoubtedly guilty of this here.

Having said that, it sounds to me like Seeker is confused about the whole question of marriage and his relationship with her. He called her his girlfriend yesterday, yes in quotes, so at somepoint my guess would be this is what they thought of one another. To confirm this, I went back and reread some of his posts from the past and he's called her his girlfriend before and went as far as saying "I believe I have found the Colombiana I've been seeking" and said his time with her were some of the happiest in his life. But going to Cali now to meet other women is a huge departure from this. It's a sign that the relationship is anything but exclusive and has changed in his mind since he last visited her in May. Maybe this is a case where the relationship went faster than it should have. (I could see a relationship moving fast if I went off on a romantic vacation to Santa Marta with a woman as Seeker had done with this woman.) It's easy to move forward in a relationship, but stepping back or reversing things is very hard. Stepping back from a relationship that was "novios" to one that is not exclusive will in my experience kill it.

I also get the impression that Seeker likes this woman but just maybe he isn't crazy about her or perhaps is over-analyzing it. This is what he wrote as his final sentence from his trip report "What I need right now is a couple of months to process my experiences, confirm my commitment to Sandra and make the necessary preparations to take on the responsibilities of a wife and daughter. I have no doubt that Sandra would be an ideal wife, but knowing myself and based on past experiences, it is best to proceed cautiously." The words "knowing myself" caught my attention, it's almost as if he doubts himself in some way. Whatever this means, there's clearly some doubt in Seekers mind about this relationship or maybe with the whole process or marriage itself. Yesterday he said he isn't sure about being a step-dad and all the complications that come with it. This is understandable. He also said that even if the father of the child would give the permission, he's not prepared to marry her now anyway. This is a guy who is confused about what he wants but he should have thought harder about these questions before he started a relationship with a woman who has a child.  I think his side trip to Cali, whether it is intentioned as such, is insulting.  

I get the impression that Seeker's an extremely cautious guy but he's nuts to think he can put his "girlfriend into context in terms of other Colombian women" by travelling to Cali to meet other women.  He should be finding this kind of context while dating not while he's in a romantic relationship.  To me this shows a total lack of maturity and a callousness to others feelings. I guess the bottom line for me is it's almost impossible to go from novios to something that is far less than that and have one party, the one who wants to be in a committed relationship, wait. It's like being put in a state of suspended animation, it can be torturous. I think in these kind of situations it's better to be truthful and move on. He should cancel his trip to Medellin as he's not treating this woman with the dignity she deserves.  

James

[Pete E]

... in response to 14 hours before departure, posted by Cali James on Oct 9, 2005

James,
He will be here tomorrow night.We will talk I am sure.There are alot of presumtions flying here.I have never known him to be flaky or inconsiderate.I think there are serious issues to be resloved before its a go.

Pete

[mudd]

... in response to Re: 14 hours before departure, posted by Pete E on Oct 9, 2005

You know, whatever he does, i hope he takes into account that their is a little girl involved in all of this. looks really bad to go on vacation with a mother and daughter, and then give them their walking papers.

[Cali James]

... in response to Re: Re: 14 hours before departure, posted by mudd on Oct 9, 2005

I've been trying to see this objectively but I keep coming back to the point you've made about them taking romantic vacations together with the child.  Beenthere is right, the woman believes she's the novia and what's the little girl to think too.  To make matters worse, he's planning another romantic vacation with them after he returns from his Cali fishing expedition.    I think she should be the one giving the walking papers....

[Cali James]

... in response to 14 hours before departure, posted by Seeker on Oct 7, 2005

[This message has been edited by Cali James]

I think possibly you've rationalized your position with this woman.  It sounds to me like the Medellin girl is you're backup not the other way around.  Is it possible that the real plan is to go to Cali and find someone you like more than this woman or someone you feel more comfortable about marrying?  But until you find her, the Medellin girl is available and likes you.  You're not prepared to cut her loose because you'll be without anyone in the interem.  If this is what is really going on, this looks like shopping for a better deal to me.

The fact that you're calling what looks to me like your backup plan,  your novia, really shows how far you've departed from clear thinking.  I'm sorry but novios who care about one another, don't go looking for NEW novios unless they've got bigger issues going on.   Maybe you need to clarify with her what your real relationship is.  Tell her that she's actually your plan b.

As far as her having a wife with a child from another man goes,  I'm going through it and so far it has worked out for me.  Getting the travel permission is always a pain in the as# but it can be done.  I remember talking briefly with Gary Bala on the phone about this issue a few years back and he said that in most cases it can be worked out but there's always a risk that it won't. It sounds like you're not willing to take the risk so why don't you do the right thing and let your backup plan (woman from Medellin) go.

I think dating a lot of women before becoming novios is a great idea, just dont put the cart before the horse.

[mudd]

... in response to Having your cake and eating too, posted by Cali James on Oct 8, 2005


I couldn’t have said it better myself.

just a thought here, if a girl who has a child, is looking to marry a foreigner, should she already have custody of the child before dating a foreigner, so they wont have to deal with the EX not giving up custody. Let’s face it, if a Colombian guy, who doesn’t have any interest in the child, hasn’t contributed financially either, but knows the mother is going to marry a foreigner, he now knows he has leverage, and will try to put a stop to it, either for a financial gain, or just to show he can.

I think I would ask any girl with a child, if she has full custody before going forward, would save a lot of time and heartache.

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Having your cake and eating too, posted by mudd on Oct 8, 2005

Full custody does not mean that you still do not need the fathers permision EVERY TIME the kid leaves the country.
To take that right away from a father is very difficult to do.
So best to hase a father who is no problem or on board on ther situiation which you probably do not now what he will do.A very stuborn father who has had some involvement in the child life csan basically stop you from EVERRVgetting thec kid out of the country.Its often  crap shoot,you head forth hoping to have it work out not knowing if it will.
In some you know up front it will not work.The father5 of onec son I know tells the mothrer "you will never get that kid out of the country".He is A CALI cop.Says I will have my friends in immigration looking at it.Dame women agree to live 9 months north if she csn live 3 months in Cali.Then they go to San SAndreas on a thre day package and retun in one day because everthing goes to hell as soon as she leaves.
DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE POTENTIAL PROBLEMS HERE,the kid may never get out of the country and the mothrer might not leave without him.
I know,my first trip back to Cali with my step son we get held up for 12 extra days getting him out of the country because my ex has lied to the father about why they were leaving and lied to me about what she told him signature is required EVERY TIME the kid leaves the country.

Pete