Broken Immigration System?

[Ray]

 

 
  　
What’s broken is the fools like Obama who refuse to enforce the laws we have on the books.
　
Now we hear that Obama’s uncle Omar is going to get to stay here without even waiting for Obama’s promised amnesty plan.
　
After defying 3 deportation orders and a felony arrest, what is Uncle Omar’s punishment? He gets a green card!
　
Remember that the next time your wife or fiancée is denied a visa, or when some fool tells you that our immigration system is "broken", so therefore we need to grant amnesty and citizenship to all of the 25 million illegal aliens who defied our laws to get here.
　
 

 
 
 
 
Ray
　

[AndyLee]

To add some balance to this thread, there are many web sites that falsely attack the Obama administration on their deportation record, but, the truth is about 400,000 deportations happen each year, more or less steady for the past two administrations, but, in recent years, according to the National Immigations Law Center, "under the Obama administration, we're seeing a record number of people being detained and deported."
Another quote, from David Martin, Department of Homeland Security: Congress has funded enforcement at those levels. The administration is carrying out the laws, honoring the president's obligation under the Constitution to take care that the laws be faithfully executed.And so this is both a congressional and an executive policy. But I want to emphasize that the Obama administration has made an effort to redirect deportations and enforcement actions so that they focus on a better set of priorities, to prioritize people with criminal involvement or recent border crossers or people with serious immigration violations.
And the best example of that, I think, is the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals policy, the policy for the so-called DREAMers, for people who came here as young children and are not accountable for their illegal presence in the country. That was a policy announced about 18 months ago that provides a form of status for those people.
So all of that is part of the process. The president doesn't have the authority to simply wave off enforcement of the laws. That's not the kind of system we have. So there's been an effort to reprioritize it. End Quote

Another note, the President's uncle has been in the US for 30 years since his  Student Visa expired. He has been arrested one time, for DUI.

There are something in the order of 11 million illegal immigrants in the US, not 25 million.
It's no skin off my teeth when people hate Obama. I felt pretty much the same way about GWB, so I can't go knocking people who speak their mind about Obama. But, it's always fun to have both sides of the story, it keeps people from making radical statements…sometimes. Just saying.

[fathertime]

Both these last 2-3 presidents have been very bad in allowing illegal immigrants to cross, work, and stay here....My understanding is that Obozo isn't even following the law regarding deportations....I don't care as much anymore about the law abiding illegals that are already here...I'd like to see the flow cut off completely for new ones though...I KNOW it COULD be done if our govt. representatives put the controls in place but It doesn't seem like they are ever going to...so we can continue to expect to have hoards more...and all the magnets/freebies we give them (their children) is a joke. 


Andy...it is hard to follow your post as it seems to have been culled from from a few different places and I'd like to read it in context...and read what the counterpoints are to the numbers...


Fathertime! 

[robert angel]

I wonder how a lot of big businesses, particularly agricultural interests, REALLY feel about all the illegal aliens here. I mentioned before that we had a McDonald's here closed down for a while because some of the illegals had very slickly done paperwork--they were even having social security deducted.


There's a line somewhere between illegals making big money here compared to what the same work back home would pay  and businesses here who pay workers they know are illegal, wages no American should rightfully have to accept.

There are a number of multimillionaires in our town who built one subdivision after another, houses priced from mid 100K to up in the millions, on the backs of poorly paid illegals. Most of the homes in my own neighborhood are getting new roofs. I've yet to hear a guy working a nail gun speak a word of English and they won't look you in the eye.

Easier to say than do, but if I could go around demanding workers at various farms, chicken and hog processors show legal paperwork allowing them to work in the USA, I think there would be a whole lot less fried chicken, bacon and eggs in the morning in a lot of places.

Hiring illegal aliens and polluting the environment are both basically greed driven acts. Cheaper to hire illegals and cheaper to dump toxic stuff anywhere than it is to dispose of it properly.

[bcc_1_2]

To add some balance to this thread, there are many web sites that falsely attack the Obama administration on their deportation record, but, the truth is about 400,000 deportations happen each year, more or less steady for the past two administrations, but, in recent years, according to the National Immigations Law Center, "under the Obama administration, we're seeing a record number of people being detained and deported."
Another quote, from David Martin, Department of Homeland Security: Congress has funded enforcement at those levels. The administration is carrying out the laws, honoring the president's obligation under the Constitution to take care that the laws be faithfully executed.And so this is both a congressional and an executive policy. But I want to emphasize that the Obama administration has made an effort to redirect deportations and enforcement actions so that they focus on a better set of priorities, to prioritize people with criminal involvement or recent border crossers or people with serious immigration violations.
And the best example of that, I think, is the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals policy, the policy for the so-called DREAMers, for people who came here as young children and are not accountable for their illegal presence in the country. That was a policy announced about 18 months ago that provides a form of status for those people.
So all of that is part of the process. The president doesn't have the authority to simply wave off enforcement of the laws. That's not the kind of system we have. So there's been an effort to reprioritize it. End Quote

Another note, the President's uncle has been in the US for 30 years since his  Student Visa expired. He has been arrested one time, for DUI.

There are something in the order of 11 million illegal immigrants in the US, not 25 million.
It's no skin off my teeth when people hate Obama. I felt pretty much the same way about GWB, so I can't go knocking people who speak their mind about Obama. But, it's always fun to have both sides of the story, it keeps people from making radical statements…sometimes. Just saying.

You are accurate in your post. When it comes to deportation under the Obama administration he is a president for the record books. This thread is the equivalent to saying Wilt Chamberlain, MJ, or Karl Malone couldn't score when in fact they are the record setters of all-time.  Those pesky things like facts always get in the way.

The states with the harshest anti-immigration laws had fruit rotting in the fields (see Georgia/Alabama) because all those people so against this had absolutely no interest in actually doing the work they either did illegally or where brought here legally seasonally to do.

Granted I would have preferred the United States had enforced our laws by actually protecting the border, but that ship has sailed. Now there are millions of people taking advantage of this country without paying a fine for being here illegally and all the money they owe. The fine, back taxes, and future taxes would be nice to collect and it'd go a long way towards balancing a budget.

Once you break grandma's vase wishing you never broke it doesn't do much. You have to figure out the best way to fix it. You can't un-break the vase and you can't go back in time and get serious about border protection.

Rolihlahla Mandela was a rather pragmatic leader that got a lot accomplished in his time because of his pragmatism, common sense, and his ability to work with even the people that imprisoned him to get important things done. He was politically rather extreme in his views and was still able to sit across from people that hated not only his political views but his race to get big things done. And that divide was real and a lot larger than the our so called divided government here.

Our biggest fight here is over the democratic party abandoning Hillary care for the old Bob Dole health care plan and passing it. Compared to some of the divides bridged in other countries I think our government ought to get together and get this immigration issue handled in the most reasonable manner possible. And that means ignoring the ideologues and so called purists that can't sit down and have an adult conversation regarding a comprehensive solution.

Nobody should break the laws and get a free pass.  We have a national debt to pay down and fruit that needs picked. So short of Ray and FT heading to the fields and paying more taxes hopefully rational people from both sides can hammer out a deal in the near future. Between Obama, McCain, Marco Rubio, and the RNC which proclaimed they need to reach out to Latinos after getting creamed by Obama in the last presidential election... I'm sure they can figure something out.   

[AndyLee]

The OP's title for the thread is Broken Immigration System?
IMHO, the answer to that question is a resounding YES.
It's not just the Mexican guys picking fruit and running nail guns and avoiding eye contact (they probably avoid eye contact because they have been discriminated against and hammered on so much they have become bone weary of yet another high brow gringo poking fun at them or abusing them because they work 10 hours a day 7 days a week in the hot sun, pouring rain or freezing snow to provide a life for themselves and their immediate family and their extended family back in Mexico or wherever……..China, Korea, Southeast Asia, Eastern Europe, Latin America……etc).
And don't get me started on the jobs they are taking away from American, hah. I was an organic farmer for 20 years and finally went out of business because I couldn't find workers. Out of desperation I went to Jamaica to take part in a worker exchange program so we could get somebody to pick our fruit and process our free range broilers. Americans won't do that work, even if you double the minimum wage. I tried it and I know.
Then for 10 years I was a  house builder struggling to put up 2 to 4 houses a year doing most of the work myself, often at night and on weekends because Americans won't do that work either, even for the princely sum of $25 hour which I was more than willing to pay for honest, talented labor. I would have gladly and instantly grabbed a Mexican sheet rocker or a Uruguayan carpenter or a Korean housepainter if they were available, with or without a green card. I never thought of myself as being greedy. I suppose I was, but for the most part I always just thought of myself as being just like any other guy trying to make a living.
The immigration problem is real and needs intelligent solutions, not more bashing and bad mouthing of that "no good, lazy, misbegotten, socialist, muslim, anti-christ" we've got for a president. Obama ain't perfect, but he's stopped more wars necessarily than George W started unnecessarily, so he's okay in my book.
As for the Affordable Care Act, known derisively as Obamacare, it is the evolution of a proposed law written by the Republican think tank (Heritage Foundation) some 24 years ago. It was a primary element in Newt Gingrich's Republican Contract With America in 1993. It was the foundation of the Mitt Romney Massachusetts affordable care act.
Obamacare has a long history of support from the Republicans, right up to the very day Obama got elected the first time, then the Republican mantra suddenly became "kill the socialist evil that is obamacare". It was voted into law by both houses of Congress, signed by the President, upheld by the Supreme Court and accepted by the People. Still, Republicans have wasted 3 years and BILLIONS of dollars in 40 attempts to repeal the ACA along with one failed attempt to blackmail by shutting down the government.
Here's a link that shows what the ACA is really all about, not what it's detractors claim it is all about. http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/03/29/obamacare-in-plain-english-what-it-means-for-you/
Quite frankly, based on the abysmal failure of Congress to get behind the ACA and make it as useful as it can be, I don't think it is possible for a two party Congress to solve the Immigration problem either. Especially when one of those parties is so absurdly dedicating itself to trying to destroying a president just because they don't like him.

[bcc_1_2]

The immigration problem is real and needs intelligent solutions, not more bashing and bad mouthing of that "no good, lazy, misbegotten, socialist, muslim, anti-christ" we've got for a president. Obama ain't perfect, but he's stopped more wars necessarily than George W started unnecessarily, so he's okay in my book.
As for the Affordable Care Act, known derisively as Obamacare, it is the evolution of a proposed law written by the Republican think tank (Heritage Foundation) some 24 years ago. It was a primary element in Newt Gingrich's Republican Contract With America in 1993. It was the foundation of the Mitt Romney Massachusetts affordable care act.
Obamacare has a long history of support from the Republicans, right up to the very day Obama got elected the first time, then the Republican mantra suddenly became "kill the socialist evil that is obamacare". It was voted into law by both houses of Congress, signed by the President, upheld by the Supreme Court and accepted by the People. Still, Republicans have wasted 3 years and BILLIONS of dollars in 40 attempts to repeal the ACA along with one failed attempt to blackmail by shutting down the government.

LOL all that above is completely true. It is depressing how much time is wasted on this instead of creating jobs or solving the immigration problem you noted by making them pay us the tax dollars they owe us. But you are right. The socialist president is just passing a bunch of old republican ideas. At least while Newt was impeaching Clinton while asking his own cancer ridden wife for permission to cheat and have three somes there wasn't this much gridlock between the parties where nothing could be done because the other side is the devil straight from the pit of hell.

[beulah]

Loud, not truth, biased, and totally offtopic bcc

[Ray]

Just as expected, here comes Obama’s lap dogs to make more phony excuses for all of his many failures.
　
And once again, bcc shows his ignorance.
　
While the lap dogs predictably follow the rabid leftist mantra of blaming everything on the Republicans, anyone with a more than feeble mind knows better.
　
Don’t listen to this stupid whining about the lack of farm workers/fruit pickers. The existing immigration law already has a visa program for agricultural workers, but the lap dogs would have you believe otherwise. So when the leftists complain about the lack of legal farm workers, don’t believe a word they tell you. They are simply once again making phony excuses for a phony, lying president. If the farmers followed the law and the government enforced the law, bcc’s stinking fruit would get picked despite his rabid leftist whining.
　
Why is one poster whining about hating Obama?? This isn’t about hate and I wouldn’t waste my time or energy hating him or anyone else. This is about the truth and exposing another phony, leftist, lying politician for the fake that he is. Obama can’t open his mouth anymore without lying to the Americam public. Only rabid leftist ideologues and morons would believe anything Obozo says.
 
Case in point…When Obama’s uncle Omar was arrested for drunk driving, the White house (Obama) publicly proclaimed that Obama didn’t know him or had he ever met him. BULL SHYT! Once Uncle Omar blew Obozo’a cover, the White house lied about it’s lies by trying to cover up their obvious prevarication.
　
So once again, all this phony crap about our "broken" immigration system is nothing more that another big lie by the leftists to attempt to get another 25 million Democratic voters. Don’t fall for their big lies!
　
And Obamacare is 100% a Democrat law. Any fool knows that not one single Republican voted for this Democrat mess. But now the lap dogs proclaim that it is a Republican law? More lies from the leftist ideologues. Just a couple of months ago, the Democrats proudly called the phony health care act "Obamacare", but now that it has become public knowledge that the whole law was based on lies and fraud, the lap dogs say it is "known derisively as Obamacare". Derisive? LOL!
　
These leftist whackos crack me up… 
 
　
Ray

[AndyLee]

Loud, not truth, biased, and totally offtopic bcc

Not sure why the attack on bcc……this whole thread is loud, biased, opinionated and off topic, although actually bcc was on topic….immigration

[AndyLee]

So once again, all this phony crap about our "broken" immigration system is nothing more that another big lie by the leftists to attempt to get another 25 million Democratic voters. Don’t fall for their big lies!
. . . . . . . .
And Obamacare is 100% a Democrat law. Any fool knows that not one single Republican voted for this Democrat mess.
. . . . . . . .
These leftist whackos crack me up… 
 　
Ray

uh, actually there's only 11 million illegals here now. But, for some inexplicable reason quite a few of them voted Republican. Yet Obama still won by a landslide……go figure.
Yes, Ray is correct that not one single Republican voted for the Affordable Care Act, yet just one year before Obama became president the ACA was part of their much touted, over-sold, under-achieving Contract With America. They dropped ACA like a hot potato when it became clear that a Democrat president would get the credit, hahahahahhaha….
Now I predict the same thing will happen with immigration…..Republicans like Rubio and McCain will write the new immigration law, the Tea Party will throw another hissy fit further demoralizing the GOP and the Democrats will sweep in and pass the legislation and get all the credit AND get all the new citizens, almost all of whom will vote Democrats for Hillary in 2016.
Yes, life is good. It looks like the Democrats will be able to save this country after all.

[beulah]

Not sure why the attack on bcc……this whole thread is loud, biased, opinionated and off topic, although actually bcc was on topic….immigration

what does newt gingrich and his lovers have to do with illegal immigration? He went completely off of topic and obnoxious.

[Ray]

uh, actually there's only 11 million illegals here now. But, for some inexplicable reason quite a few of them voted Republican. Yet Obama still won by a landslide……go figure.
Yes, Ray is correct that not one single Republican voted for the Affordable Care Act, yet just one year before Obama became president the ACA was part of their much touted, over-sold, under-achieving Contract With America. They dropped ACA like a hot potato when it became clear that a Democrat president would get the credit, hahahahahhaha….
Now I predict the same thing will happen with immigration…..Republicans like Rubio and McCain will write the new immigration law, the Tea Party will throw another hissy fit further demoralizing the GOP and the Democrats will sweep in and pass the legislation and get all the credit AND get all the new citizens, almost all of whom will vote Democrats for Hillary in 2016.
Yes, life is good. It looks like the Democrats will be able to save this country after all.

Thank you for confirming the obvious intent behind all this phony "path to citizenship" nonsense. The Dems are pushing this crap solely to get more votes, but Obozo and his Democrat buddies will NEVER admit it because they are nothing but phonies and frauds.
 
If the government tells you that there are 11 million illegal aliens here, you can bet that the actual number is at least double that. Make them all citizens, let them bring their relatives in on immigrant visas, figure that a minimum of 2/3 will vote Democratric, and you have guaranteed unoposed Democratic rule for the forseeable future, just like you have in California today. The Democrats have flushed California down the toilet...
 
Ray
 
 
 
 

[fathertime]

Nobody should break the laws and get a free pass.  We have a national debt to pay down and fruit that needs picked. So short of Ray and FT heading to the fields and paying more taxes hopefully rational people from both sides can hammer out a deal in the near future. B

How about you go pick your own fruit...I picked around 200 guava earlier in the week from my little orchid...should be ready for another picking in a couple weeks... but i know you are a little 'too good' for that type of work.

uh, actually there's only 11 million illegals here now. But, for some inexplicable reason quite a few of them voted Republican. Yet Obama still 

That number of 11million is hard for me to believe...I' ve heard that number for about 10 years now...nobody I trust has counted them so it is up for dispute. 

You are accurate in your post. When it comes to deportation under the Obama administration he is a president for the record books. This thread is the equivalent to saying Wilt Chamberlain, MJ, or Karl Malone couldn't score when in fact they are the record setters of all-time.  Those pesky things like facts always get in the way.

 

That is also up for debate according to what I've read...the numbers of deportations are high now...especially at the border....but those deportations WERE NOT COUNTED in the past stats...so of course that changes things....here is the link which states 400,000 of the deportations are of this type.  So your stupid basketball analogy doesn't hold water. 
http://nbclatino.com/2013/10/16/conflicting-views-on-approaching-2-million-deportations/




I think among ideas for a reasonable solution would be to set up a strict temporary worker program, if it is deemed necessary.  If citizens such as bcc demand that others do their dirty work, then at least the rest of us don't have to suffer the financial and educational consequences in such a disproportional manner.   Since people like bcc are safely tucked away in middle america, it is much easier to say how harsh it is for anybody to complain about the number of illegals.  If he were to be a victim of crime like Bozo Ray, or had his children denied the services they would normally get because of the bloated school budget due to overcrowding from children of illegals, then I believe the tune he sings would be different.  Meanwhile he is far removed in his ivory tower and his dictations are going to fall on deaf ears to those living in the midst of the ruckus. 


Fathertime!

[Ray]

I think among ideas for a reasonable solution would be to set up a strict temporary worker program, if it is deemed necessary.

  We already have numerous temporary worker programs that have been in place for many years that cover everything from skilled engineers to fruit pickers. The problem with the current programs is mainly a lack of enforcement.
　
For example, a farmer can get an H-2A visa for temporary farm laborers but he must first attempt to hire US citizens or legal residents. If none are available, he can get the visa for the workers he needs, say from Mexico, but he must pay for transportation, free housing, and provide meals or cooking facilities. He must pay prevailing wages and compensation.
　
But since the government doesn’t enforce the prohibition on hiring illegals, most farmers can get away with hiring illegals who are living in a nearby canyon and give them substandard wages and working conditions.
　
If farmers actually faced jail time and large fines like the law calls for, perhaps then they would do it legally. And when those temp workers visas expire, many simply stay here, knowing that Obama won’t deport them.
　
The key to any amnesty plan is strict enforcement and a willingness to deport a whole lot of people. When the Dems propose a program that gives amnesty to those who are employed and who have been here for a long time, they actually have no intention of deporting those who have no means of support, have criminal records, or haven’t been here long enough. They will surely make allowance eventually for EVERYONE to stay and eventually vote for Democrats.
　
Programs like those for temporary farm laborers can be improved and made less burdensome for the employers without some stupid "comprehensive" immigration reform that makes all illegals voting citizens.
　
You don’t have to be a citizen or permanent resident to pick bcc’s fruit. You just need to enforce the current laws. As for the illegals who have been here for many years, have a steady job and a clean record, they could be given legal status to stay here permanently without making them citizens or permanent residents, but Obama has already stated flatly that he will veto any immigration amnesty program that doesn’t include a "path to citizenship". Until the Dems give up the citizenship option, their proposed amnesty program is going nowhere.
　
Ray

[Ray]

The Washington Times August 23, 2012 by Stephan Dinan
　
Deportation Statistics Said To Be Inflated [7]
　
The Republican chairman of the House Judiciary Committee is charging that the Obama administration has "falsified" deportation records to artificially boost numbers — a move critics of the Homeland Security Department have long suspected.
　
Rep. Lamar Smith, the Texan who runs the committee, said the Obama administration has for the past several years been mixing some Border Patrol apprehensions with the deportation statistics from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the agency chiefly responsible for interior enforcement and for deporting aliens.
　
His investigation found that when the Border Patrol numbers are subtracted, deportations actually have gone down every year since Mr. Obama first took office in 2009, dropping from about 395,000 that year to about 330,000 in 2011.
　
And 2012 is shaping up to have even fewer deportations once the Border Patrol figures are subtracted, the committee said.
　
"It is dishonest to count illegal immigrants apprehended by the Border Patrol along the border as ICE removals," Mr. Smith said. "These ‘removals’ from the Border Patrol program do not subject the illegal immigrant to any penalties or bars for returning to the U.S. This means a single illegal immigrant can show up at the border and be removed numerous times in a single year — and counted each time as a removal."
　
 

[Researcher]

Does having 11 million illegals here make it better than having 25 million? Does Omar being arrested once somehow make it better than 2 or 3 times? No, it doesn't. Omar and the other millions here illegally are criminals plain and simple.

[fathertime]

The Washington Times August 23, 2012 by Stephan Dinan
　
Deportation Statistics Said To Be Inflated [7]
　
The Republican chairman of the House Judiciary Committee is charging that the Obama administration has "falsified" deportation records to artificially boost numbers — a move critics of the Homeland Security Department have long suspected.
　
Rep. Lamar Smith, the Texan who runs the committee, said the Obama administration has for the past several years been mixing some Border Patrol apprehensions with the deportation statistics from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the agency chiefly responsible for interior enforcement and for deporting aliens.
　
His investigation found that when the Border Patrol numbers are subtracted, deportations actually have gone down every year since Mr. Obama first took office in 2009, dropping from about 395,000 that year to about 330,000 in 2011.
　
And 2012 is shaping up to have even fewer deportations once the Border Patrol figures are subtracted, the committee said.
　
"It is dishonest to count illegal immigrants apprehended by the Border Patrol along the border as ICE removals," Mr. Smith said. "These ‘removals’ from the Border Patrol program do not subject the illegal immigrant to any penalties or bars for returning to the U.S. This means a single illegal immigrant can show up at the border and be removed numerous times in a single year — and counted each time as a removal."
　
 

setting aside the issue of illegal immigration for just a moment...what I find most revolting is the dishonesty we the american people are constantly fed....I mean some members here are saying how this administration is being ultra tuff on illegal immigrants as if it is actually the truth...i believe Andylee is not intentionally repeating this because he thinks it is inaccurate, he, like some here haven't chosen to admit there are two sides to this issue and to detect all the bs the president and his administration are  feeding us...I think bcc probably looked at the actual numbers (minus the spin) and is just brownosing andylee.   


 I'd rather the people know what the truth is and make whatever decision they are going to make based on that truth...not some trumped up numbers.  Now back to Illegal immigration...My feeling is we (as in the big business here) along with our govt which turned a blind eye, have encouraged lots of illegal immigrants to come here...we probably are going to have to let most of them stay now, if they haven't done anything too bad...and frankly I doubt we can even extract much money outta them, but we should try.... we can hammer the piss outta business if they continue to hire illegals, we need people paying into OUR programs like SS, not sending remittances back to Mexico or Honduras instead...


 Where and why is this not reasonable?  I still like the temporary worker idea, because we can pay the workers less, which will keep the prices down....I don't think it is inhumane to pay less than our minimum wage, if these workers are taking a bus back to their home countries, where the wage is probably well above what they would receive there, if they could find a job at all.


Fathertime!
[size=78%] [/size]

[AndyLee]

what does newt gingrich and his lovers have to do with illegal immigration? He went completely off of topic and obnoxious.

Probably because I made a reference to Newt Gingirch and included his name in this dialog…….I don't see it as being off topic or obnoxious, compared to some of the other whoppers contained in this thread.

[AndyLee]

Both these last 2-3 presidents have been very bad in allowing illegal immigrants to cross, work, and stay here....My understanding is that Obozo isn't even following the law regarding deportations....I don't care as much anymore about the law abiding illegals that are already here...I'd like to see the flow cut off completely for new ones though...I KNOW it COULD be done if our govt. representatives put the controls in place but It doesn't seem like they are ever going to...so we can continue to expect to have hoards more...and all the magnets/freebies we give them (their children) is a joke. 

Fathertime!

I'm pretty sure you have verifiable statistics to back up your statements, yes?

[AndyLee]

Just as expected, here comes Obama’s lap dogs to make more phony excuses for all of his many failures.
　If you really believe this is true then surely you have some facts to back up the statement that Obama has had many failures. I'm ready to be educated. Tell me about them. Thanks
And once again, bcc shows his ignorance.
　
While the lap dogs predictably follow the rabid leftist mantra of blaming everything on the Republicans, anyone with a more than feeble mind knows better.
　
Don’t listen to this stupid whining about the lack of farm workers/fruit pickers. The existing immigration law already has a visa program for agricultural workers, but the lap dogs would have you believe otherwise. So when the leftists complain about the lack of legal farm workers, don’t believe a word they tell you. They are simply once again making phony excuses for a phony, lying president. If the farmers followed the law and the government enforced the law, bcc’s stinking fruit would get picked despite his rabid leftist whining.
　Some verifiable references here would be hunky dory. It would help us all understand WHY you people hate President Obama so much.
Why is one poster whining about hating Obama?? This isn’t about hate and I wouldn’t waste my time or energy hating him or anyone else. This is about the truth and exposing another phony, leftist, lying politician for the fake that he is. Obama can’t open his mouth anymore without lying to the Americam public. Only rabid leftist ideologues and morons would believe anything Obozo says.
This is worthless, pointless, libelous, senseless and just plain stupid and hysterical rhetoric. Let's see your references……assuming you've got any. For starters, tell us when exactly that President Obama lied to you.

Case in point…When Obama’s uncle Omar was arrested for drunk driving, the White house (Obama) publicly proclaimed that Obama didn’t know him or had he ever met him. BULL SHYT! Once Uncle Omar blew Obozo’a cover, the White house lied about it’s lies by trying to cover up their obvious prevarication.
Obama was never asked until days into the development of this story. When he was asked he readily gave out information about having stayed with his Uncle for 3 weeks until his apartment was ready…..etc. Reading or watching anything other than Rush Limbaugh and FOX News would be a good idea for some people. IMHO to tell a lie this big requires someone at least as talented as Sarah Palen or Michelle Bachmann or Ted Cruz. No ordinary democrat could possibly have the balls to blatantly lie and say he never met his uncle when in fact he knew him fairly well for at least a few years.
　
So once again, all this phony crap about our "broken" immigration system is nothing more that another big lie by the leftists to attempt to get another 25 million Democratic voters. Don’t fall for their big lies!
Sigh….this is getting old, I'm not sure I even want to continue trying to smooth out your dialog.
　
And Obamacare is 100% a Democrat law. Any fool knows that not one single Republican voted for this Democrat mess. But now the lap dogs proclaim that it is a Republican law? More lies from the leftist ideologues. Just a couple of months ago, the Democrats proudly called the phony health care act "Obamacare", but now that it has become public knowledge that the whole law was based on lies and fraud, the lap dogs say it is "known derisively as Obamacare". Derisive? LOL!
　
These leftist whackos crack me up…

　
Ray

[AndyLee]

Does having 11 million illegals here make it better than having 25 million? Does Omar being arrested once somehow make it better than 2 or 3 times? No, it doesn't. Omar and the other millions here illegally are criminals plain and simple.

Yes, the difference between 11 million and 25 million is approximately 14 million, more than double what we really have. If it were true, which it isn't then with 25 million new Democrats we would have control of the white house, senate and house of representatives from now till doomsday, assuming 15% of those 25 million actually vote and of the ones that vote 95% of them vote responsibly, for Democrats.


Yes, there is  at  HUGE difference between 1 felony and 2 or 3. The OP stated that the uncle was a Felon. Quite frankly, a person who kept his nose clean for 50 years and got caught once for DUI is a LOT different from a person who has 2 or 3 felony convictions. DUI in the US is incredibly common and not something most of us think of as "felon". When we see the word felon in the OP we are led to believe the uncle is a serial rapist or a murderer or child molester.

[AndyLee]

I think among ideas for a reasonable solution would be to set up a strict temporary worker program, if it is deemed necessary. 

Fathertime!

This argument is pretty thin, given we've had temporary agriculture worker programs in one form or another since at least 1976 which is the year I bought my first farm. Maybe you could spend a few minutes in google and bone up on the subject.

[AndyLee]

setting aside the issue of illegal immigration for just a moment...what I find most revolting is the dishonesty we the american people are constantly fed....I mean some members here are saying how this administration is being ultra tuff on illegal immigrants as if it is actually the truth…i believe Andylee is not intentionally repeating this because he thinks it is inaccurate, he, like some here haven't chosen to admit there are two sides to this issue and to detect all the bs the president and his administration are  feeding us…I think bcc probably looked at the actual numbers (minus the spin) and is just brownosing andylee.
Speak for yourself Señor, education is a two way street. I think it would be hunky dory if some people would listen to and watch a few balanced programs and lay off the Rush Limbaugh and Fox News for a while.
By the way, the immigration story has way more than just 2 sides. Again, doing some diligent searching on Google will open your eyes a bit. 


 I'd rather the people know what the truth is and make whatever decision they are going to make based on that truth...not some trumped up numbers.  Now back to Illegal immigration...My feeling is we (as in the big business here) along with our govt which turned a blind eye, have encouraged lots of illegal immigrants to come here...we probably are going to have to let most of them stay now, if they haven't done anything too bad...and frankly I doubt we can even extract much money outta them, but we should try.... we can hammer the piss outta business if they continue to hire illegals, we need people paying into OUR programs like SS, not sending remittances back to Mexico or Honduras instead...


 Where and why is this not reasonable?  I still like the temporary worker idea, because we can pay the workers less, which will keep the prices down....I don't think it is inhumane to pay less than our minimum wage, if these workers are taking a bus back to their home countries, where the wage is probably well above what they would receive there, if they could find a job at all.


Fathertime!

Of course nobody knows for sure how many illegals there are in the US but the number of 11 million seems to be fairly well accepted  by all sides. When I came to Colombia 4 years ago the number being bandied about was 10 million, so it's reasonable to assume that it could have grown by 10% in 4 years.


I think a really important part of this discussion should be for all of us to agree that, first, these are real people we are talking about. They have hopes and dreams and children and lovers and folks back home just like you and I do.
Another thing we can agree on is that there is indeed an immigration problem. People want to come to the US just like they have been doing since even before it was the US, way back to when English settlers came to Jamestown (illegally I might add). We have immigrants from every country in the world. My family immigrated to US from England when there were only 13 states. There is no record of whether my forefathers did it legally or not. They just started showing up on the Virginia tax records with no mention of where or when or how they arrived. I am just guessing here, but I'd say a significant number of you all have a similar family history.
Today, as for the past, some immigrants are doing it legally and others aren't. Attacking all immigrants as being evil is counter productive IMHO. We should only be attacking the ones who are using criminal means to arrive in the US and criminal means to stay here.
 So, just saying THEY ALL came with evil intent is doing them, and us, a disservice. 

[beulah]

Probably because I made a reference to Newt Gingirch and included his name in this dialog…….I don't see it as being off topic or obnoxious, compared to some of the other whoppers contained in this thread.

Talking about newt gingritch and his lovers on a topic about immigration is off the subject.  You have to be off your rocker to say differently.