On-Topic Politics

[Brazilophile]

As the threads below about the London bombings today are well off topic, I expect Hoda to delete them rather soon.  However, political threads can be on topic if they are related to Latinas.  That is my goal for this thread.

In my travels to Latin America, I sometimes have had talks about politics with locals.  There is a wide range of political views among Latinos.  Some are elitist, believe that it is good to have economic power concentrated among a few families, and feel that the military and the government should be geared to maintaining this concentration of power.  Others are populist, believe that it is better to have all forms of power decentralized in their country, and feel that the military and the government should be geared to prevent a concentration of power.  Still others are very nationalist, believe that most of LA's problems are caused by forces outside LA, specifically in the US.  They feel that their country would be better off if US influence could be reduced, ie kick out the IMF, other US banks, big US businesses, etc.  Many Latinos I met seemed to be apolitical but felt that the rest of the world, specifically the us, does things that hurts them and their country.  Many Latinos likely have views that not all of us would agree with.

Therein lie my questions to some of posters here, specifically Heat.

Would any of you let loose the vitriol in the thread below to any Latina you met and liked because the government of, or an extremist group in, the country she lives in does thing or has policies you don't agree with?  Would you call her countrymen barbarians?  Would you disparage Latin culture?  If any of her relatives, a brother say, expressed  anti-US opinions, would you spew a torrent of insults, threats, and pro-US views at him?  In front of her family?  In front of your Latina?   When meeting her family would you focus on all the difference between US and Latin culture, concluding that Latinos and Americans are too different to get along?  

These questions are not academic.  Hugo Chavez of Venezuela is openly hostile to President Bush.  Would you insult and disparage Venezolanas because of Chavez's rhetoric?  Brazil's president, Lula, is not a pal of W.  Does that render Brasileiras not wife material?  Even our neighbor, Mexico, is distancing itself from Bush due to President Fox having been shafted a few times by him.  Are Mexicanas now evil?

Someone said that very few countries supported the US with troops after 9/11.  Does that make those countries our enemies and the people who live there scum?  

For those of you, specifically Heat, who have such strong nationalistic feelings about the US,

WHY ARE LOOKING OUTSIDE THAT U.S. FOR THAT SPECIAL WOMAN WHO WILL BE THE CLOSEST PERSON TO YOU IN YOUR LIFE?

Please answer that last question because I am seriously confused.  As Heat says, I am stupid!

[Malandro]

... in response to On-Topic Politics, posted by Brazilophile on Jul 7, 2005

"They feel that their country would be better off if US influence could be reduced, ie kick out the IMF, other US banks, big US businesses, etc. Many Latinos I met seemed to be apolitical but felt that the rest of the world, specifically the us, does things that hurts them and their country."

there is nothing that prevents developing countries from refusing loans from the IMF or aid from the US.  If it hurts them, why do they accept the money?

Also, I am unaware of a large populist movement in any country in latin america with the philosophy that wants to decentralize power.  On the contrary, populist governments (mostly associated with the left) believe that government must solve all of the problems and therefore seeks to garner control of most aspects of society.  The accumulation of power and oversight invariably results in the repression of dissent and alternative viewpoints.  See Cuba or Venezuela.  

I do not agree with many of the policies of Cuba or Venezuela and I do NOT disparage their people.  There is no cultural or religious indoctrination of their people to despise the US and wage war against the "infidels" simply because they exist.  (there is plenty of political indoctrination though)

On the other hand, it is the very nature of muslim countries to indoctrinate their citizens to adhere to biases against non-muslims.  thus their ingrained culture is in fact open to criticism for its harsh and inflexible doctrines.  Are you telling me that oppression of women in muslim countries should be accepted simply because their culture differs from our own?   they can't even wear bikinis for Allah's sake, what's up with that??

Despite their president, Venezuelans hold no such intolerant and belligerent beliefs.  and in fact, our cultures are much more similar than different.  this cannot be said of the muslim world.  

[utopiacowboy]

... in response to On-Topic Politics, posted by Brazilophile on Jul 7, 2005

My wife and I respect each other and we extend that same respect to each other's countries. While we are aware of the flaws here (US) or there (Colombia) and sometimes discuss them, we don't disparage one another's countries.

[Ray]

... in response to On-Topic Politics, posted by Brazilophile on Jul 7, 2005

I am not agreeing with you that you are stupid, but some of your questions are sure stupid.

“Someone said that very few countries supported the US with troops after 9/11. Does that make those countries our enemies and the people who live there scum?”

What kind of question is that? Because a country supports us by sending troops to Afghanistan or Iraq, do we think they are scum? I give up. What is the correct answer? :-)

[Brazilophile]

... in response to Huh?, posted by Ray on Jul 7, 2005

You are correct.

Restatement:

“Someone said that very few countries supported the US with troops after 9/11. Does that make those countries which didn't support us our enemies and the people who live there scum?”

[david hagar]

... in response to Re: Huh?, posted by Brazilophile on Jul 7, 2005

What many of the countries in the world are failing to realize that this is the beginning of one of the longest wars that this world has ever seen.  They may think that by not helping this country and it's allies, that they may immune from attack. Eventually, many of those countries will also suffer the terroist attacks. This is a global war.

Beattledog

[OkieMan]

... in response to On-Topic Politics, posted by Brazilophile on Jul 7, 2005

Brazilophile,

I will not attempt to speak for anyone else.  However, my views on the topics you brought up are this.  First of all, I think it would be rude and unwise to bring up politics to a latina and her family (early in the relationship); especially if you are seriously trying to get acquainted with her and her family leading into a possible marriage.  Having said that, if the family were bring it up, I would try to be thoughtful, tactful, etc.; but I would also let them know that I am
"proud to be an american, where at least I know I'm free..."  to quote that old Lee Greenwood song.  I would let them know what type of man I am, and as much about my family as I could.  I am not saying that I have all the answers; because so far I have not developed a strong, long-lasting relationship with a latina.  But, at no time will I ever back-off or deny my patriotism for my country.  The same goes for my faith in God.  I will live alone before I will do that.  The good news is, I personally don't think we have to do that.  I know there are many on this board far more experienced than I am concerning relationships with latinas.  But, I cannot imagine that the women want us to turn our backs on the very country that has the freedoms that these other people are trying to immigrate to.  Does that make any sense?  NO!
By the way, I cannot really compare all this to the Middle East nut jobs that are a part of the terrorists groups around the world.  They don't deserve any respect, and I will gladly help them to get to Alluh-- quickly!!!!

                            OkieMan

P.S. The terrorists can forget the 70 virgins or whatever. They are going straight to HELL!!

[Dan Las Vegas]

... in response to Re: On-Topic Politics, posted by OkieMan on Jul 7, 2005

"But, at no time will I ever back-off or deny my patriotism for my country"

God bless you sir, I am proud to stand beside you and proclaim my love of this country!

Dan

[Heat]

... in response to Re: On-Topic Politics, posted by OkieMan on Jul 7, 2005

My girls wants to vote for Bush when she becomes a citizen.  They like real men.  Not Sissy boys

[whome]

... in response to Many Colombianas love America.., posted by Heat on Jul 7, 2005

we dont want no "girly men"!

[OkieMan]

... in response to Many Colombianas love America.., posted by Heat on Jul 7, 2005

Heat,

Sissy Boys or Girlie Men-- I guess they are the same. ha

[Brazilophile]

... in response to Re: On-Topic Politics, posted by OkieMan on Jul 7, 2005

"But, at no time will I ever back-off or deny my patriotism for my country. The same goes for my faith in God. I will live alone before I will do that. "

Thank you for your forthrightness, OKM.  You are showing a great deal of integrity.

[Heat]

... in response to On-Topic Politics, posted by Brazilophile on Jul 7, 2005

First answer as a black man why you are not looking for a black female in the US?

You called me racist before even though my mother was of mixed race.  Even though I have an adopted daughter who is brown.

[Brazilophile]

... in response to You first..Mr. race baiter, posted by Heat on Jul 7, 2005


I am looking for a woman from outside the U.S. and Canada because I do not agree with the dominant value system in these 2 countries.  The women I have met from North America have values that I believe compromise family unity and prevent the raising of children who are well-balanced and have been exposed to a wide variety of knowledge and experiences.  

For example, the emphasis on material accumulation is not what I want to teach my children.  I do not believe success as an a adult is measured exclusively by material wealth.  I meet too many NA women who equate success with material wealth and believe displaying success through material accumulation.

I place a very strong emphasis on education, not just education for putting on a resume to get a high paying job, but also education that transforms a child into not only a good worker, but also a good citizen.  I meet too many women in NA that see education SOLELY as a means to a high paying job.

I want to have the option of relocating to a country in LA, similar to what Pete E. has done.  I feel that some aspects of US society has made it a less than ideal place to raise a family or to retire.  

For example, health care.  Health care in the US has become WAY too expensive and the quality is not better or even worse than in most other developed countries.  Most LA countries have free immunizations for children.  The US does not!  What that mean is that children in lower income communities in the US are more likely to catch childhood diseases (chicken pox, measles, etc.) from other children than are children in lower income communities in LA countries.

I do not expect Social Security to be as beneficial for me when I retire than it is for those currently retired.  I expect the cost of living in the US to sufficiently high for it to be very difficult for me to survive on pension income.  The cost of living in LA countries is sufficiently low that a retired person can survive on a US pension.  By marrying a citizen of a LA country I can apply for residency in that country and prepare for retirement there without many problems.

Other Issue

"You called me racist before even though my mother was of mixed race. Even though I have an adopted daughter who is brown."

No, Heat.  Firstly, I called you racist only in your delusions.  I have never called you racist in any post to PL.  Secondly, The race of your mother, your child, or even you does NOT determine whether you are a racist or not.  It is your BEHAVIOR through your posts to PL that determine whether you are a racist or not.