Introduction, and questions about China

[Bueller]

I am currently living and studying in Spain, and later this year I expect to become certified as a professional translator. After becoming certified, I am going to move over to Portugal and learn both forms of Portuguese. Since the first foreign language is always the hardest, I figure I might as well go spend some time in Italy and France as well, and learn those languages. There is not a huge profit potential in translating Italian, but Italian is so beautiful to the ear, and the experience of living there and enjoying the great food coffee, and culture would be quite interesting.
  Recently, I have been kicking around the idea of skipping Italy and France, and going to China to learn Mandarin instead. Given the sheer number of people in China, as well as the market reforms being introduced there, Mandarin is an excellent language to know, and studying there would also tie in with indulging (marriage-wise, not as a "player") the weakness I have always had for Asian women.
  When I first got interested in the whole idea of seeking love overseas, I got pretty excited about the scads of Russian/Ukrainian agencies out there. Then, after joining LWL and RWL, the guys on LWL managed to convince me that the Latin route is better than the FSU route. Since I already knew some Spanish, and Latin America is closer to the U.S., (oh, and the women are gorgeous and sweet!) I decided to pursue that route. A friend was looking in the FSU for a wife, so I took a few trips over there with him, all the while trying to convince him to do LA instead. On our third trip together, I got excited about a girl who had come to meet him, in whom he was not interested, and we corresponded for six months.
  Funny thing, when I first saw her, before we were introduced, I had this strange premonition, based on no objective information, that this was a watershed moment in my life. Was it ever... After a few months of correspondence and phone calls, things seemed to be going well between us, and I started looking around at business opportunities to take advantage of in case I wound up getting married before graduating from college. I had been driving a tour bus for the past five years, but taking off to Alaska for three months at a time is only practical when you're single. Reading a business magazine one day, an article about the growing and reasonably profitable field of translating leapt out at me. It is definitely a good match for my aptitudes and interests, and offers a great flexibility of location. In fact, given that I was becoming a little disenchanted with going to a rural Midwest college where I was at least ten years older than the rest of the students, I began giving serious thought to leaving the college and studying translating instead, if things did not work out with the girl in Ukraine.
  The first week of summer vacation, I went back to Kiev, and immediately found out that this girl was not at all the prize I had thought. I told her to go back to Kharkov alone (kind of blunt, but she was really inconsiderate and disingenuous), and spent the next nine days hanging around Kiev. I posted my tale of woe on the Russian board, and it happens that one guy who posts there is an expat who lives part time in Kiev. We got together for a beer, and I told him the idea I was mulling over regarding translating. He has spent time in many countries, including China, and when I told him about being interested in Latinas and about considering learning Mandarin, he told me in all seriousness that if I got married before going to China, I may well regret it. A month later I met a guy in Minneapolis who is headmaster of a school in northern China. He chuckled about that remark and said, "Yeah, don't take sand to the beach."
  Well, now I am considering China. While my original reason for leaning toward Latinas was based on knowing some Spanish, and on Latin America being close to the United States, now I have a chance to learn Mandarin, and it is not a foregone conclusion that I want to go back to the U.S. to live. If I do, my preferred region would be the area of Washington between Seattle and Vancouver, and Richmond, BC has a huge population of Hong Kong Chinese--a touch of home for a Chinese wife? According to my mileage calculator, Beijing is almost exactly the same distance from Seattle as is Arequipa, Peru, about the midpoint of South America. So aside from an eight hour time zone difference, flying back once a year or whatever would not be too big a deal.
  Recently, a heated discussion has erupted on LWL over whether a man should marry a woman with children. I have been in firm agreement with the camp that says "yes", but the guys who say "no" have raised a couple of interesting points, and have got me thinking about a couple of things. One, that perhaps I should only consider marrying a woman with a child if I can formally adopt the child; after all, if I treat the child as my own and spend tens of thousands of dollars raising him, do I get to sue her for reimbursement if she leaves me? Second, that I would like to adopt at least one child for each biological child I have with my wife. Having children is not at all a selfless endeavor; if I really love children and people in general, I should be willing to take in a child who does not represent a continuation of my personal genes. China seems to be a natural place to adopt, because apparently they are throwing out perfectly good human beings there, ones who are not lucky enough to be born with a penis.
  Last year a friend warned me, if you really like Latinas, be careful about going for the Ukrainian gal. The last thing you want to have happen is to be sitting in a restaurant one day with your wife and have a lovely Latina walk by your table, and think to yourself, darn, I should have... So I've got to go to China, too. As Jim Rohn says: in life, you don't have to do all you find out, but do find out all you can do. I can always go back to Latin America, with no regrets.
  So, are there guys here with experience in China? Recommended cities to live and study Mandarin? Costs of livng? Safety? Warnings? What if I meet Mrs Right and want to take her with me when and if I leave? Does the Chinese government allow it? Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

[chuck]

... in response to Introduction, and questions about China, posted by Bueller on Jan 24, 2001

One thing I would suggest is that if you go to China for the purpose of learning Mandarin, is that you live where Mandarin is the language spoken on the streets.  In my (failed) attempt to learn Mandarin, some friends of mine from Sichuan occasionally lead me astray (inadvertently) in the area of pronunciation.  Chinese is a language full of homophones and near-homophones so it is very easy to say something which you did not intend.  If you want to learn some before you go, decide where you are going first.  I believe that in Taiwan traditional characters are still used (not sure) but that on the mainland simplified characters are used. One thing that I do like is that you don't have to conjugate the verbs.
I don't intend to pass myself off as an expert in this area but my impression is that those from the mainland have some tendency to think of divorce as more acceptable than do Chinese from other parts of Asia.  Again, this is just my impression based on very limited experience.

[Tim]

... in response to Re: Introduction, and questions about Ch..., posted by chuck on Jan 24, 2001

Well, divorce is on the rise in China. I recently read that it is up to about 13% of all marriages now. Also, the government is beginning to enact laws to give more rights to the wives during divorce proceedings.

However, I believe divorce is more prevalent (and accepted) in Taiwan and Hong Kong, since these places are more cosmopolitan than the mainland (with a few exceptions, like Shanghai).

China still has a long way to go compared to North America in terms of divorce rate (hope they don't catch us) and marriage rights (hope they do catch us).

Regards, Tim

[Jeff S]

... in response to Re: Re: Introduction, and questions abou..., posted by Tim on Jan 25, 2001

When I was first traveling to Japan in the late 70's the divorce rate was almost non-existant. Now it's roughly equivalent to the US at nearly 50% When things change, they change fast!

-- Jeff S.

[Tim]

... in response to Divorce rate, posted by Jeff S on Jan 25, 2001

Yeah, there must be some direct relationship between an increased divorce rate and a country developing its economy/raising its standard of living. I have absolutely no statistics to support this, but it seems apparent.

Regards, Tim

[Tim]

... in response to Introduction, and questions about China, posted by Bueller on Jan 24, 2001

My wife is Hong Kong Chinese, so she speaks Cantonese as well as Mandarin. If you target ladies in Guangdong Province (Hong Kong, Guangzhou, Shenzhen) then they are probably going to speak more Cantonese than Mandarin.

The cost of living is quite low in China. The westerners I know who live (or have lived) there usually work as English teachers. They survive quite normally although their salary is meager. On the plus side, if you are a native-English speaker you can usually land a teaching job very easily, even without teaching credentials (or knowing much Mandarin).

I have alot of friends who have married ladies from mainland China. They all seem happy, although you should be warned it is not easy or quick to get a fiancee' visa or spousal visa approved for a lady from the mainland (unlike Hong Kong or Taiwan, where it is relatively quick). The process seems to be (currently) taking about 6-9 months for a K-1 fiancee' visa and over a year for an I-130 Spousal visa. I don't expect that to improve anytime soon. Much of the delay is the vast backlog of the INS here in the USA, but the PRC also requires alot of red-tape (especially concerning passport issuance to a PRC citizen) that bogs things down. Also, only the US consulate in Guangzhou processes visas for mainland wives/fiancees, and this adds to the bottleneck and delays. By all accounts the number of fiancee'/spousal visa petitions at Guangzhou is going steadily up, and the consulate there does not seem able to keep up with the increased volume.

I know one guy who married a local gal while living in Shanghai, and since he has lived there for over 6 months he is eligible to file an I-130 Spousal visa directly with the US consulate in Guangzhou. His special circumstances (longtime residency) allow him to do this without returning to the USA, but even he is suffering a long wait from the consulate there. At least you should be made aware of that option if you meet and marry while inside the PRC.

Good luck if you do visit China. I have been there a few times myself and am yearning to go back again soon. China is a country full of tradition, yet poised for change, and I find it a fascinating place.

Regards, Tim