Frustrations/opportunities?? in Colombia

[Pete E]

Its amazing in Cali,a city of over 2 million the things they do not have,or are very expensive if you can find them.And just the little inconsistencies.Like:
In Exito,one of the biggest supermarkets here,not one single bottle of can of diet sprite or 7 up on the shelf yesterday.I know they have it.Its usually out,but somebody loaded a huge shelf area with everything but.I'm sure they have it in the back.
Cost of things.$3 for a tube of chap stick?$2 minimum for coffee cups?$3 for a dish towel?On and on with little stuff for lots of money.If Wall Mart ever gets here it will eat their lunch,put everybody else out of business.
2,500,000 pesos,over $1000 for a 17 inch flat panel monitor?I paid $400 for mine ,18 months ago in the US.They are about $200-$250 now.
Now to check the real bottom line prices you need to go to El Centro for most things.Its teeming with people. Dirty and maybe a little dangerous.But thats where the deals are.Seems some colombians don't want to mess with it and pay up at the malls.For computer products it Pasarella,a specialty area not too far off Avenida Sexta.If flat panels are even 50% of what they are in the department stores we will be bringing some in.We need to check.Of course its a small group who can afford to pay up for a monitor when a regular one will do.
Lots of other little things.Like 250,000 pesos for a walkman lkie CD player.$20 in the states.
So,because they do certain things SO BADLY here it seems there are some business opportunities.
Also,I had the only good Mexican food I ever had in Colombia last night.Tacos.Made them myself.Just brown some ground beef,brown some corn tortillas,add salsa,cheese,lettuce and tomatoes.How hard can that be and no one can do it here in a restaurant.Same with Fahitas.Oh,if you buy the taco shells pre made,$4 for 12.
The only ingredient I can't buy here is enchalada sauce.And cheddar cheese.Think I will bring some back from the states in July.
The wine here is expensive and alot of it bad to the point of undrinkable.Carlo Rossi at $8 for 5 liters alot better.I saw a 1.5 liter bottle of Carlo Rossi.40,000 pesos,$17.$2.95 in the states.
The chilean wine is mostly good,comparsable to California at about 2 or 3 times the price.
For as tough as it seems here to make money working for somebody else there seems to be damn little creativity in business.
Lots of opportunities? I think so.Lots more than in the states where most any thing you think of someone is doing it.
I see Colombians with money,having those 100,000 pesos diners in the same restaurants as me.Mostly business people In think.Even the top proffesionals would think that alot of money.

Pete

[valuedcustomer]

... in response to Frustrations/opportunities?? in Colombia, posted by Pete E on May 23, 2005

My wife tells me that things are much cheaper in the United States than Colombia.  She can’t believe the prices here.  In Walmart she can get blouses for half the cost of Colombia.  In Dollar Store you get basic stapels for $1.  In Ross she has pointed out several things, for example a pair of designer glasses she bought for $8.  She said the glasses would go for $200 in Colombia.  She in gathering some hard to find things together to ship to her family in Colombia because it is so much cheaper to buy them in the US.

[Jamie]

... in response to Frustrations/opportunities?? in Colombia, posted by Pete E on May 23, 2005

“For as tough as it seems here to make money working for somebody else there seems to be damn little creativity in business.”

You got that right common sense is missing too.

I was renting an office and the yearly office lease was going to expire and I told the guy I was not going to renew I had to find someplace bigger but I would be willing to pay month to month and if he finds anyone before I found what I was looking for I would leave. Well the guy wanted me to pay for another 6 months. Now the vacancy rate had to be about 20% or more in this complex as it may be everywhere and I all ready had a back up office in the same complex and I told him please understand I am not going to negotiate. If you allow me to go month to month I will do so otherwise I will leave when the lease expires. He does not budge wants 6 months upfront for me to stay so I leave and 8 months later the place is still without a tenant.

Engage the Exotic – Latin Women
http://International-Introductions.com

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Frustrations/opportunities?? in Colo..., posted by Jamie on May 23, 2005

Jamie,
They can get so stuck on their way of doing things they can't even think.You made that guy a no lose offer.Maybe he thought you were just bluffing and would do the 6 months.Maybe he can't even think outside his home made little box at all."this is the way we do it." is the excuse for the  dumbest stuff.And much more for employees who have no incentive to think and just want you to go away if you ask for anything at all different.You WOULD THINK an owner would get it.Often not.
Reminds me of a comment about Saddam Housein in the gulf war."A brinksman who doesn't know where the brink is."
The guy might have been proud of himself for standing his ground.You would think looking at that empty office a little bell would go off in his head EVENTUALLY.
I think the other thought process here is its better to make no deal than a bad deal.Then they carry that to extreme.

Pete

[CelticUrge]

... in response to Frustrations/opportunities?? in Colombia, posted by Pete E on May 23, 2005

Re: your comment about Wal-Mart in Colombia

Look for a retailer named Carrefour. I know they are in Bogota. Have been in at least one location in the south side of Bogota many times. If I had a map I could show you where it is located. Large store with much better selection than others in the city. The registers are quite obviously ringing constantly. Hypermarket concept. Carry food, bath, kitchen, liquor, appliances, electronics, etc. The concept appears to be quite successful to me and I assume the store is expanding to additional locations. French company. Locations in Bogota (9), Ibaque, Cali (2), Pererra, Antioquia (3) and Barranquilla. Also in Brazil, Argentina (31 countries total). In Cali look at Valle de Lili and Cali Chipichape. There are many business opportunities in Colombia.

[BogotaJim]

... in response to Re: Frustrations/opportunities?? in Colo..., posted by CelticUrge on May 23, 2005

I am sorry but I can't stop laughing over your statement "there are many business opportunities in Colombia " I thought the same thing when I first arrived in Bogota in 1990 but boy did I have a lot to learn.  Everything was disorganized and inefficient and not at all like our competitive society.  So many wealthy families sent their children to the US where they got a good education at our top universities and it amazed me that when they returned to Colombia they were unable to use what they had learned in the US to change for the better the life in Colombia and eventually in sunk in to me that those people in power  don't want change in any of these countries as they are making too much money the way things are.  They make it extremely difficult for an outsider to get into business- more hoops to jump through than you can possibly imagine.  I own a small hotel and pay 34 different taxes every year to the government.  A nearby hotel with 90 rooms has 15 full time accountants - can you imagine that.  Before you start any business there better do a lot of homework as there are so many surprises.

[CelticUrge]

... in response to Re: Re: Frustrations/opportunities?? in ..., posted by BogotaJim on May 24, 2005

I see your amusement. Jim, I would never enter into a business in a foreign country without a native partner. I say never, but you know how often that can be ignored even if it is your own rule. Anyway, it's probably even better if the native partner is in control, or at least appears to be. What I was looking at previously was using the manufacturing already in place to export to the U.S. to fill a niche not well addressed here. Unfortunately, I did not have the time to run the "new" business in the U.S. and continue what I am head deep in already.

There are always going to be those in power who do not want to make changes. Example, in the US we will still be totally dependent on oil in 20 years. My prediction. There are too many large corporations making enormous profits from this now. They will never step aside for an alternative fuel option to come along and better serve the people and environment. Think about the exploration, refining, distribution, auto manufacturers, parts, etc. All would be turned inside out. Same in Colombia. Think the auto manufacturers really want me to have an SUV that gets better gas mileage or needs fewer repairs? No lo creo!

The better way is to identify a niche and use those systems and people already in place to fill that void. Example, as I recall Compaq (now HP) and Dell are selling very effectively in Colombia. For another company to come along, say Fujitsu, they can either go head to head, or use the same distributors, sales force or whatever is presently in place. Doesn't work if they are employees of Dell, etc. By the way, computer consultant close friend's favorite quote "Friends don't let friends buy Dell". Point is they have great customer service because they need it. He works on new and almost new Dell's all the time. Even with warranty and free replacement parts the customer/end user often does not understand how to do the job.

If the flat screen costs $1000 in Colombia and $300 here, perhaps there is a reason for it. Track it down, solve it and offer it up for half the price. Consumers will buy from you and not the other guy.

How about opening a restaurant in "The Park at 93" that actually has both good food and good service. Would this catch the attention of the local public that is used to rather lax service and being ignored most of the time? Some of the restaurants I have visited in Bogota, like Carbon de Palo (spelling?), did have good service, but for the most part they pale in comparison to restaurants in the U.S.

Who made the comment about going month to month rent in an office space? Anyway, buy a few of these centers and change the rules to increase your occupancy rates. A jump of only 5 or 10 percent occupancy can mean quite a lot with the annual bottom line profits.

Solicit similar businesses to all move to the same center where they attract similar customers or patients. Have a casual contact here in Houston that just put together about 5 medical practices in the same office space for long tern lease. I don't recall the specifics of what each practice was all about but they agreed to it and signed on as a great idea for business.

I agree with you. Starting a business is no simple matter. There will always be surprises if you don't do the necessary research and background to figure it out. I do think there are opportunities but really can't be too specific since it has now been two years since my last trip. Plan to start travelling down there again soon. I may also come to the conclusion that I'm wrong after a few trips and learning experiences. I guess I just tend to see the glass half full not half empty.

Oh, where is your hotel? Appeal to local or gringos? How is the hotel biz in Bogota? All or many of the newby's play it safe and stay at an agency hotel or something large. I have been in several and never felt uncomfortable, although I do admit that I have concerns about leaving much in the room. Used safe in main office several times.

Regards from Houston. Just starting to get hot. Late this year.

[BogotaJim]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Frustrations/opportunities??..., posted by CelticUrge on May 24, 2005

I have also purchased commercial  real estate in Costa Rica  and for now I am opposed to brick and mortar as pertains to busines activity. If you are looking to find an honest local person to partner with you will be looking for a loooooong time. I would pursue marketing the flat screen tvs etc on the internet and shipping direct to the buyer in Bogota ?  Maybe I am missing something but this seems like a good opportunity.  I would be interested in a joint venture if you have any good ideas - I am always looking for someone with energy.  Buenas suerte !

[CelticUrge]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Frustrations/opportuniti..., posted by BogotaJim on May 24, 2005

Thanks Jim. Do you live in Bogota? I'll look you up whenever I get down there again. Already have two contacts that I have known for years and trust them both.

Your contact information? Can you have the moderator send us each others email address. With all that I have seen, don't desire to make it public on the forum.

Regards.

[BogotaJim]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Frustrations/opportu..., posted by CelticUrge on May 24, 2005

I would like to continue discussions re business opportunities but I am new to the list and don't know as yet how to get things done.  You can e-mail me at "info@latinlifemates.com" and we can talk offline.

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Re: Frustrations/opportunities?? in ..., posted by BogotaJim on May 24, 2005

Jim,
I think there are lots of opportunities,but as you describe lots of obstacles.It would be just about impossible without a Colombian working with you.
I am sure I am just starting to understand all the complexities of business here.
I think there are lots of little empires being protected.
All of course to the huge disadvantage of the average Colombian for who competition and ease of business practices would result in lower prices for what they buy.
Colombia won't even consider used cars for instance.Its not even on the table in any negotiations.One Colombian even said they don't want any junk.Junk is what they already have,trying to keep all those old old cars running.Cars they would pay 5,000,000 pesos for are getting junked  in the US.Every one of those little box Renaults would be history in the US.And about 25% of the taxis on the road.You can buy better cars for almost nothing in the US.

Pete

[maggiemtnman]

... in response to Re: Re: Frustrations/opportunities?? in ..., posted by BogotaJim on May 24, 2005

Jim, can you tell us a little about the 34 taxes? I recently bought pre construction condos in Cali and plan to rent them ... Will I be paying some of these 34 taxes? Thanks

[BogotaJim]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Frustrations/opportunities??..., posted by maggiemtnman on May 24, 2005

I think most all the taxes are unique to the hotel industry as most owners supposedly have deep pockets.  My accountant tallied up all the taxes for me as I was disappointed with the bottom line.  Since you are into residential I suspect the taxes will be reasonable.  I think real estate prices in Colombia will soon be going up as more Colombians sell their Florida real estate and move home ( that is if Uribe is re-elected )  Many professional people from Bogota have already done this and more will follow.

[maggiemtnman]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Frustrations/opportuniti..., posted by BogotaJim on May 24, 2005

Thanks for the info Jim. I live in Coral Springs, FL and there are many Colombians in south Florida as you know. The price of homes has increased in double digits for the last three years which is insane. I agree with you about what Uribe is doing. I think that he will get re-elected... I hope that he does not get assasinated. I can see the home sick Colombians selling in south Florida and taking all that cash and buying real estate in Colombia. My belief about the impending grwoth in Colombia is making me buy condos in Cali. I think that it will also improve your business because the word is going to get out that Colombia is safe (if you don't do something stupid) and this will bring more gringos looking for a good wife ...

[Throw]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Frustrations/opportu..., posted by maggiemtnman on May 24, 2005

n/a