Refugees being relocated

[stefang]

... in response to Re: Re: Can Man build a levee and/or sea..., posted by pablo on Sep 5, 2005

The levees need building to support the oil industry. With 25% of our usage coming from NOLA region we have no choice. Now re building the homes is a different matter hopefully most of these people won't go back. Maybe NO will become more of an oil hub for the Gulf.

[OkieMan]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Can Man build a levee and/or..., posted by stefang on Sep 5, 2005

Stefang,

I do not claim to be any kind of expert on this subject; but that is basically what I was saying earlier.  The ports are incredibly important, and we must have them up and running at full capacity soon.  But, housing people in that fish bowl is another thing entirely.  I hope the so-called experts have learned some valuable lessons here, so that whatever is done, and in whatever way New Orleans is rebuilt; it will be better than before, and administated in a more professional manner.  That may just wishful thinking on my part, however, I think this country, and that area can indeed learn som valuable and important lessons here.  Also, the old, junky, sub-standard buildings and housing can just be demolished and the area cleaned up; so that whoever rebuilds in those areas will have something to look forward to-- not just more depressing ghettos.  If our country will use this great mass exodus and dispersion right; the former residents of New Orleans that have been evacuated can find new homes in new states.(At least the ones that have not been able to get out of their poverty so far).  But, if we allow them to just remain ignorant and poor, then we will allow that poverty and state of mind to be perpetuated into the next generations.  Now, that would be a hugh mistake in my opinion!
We can bring some good out of this tragedy.  I know that some of the people evacuated to here in Oklahoma have stated that they will probably stay.  Well, then they need to get jobs here, and contribute to our society.  Now, I realize that some already are; but I also realize that many of these people that just stayed until it was too late and were supposedly too poor to leave.  Well, as sad as all that is, now they are out.  Now, they have new opportunities. I saw on the news that there are estimates that everyone of the 48 states on our continent will end up with some of these refugees-- kind of like the Vietnamese boat people in the '70s; except that these people are americans. A great deal of those Vietnamese people became citizens, and  learned english and got better educated.  Some have went on to become professionals like doctors, etc, and lead very productive lives. But, most of these particular americans from the Gulf States are minorities (mostly black) and have been living in igorance and poverty for many generations, and that is just unacceptable.  It's time our government uses this as a great social opportunity for change.  I hope that the many states across our great land will help in that effort.  It needs to be more of a grass roots effort, and not just left to the federal government.  In my mind, that has been one of the root causes of this whole mess.  Those people have come to believe that the government will take care of them, which is socialism at it's worst!  The old "cradle to the grave" philosophy that has permeated Europe for many years!

                             OkieMan

[Ray]

... in response to Refugees being relocated, posted by OkieMan on Sep 4, 2005

[This message has been edited by Ray]

San Diego has notified the Feds that they are ready to accept refugees immediately, but for some reason the government seems reluctant to lose control of these people just yet.

A chartered plane arrived in San Diego this afternoon with 50 refugees from New Orleans. A local businessman, David Perez, took it upon himself to fly medical supplies and doctors to Louisiana at his own expense. Then he chartered some planes and went around to the shelters and churches in Baton Rouge asking for volunteers to relocate. He got 50 volunteers so far for San Diego and flew them in on a 737 at a cost of $84,000 for the flight. So far, he said he has spent over a quarter-million on storm relief and he is prepared to spend a lot more.

He told the folks that volunteered to come to San Diego, that he would pay for them to relocate back to Louisiana whenever they wanted. A lot of them have already gotten job offers here and others are offering them housing, cars, etc., if they decide to stay. For now, the Red Cross is putting them up in a temporary shelter.

For some reason, FEMA is pissed at this guy for taking matters into his own hands. Huh? Maybe they are afraid that he will make them look bad in comparison? :-)

Ray

[Pete E]

... in response to San Diego, posted by Ray on Sep 4, 2005

They pulled out the rescue boats because of a few  gun shots about last Wednesday.
Emergency situations and entrenched stupid beasuracracy don't go well together.Kick some butts and roll some heads that are up some beasuracratic asses.
These guys need ovedrhauled from the top down.MAYBE APPOINT A SUCCESSFULL BUSINESS MAN TO HEAD IT,NOT A LIFE LONG BEUARACRAT???

Pete

[Dan Las Vegas]

... in response to FEMA is a beauracratic JOKE, posted by Pete E on Sep 5, 2005

While I have to agree with the group regarding the actions of Fema during the current catastrophe, I lived in the san Fernando Valley of Los Angeles during the time of the Northridge Earthquake. I lost my home and all my possesions at that time and Fema was quite helpful to me and many other people. They were there with 48 hours of the quake and had everything organized, tent citys were put up in local parks to house those people whose homes were destroyed and provided food etc to us.

While one cannot compare the two tragedies in scope as Katrina was far larger of a event, I'm still furious at the lack of aid to the victims of the hurricane. If we can put a man on the mooon, defeat Iraq twice in 12 years, why can't we help our own citizens and provide for them in their time of need? How many people survived the hurricane only to die of lack of food, water or drowning.

It is hard to believe that Fema is the same agency!!! I think that the president needs to make a major change and heads should roll as a result of this debacle.

[Edge]

... in response to Re: FEMA is a beauracratic JOKE, posted by Dan Las Vegas on Sep 5, 2005

Well said post Dan.  

It is hard to believe that Fema is the same agency!!!

It is not the same agency.  It used to have cabinet level status as an independent agency. Someone had the bright idea (Bush, Rove?) to combine it, along with 17 other agencies, into the Dept. of Homeland Security, where it's importance was downgraded.

[Ray]

... in response to Re: Re: FEMA is a beauracratic JOKE, posted by Edge on Sep 5, 2005

When they put it into the same bucket with the INS, some of the shit was bound to rub off... :-)

[stefang]

... in response to FEMA is a beauracratic JOKE, posted by Pete E on Sep 5, 2005

Here is the appointee http://www.fema.gov/about/bios/brown.shtm

Browns prior experience http://business.bostonherald.com/businessNews/view.bg?articleid=100857

The only worthwhile government services in NOLA this past week was the US Coast Guard. They saved a lot of people and I have always felt they are our best division.
Coast Guard and Firefighters deserve high recongnition unfortunately they are sometimes the first to see cuts.

[Edge]

... in response to Re: FEMA is a beauracratic JOKE, posted by stefang on Sep 5, 2005

From the local paper:  Brown's ticket to FEMA was Joe Allbaugh, President Bush's 2000 campaign manager and an old friend of Brown's in Oklahoma.  Brown told several horse association officials that if Bush were elected, he'd be in line for a good job.

[OkieMan]

... in response to Re: Re: FEMA is a beauracratic JOKE, posted by Edge on Sep 5, 2005

Edge,

You are right, but I suspect that there will be more tinkering with how FEMA is handled after the problems they are having. Managing the Dept of Homeland Security is proving to be a monumental task, and will have to be refined.  Having said that, this one Hurricane  situation has more twists and turns then the Mississippi River.  But, maybe, just maybe the local, state and federal government agencies will learn to work together better-- one can hope!!  After all, the federal government is not the only government involved.  But, to listen to the media coverage concerning this, FEMA and Bush must shoulder the bulk of the blame.  I'm sorry, but I just don't see it that way.  When a tragedy like this happens, or better yet, before it happens; the local and state governments need to do a better job of preparing and taking care of their own.  Then, along with that, they coordinate their efforts with the appropriate federal agencies.  The idiot mayor of New Orleans just started pointing fingers at Bush, and wanted to be bailed out!  That is the wrong approach to take, in my opinion.  I think that guy is incompetant, and hopefully the people of New Orleans will elect someone else at the appropriate time.

                              OkieMan

                          OkieMan

[Edge]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: FEMA is a beauracratic JOKE, posted by OkieMan on Sep 5, 2005

[This message has been edited by Edge]

OkieMan - I hear what you are saying and I definitely respect your opinion.

I just cannot bring myself to blame the victim(s) in this trajedy and I consider the Mayor a victim also.  I just do not believe he had the resources available to deal with a natural disaster of this magnitude, nor did the State.  If I was in his shoes I would have probably been more of a thorn in Bush's side if I was actually witnessing the most vulnerable members of my city going under.  I actually think he showed forbearance when Bush actually did arrive.  I have heard that Bush was shielded and not shown the worst areas.  I saw an interview with the Mayor after Bush had met with him.  Bush asked him to "tell me the Truth, tell me exactly how it is."  Bush actually allowed the guy to have his first shower in 5 days aboard his plane.

I am actually sympathetic to Bush in some regards for how this was handled.  I believe that he was strangely detached at first, almost like he was not being fed correct information about the gravity of the situation.  I believe when he actually started to learn how bad it was, that he got angry.  I believe he has surrounded himself with fawning sycophants who told him everything was going just fine, when in reality, it was just the opposite.  He needs to take responsibility for the people who work for him.  I think his heart is in the right place once he realized what was going on but for some days there was a clear vaccum of leadership.

I really hope they examine in detail what went wrong here so we can learn from the mistakes made and more readily plan for the next disaster.  Bush will more than likely come under some criticism and I liked when he admitted that "they could have done a better job".  I hope he will stand up and take his medicine like a man and not try to spin it away.  One aspect of Bush's character that troubles me is his inablility to admit that he can make a mistake.  When you become President you just do not suddenly morph into an omniscient being that makes all the right decisions at the right time.  Maybe he feels the office of President will somehow be diminished.

I would really like to know why the National Guard was not on-site right away to restore order?  There seemed to be plenty of press coverage so I kept wondering, if they can be there, where are the troops to restore order?  I have heard that Bush did not declare a full blown National Emergency right away that would have triggered dispatching the National Guard.  But that seems to me to be something that State would do. But I admit, I am ignorant of the exact protocol that needs to be followed.  I do know the President carries the big stick.  If he were to bring to bear the full brunt of our national emergency resources and not take no for an answer, maybe some of this suffering would have been lessened.

What I do know is I hope to never again see the most vulnerable members of our society, the children, the elderly, 9 month pregnant women, the diebetics, the sick in the hospitals die waiting for help.

It has been my privilege to live 50 years in this great country and I believe we can do a better job responding when a disaster like this strikes.  We are starting to hear the good stories about how these victims are being welcomed in other states to start new lives after losing everything.  Hats off to Texas and other states for the help they are providing and hats off to all the rescue work still going on.

[OkieMan]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: FEMA is a beauracratic J..., posted by Edge on Sep 6, 2005

Edge,

Well, there is certainly enough blame to go around.  But, I am referring to the poor preparation and administration from the local and state officials of Louisiana.  For instance, the news cameras have shown that there were many school buses that were just left where they were parked, and are now flooded-- and probably ruined.  Why could the city of New Orleans not use some or all of those buses to help with the evacuation?  They had plenty of advanced notice?  I think they all were thinking that the Hurricane would not be as bad as it was, or that it would somehow miss them.  Of course, as I have said; hindsight is always 20/20.  But, the mayor had no prior political experience, so I think he was way over his head.  Unfortunately, he wants to blame everyone but himself.  Also, I have noticed that the Democratic Governor of Louisiana, Mrs. Blanco is quick to blame the Bush administration for many of the problems.  However, Haley Barbour, the Republican Governor of Mississippi has been far more helpful to his people (based on what I can see); and he is not throwing around the blame.  I just see a different attitude.  But, anyway you see it, this is the greatest natural disaster of our time!

                             OkieMan

[Edge]

... in response to FEMA is a beauracratic JOKE, posted by Pete E on Sep 5, 2005

[This message has been edited by Edge]

For 9 years Michael D. Brown was a commissioner for the local Arabian Horse Association here in the Denver area prior to landing a job with the Bush Administration.  His qualifications for running FEMA?  He was a crony of Bush's first campaign director.

I liked where both he and Chertoff actually started BLAMING the Katrina victims because they had not left N.O.  The feeling I had from listening to both of these bozos is that they did not want to be bothered.  Listening between the lines to Chertoff I felt he was saying the job was just too big for him to handle.

I think they should both resign and bring in someone who actually has a passion for the job and wants and considers it their job to rescue and PROTECT ALL Americans.  

A business man at least knows who his customers are and if he is a good business man, he will respond accordingly.

These people in N.O. were not your typical GOP customers.  If this had been Texas that had gotten hit, you would have seen Bush move heaven and earth to protect his base.

[stefang]

... in response to Re: FEMA is a beauracratic JOKE, posted by Edge on Sep 5, 2005

But you are blaming like a Liberal and Bush is unwilling to accept any blame as a Replublican. We really need to wake up and start hiring independents to run our country. Ross Perot has hit the nail on the head. He predicted a lot of things that have come true.

[OkieMan]

... in response to San Diego, posted by Ray on Sep 4, 2005

Ray,

That is a very interesting story.  This business man must be very wealthy, as well as generous.  I am sure all of us will hear many more human interest stories as time goes on.  It seems that tragedies like this bring out the best and the worst in people.  God Bless this man of at least trying.  I certainly wish I had more resources so that I could personally help more.  Thanks again for your story.

                             OkieMan