Question: Colombianas and English

[fingaroll44]

Hello all. I have a question about colombianas and studying english? What is this myth about it costing alot of money for colombians to learn english? I have been teaching myself spanish for the past 2 years. I am not proficient by any stretch. I have traveled to Mexico, Spain, Aruba and the Dominican Republic. I have had conversations with non-english speakers. They accept my bad spanish and are thrilled to assist me. I have rented cars driven around got lost asked for directions. Talked to women in discos, ordered food, drink, and negotiated prices with certain women of the carnal professions. What I am getting at is that, I HAVE MADE A CONCENTRATED EFFORT TO LEARN THEIR LANGUAGE. The cost? A few dollars for a dictionary. The rest of my education has been using the internet extensively and going to the library. Do they have libraries in Colombia? I have been chatting on the internet with several colombianas over the past 2 years. The majority are attending various universities. I have asked them why have they not learned any english? They all say that it is expensive to go to class. I tell them why not go to the library and check out a book? Why not search the internet for free sites that offer translation? I get silence. I told them very frankly that I could not understand how you can attend a 4 year university and not learn english. The economic situation is not going to get better in Colombia anytime soon, if ever. There is a reason gentlemen that Colombia and similar countries will always be THIRD WORLD? They have a civil war that they have been fighting for what 30 or 40 YEARS? What good is a colombian degree in the united states without knowing any English? Hmmmm lets see can we all join in and say WORTHLESS. I told them there first priority should be to learn to read and write english. They don't have to be proficient just know enough to get by. Fill out a job application. Smile alot and look cute. If they want to improve there living conditions and have a better life this should be paramount. I told them that the United States is not paved in goal. There are many jobless americans and the kind of jobs many fresh off the plane foreigners no english speakers have to look forward to is cleaning a toilet. I told them to aim high and work hard for it. Now mind you I said this 2 YEARS AGO. There english has not passed the, "Hello how are you?", stage. They want American boyfriends and husbands but I really believe they just want a free ride to a dream that does not exist? What do you guys think? Are they lazy?

[Ricardo]

... in response to Question: Colombianas and English, posted by fingaroll44 on Apr 22, 2005

For many of the ladies you will meet in agencies, and tours, there is simply nothing in it for them.  Learning english, from their perspective, will not make a significant difference in their life.  Given the precarious employment situation in Colombia and other coutries in the region, you would be hard-pressed to find many latinas believing english skills will improve prospects of finding work, etc. - unless you consider Bogota.  A professional women, ie. with a univiersity education or post-secondary, is more likely to be interested in learning enlish as a way of persoanl and professional advancement.  Plus Bogota is much more of a cosmopolitan city and English is more likely to be heard and spoken.  My experience is a much higher percentage of ladies with English skills (and/or interest in learning) in Bogota.  I don't think it's laziness, just maybe what they (latinas) see as being realistic, never mind the cost.

[utopiacowboy]

... in response to Re: Question: Colombianas and English, posted by Ricardo on Apr 23, 2005

n/t

[Seeker]

... in response to Question: Colombianas and English, posted by fingaroll44 on Apr 22, 2005

Are you lazy or just content with your quite limited proficiency in English? Don’t you know that the following proper nouns are capitalized: Colombianas, English and Spanish. Do you have an English dictionary? If so, then you could teach yourself that “alot” should be written as two words, e.g. “My post contains a lot of bullshit.”  “I have a question about colombianas and studying english?” is not really a question; rather, it is a declarative sentence and ought to have a period instead of a question mark.  

I’m impressed that in your travels to Mexico, Spain and the Dominican Republic you were able to have conversations with “non-english speakers.” Don’t them folk’ up thir speek inglish two?

You wrote: “I have rented cars driven around got lost asked for directions.” Thanks for clarifying that you indeed, drove around in the cars you rented. Otherwise, I might have thought that in your case, you parked your rental on the curb and then took taxis to practice your Spanish while picking up “certain women of the carnal professions.” Don’t you know that a series of three or more elements are separated with commas? You should have had a conjunction between the last two elements of your series. Your sentence also displays shifts in tense which is a common challenge for most EL’s (English Learners), so don’t feel too bad.

“There english has not passed the, "Hello how are you?", stage.” Did you ever learn about homophones?  Homophones are words that sound exactly the same, but have different meanings. An example would be “there” and “their.”  In the above sentence, you should have used “their,” not “there.” You might want to look these words up in your English dictionary, once you purchase it.

Lastly, let me say that your entire post is riddled with stupidities that underscore your ignorance and arrogance. You are a self-proclaimed righteous a-hole. Your argument is an excellent example of why Americans are often despised in many parts of the world. Please keep your mouth shut until you enroll your lazy ass in an E.S.L. program at a community college. You may discover that English is a challenging language and mastering it is no simple task.

[thundernco]

... in response to Brilliant Example of American Stupidity!, posted by Seeker on Apr 23, 2005

Now you know why I was laughing so hard.  The guy will need all the help he can get. -TNC

[Dr Aaron]

... in response to Question: Colombianas and English, posted by fingaroll44 on Apr 22, 2005

It all depends on the character of the ladies. No one is the same.

For example, I met a 34 year old woman who is very stunning, she speaks French, English, and Spanish fluently.

She's from Cali, and doesn't look older than 25. She's beautiful.

Do you think you have enough class to date her?

Aaron

[Patrick]

... in response to Question: Colombianas and English, posted by fingaroll44 on Apr 22, 2005

"I told them to aim high and work hard for it. Now mind you I said this 2 YEARS AGO. Their English has not passed the, 'Hello how are you?', stage."

Who is this "them" that you are referring to?  All Colombian women, or a couple that you've been involved with?

Your mention of boob jobs and P4P makes me think you've stuck in the nice piece of ass mode instead of looking for character.  Well, those boob jobs are going to make it far easier for the women to ride someone to America than learning English.  Men who look for the hottest piece of ass they can find generally don't care about superficial things like the ability to communicate and I suspect being a hot piece of ass is a more sure way of succeeding for them due to the preponderance of men who think with the head in their pants.

If you want to find success, I suggest you start looking at women with character.  A little hint-  Smart, motivated women generally (but not always) aren't the hot young pieces of ass in mini skirts with their tits popping out.

[lapentier]

... in response to Re: Question: Colombianas and English, posted by Patrick on Apr 22, 2005

Patrick, your message was a little blunt, but well put.  

Spanish speakers should not have THAT much trouble learning English.  Yes, English is somewhat more difficult to pronounce, however English grammar and practical usage is much simpler than Spanish. The difficulties in our language are mainly in conforming to proper style and usage, not in the very act of trying to be understood.

Even though it is not my major subject, I spend two hours of each school day teaching English to Hispanic secondary students. In general, I have found the number one predictor of success in learning English is the student's proficiency in Spanish.  If I were a betting man, I would lay odds that the same women he says can't learn English spent their school age years either not attending classes properly, or when they were there, spent their time "goofing off", writing notes instead of taking notes, or just didn't bother to do their tarea...

Remember, fluency does not necessarily indicate mastery.  For proof of that, just turn on the boob-tube, and watch a few minutes of a show such as Jerry Springer or Maury, etc.  I do understand some people have learning disabilities, but in general, if she has not bothered to master Spanish, her native tongue, how can she hope to possibly master English?

Mark

P.S.  If you look hard enough, you can probably find punctuation and grammar errors, even in this post; and I have a few years of post-secondary education...

[OkieMan]

... in response to blunt, but well said..., posted by lapentier on Apr 23, 2005

Lapentier,

I enjoyed your post.  I thought it was interesting that you teach english to hispanic children.  Do you ever tutor hispanic adults?  Since you are from Wichita, I am curious about the hispanic population there.  I lived in Wichita for a short time, back in the late 70's.  Not many Mexicans or other hispanics there at that time.  But, I am just south a ways of you, in the Tulsa area.  We have 3 or 4 times the Mexicans we used to have.  Most of them are very hard workers.  I do business in public schools and I have seen a dramatic jump in the hispanic population of the schools.  Many years ago, when I was married to an american woman, I never thought I would be into the latinas.  But, having said that, I was always attracted to them. Next month I will flying to Cali to meet a lady I have been corresponding with.  I hope that she and I can have an enjoyable time together. But, it will be interesting because I know very little spanish, at this time.  She does not speak english.  But, we are both trying to learn the other language so we can bridge the gap.  This is a process for all of us, one way or the other.  You are very fortunate that you are already fluent in spanish.

                             OkieMan

[lapentier]

... in response to Re: blunt, but well said..., posted by OkieMan on Apr 23, 2005

Actually, I haven't yet extensively tutored adults whose primary language is Spanish; most of my experience with adults, oddly enough was with adult speakers of Mandarin Chinese at Pittsbug State back in the late 1980's. This led to teaching English in Taiwan during summer. As for now, I ended up teaching the English classes because the private school where I am employed was short, six years ago, English teachers sufficient to teach a couple of the lower-level secondary English classes which happened to be significantly populated with hispanics.  From what I hear, English teachers come a dime by the dozen; English teachers willing to teach hispanics are rare.

(As a side note, while at Pittsburg State, just to the north and east of you, I began dating and was engaged to a Chinese lady from Taiwan who was a graduate student at PSU.  As a happenstance, a few years later, that relationship did not work out. However, the personal contacts and cultural savvy gained from teaching English during summer in Taiwan ended up introducing me to the lady, who was from the Philippines working for a related Taiwanese employer in Singapore, who ended up later becoming my wife. Over the last nine years or so, my wife and I have introduced several of my shy bachelor friends to "penpals" from the Philippines; some of these have worked out towards marriage.  She somtetimes jokes we should start our own "agency".

In between, I had two serious relationships with American women.  Both were nice people, however, the amount of "baggage" and other issues involved really nixed both relationships.  Either of these two ladies was willing to marry me, but after much agonized prayer, I realized that neither of these two relationships would ever be able to pan out to a successful, productive marriage. The prospects among American women in my age group in the places where I lived were fairly bleak.  And, for about half of that time, I wasn't living very far from where you live now.)

Anyhow, I was living in Pittsburg back in the late 1970's so I don't have a reference point to Wichita at the time.  However, when I moved to Wichita in 1989, there did not seem to be many hispanics here at the time.  Ten years, two school districts, and one university later, I ended up back in Wichita.  It has been since then that the hispanic population here has exploded.  According the data I have seen, the majority of the hispanic population here comes from three northern Mexican states.  As a whole, the group is very hard-working, but is not very well educated.

Congratulations on meeting your lady and flying to Cali.  Yes, you do have a challenge with the language, but it is not insurmountable.  Besides, learning the language with the help of your girlfriend can give you an activity to get to know her better.  Just out of curiousity, have you considered taking introductory Spanish courses at OSU or the community college in Tulsa?  The community college last I heard, is around half the price of OSU, and probably offers night courses.  If all else fails, a Spanish course, would give you writing materials for your letters to your friend--which are likely to earn lots of "brownie" points without much potential of getting you into trouble.  If you say something the wrong way, she will think its hilarious and chalk it up to your inexperience in Spanish rather than putting you foot into your mouth.

Anyhow, I would like to hear how your trip to Cali turns out.  It is interesting to hear about hispanic culture--to hear what really counts to know, not what the tourist brochures and social studies books tell you.  

If it's any consolation, just knowing the language isn't everything.  That's why when my friend started the process again of looking for a wife, I started reading this board.  There have been several times that my wife and I have gone to Mexican or other ethnically hispanic restaurants.  We can read every word on the menu, and not have a clue about what the dish actually is.  A couple of months ago, my mother-in-law, who lives with us, ordered a tortilla.  She was thinking "Spanish tortilla" while the waitress was thinking "Mexican tortilla".  She was rather surprised at what she got.  Just ask your friend about the difference between the two...

Okieman, sorry the post is so long.  Best wishes for success to you, and keep us posted on how things go!

Mark

[OkieMan]

... in response to Re: Re: blunt, but well said..., posted by lapentier on Apr 24, 2005

Mark,

Yes, I plan to take a spanish course at TCC in the near future.  It's just that I had so many things already going, I did not feel like I could do it before. Hopefully, this fall.  At any rate, I will keep everyone on this board informed about how things are going, after I get back in early June.  My trip will be from May 24-June 2
Take care.

                                   OkieMan

[lapentier]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: blunt, but well said..., posted by OkieMan on Apr 24, 2005

Good Luck! Best wishes for success.--Mark

[utopiacowboy]

... in response to Re: Question: Colombianas and English, posted by Patrick on Apr 22, 2005

Well they could be. My chemical engineer wife loves to wear short skirts, tight pants and low-cut blouses. She can't help it - she's a Colombiana!

[Chris F]

... in response to Re: Re: Question: Colombianas and Englis..., posted by utopiacowboy on Apr 22, 2005

My fiancee loves to wear the shorts skirts, tight pants and low cut blouses too...and she is from PERU!!!!!!!!!!!

[OkieMan]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Question: Colombianas and En..., posted by Chris F on Apr 22, 2005

Chris,

I enjoyed hearing about your fiance.  I have talked many times to Utopiacowboy thru these posts and some emails, and I have seen pictures of his wife.  He is very much in love with his wife; and I am sure that you are very much in love with your fiance. Having said that, I would like to ask a follow up question.  We all know that in the latin culture, these ladies are used to dressing sexy.  But, do you think that your latina now dresses  sexy only for you?  By that, I am asking if she still wants other men to notice her?  If she is as attractive as many of the other latinas we have all seen, it is inevitable that other men are checking her out.  How does she feel about that?  Of course, I believe that your Peruvian fiance is still in Peru, right?  So, she has not come to the States yet?  Part of why I am asking is about the cultural changes she will encounter here in the States.  Naturally,  both of you will have many adjusts when she finally gets here.  I am just curious to find out her perspective.  I hope that one day, I will have the opportunity to enjoy the  situation you are in right now! Let me know how it goes.

                          OkieMan