Visit Report, Part3

[Brazilophile]

"And now you are whining because you got a negative response to your obvious attempt to start another flame war? YOU are the one trying to “sully the rest of us”. Now why don’t YOU put it back in YOUR pants and tell your story without the petty insults thrown in? Do you think you can do that?

Thanks,

Ray"

No, Ray, I cannot.  When you guys, specifically, Heat, distort my story and then insult and degrade me based on the distortion, I will point it out to the list.  The example in question is Heat's claim that I am asking my fiancee to wear hand me downs.  He is completely ignoring what I wrote, which was that she ASKED to go to these stores and we went AFTER we had been to the major retailers.  That is a perfect example of sullying the list.

Why do you feel that you can insult others but others cannot insult you?  Are you special?!?!?  Are you privileged?!?!?!  Are you superior to all others on this list?!?!?!?   I do not recognize or acknowlege you privilege and superority!  If do not like being insulted then STOP INSULTING OTHERS!!!!!

I thank those, such as Tx2, for their positive posts and those of you who read my posts and refrained from making negative responses.

Continuing with my story ...

We spent several days doing touristy things.  We spent an afternoon in Miami Beach looking at the Art Deco buildings, strolling along Lincoln Road mall, and along Ocean Drive (South Beach) checking out the restaurants, the clubs, the hotels, and the Gianni Versace mansion.  We went to the Bayside Mall and took pictures of the Hard Rock Cafe guitar and of the AA arena.  We also went to the Brazilian Cultural Center in the Brazilian Consulate to get information n the Brazilian community if South Florida (SF).  The lady there could only help us a little, but the newspapers there for the SF Brazilian community helped is a great deal.

From the advertisements in those papers, we learned that the SF Brazilian community is concentrated between Atlantic Blvd. and Sample Road (Pompano Beach and Deerfield Beach) in Broward county.  We went to that area and visited an English school that caters to Brazilians, a Brazilian restaurant, and Sample Square shopping center which has many stores owned by and catering to Brazilians.  My fiancee found it very interestng and informative to speak with Brazilians who lived here.

The most noreworthy part of our exploration of the SF Brazilian community was our visit to a Brazilian church.  I am not religious but my fiancee is very religious.  She didn't want to stay away from worship for her entire trip and found a service to attend in one of the Brazilian newspapers.  We attended a week-night service from 8-10.  I was quite impressed by the experience.  We were greeted very warmly by the staff.  The congregation was quite diverse. There were older, younger, and middle-aged worshipers.  While the majority were White, many worshipers were mulatto, Black, or Indian.  

The service was similar to what I had seen in Brazil but not the same.  Several songs with religious themes (not hymns) were sung during the first 30-40 minutes.  This church had a band and singers leading the songs, and there were 2 video screens scrolling the lyrics (in Portuguese).  The guitarist (also the lead singer) and the keyboardist were very middle-of-the-road and reminded me of the musicians in the TV advertisements for religious music.  The drummer was a completely different story, he was a rocker!  His style and intensity of play reminded me of John Bonham, Neil Peart, Tommy Lee, or Lars Ulrich.  (I am dating myself here.)  He made the music come alive for me and I enjoyed this part of the service, as did everyone else.  The sermon, with a guest pastor, came next and was entirely in Portuguese.  I could only follow half of it.  It seemed to be about our obligations to family and society and how Jesus can guide us and give us strength in meeting those obligations.  The sermon seemed to me to have a very positive and constructive message and did not strike me as one of the "fire and brimstone" "damn the Devil" type of sermons that turn me off.  The evening closed with the home pastor saying a few words and more songs.

After the service, we were invited to return. My fiancee explained the temporary nature of our attendance.  I noticed that there was a great deal of interaction, such as hugging and kissing, among the congregation.  This church was more than just a place of worship, it was also a place for Brazilians to meet each other, socialize, and catch up on news, etc.  The staff made announcements about the events at the church in the upcomng days.  There was activity at this church on a daily basis, not just Sunday.  It was like a community center.  This was the role of the church in my Black community when I was a child.  Religious or not, Blacks in my city went to church functions because it, and the functionswe attended, grounded and centered the entire community.  This church seemed to serve the same role for the Brazilians in SF.  My fiancee greatly enjoyed the evening and said she would be willing to join this church.

This has been said before and I am going to emphasize it again.  Get your wife connected into the local community group of her countrymen.  If one doesn't exist, work with her to create one.  I recommend starting with a church.  Whether you or she are religious or not, the community church serves as a very effective link to her country and as an important buffer between the US and her country.  It is hard to describe, but my fiancee seemed different (in a positive way) as the trip went on.  I know that part of it was her getting more comfortable here after learning about SF and making contact with other Brazilians.  If you are her sole link to the US, you and your marriage will be under tremendous pressure.

[Hoda]

... in response to Visit Report, Part3, posted by Brazilophile on Aug 21, 2005

You're picking up some VERY important things that will make her transition to living here, that much smoother. Nothing can totally replace our ladies home's...but the few culture & spiritual connections that they make here, are priceless. Your ladies experiences mirror much of what my wife went through, her first days here! But unlike your situation, my wife arrived on a marriage visa. Contrary to any belief, you're following the same sucessful path, that those before you have taken. You're educating her to life here & letting her, be herself...

Whether one agrees or disagrees with your politics shouldn't mean a dayyum thing in regards to how you're helping your lady adapt to life here. Everyone here has taken blows of one sort or another. If we ALL can stay focused on what is really important here....

We all can benefit

[Heat]

... in response to Visit Report, Part3, posted by Brazilophile on Aug 21, 2005

You really have a chip on your shoulder.

Being part of the professional victim class has made you a very sad example of humanity.

I predict you will not make two years in your relationship.  Just enough time for her residency.

[Ricardo]

... in response to whining little man....., posted by Heat on Aug 21, 2005

Seems like you're the one with a personal vendetta and a chip on YOUR shoulder!  
Get over it....

[Ray]

... in response to Visit Report, Part3, posted by Brazilophile on Aug 21, 2005

First, if you have something to say to Heat, please do so by responding directly to him like a real man would do. Don’t try to convolute the discussion by implying that I speak for Heat. His opinions are his own.

Well, let me see if I can answer some of your profound questions (LOL).

Brazilophile:  “Why do you feel that you can insult others but others cannot insult you?”

I think you are hallucinating. Did I ever say that? No. I was only responding to YOUR insulting comments (couldn’t keep in their pants…). But if it makes you feel better, then you can insult me all you want as you have continued to insult the members of this forum. I believe that it is YOU who cannot handle a response to your insulting comments. Yes, you’re a whiner!

Brazilophile: “Are you special?!?!?”

No, I’m not special. Did I say I was “special”? Are YOU special? Why so many question marks and exclamation points? Why are you screaming?

Brazilophile: “Are you privileged?!?!?!”

No, I’m not privileged and I have never claimed to be. I think you’re hallucinating again. And what’s with all those ‘?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!’ things again? Do you feel like a victim all the time? Just curious.

Brazilophile: “Are you superior to all others on this list?!?!?!?”

Huh? Whatever gave you that idea? You seem to be the one having the superiority complex around here. You spout your political views on the forum and then cry and whine to the moderators because you are afraid of a negative response to your diatribe. Again, it sounds like YOU think that you can express YOUR opinions but nobody better dare to respond to YOU. Are YOU privileged? (LOL)

Brazilophile:  “I do not recognize or acknowlege you privilege and superority!”

You know what, you don’t recognize it because it isn’t there. It’s a figment of your warped imagination. You’re just insulting me because you have nothing intelligent to say. You’re a hypocrite. But once again, you can insult me all you want if it makes you feel like a big man :-)

Brazilophile: If do not like being insulted then STOP INSULTING OTHERS!!!!!

Wow! Now you FINALLY figured it all out! In every one of your little story episodes, you feel compelled to start it off with some insults to the other members of the forum. Then you cry like a little baby and whine to the moderators to protect you from any response to your insulting comments. So Bra, who is the one here who thinks he is privileged and superior to the rest of us? YOU!

Now continue with your story and your petty insults. And please tone down all those question marks and exclamation points. It only makes you look like an uneducated bozo with a hypertension problem :-)

Ray

[Michael B]

... in response to Questions, Questions, Questions..., posted by Ray on Aug 21, 2005

Actually, if he'd simply start each post right after "Continuing with my story ..." and leave out the preface, it's a pretty good trip report..........don't know why he feels that he has to include the stuff unrelated to the trip and/or how things are working out with the novia.

[Red Clay]

... in response to Visit Report, Part3, posted by Brazilophile on Aug 21, 2005

Nice report,interesting to hear her perspective.

OTOH, my wife was glad to leave behind many aspects of her native culture, the negative ones, she has lukewarm interest in surrounding herself with other Peruvians here in the US. We have a few Peruvian friends, but the last thing she ever wanted to do was to develop a dependency on a group of her own countrymen after arriving. She thinks that would have actually hurt her ability to adjust as quickly as she did. I suppose she had no choice really, as there aren't many Peruvians near us anyway. Of course in Miami it might be different since so much of the population brought their native cultures and languages with them and have been able to function without much acclimation.

[Brazilophile]

... in response to Re: Visit Report, Part3, posted by Red Clay on Aug 21, 2005

My fiancee has the same attitude.  There are aspects of Brazilian culture that she despises.  At the top of the list is men's attitudes towards women which includes widespread infidelity and the large amount of prostitution in Brazil.  

A close second is the large amount of govermental corruption.  She works in a health department.  Her level is a permanent technical class.  Above her are political appointees.  She sees first-hand how technical know-nothings get jobs from knowing an elected officials and then run the department into the ground by siphoning off department money for personal or political reasons.  The municipality where she works is one of the worst in the country.  More than once, the state has moved to dismiss the municipal officials and take over the department.

That said, she also cherises many aspects of Brazilian life.  She has been to Europe and disliked that culture due to the emotional coldness.  She loves the emotional warmth of Brazilians and the spontaneity of sharing there.  She said Europeans calculate before they decide to share with you (or not).  To a lesser extent she sees similar coldness here in the US.  She doesn't want to be surrounded by that.  Connecting with other Brazilians who share her desire for personal and emotional warmth makes her happy.

[Red Clay]

... in response to Re: Re: Visit Report, Part3, posted by Brazilophile on Aug 21, 2005

Makes sense to me.

[RexB]

... in response to Visit Report, Part3, posted by Brazilophile on Aug 21, 2005

Good post as were your previous ones. It is interesting to know some of these things. Your experience with her "culture awareness" has been a learning experience. As for the negative posts that you receive i would offer this help. All that is gained by your replies is an enabling of their vehement hatred that only fuels the fire of argumentative misinformation. They are baiting you. Be bigger than they are and take pride in the fact that many will learn from your posts. I am new to this forum but not new to the many types of "users" that are out there. You will never change them.
TE AMO PERU TAMBIEN
Rex

[Ray]

... in response to Re: Visit Report, Part3, posted by RexB on Aug 21, 2005

Rex: “They are baiting you”

Yes, you must be new to this forum. Very new! Why don’t you go back to last week and read his “Visit Report, Part 1” again and then try to explain to the rest of us why Brazilophile put this paragraph at the top of his post:

“As a foreward to this series of posts, I must ask Patrick and Hoda to promptly delete any derogatory posts that are directed at me and my posts due to differences in political views. My fiancee's experiences here with me do not have anything to do with politics. We all know to whom I am referring. In the past week or 2 I have noticed a marked decline in the posts by those particular individuals. I hope they remain in lurk mode for this series.”

Now doesn’t that sound like baiting to you? May I suggest that before you choose sides in this or any other argument, you get all the facts straight lest you make yourself appear uninformed and foolish.

Ray

[Brazilophile]

... in response to Re: Visit Report, Part3, posted by RexB on Aug 21, 2005

Rex,

Thank you for your support.  Your suggestion is very mature and in a different medium would be the best course of action.  Here, if one is going to salvage PL, negative destructive speech must be countered with reasoned constructive speech.  Otherwise, readers will stop coming to this list.

For example, a while ago there was a debate over the content of this list and some who disagreed went off to start a new list, World Love College I believe.  

You are correct, one can never change them.  But one must struggle against "them" changing others through distortion and misinformation.

BTW, Welcome to the Planet Love list.

[Keith NC]

... in response to Re: Re: Visit Report, Part3, posted by Brazilophile on Aug 21, 2005

[This message has been edited by Keith NC]

"But one must struggle against them changing others through distortion and misinformation!"

You are full of hate for America and take every opportunity that you can to spew your anti white, anti American views.  You are the one that distorts and is full of misinformation!  Why do you live in this country if you hate it so badly?  There is no greater country in the world than America nor has any other country in this world done more for others than America.  We are not perfect but we are better than the rest.  

Keith

[Ricardo]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Visit Report, Part3, posted by Keith NC on Aug 21, 2005

Keith,
It's time to get your head out of the sand or wherever it is!  You are definitely on a rant - for what purpose I don't know.  Where do you get this idea that he is anti-American?  Oh yeah, I know where,... better start thinking for yourself.  Those guys are already discredited.  Speaking of being full of hate.... which camp are you in?  Start over again, and post something constructive.

[Keith NC]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Visit Report, Part3, posted by Ricardo on Aug 22, 2005

[This message has been edited by Keith NC]

Ricardo,

Where have you been with head up your @#@?  Sounds like you are the one ranting.  I am simply responding to what he has already posted.  Every chance he gets he takes a swipe at this country.

Which guys have been discredited?  Certainly not Ray, Heat and some of the other more sensible guys on this board.