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Author Topic: Question: Colombianas and English  (Read 25600 times)
fingaroll44
Guest
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2005, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: Question: Colombianas and English, posted by Patrick on Apr 22, 2005

Hey your lecturing to the wrong guy. Reread what I wrote. Who are you the new POPE?
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pablo
Guest
« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2005, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: Re: Question: Colombianas and Englis..., posted by fingaroll44 on Apr 22, 2005


Nope, Patrick isn't the Pope, just the owner of P-L who as a few years under his belt and is married to a Latina.  

Pope Patrick, I like that.  LOL

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Jamie
Guest
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2005, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to Question: Colombianas and English, posted by fingaroll44 on Apr 22, 2005

Laziness is definitely a factor. It’s the lets sit out on the porch and watch life go by syndrome which seems to be a favorite pastime here. Ones personal career objective in live certainly does not have to include learning English. But for those that are truly interested in learning the spark for taking the initiative to advance in any aspect of life doesn’t seem to light up for many.


Engage the Exotic - Latin Women
http://International-Introductions.com

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doombug
Guest
« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2005, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: Question: Colombianas and English, posted by Jamie on Apr 22, 2005

"But for those that are truly interested in learning the spark for taking the initiative to advance in any aspect of life doesn’t seem to light up for many."

Excellent point.

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fingaroll44
Guest
« Reply #34 on: April 22, 2005, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: Question: Colombianas and English, posted by Jamie on Apr 22, 2005

I agree with you 100%
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fingaroll44
Guest
« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2005, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to Question: Colombianas and English, posted by fingaroll44 on Apr 22, 2005

All I am hearing is excuses. These women are not that POOR? I have not heard anything about the cost of a library card? They are wearing the nicest clothes. The way you guys are talking is like they are living in the deserts of Africa. Im not buying it fellas. What Im talking about here is the desire to create an opportunity to learn. I have seen enough agency photos with fake boob jobs to know that many of these chicas aren't starving. The clothes they are wearing aint THAT CHEAP. Its a matter of priorities. What Im saying at what point do you say to her SPEAK SOME ENGLISH? This is a great test to see if they want to make things happen for themselves or do they want to make things happen solely by RIDING YOUR BACK TO THE UNITED STATES? This is my litmus test. I have heard all the mi vidas, me reys, mi amors to shake a stick at. Say it in English, then I will really be impressed. This is just my observation. Im not looking to get into a free for all brawl. Just what I have noticed since chatting with latinas from colombia.
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valleydude
Guest
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2005, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to EXCUSES, posted by fingaroll44 on Apr 22, 2005

By your original post and how you presented your point, I totally agreed with you in one word... Lazy!

After I got this far down the post I had a few things to throw in and I still agree with you when it comes to my search.  Sometimes I do use thier initative as criteria.

Generally I know it is difficult to learn another language. I am understanding about this, so in the beginning I write mostly in Spanish. If I start considering them as a prospect, I then introduce English to see how it is taken.

There are times that I come home from work and I am just not in Spanish mode, but I want to talk or email, so I do it in English. From there I see how the girl takes it.

Currently I am talking to a girl that I am  considering a prospect. (She is slowly moving into "Was a prospect") I explain that I am tired and re-assure her about her English but she still insists on Spanish. This is beginning to tell me something. I too have heard all the mi amors, con carinos, besos, etc... and now quite frankly I want to hear it in English too. I take it all as excuses. Especially when they don't have a job and I can come home from work and look up their words in a book as easily as they can. I will gladly do this, but not 100% of the time. It is really frustarating when I can see that I am the only one putting in the effort and I am learning a lot from this and how to guage this.

I really like the girls that continue to write/talk back in English long after I continually write/talk in Spanish. It is a lot of effort our part to learn Spanish and I think they should put forth the effort as well.

In the times I say: "Uno momento nesisito mi libros" it would be nice to hear the same.

I agree with you,

V-Dude

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doombug
Guest
« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2005, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: I Agree, posted by valleydude on Apr 23, 2005

"Especially when they don't have a job and I can come home from work and look up their words in a book as easily as they can. I will gladly do this, but not 100% of the time. It is really frustarating when I can see that I am the only one putting in the effort and I am learning a lot from this and how to guage this."

I had a similar problem with my ex.  I'd known her over a year and, in the end, she had the same lack of interest in studying English as she had from the start.   This despite the free time she had, and despite me sending her a healthy sum of money each month.  

Some might not count this as a "red flag," but I did.

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valleydude
Guest
« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2005, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: Re: I Agree, posted by doombug on Apr 24, 2005

You aren't alone. I have begun to count it as a red flag too, but one to be used with discretion. It wasn't until recently and after much experience with writting to many girls that I began to decipher it.

I agree with you,

V-Dude

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bjsisko
Guest
« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2005, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to EXCUSES, posted by fingaroll44 on Apr 22, 2005

Two years ago when we met, my fiancee (a very intelligent Dominicana) could not even speak to me at ALL without a translator.  All she bought was an english-spanish dictionary to help her.

I on the other hand, bought a PDA that could translate the spanish to english, 2 Books, I have the Spanish language CD's in my car that I listen to on the way to work, downloaded (but have not yet taken) the Pimsleur courses.  I also carry a pocket dictionary.  I also took Spanish class in High School so I had a head start.  Do you know what language my fiancee and I speak in now???

ENGLISH!!  To put it quite frankly my Spanish S U C K S!!!!

The moral of this story, I suppose is that if she has an incentive she will learn.  My girl learned more English in 6 months than I learned Spanish in a lifetime!  AND she is still learning!!

I'm afraid *I* am a lost cause.  hahahaha

Well, the English she is learning will only help her when she gets here.

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MarkNJ
Guest
« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2005, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to My fiancee learned to speak English in 6..., posted by bjsisko on Apr 22, 2005

Reminds me of the two latinas I was pursuing  relationships with and learning about... Both ladies insisted on me speaking English to them on the phone, when we exchanged messages, and during my visits to see them... Along with that there were many times when I met other people in Colombia that knew a little English or were fluent and they to would ask me to speak English so they ccould practice their English because they did not know many people in their country that did...  Sure it is better for me to know more Spanish and it would make my travels in Colombia easier and more secure... But, I also knew that if one of these ladies were to be my wife and come to my country the more English they knew the better...
On a side note, language was not the reasons for either one of these relationships not to continue...
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Onephd
Guest
« Reply #41 on: April 22, 2005, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to EXCUSES, posted by fingaroll44 on Apr 22, 2005

[This message has been edited by Onephd]

Not excuses, but only trying to present some possible left out ideas.  

I hear your point and I think you are talking about something that is more relevant when you have been talking to a woman for a while and it is likely that she will be coming here.  But to  simply ask why Colombians are not learning English when they can't even go to an English speaking country is not right.  I think once a woman has an incentive to learn English, then they do learn English.  But it's dependent on the individual lady.

I think you are talking about the former of the two situations (where the lady is dating a Gringo), but many of us, including me, are responding to the latter.  

As for the library thing.  I have never been to a Colombian Library to know what they have to offer but again, the woman has to have some motivation to learn English.

Imgaine there is a colony of people on the moon and they speak some language called " Language X".  The USA however does not let North Americans freely visit the Moon nor does the USA have any real job opportunities there.  Now the only way to to go visit to the moon is to obtain a Moon Visa (they are only awarded to 1% of the population and very hard to obtain) or to marry a woman from the Moon Colony.  What incentive would you have to go to the library to learn "Language X" without knowing a Moon lady? ---- NONE

I know this sounds like a stupid example, but think about it.  Without some real incentive, neither you or I would Learn "Language X". ha ha ha

There are women that do learn English simply to have something to put on their resume or maybe their company has some opportunities for bilingual workers.  (again here is the motivation or the carrot)

Believe me I feel you on this one, but its a very dynamic and somewhat complicated issue.

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doombug
Guest
« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2005, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: EXCUSES, posted by Onephd on Apr 22, 2005

"Without some real incentive, neither you or I would Learn 'Language X'".

 

The incentive--the bonus--for someone studying "Language X" would be immense were the language widely used throughout the world, such as English is today.  

The country of Chile is a case in point:

"In Brazil, some lawmakers want to slow the advance of English. But Chile is embracing it. 'We have some of the most advanced commercial accords in the world, but that is not enough,' Sergio Bitar, the minister of education, told the New York Times. 'We know our lives are linked more than ever to an international presence, and if you can't speak English, you can't sell and you can't learn.'"

France, on the other hand, is an antithetical case.  That nation seems to despise English.  Though French may be more aesthetically pleasing, it isn't as practical on a global scale.  English is constantly evolving, thus much richer, more elastic, and a greater tool for innovative expression.  It's sort of the Linux of languages.

On one site, the contrast between the French and English languages goes something like this:

"There are fewer than 100,000 words in the French language.

"The central idea of writing is, of course, the idea. Ideas by their very nature are wispy sorts of things. This being so, you can''t grab an idea and do with it what you will. Rather the best for which one can hope is to encapsulate the idea and preserve it for time immemorial in some sort of ethereal amber. We call this amber, language; the basic building block of which is, of course, the word. (We are speaking now as poets and not as linguists.)

"As such, writers of English have the good fortune of having hundreds of thousands of words from which to choose. When you think of it, the English language writer always has at least three words for any idea, each rooted in the Latin, the Germanic or Saxon tongues, and the Greek. Think of a word for human habitation: city, town, metropolis, and so on. And that's just the start. In the English-speaking world we also owe a heavy debt to Algonquin, and Hebrew, and Malay (ketchup anyone?) and Maori, and Zulu and Hmong among a multitude of others. I think you can spot the beginnings of a trend here.

"And then there is the entire realm of 'jargon,' scientific and otherwise, those specialized patois or vocabularies known only to those in specific fields. Computer-related jargon is multiplying at an extraordinary rate. And since English has become the lingua Franca of the Internet, English words are being created and non-English words co-opted at an ever-quickening pace."

http://www.languagemonitor.com/wst_page7.html

There can be no doubt that if someone from LA had a firm grasp of the English language, a greater array of opportunities would be open to them.  Many Asian countries seem enthralled with learning English; and imagine the exodus of Filipinos ever occuring if it hadn't been for their focus on English early on in primary schools.  The individual Filipino expatriate is a prime example of the global payoff of learning a language other than that attributed by culture.

Aside from the popularity/utility of learning English in the afformentioned places, here's a list of countries where English is an official language or is predominantly spoken:

Antigua and Barbuda
Australia
Bahamas
Barbados
Beliza
Botswana
Canada
Fiji
Gambia
Ghana
Grenada
Guyana
India
Jamaica
Kenya
Kiribati
Liberia
Malawi
Malta
Marshall Islands
Mauritius
Micronesia
Namibia
New Zealand
Nigeria
Pakistan
Palau
Panama
Papua New Guinea
Philippines
Rwanda  
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Saint Lucia
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Seychelles
Sierra Leone
Singapore
South Africa
Swaziland
Tanzania
Trinidad and Tobago
United Kingdom
United States [for now, at least]
Vanuatu
Zambia
Zimbabwe


Even the "enlightened" of the anti-Western leaning nations of the world seem to have grasped this:

"Possibly the greatest concentration of these [English-language newspapers and magazines], paradoxically, is in the region that is commonly stereotyped as being the most resistant to American and Western culture: the Arab world."

The author accurately describes English as a tool that connects the Arab diaspora, "...many of whose members reside in English-speaking countries."

"I've seen the future and it speaks English"
http://headheeb.blogmosis.com/archives/015064.html

This is why Chile has rushed to teach their nation English--and why your novia should rush to learn it:

"'The common denominator of the countries that have done best in this age of dashed expectations is that they are the countries where English is spoken,' U.S. economist Paul Krugman said in a recent issue of Fortune. Besides the fact that English is the language of technology and of business, Krugman reckons that English-speaking countries were largely immunized against the Crisis by the ideological groundswell they underwent in the 1980s in favor of open markets and against government intervention. 'Perhaps the rest of the advanced world missed the tide because it couldn't read [economist] Milton Friedman in the original.'"

The rest of the article is quite interesting, and includes the following observations:

"'You will not rise in rank if your English is way beyond help,' says Philippines Defense Secretary Orlando Mercado."

"'In technology, business and diplomacy, a command of English is essential,' says Najib Tun Razak, Malaysia's minister of education."

"English is now the prime language of learning - perhaps even of thought. 'Books on current findings are almost entirely in English,' Malaysian Education Minister Najib points out."

"If the employer has to choose one of two candidates with similar technical qualifications, but one candidate's English is much better, he will get priority."

"English is the language that offers the single biggest market, the largest pool of talent, the most educational and research capabilities, and the greatest probability of being able to communicate with anybody else on the planet."

"MIND YOUR LANGUAGE!"
http://www.asiaweek.com/asiaweek/99/0730/cs1.html

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OkieMan
Guest
« Reply #43 on: April 23, 2005, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: Re: EXCUSES, posted by doombug on Apr 22, 2005


Doombug,

That was a very interesting post. If you will notice on your list of nations; a large portion of them were British colonies, at one time or the other. Remember the old saying -"The sun never sets on the British Empire".  Of course, the British Empire is not nearly as large as it once was, but it started the process of the "globalization"
of the english language.  Naturally, the good old USA took everything to the next level.  Where the biggest part of the colonization of the British Empire ended by the 20th Century, the United States took over as a world power, and then a superpower. As you know, most of the world hates us, and are jealous and envious of us.  But, at least they are smart enough to know that if they want to do business with us, they must learn english.  Having said that, I think that the US govt. has done a disservice to its natural born citizens, by not making foreign language more of a priority as part of our education.  We could start the small children out by learning Spanish (or even French or German).  By the time they are out of elementary school, the kids could be either fluent or near fluent in the foreign language they are studying.  As it is, the public education system does not usually start until the kids are in high school.  By then, they are more interested in getting into each other's pants, or what ball game is playing that week, blah, blah, blah.  I think that is a big mistake.  Start the kids when their little minds are like sponges, and can soak up all the good stuff.  Sort of like the passage of scripture -- "Train up a child, and when he is older he will not depart from it".

                         OkieMan

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Jamie
Guest
« Reply #44 on: April 22, 2005, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: EXCUSES, posted by Onephd on Apr 22, 2005

"I have never been to a Colombian Library to know what they have to offer but again,..."

From what I have seen the libraries are small with minimal selections of old books most coming from donations. If it is like the rest of the country anything good they had was probably stolen (another popular past time in Colombia).

Engage the Exotic
http://International-Introductions.com

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