Twenty-Four "Banderas Rojas" (Red Flags) with Colombianas

[buencamino]

As  for the girl suggesting the most expensive restaurant in town you just tell her where you're going you don't ask where she wants to go. What seems like "gentlemanly" behahior in  gringo culture is often misinterpreted as indecisiveness which is the beginning of her walking all over you. Unless they're from the top strata (which none of the girls we date ever are) they just aren't used to it.

[bcc_1_2]

I think before continuing to discuss this topic any further I should probably get an idea of what you think the word "full" means. We should probably compare passports as well. Remind me which countries you've been to and for how long.   
 

Mexico, Central America, and Colombia. Had things not worked out with my wife I probably would have looked into trips further south. But I saw a benefit to places like DF and San Jose because they are relatively quick and usually affordable to get to. The guys with wives from some regional city in Russia, a village in the Philippines, or even Buenos Aires have a much greater journey and expense.

  single mothers

That happened to me in Cali. Lied straight to my face about it.

This is the other side of the "Dream Gringo" coin. What you're writing reads like the "What kind of guy are you interested in?" section of the agency profiles of girls that don't know any better. "I want a blonde, blue-eyed, 6'2" guy that's in perfect shape, rich and will buy me and my family everything we want, can travel here every couple of weeks to spend time with me until I get my visa, speaks fluent Spanish, is willing to pay for a big Catholic Wedding and loves to sleep in the wet spot."

Well in fairness to my point a view I think my "dream latina" was more realistic. Nice figure, dark hair, passionate/loving, yet balanced, knows some English, has some sort of job/skill/education.

But there are plenty of gringos in their 20s that can meet some of those dream gringo benchmarks too. I'm 6'1 and fit... dressed well. Spoke enough Spanish to flirt. That went a long ways. Some will have more than that. Maybe that blonde hair and maybe they took more Spanish classes in school. Money helps too. Aren't you in the oil and gas business?

In terms of answering your question about Latin America being full of women with an education (and some English skills) I don't want to put some sort of number or percentage on it. What I can say is that guideline helped me narrow down what would have been an endless list. When you can only travel two weeks at a time and you aren't living overseas you have to place some sort of limitations on your search. Conversational (or near) English, being hot, and having some sort of skill/job interest was what I used.

But it is location, location, location (barrio, barrio, barrio). If you are in the State of Mexico slumming it in Neza (not far from the airport) you'll run into a certain sort of girl. If you get your hotel in Condesa or Polanco you'll rub elbows with a different sort of girl. Honduras has pockets of better heeled women. Costa Rica definitely has better areas in the San Jose area. Bogota has it in the north.

I'm just saying it all depends on where you go. There are many factors involved. I'm speaking from a young guys perspective from the Midwest. You mentioned that I am putting up some sort of wall. I actually agree with you that I did eventually put up that wall. That wall helped me. We all put up those walls as they are search parameters. Now you also have to factor in that I started looking at overseas options casually at 23, and I am 30 now. I will tell you that the women younger than me get it that learning English can help them go places. So there is an age factor to it as well. Just taking Mexico City there is a middle class and upper class in DF and the slums next door in the State of Mexico. It is real and I've seen it. I've dated the daughter of an accountant (middle class) who had a 23 year old daughter that had a PR job for an America company. She was middle class and spoke English... perfectly.

In that sense, you're no different from the rich people in Latin America that do exactly the same thing: refusing to "lower themselves" to the level of people who weren't born with the same opportunities they were.

That's okay, I wasn't the white knight. I wouldn't argue against your point above. Our searches for women in Latin America are selfish. Biology and selection is selfish. I'm not looking for a pat on the back. I'm just being straight-forward that a bilingual educated latina has it's benefits in the Midwest. That includes with her career and with communication with her new family and friends.

[bcc_1_2]

As  for the girl suggesting the most expensive restaurant in town you just tell her where you're going you don't ask where she wants to go. What seems like "gentlemanly" behahior in  gringo culture is often misinterpreted as indecisiveness which is the beginning of her walking all over you. Unless they're from the top strata (which none of the girls we date ever are) they just aren't used to it.

Taking the cultural point aside that you are correct about, the average traveler is new and doesn't know a whole lot about the city. If we traveled to Western Europe for business we'd ask around and try and get the local opinion on where to eat. Wouldn't it be nice to date a girl that knew the lay of the land and had been to the restaurants? Don't you eat out at home? You'd certainly have a lot more in common with women that do it in Latin America.

[Elexpatriado]

Or maybe beingable to speak with her family, not having them switch over or translate to your language always, and maybe to nderstand more abouthe culture..
 
And yes lots of educated professionals in Colombia and Latin America who do not ave excellent English. I worked with a process engineer in Venezuela who was a contractor to PVSA, She could understand English, but couldnt speak it real good, so we conversed in Spanish. Some of the Project Engineers were that way too, though at least 70% spoke English as good or better than my Spanish. But you fit in a lot better in the culture, and it's a lot easier to communicate and even see the "Red Flags" if you understand the language.
 
I dont know why your so dead set against it BC. Your young, I stared at 44.
 

It wasn't my intention to suggest it's aiming too high. What I'm saying is a guy could really be missing out on something special. Perhaps finding his true soul mate, someone he really clicks with, a girl that will truly love him...by ruling out the vast majority of women in any city in Latin America based on such stringent, unrealistic criteria. That just doesn't make sense to me. You don't want to even attempt to throw a percentage out there because you know it's so low. I think speaking English and being educated should be a preference, but a requirement? Dude, are you serious? We're talking about Latin America here.
 
Most guys that I know that have been successful played a numbers game. Meaning they met a ton of women and got some experience under their belts before settling down. I don't think anyone would be improving their odds by meeting the VERY few women (even in Bogota) that can speak English and have university educations...not to mention the additional requirements that are much more desirable, single (never married), attractive, relatively young, no kids, not dirt poor, etc.

[bcc_1_2]

Or maybe beingable to speak with her family, not having them switch over or translate to your language always, and maybe to nderstand more abouthe culture..
 
And yes lots of educated professionals in Colombia and Latin America who do not ave excellent English. I worked with a process engineer in Venezuela who was a contractor to PVSA, She could understand English, but couldnt speak it real good, so we conversed in Spanish. Some of the Project Engineers were that way too, though at least 70% spoke English as good or better than my Spanish. But you fit in a lot better in the culture, and it's a lot easier to communicate and even see the "Red Flags" if you understand the language.
 
I dont know why your so dead set against it BC. Your young, I stared at 44.

I'm not "against" it per say. You live in Colombia. Benjio lives and works in Latin America. That likely explains why your Spanish (I suspect benjio even knows a 3rd language)  is good and mine is just travelers. I traveled multiple times per year while you guys lived there. I would say that my situation is more the majority with guys needing to work and make money in the States. So since I don't live in SoCal or Miami and I'm from the Midwest I did put an emphasis on basic level English. There is this Bosnian couple that lives next to a friend of mine and they've been here for years and still struggle with English.

My search criteria made the search manageable. And at the very least it worked for me. She speaks English and I don't have to fly across the world to meet up with her folks. That and her language skills are coveted by employers here. That's another aspect of it unless you want her to just be a complete financial drain. Those English skills also translate to the job market.

[fathertime]

In reference to a Colombian lady lying

That happened to me in Cali. Lied straight to my face about it.

 .

I distinctly remember  when you INSISTED the Colombian women didn't lie to YOU..they only would lie to older men, but definitely not to the ‘almighty’ BCC….so based on what you are writing now, YOu were either lying earlier…or you are lying now….I tend to believe you were lying earlier… the significance of which is you are probably fabricating other things.  Why? I have absolutely no ideal...but it is ironic that you are discussing Colombian women lying


Fathertime! 

[Awesome]

Bcc does have a point.  Most university educated women in latin america know pretty decent english and most of them would be open to dating a gringo.  Common sense would tell you if you're able to attract this type of woman then why would you go for anything else? 

[mambocowboy]

As  for the girl suggesting the most expensive restaurant in town you just tell her where you're going you don't ask where she wants to go. What seems like "gentlemanly" behahior in  gringo culture is often misinterpreted as indecisiveness which is the beginning of her walking all over you. Unless they're from the top strata (which none of the girls we date ever are) they just aren't used to it.

I got an idea. How bout you guys stop wining and dining the lady, and instead she cooks for you! If she can cook , and she expects you to take her out to eat, that's a red flag to me. Especially with all the gringos getting sick in Colombia, that's another reason not to eat out and instead let her express her affection for you. You buy the food, she cooks. Simple as that. Worked for me...

[benjio]

Most university educated women in latin america know pretty decent english

I'm sorry, but this simply isn't true. It just isn't. I know dozens upon dozens of girls with university educations. They take English classes and sure they have to pass them. But most of these girls never have to use English. So outside of greetings and a few useful phrases they can't hold a conversation for [snip]. My girlfriend has the equilvalent of a Master's Degree. She took English for a year and a half and she still can't hold a conversation. You'd do better picking Avianca Flight Attendants up at the airport.

[mambocowboy]

I'm sorry, but this simply isn't true. It just isn't. I know dozens upon dozens of girls with university educations. They take English classes and sure they have to pass them. But most of these girls never have to use English. So outside of greetings and a few useful phrases they can't hold a conversation for [snip]. My girlfriend has the equilvalent of a Master's Degree. She took English for a year and a half and she still can't hold a conversation. You'd do better picking Avianca Flight Attendants up at the airport.

My wife has a 5 year university degree and when she came to the US couldn't say much more than "hello" and "I am happy." Same with all her university educated friends....

[buencamino]

Taking the cultural point aside that you are correct about, the average traveler is new and doesn't know a whole lot about the city. If we traveled to Western Europe for business we'd ask around and try and get the local opinion on where to eat. Wouldn't it be nice to date a girl that knew the lay of the land and had been to the restaurants? Don't you eat out at home? You'd certainly have a lot more in common with women that do it in Latin America.

Bcc you missed something. When I eat out at home I am in Latin America.

[buencamino]

I got an idea. How bout you guys stop wining and dining the lady, and instead she cooks for you! If she can cook , and she expects you to take her out to eat, that's a red flag to me. Especially with all the gringos getting sick in Colombia, that's another reason not to eat out and instead let her express her affection for you. You buy the food, she cooks. Simple as that. Worked for me...

Mambo that's kind of rediculous. We're talking the first date here.

[mambocowboy]

Mambo that's kind of rediculous. We're talking the first date here.

Hey, suit yourself buddy. Happy spending!

[Elexpatriado]

Wrong. I've gone out with girls with masters, bachelors etc., and none of them could  put more than a couple sentences togethr in English.


Not that a Bachelors or masters in most Colombian universities is worth more than a high school diploma in North America.....The SU is even worse..

Bcc does have a point.  Most university educated women in latin america know pretty decent english and most of them would be open to dating a gringo.  Common sense would tell you if you're able to attract this type of woman then why would you go for anything else?

[Elexpatriado]

Maybe you got lucky and got one who cooked for you on the first date..thats why she stuck wit you..try it again you'll be going through several hundred women...
If you wanna do it cheap, cofffee is better..

Hey, suit yourself buddy. Happy spending!

[Elexpatriado]

I have another "Red Flag" ...She doesnt want to use a Condom, because she's not a "Dirty Woman"..Run like hell..she's sleeping with all the  Foreigners and Barrio boys, and who knows what she has picked up...I got an HIV test done in Envigado (yes I know, like a Priest or Monk getting one), and the doctor told me in Colombia, the women you pick up on the chat sites, FaceBook, banks, offices, Exitos, etc.,etc., are way more dangerous from an STD point-of-view than in the Whore Houses

[mambocowboy]

Maybe you got lucky and got one who cooked for you on the first date..thats why she stuck wit you..try it again you'll be going through several hundred women...
If you wanna do it cheap, cofffee is better..

Here's the thing, fellas. I actually live with a Colombiana and she talks to other Colombianas married to gringos. So my source of info is Colombianas, not other gringos. And I'd say that unless you're living with a Colombiana, you don't really get the inside scoop on the culture and the challenges of a gringo-Colombiana relationship..Anyways, I've noticed that most of these Colombianas have their gringo husbands take them out to eat several times a week, whereas my wife cooks every day and will ask for Papa Johns once a month...So I wonder why my wife is different? Is it maybe because I set a precedent early on by agreeing to let her cook for me? In fact, I never had to ask her, she proposed it....And as for asking a woman to cook for you on the first date, yes that probably is asking a bit much, but I did WOVO (write one visit one) , so by the time we met in person we already had talked a ton via Skype...Some guys might find that silly, but it worked for me. At any rate, when you listen to other gringos dispensing advice on this site, one of the things that goes unmentioned is we all have different goals : some are looking for marriage, some looking to play and have fun, some are living outside Latin America and can't live there, some are living there and dating...so all those differences go into our different takes on these situations...

[AndyLee]

Bcc does have a point.  Most university educated women in latin america know pretty decent english and most of them would be open to dating a gringo.  Common sense would tell you if you're able to attract this type of woman then why would you go for anything else?

Not in my experience, in four years here, talking to maybe 1,000 women in all levels from 1 to 5, I have met possibly 2 dozen university graduates who could actually say more than simple greetings and simple phrases. I'm talking doctors, lawyers, public accountants, dentists, audiologists, executives, business managers, business owners. Somebody has seriously mislead both Bcc and Awesome. My earlier opinion that 99.5% of university graduates do not speak English worth a hoot still stands.

[mambocowboy]

Maybe you got lucky and got one who cooked for you on the first date..thats why she stuck wit you..try it again you'll be going through several hundred women...
If you wanna do it cheap, cofffee is better..

don't think luck had much to do with it. A clear head and a positive attitude will do wonders for a man...

[Awesome]

Not in my experience, in four years here, talking to maybe 1,000 women in all levels from 1 to 5, I have met possibly 2 dozen university graduates who could actually say more than simple greetings and simple phrases. I'm talking doctors, lawyers, public accountants, dentists, audiologists, executives, business managers, business owners. Somebody has seriously mislead both Bcc and Awesome. My earlier opinion that 99.5% of university graduates do not speak English worth a hoot still stands.

Ok I guess I was talking out of my arse a little bit on that one.  I really don't have THAT much experience on the subject.  I do have a lot of experience hanging with college students and college educated people in mexico and ALL of them at least can understand spoken english even if they can't speak it very well. From what I gather most mexican universities require a certain level of english proficiency to complete a degree program. So for a guy who doesn't speak spanish and lives in a place with no latino population it would be very advantageous to concentrate on women who have taken at least some college level english courses.

[Awesome]

Somebody has seriously mislead both Bcc and Awesome. My earlier opinion that 99.5% of university graduates do not speak English worth a hoot still stands.

Maybe you didn't notice where you quoted me I didn't use the word "speak".

[Researcher]

These are all good points that every guy who is doing this or even considering it should read. Dating women in countries like Colombia carries with it issues that many guys aren't aware of. If a guy is a rube to begin with then he has the odds stacked against him from the get go. In the end it still takes good judgement to find a suitable mate. There isn't just the "gold digger" factor there is also the compatibility factor. After a while it got easier for me to pick out the ones who were up to no good.

[Elexpatriado]

Don't feel bad Awesome-You dont have as much experience as some of us old farts, but at least your still (I assume) relatively young and good looking and  don't have to fork out a lot of "papaya" so some girl 20 to 40 years younger than you and way outta your league looks wise will tolerate your leaky old ass and saggy balls when they are not screwing their Don Omar Look-a-like Barrio Boys when we are not around, right Buddy??

Ok I guess I was talking out of my arse a little bit on that one.  I really don't have THAT much experience on the subject.  I do have a lot of experience hanging with college students and college educated people in mexico and ALL of them at least can understand spoken english even if they can't speak it very well. From what I gather most mexican universities require a certain level of english proficiency to complete a degree program. So for a guy who doesn't speak spanish and lives in a place with no latino population it would be very advantageous to concentrate on women who have taken at least some college level english courses.

[Elexpatriado]

 
You yourself said that it really takes a long time to know a woman.How can you get to know someone is the right one by skypeing them for months over an 8-1/2" by 11" screen?You don't even know if you can stand each others pheromones. Skypeig and communicating for  setting up the original date is good (but a lot of work), but guys should be doing it with as many women as possible before meeting them. Like some one else said,  Its not just whether the women is  a gold-digger, its whether you two are compatible. I admit , the younger you are, the much better chance you will find someone compatible quickly- if you are smart. But like Benjio said, it is a "numbers" game- concentrating on one woman is almost always not the best approach. I think you and some of the other guys on her had a lot more luck than you ever admit. And one thing I agree with BCC on,is, there are  a lot of guys who were on this site and are not here, who are probably too embarrassed, because they assumed they made the choice, and were not "Rubes" and things didn't work out for them. It's not a matter of who is right and who is wrong, who is a rube and who isn't. It's a matter of learning from your own and others mistakes.
 
Yes , it's a numbers game, but from the other point of view, if you are living or travelling to  a foreign country for several years, and have dated hundreds of women, and are getting to be in your 50s or 60s, you either a.) Do not really want to settle down and enjoy what you are doing playing around or b.) Setting your requirements too impractical and have to change them (i.e age or beauty or education of the girl you want) . I think Jaime's article touched on this subject.
 
I agree with you 100% that a positive attitude and a clear head are  very important- essential . But you can't let the positive attitude blind you so much that it interferes with the "Clear Thinking" part. That's why the 24 (or more) Bandera Rojas and Jaimie's article should become a bible for anyone dating in a foreign country.
 
I sincerely hope the good luck  (as well as the parts you have control over as well) you and others have experienced her  so far continues , and you have a long and happy relationship with your wife.
 

don't think luck had much to do with it. A clear head and a positive attitude will do wonders for a man...

[mambocowboy]

You yourself said that it really takes a long time to know a woman.How can you get to know someone is the right one by skypeing them for months over an 8-1/2" by 11" screen?You don't even know if you can stand each others pheromones. Skypeig and communicating for  setting up the original date is good (but a lot of work), but guys should be doing it with as many women as possible before meeting them. Like some one else said,  Its not just whether the women is  a gold-digger, its whether you two are compatible. I admit , the younger you are, the much better chance you will find someone compatible quickly- if you are smart. But like Benjio said, it is a "numbers" game- concentrating on one woman is almost always not the best approach. I think you and some of the other guys on her had a lot more luck than you ever admit. And one thing I agree with BCC on,is, there are  a lot of guys who were on this site and are not here, who are probably too embarrassed, because they assumed they made the choice, and were not "Rubes" and things didn't work out for them. It's not a matter of who is right and who is wrong, who is a rube and who isn't. It's a matter of learning from your own and others mistakes.
 
Yes , it's a numbers game, but from the other point of view, if you are living or travelling to  a foreign country for several years, and have dated hundreds of women, and are getting to be in your 50s or 60s, you either a.) Do not really want to settle down and enjoy what you are doing playing around or b.) Setting your requirements too impractical and have to change them (i.e age or beauty or education of the girl you want) . I think Jaime's article touched on this subject.
 
I agree with you 100% that a positive attitude and a clear head are  very important- essential . But you can't let the positive attitude blind you so much that it interferes with the "Clear Thinking" part. That's why the 24 (or more) Bandera Rojas and Jaimie's article should become a bible for anyone dating in a foreign country.
 
I sincerely hope the good luck  (as well as the parts you have control over as well) you and others have experienced her  so far continues , and you have a long and happy relationship with your wife.

I wouldn't recommend my strategy for most guys. Since moving to Colombia was not an option for me, I strongly considered using an agency to meet multiple women or using Cupid to line up dates with multiple women, but ultimately decided on a different path. Let's be real on this, a lot of guys bring a lot of baggage to this process and it doesn't matter how many women they date, they probably won't achieve greater clarity and have success with one woman over the long term. Most guys will fail whether they use an agency, visit just one, or move there...Which is why the majority end up just going to Colombia to play. It's so much easier and the options are so much better for gringos over there that it just becomes a lifestyle whereby they move to Colombia and/or travel there frequently. And because they haven't had success with a long term relationship with a Colombiana, they believe that anyone who's making it work must be lucky...I think I'm one of the few married guys on here who provides a balanced view of what these marriages are like. I've said many times that it's more difficult than marrying someone from your own culture. My wife and I work every day to make it work. Right now my wife and baby are in Colombia which absolutely sucks for me but it's yet another challenge I accepted in marrying a Colombiana. I wake up every day with a resolve to make my marriage work so I just don't see how luck has as much to do with it as you do. I doubt whether you're looking for long term relationship success, but if you are,  you're going to have to be more positive with the Colombianas and stop believing so much in luck. You seem to know exactly what you DON'T WANT, but not what you actually WANT.