Just booked my return flight to Colombia for the 2nd trip

[fathertime]

A young colombiana on the other hand I can see her changing tremendously.  Not only because of her young age and the natural transition of maturing from a girl into a woman, but from her value and status as a person increasing exponentially once she goes from the traditional society to our fast paced, ultra modern, liberal society.  The change could be pretty dramatic in some cases.

Hey Awesome! I’m not arguing that a young woman doesn’t do some changing, because I believe that is a very likely outcome in many cases…

How exactly do the men change?  Especially the ones who are already in their 40's and 50's I don't see them "changing" very much.
 

I do think men can change quite a bit in that time frame and more than one way…for example, I know a guy who gained 115 pounds after getting married  (he was in his mid 30's)…other men in their 40’s become impotent, lose interest in sex, or have other health issues that fundamentally change a marital dynamic…some may groan about how women change, but I think these things I mentioned are probably a big deal to some young women...when they realize they are going to potentially saddled with these changes forever it could prompt a change in her.
 
 
…other men may find out they went into marriage with a good attitude but after a while their attitude becomes worse and worse as they want to take their lives in a different direction…other men may decide marriage is not as important as other things, and thereby become less accommodating…I could write out other ways men also COULD change…I think it is a legitimate issue (as is women changing)…but it is not often discussed...and it doesn't have to be, but I think it exists and has to be factored in as well.   


Fathertime!

[AndyLee]

Hey Awesome! I’m not arguing that a young woman doesn’t do some changing, because I believe that is a very likely outcome in many cases…



 I do think men can change quite a bit in that time frame and more than one way…for example, I know a guy who gained 115 pounds after getting married  (he was in his mid 30's)…other men in their 40’s become impotent, lose interest in sex, or have other health issues that fundamentally change a marital dynamic…some may groan about how women change, but I think these things I mentioned are probably a big deal to some young women...when they realize they are going to potentially saddled with these changes forever it could prompt a change in her.
 
 
…other men may find out they went into marriage with a good attitude but after a while their attitude becomes worse and worse as they want to take their lives in a different direction…other men may decide marriage is not as important as other things, and thereby become less accommodating…I could write out other ways men also COULD change…I think it is a legitimate issue (as is women changing)…but it is not often discussed...and it doesn't have to be, but I think it exists and has to be factored in as well.   


Fathertime!

Goodness, FT, I could not agree with you more. You've hit the nail on the head repeatedly over the years on this forum, but this one is classic and timeless. Undoubtedly men do change, in some cases dramatically, as your friend who gained a deadly amount of weight. I changed dramatically, too, by losing 60 pounds and starting an exercise and good food program that has enabled me to overcome sleep apnea, high cholesterol, erectile dysfunction and depression. I went from 6 pills a day to nada, and my attitude and outlook on life has improved tremendously. The best part? Even at my advanced age of 65 I wake up with a woody more times than not. Now that's change!

[Awesome]

Good points FT.  All the more reason for a middle aged man to take good care of himself.  Testosterone and hgh treatments are also becoming more common which is a good way to stay younger longer.

[Elexpatriado]

people's basicpersonalitys are formed by the time they are 15 or 18yers old. If someone expects to marry a young latina  and "change" or "Mould " her to some ideal..just forget it..a wild fantasy..(the 60 year old taxi drivers give the same reason for 18 year old girl freinds, but really, its because they want a hot body next to them in the morning ) it's better to find someone with basic morals and principles you can live with, and then accept the rest of her personality as she is..if she doesnt learn English fast..so be it..if she doesn't like Golf, and you do, so be it..if she doesnt like to work out..and starts to gain weight..accept.it .you accepted her,took her in , took her away from her family and culture, and made a choice..better be very accomodating and tolerant and  live with it.
 
Also, there is another famous Dicho "You can take the Colombiana out of Colombia, but you can't take the Colombia out of the Colombiana.."
 
 

Hey Awesome! I’m not arguing that a young woman doesn’t do some changing, because I believe that is a very likely outcome in many cases…



 I do think men can change quite a bit in that time frame and more than one way…for example, I know a guy who gained 115 pounds after getting married  (he was in his mid 30's)…other men in their 40’s become impotent, lose interest in sex, or have other health issues that fundamentally change a marital dynamic…some may groan about how women change, but I think these things I mentioned are probably a big deal to some young women...when they realize they are going to potentially saddled with these changes forever it could prompt a change in her.
 
 
…other men may find out they went into marriage with a good attitude but after a while their attitude becomes worse and worse as they want to take their lives in a different direction…other men may decide marriage is not as important as other things, and thereby become less accommodating…I could write out other ways men also COULD change…I think it is a legitimate issue (as is women changing)…but it is not often discussed...and it doesn't have to be, but I think it exists and has to be factored in as well.   


Fathertime!

[Elexpatriado]

 
Testosterone and hgh treatments? Why not eat healthy and work out. i am 57 and I look 40, and I still bench press 220lb, climb 6000metre peaks, run 10 km a day and dont have any issues with sex drive or energy. These things are uhealthy , unproven and could be as dangerous as steroids..its the same like the Latinas getting lipo-suction when they gain weight, instead of going to the gym or getting a vigorous work out regime.lazy person's way out..
 
At least thats how I feel now- see how I feel in 10 years- still have to worry about the side effects of this crap on your health..pretty scary..

Good points FT.  All the more reason for a middle aged man to take good care of himself.  Testosterone and hgh treatments are also becoming more common which is a good way to stay younger longer.

[Awesome]

Testosterone and hgh treatments? Why not eat healthy and work out. i am 57 and I look 40, and I still bench press 220lb, climb 6000metre peaks, run 10 km a day and dont have any issues with sex drive or energy. These things are uhealthy , unproven and could be as dangerous as steroids..its the same like the Latinas getting lipo-suction when they gain weight, instead of going to the gym or getting a vigorous work out regime.lazy person's way out..
 
At least thats how I feel now- see how I feel in 10 years- still have to worry about the side effects of this crap on your health..pretty scary..

I feel the same way.  I personally wouldn't try any of that stuff but I've talked to quite a few guys who think it's the greatest thing since sliced cheese.  It's especcially popular among expats living in colombia since it seems to be cheaper and alot easier to obtain there.

[Elexpatriado]

 
Once again, we may be talking about the LeBon/ Juan Valdez crowd in parque Llleras..
 
 

I feel the same way.  I personally wouldn't try any of that stuff but I've talked to quite a few guys who think it's the greatest thing since sliced cheese.  It's especcially popular among expats living in colombia since it seems to be cheaper and alot easier to obtain there.

[fathertime]

Testosterone and hgh treatments? Why not eat healthy and work out. i am 57 and I look 40, and I still bench press 220lb, climb 6000metre peaks, run 10 km a day and dont have any issues with sex drive or energy. These things are uhealthy , unproven and could be as dangerous as steroids..its the same like the Latinas getting lipo-suction when they gain weight, instead of going to the gym or getting a vigorous work out regime.lazy person's way out..
 
At least thats how I feel now- see how I feel in 10 years- still have to worry about the side effects of this crap on your health..pretty scary..

Hi Elexpatriado,   Andy Lee has said he was 65 years old...I think if I were 65 years old, I wouldn't be too worried about preserving myself for any longer if it was to interfere with my good time at the moment...I mean I question the value to preserve yourself for say age 75 for example?  I'd rather go all in and I die or get ill, well that is going to happen anyway, just a possibly a few years or a decade later...  If all those treatments are working for him and helped him along to lose all the weight and pop boners then I say what the hell  [size=78%]....now had he been 45 and undergoing risky treatments then it might be a different story...but heck I think I'm ok with being dead at 75 if it means I can really enjoy a woman during my mid 60's...[/size]


All that said, I would probably first try to work out and eat right...heck I think I might decide to do both..get the treatments and workout...might as well get into it four square, especially if life is no longer complicated by work, young children, or other time-consuming commitments.   


Fathertime! 

[AndyLee]

Hi Elexpatriado,   Andy Lee has said he was 65 years old...I think if I were 65 years old, I wouldn't be too worried about preserving myself for any longer if it was to interfere with my good time at the moment...I mean I question the value to preserve yourself for say age 75 for example?  I'd rather go all in and I die or get ill, well that is going to happen anyway, just a possibly a few years or a decade later...  If all those treatments are working for him and helped him along to lose all the weight and pop boners then I say what the hell  [size=78%]....now had he been 45 and undergoing risky treatments then it might be a different story...but heck I think I'm ok with being dead at 75 if it means I can really enjoy a woman during my mid 60's...[/size]


All that said, I would probably first try to work out and eat right...heck I think I might decide to do both..get the treatments and workout...might as well get into it four square, especially if life is no longer complicated by work, young children, or other time-consuming commitments.   


Fathertime!

Just a minor correction here….the testosterone and huh comment was made by Awesome, not me. I'm not even sure what HGH is, although I'm now curious and will google it later.
But, I will add some thoughts about testosterone. When I was 60 pounds overweight I felt lethargic and lazy and not able to motivate myself to exercise to lose weight, and I had the erectile dysfunction problem going on. So, I went to a doctor and requested testosterone treatments hoping they would help my libido. The doctor refused, saying that because I was overweight the testosterone treatments would not help. So, I did some research and went to another doctor and asked for testosterone so I could have the physical energy needed to exercise properly, and that worked. I was taking testosterone leg patches for 6 months and the increase in my energy level was excellent. I was able to exercise and started losing weight steadily. At the end of the 6 months the doctor and I decided the testosterone was no longer necessary, and within another 6 months I had completed my weight loss program and felt like a million bucks. So, yes, definitely take the testosterone treatments, but only with doctor supervision. I would have succeeded without them, but I think the treatments accelerated my weight loss program by at least 6 months or a year. That all happened 5 years ago and in my opinion the program has extended my life probably by 10 or 20 years, rather than shortened it.

[V_Man]

Of course it is down to morals. I take the point that religion may or may not equate to morals and faithfulness.

One thing about many Colombian women that gives me hope is that they see Colombian men being unfaithful all the time and they want something better for themselves. Unless they are myoptic, they realise two things: (a) just who do they think Colombian men are being unfaithful with? and (b) if one wants to attract and keep a certain type of person one needs to live one's life a certain way. Hopefully the one you find always has.
A healthy belief in karama might help.

I also paid very close attention to what sort of relationship her parents had and how her father conducted his life.
Women everywhere are more influenced in these things by the example set by their father than most will ever realise. It not only sets the expectation they have of their own husband but also how they should treat their husband.

[Elexpatriado]

Do you really think the majority of Colombianas are that analytical and think that far ahead? Most of them think about today and the next day, and no more..I find a lot of them are great to talk the talk, but not so great on walking the walk...do you think all those Colombian men are cheating with only hookers? You dont beleive that the level of infidelity in Colombian women is nearly the same as Colombian men? And also, as far as father fiures, most of the women you find in the agencies,  on internet sites and dating sites, looking for foreigners particularly, usually have a pretty poor father figure to look up to, if at all (many have fathers that have run off, or been killed at an early age through violence, drunken driving etc., and of the ones that remain,many are mujeriegos or drunks or layabouts or all of the previous).). One can only hope that some of them are inteligent enough to learn from the bad men in thier lives  and not folow the same pattern.Sure, what you say matbe true , and some of these women should be able to learn from the good and bad influences of men in thier lives, and thier own previous mistakes, but you really have to go through a lot of chaffe before you find the wheat.

Of course it is down to morals. I take the point that religion may or may not equate to morals and faithfulness.

One thing about many Colombian women that gives me hope is that they see Colombian men being unfaithful all the time and they want something better for themselves. Unless they are myoptic, they realise two things: (a) just who do they think Colombian men are being unfaithful with? and (b) if one wants to attract and keep a certain type of person one needs to live one's life a certain way. Hopefully the one you find always has.
A healthy belief in karama might help.

I also paid very close attention to what sort of relationship her parents had and how her father conducted his life.
Women everywhere are more influenced in these things by the example set by their father than most will ever realise. It not only sets the expectation they have of their own husband but also how they should treat their husband.

[Elexpatriado]

 
Thanks for the new word V-man. I always appreciate it when someone gives me a new word or saying in Inglis or espanol:
 
my·o·pi·a    (m-p-)
 n. 1. A visual defect in which distant objects appear blurred because their images are focused in front of the retina rather than on it; nearsightedness. Also called short sight. 2. Lack of discernment or long-range perspective in thinking or planning:        Definition 2 suits the vast majority of Colombianos and Colombianas to a tee.   Myopic or having Myopia.     

Of course it is down to morals. I take the point that religion may or may not equate to morals and faithfulness.

One thing about many Colombian women that gives me hope is that they see Colombian men being unfaithful all the time and they want something better for themselves. Unless they are myoptic, they realise two things: (a) just who do they think Colombian men are being unfaithful with? and (b) if one wants to attract and keep a certain type of person one needs to live one's life a certain way. Hopefully the one you find always has.
A healthy belief in karama might help.

I also paid very close attention to what sort of relationship her parents had and how her father conducted his life.
Women everywhere are more influenced in these things by the example set by their father than most will ever realise. It not only sets the expectation they have of their own husband but also how they should treat their husband.

[JWR]

Ive had almost three years now since my divorce with my wife from Pereira to think about my part in the break up, her part in the break up and how this all fits together.  I've come up with several ideas that might help keep some of you new guys from going through what I've gone through.
 
Before you buy a ring:

1.  Watch how she treats other people around her very carefully.  Is she impatient with the waiter at the restaraunt, does she anger easily with her family, and those people around her?
 
2.  Is she angry with people in her past that have "wronged" her.  Has she been able to move on, or forgive things that people have done to her in her past?  Does she, or has she just "thrown away" relationships with her friends and family members in the past?
 
3. And as been said before, how is her relationship with her family?
 
Many guys focus on how the girl treats them, how effectionate she is, and how sweet she is.  I believe this is only a small part of what needs to be considered.  How the girl treats other people will determine how she is going to treat you in the future after the shine comes off the relationship.  If she shows coldness, and harbors long term ill feelings toward others, you will eventually be on this list.
 
Much space on the board here has been taken up with how much time is necessary to get to know one of these girls before making the big decision and popping the question.  I say just enough time to see her in her true element, and enough time to see her when she's having a bad day, when she's on her period, when she's annoyed.  Enough time for her to relax from her "best behavior".  If the guy doesn't speak spanish very well, this should add to the time.
 
My ex wife was estranged from her family, living alone in Cali, and angry with her Mom and sister.  I saw coldness and suspiciousness in some of her behaviors with other people, but she was always sweet to me in the beginning, and for several years.  I saw her ability to just write people out of her life early on in the relationship.
 
People and girls that are just generally angry in nature under the surface, expect people in their lives to eventually "wrong" them.  From the beginning, they start keeping a tab, and all the little mistakes that their partner makes, continue to add up til the page is full, and they then have justification for writing one more person out of their life.  After 10 years, her increasing coldness had taken a toll on me, and I was also ready for a change.  Since we didn't have kids, and with my attitude of "relationships are volunteers only".  She had an easy exit.
 
Often guys here wonder what the guy did to mess things up.  So here goes with my screwups.
 
Number 1 screwup I regret the most.
Her best friend like a sister came to visit indefinately, and got off the plane with 100 bucks.  My wife was going to nursing school, and I was basically living like a single guy getting almost zero attention from her at the time.  After her friend arrived, she spent all of her little spare time with her friend, and I got no attention at all.  (Big deal....we had been married for years at the time, and this should not have bothered me so much.) Her friend also lived off of us for months contributing nothing.  I stupidly made some comments to my wife about her friend sponging off of us indefinately, and I know now that the marriage was over in her mind that day. (The cost of the food she was eating was really nothing, and I was being petty.) It was only a matter of time before we filed, and the clock was ticking.
Never get between a good friend or family member with your wife....duh!
 
Number 2 regret.
My wife was fiercely independent, lived alone in Cali, and was highly intelligent.  She often made comments about taking off on an adventure of her own on a motorcycle, sailing a small boat someplace singlehanded, or taking the truck on a Mexico adventure by herself.  I did not fully understand her need to do some things on her own, and not always be tied to me in every activity.  We had already sailed 15000 miles together, lived in other countries, and had all sorts of adventures, and I thought that was enough adventures.  I should have went ahead and encouraged her to go ahead and get the damn motorcycle that she was dreaming about..
If you see signs of your wife feeling trapped, or her need to feel more independent, listen carefully, and help her to make whatever she needs to do happen.  Hopefully she will go have her adventure, then come back.
 
Regret 3. 
Before we were married I took salsa lessons, danced with her in Cali, and took part in that part of the culture.  I really don't enjoy dancing, and after we were married, we stopped going dancing.  She wanted to take tango classes together, and I kept avoiding it.  She put up with sailing across oceans with me, but I selfishly wouldn't go dancing with her.....Duh!
Keep dancing with your wife no matter if you like it or not...
 
Regret 4.  After work, I often was too freakin lazy to go to the gym with her, or take a yoga class with her.
Should have got up off my azz and went to the gym with her.
Get up and go to the gym with your wife.  Weight lift and stay strong for her.
 
Ok that's 4 and there are more small ones.  During our marriage of 10 years, I encouraged my wife and was supportive of pretty much anything she wanted to do.  She started many activities such as guitar, and then later quit.  She's generally not a very satisfied person with things, and is not easily pleased.  Even though her English is perfect, her communication skills are terrible.  If I would have known how important some of these things were to her, I would have made some changes.   A thickhead married to a girl who doesn't communicate well, is not a good combination.  After years of marriage, it's just too easy to get too comfortable, and let some things go stale.   Better to stay sharp if you can....
 
Hindsight is 20/20
 
And for those of you guys that are married to one of these pretty girls, and think you have the world by the azz, and you're marriage is indestructable, I encourage you to look in the mirror, and ask yourself if you are being your best.  Open up lines of communication  with your wife, and encourage her to tell you what is on her mind.  Directly ask her what you can do for her to improve the marriage.  Don't get too comfortable, and don't get lazy.
 

[benjio]

JWR,
 
Wonderful insight....thanks for sharing.

[robert angel]

Ive had almost three years now since my divorce with my wife from Pereira to think about my part in the break up, her part in the break up and how this all fits together.  I've come up with several ideas that might help keep some of you new guys from going through what I've gone through.
 
Before you buy a ring:

1.  Watch how she treats other people around her very carefully.  Is she impatient with the waiter at the restaraunt, does she anger easily with her family, and those people around her?
 
2.  Is she angry with people in her past that have "wronged" her.  Has she been able to move on, or forgive things that people have done to her in her past?  Does she, or has she just "thrown away" relationships with her friends and family members in the past?
 
3. And as been said before, how is her relationship with her family?
 
Many guys focus on how the girl treats them, how effectionate she is, and how sweet she is.  I believe this is only a small part of what needs to be considered.  How the girl treats other people will determine how she is going to treat you in the future after the shine comes off the relationship.  If she shows coldness, and harbors long term ill feelings toward others, you will eventually be on this list.
 
Much space on the board here has been taken up with how much time is necessary to get to know one of these girls before making the big decision and popping the question.  I say just enough time to see her in her true element, and enough time to see her when she's having a bad day, when she's on her period, when she's annoyed.  Enough time for her to relax from her "best behavior".  If the guy doesn't speak spanish very well, this should add to the time.
 
My ex wife was estranged from her family, living alone in Cali, and angry with her Mom and sister.  I saw coldness and suspiciousness in some of her behaviors with other people, but she was always sweet to me in the beginning, and for several years.  I saw her ability to just write people out of her life early on in the relationship.
 
People and girls that are just generally angry in nature under the surface, expect people in their lives to eventually "wrong" them.  From the beginning, they start keeping a tab, and all the little mistakes that their partner makes, continue to add up til the page is full, and they then have justification for writing one more person out of their life.  After 10 years, her increasing coldness had taken a toll on me, and I was also ready for a change.  Since we didn't have kids, and with my attitude of "relationships are volunteers only".  She had an easy exit.
 
Often guys here wonder what the guy did to mess things up.  So here goes with my screwups.
 
Number 1 screwup I regret the most.
Her best friend like a sister came to visit indefinately, and got off the plane with 100 bucks.  My wife was going to nursing school, and I was basically living like a single guy getting almost zero attention from her at the time.  After her friend arrived, she spent all of her little spare time with her friend, and I got no attention at all.  (Big deal....we had been married for years at the time, and this should not have bothered me so much.) Her friend also lived off of us for months contributing nothing.  I stupidly made some comments to my wife about her friend sponging off of us indefinately, and I know now that the marriage was over in her mind that day. (The cost of the food she was eating was really nothing, and I was being petty.) It was only a matter of time before we filed, and the clock was ticking.
Never get between a good friend or family member with your wife....duh!
 
Number 2 regret.
My wife was fiercely independent, lived alone in Cali, and was highly intelligent.  She often made comments about taking off on an adventure of her own on a motorcycle, sailing a small boat someplace singlehanded, or taking the truck on a Mexico adventure by herself.  I did not fully understand her need to do some things on her own, and not always be tied to me in every activity.  We had already sailed 15000 miles together, lived in other countries, and had all sorts of adventures, and I thought that was enough adventures.  I should have went ahead and encouraged her to go ahead and get the damn motorcycle that she was dreaming about..
If you see signs of your wife feeling trapped, or her need to feel more independent, listen carefully, and help her to make whatever she needs to do happen.  Hopefully she will go have her adventure, then come back.
 
Regret 3. 
Before we were married I took salsa lessons, danced with her in Cali, and took part in that part of the culture.  I really don't enjoy dancing, and after we were married, we stopped going dancing.  She wanted to take tango classes together, and I kept avoiding it.  She put up with sailing across oceans with me, but I selfishly wouldn't go dancing with her.....Duh!
Keep dancing with your wife no matter if you like it or not...
 
Regret 4.  After work, I often was too freakin lazy to go to the gym with her, or take a yoga class with her.
Should have got up off my azz and went to the gym with her.
Get up and go to the gym with your wife.  Weight lift and stay strong for her.
 
Ok that's 4 and there are more small ones.  During our marriage of 10 years, I encouraged my wife and was supportive of pretty much anything she wanted to do.  She started many activities such as guitar, and then later quit.  She's generally not a very satisfied person with things, and is not easily pleased.  Even though her English is perfect, her communication skills are terrible.  If I would have known how important some of these things were to her, I would have made some changes.   A thickhead married to a girl who doesn't communicate well, is not a good combination.  After years of marriage, it's just too easy to get too comfortable, and let some things go stale.   Better to stay sharp if you can....
 
Hindsight is 20/20
 
And for those of you guys that are married to one of these pretty girls, and think you have the world by the azz, and you're marriage is indestructable, I encourage you to look in the mirror, and ask yourself if you are being your best.  Open up lines of communication  with your wife, and encourage her to tell you what is on her mind.  Directly ask her what you can do for her to improve the marriage.  Don't get too comfortable, and don't get lazy.

Thanks!
We should have a 'highly recommended reading area', made up of posts from various people that are as helpful as this one. This ought to be required reading. Made me look at myself a bit, that's for sure!

[whitey]

Before you buy a ring:

1.  Watch how she treats other people around her very carefully.  Is she impatient with the waiter at the restaraunt, does she anger easily with her family, and those people around her?
 
2.  Is she angry with people in her past that have "wronged" her.  Has she been able to move on, or forgive things that people have done to her in her past?  Does she, or has she just "thrown away" relationships with her friends and family members in the past?
 
3. And as been said before, how is her relationship with her family?
 
Many guys focus on how the girl treats them, how effectionate she is, and how sweet she is.  I believe this is only a small part of what needs to be considered.  How the girl treats other people will determine how she is going to treat you in the future after the shine comes off the relationship.  If she shows coldness, and harbors long term ill feelings toward others, you will eventually be on this list.
 
Much space on the board here has been taken up with how much time is necessary to get to know one of these girls before making the big decision and popping the question.  I say just enough time to see her in her true element, and enough time to see her when she's having a bad day, when she's on her period, when she's annoyed.  Enough time for her to relax from her "best behavior".  If the guy doesn't speak spanish very well, this should add to the time.
 
My ex wife was estranged from her family, living alone in Cali, and angry with her Mom and sister.  I saw coldness and suspiciousness in some of her behaviors with other people, but she was always sweet to me in the beginning, and for several years.  I saw her ability to just write people out of her life early on in the relationship.
 
People and girls that are just generally angry in nature under the surface, expect people in their lives to eventually "wrong" them.  From the beginning, they start keeping a tab, and all the little mistakes that their partner makes, continue to add up til the page is full, and they then have justification for writing one more person out of their life.  After 10 years, her increasing coldness had taken a toll on me, and I was also ready for a change. 

Excellent post JWR, great advice, and very eerie for me to read it.  The above describes my ex-wife perfectly.


She was Canadian.

[Elexpatriado]

This is a lot more truthful and honest than "if it doesnt work put, jus get anoter one, divorce is no big deal"
 
When you startto think about it , you really wonder why anyone would et married in the 1st place...

[Elexpatriado]

Its sooo.... easy to find red flags....

[fathertime]

hi Jwr...that was a very interesting post...thanks for making it...i think most married men can relate to at least parts of it. 




in your first regret: i think i would have drawn a different conclusion if it were to happen with me....you had every right/reason to say something or take action when you were being ignored for months because of her good friend 'visiting'  and sponging...i could see a couple weeks or something but not for months...if you don't mind me asking, how would you handle that differently now?


Thanks,
Fathertime! 

[mambocowboy]

Ive had almost three years now since my divorce with my wife from Pereira to think about my part in the break up, her part in the break up and how this all fits together.  I've come up with several ideas that might help keep some of you new guys from going through what I've gone through.
 
Before you buy a ring:

1.  Watch how she treats other people around her very carefully.  Is she impatient with the waiter at the restaraunt, does she anger easily with her family, and those people around her?
 
2.  Is she angry with people in her past that have "wronged" her.  Has she been able to move on, or forgive things that people have done to her in her past?  Does she, or has she just "thrown away" relationships with her friends and family members in the past?
 
3. And as been said before, how is her relationship with her family?
 
Many guys focus on how the girl treats them, how effectionate she is, and how sweet she is.  I believe this is only a small part of what needs to be considered.  How the girl treats other people will determine how she is going to treat you in the future after the shine comes off the relationship.  If she shows coldness, and harbors long term ill feelings toward others, you will eventually be on this list.
 
Much space on the board here has been taken up with how much time is necessary to get to know one of these girls before making the big decision and popping the question.  I say just enough time to see her in her true element, and enough time to see her when she's having a bad day, when she's on her period, when she's annoyed.  Enough time for her to relax from her "best behavior".  If the guy doesn't speak spanish very well, this should add to the time.
 
My ex wife was estranged from her family, living alone in Cali, and angry with her Mom and sister.  I saw coldness and suspiciousness in some of her behaviors with other people, but she was always sweet to me in the beginning, and for several years.  I saw her ability to just write people out of her life early on in the relationship.
 
People and girls that are just generally angry in nature under the surface, expect people in their lives to eventually "wrong" them.  From the beginning, they start keeping a tab, and all the little mistakes that their partner makes, continue to add up til the page is full, and they then have justification for writing one more person out of their life.  After 10 years, her increasing coldness had taken a toll on me, and I was also ready for a change.  Since we didn't have kids, and with my attitude of "relationships are volunteers only".  She had an easy exit.
 
Often guys here wonder what the guy did to mess things up.  So here goes with my screwups.
 
Number 1 screwup I regret the most.
Her best friend like a sister came to visit indefinately, and got off the plane with 100 bucks.  My wife was going to nursing school, and I was basically living like a single guy getting almost zero attention from her at the time.  After her friend arrived, she spent all of her little spare time with her friend, and I got no attention at all.  (Big deal....we had been married for years at the time, and this should not have bothered me so much.) Her friend also lived off of us for months contributing nothing.  I stupidly made some comments to my wife about her friend sponging off of us indefinately, and I know now that the marriage was over in her mind that day. (The cost of the food she was eating was really nothing, and I was being petty.) It was only a matter of time before we filed, and the clock was ticking.
Never get between a good friend or family member with your wife....duh!
 
Number 2 regret.
My wife was fiercely independent, lived alone in Cali, and was highly intelligent.  She often made comments about taking off on an adventure of her own on a motorcycle, sailing a small boat someplace singlehanded, or taking the truck on a Mexico adventure by herself.  I did not fully understand her need to do some things on her own, and not always be tied to me in every activity.  We had already sailed 15000 miles together, lived in other countries, and had all sorts of adventures, and I thought that was enough adventures.  I should have went ahead and encouraged her to go ahead and get the damn motorcycle that she was dreaming about..
If you see signs of your wife feeling trapped, or her need to feel more independent, listen carefully, and help her to make whatever she needs to do happen.  Hopefully she will go have her adventure, then come back.
 
Regret 3. 
Before we were married I took salsa lessons, danced with her in Cali, and took part in that part of the culture.  I really don't enjoy dancing, and after we were married, we stopped going dancing.  She wanted to take tango classes together, and I kept avoiding it.  She put up with sailing across oceans with me, but I selfishly wouldn't go dancing with her.....Duh!
Keep dancing with your wife no matter if you like it or not...
 
Regret 4.  After work, I often was too freakin lazy to go to the gym with her, or take a yoga class with her.
Should have got up off my azz and went to the gym with her.
Get up and go to the gym with your wife.  Weight lift and stay strong for her.
 
Ok that's 4 and there are more small ones.  During our marriage of 10 years, I encouraged my wife and was supportive of pretty much anything she wanted to do.  She started many activities such as guitar, and then later quit.  She's generally not a very satisfied person with things, and is not easily pleased.  Even though her English is perfect, her communication skills are terrible.  If I would have known how important some of these things were to her, I would have made some changes.   A thickhead married to a girl who doesn't communicate well, is not a good combination.  After years of marriage, it's just too easy to get too comfortable, and let some things go stale.   Better to stay sharp if you can....
 
Hindsight is 20/20
 
And for those of you guys that are married to one of these pretty girls, and think you have the world by the azz, and you're marriage is indestructable, I encourage you to look in the mirror, and ask yourself if you are being your best.  Open up lines of communication  with your wife, and encourage her to tell you what is on her mind.  Directly ask her what you can do for her to improve the marriage.  Don't get too comfortable, and don't get lazy.

Thanks JWR for posting this. I think you're being a little hard on yourself re: the failure of the marriage considering she sounds like a really poor candidate for marriage. Holding grudges, a lust for independence, and poor family relationships create the perfect mix for marital failure...The two things you wrote that stood out to me the most and are pure gold are: 1) "People and girls that are just generally angry in nature under the surface, expect people in their lives to eventually "wrong" them.  From the beginning, they start keeping a tab, and all the little mistakes that their partner makes, continue to add up til the page is full, and they then have justification for writing one more person out of their life," and "Many guys focus on how the girl treats them, how effectionate she is, and how sweet she is.  I believe this is only a small part of what needs to be considered.  How the girl treats other people will determine how she is going to treat you in the future after the shine comes off the relationship.  If she shows coldness, and harbors long term ill feelings toward others, you will eventually be on this list." Great advice.....

[JWR]

The way I handled it, I ended looking like a cheapskate.
 
My wife's friend that came to visit is a very nice person, we had shared an apartment for a year in Cali with her, and she is easy to live with.  Her friend at the time was the most important person in her life besides me.  By my reaction to feeling neglected, I made her friend feel uncomfortable in our home.   Also, this made my wife feel like it wasn't "our" home, and like she was just a guest in my home also.......(after 7 years)  That is a terrible outcome, my wife feeling that way, and I know she never forgave me for this.  Believe me I quickly realized my wrong and apologised for my words. Some words can NOT be taken back with latinas.
 
We had enough room for her friend to live with us for a while, and the cost of the food is nothing to me.  Having two pretty Colombianas in our home is not such a bad thing looking back. 
 
If I had it to do over again, I would just tell my wife that I miss our time together, and ask her to schedule some time in for me.  Up until she went to nursing school, I got plenty of attention.  I would also make sure that her friend felt welcome in our home for as long as she wanted to stay.  Even if she would have ended up staying for a year, it would have been a whole lot better then the way it turned out.  There's plenty of room around here now.
 
There simply has to be plenty of room for forgiveness in a marriage.  In 10 years, I did so many nice things for my wife, but some girls will just focus on the mistakes you make, and forget the good parts.  Best to marry a forgiving girl who will fight for the marriage to work in hard times, and not give up.
 
 
 
 

hi Jwr...that was a very interesting post...thanks for making it...i think most married men can relate to at least parts of it. 




in your first regret: i think i would have drawn a different conclusion if it were to happen with me....you had every right/reason to say something or take action when you were being ignored for months because of her good friend 'visiting'  and sponging...i could see a couple weeks or something but not for months...if you don't mind me asking, how would you handle that differently now?
 
Thanks for understanding.  So if you found yourself in the same situation next month, how do you think you would handle the situation in your home?



Thanks,
Fathertime!

[Elexpatriado]

The main thing is communication.. if you had communicated withher how long your freind was with you right from the beginning, and put a date on it- and both agrees -thats OK. Freinds and family are important in Colombia, but no one wants someone leaching off of the forever- what starts off as something small can snowball, peole take advantage of you, and before you know it you have 10 illegal Colombians living in your house, and the neighbours complaining about  a drop in house prices..
 

The way I handled it, I ended looking like a cheapskate.
 
My wife's friend that came to visit is a very nice person, we had shared an apartment for a year in Cali with her, and she is easy to live with.  Her friend at the time was the most important person in her life besides me.  By my reaction to feeling neglected, I made her friend feel uncomfortable in our home.   Also, this made my wife feel like it wasn't "our" home, and like she was just a guest in my home also.......(after 7 years)  That is a terrible outcome, my wife feeling that way, and I know she never forgave me for this.  Believe me I quickly realized my wrong and apologised for my words. Some words can NOT be taken back with latinas.
 
We had enough room for her friend to live with us for a while, and the cost of the food is nothing to me.  Having two pretty Colombianas in our home is not such a bad thing looking back. 
 
If I had it to do over again, I would just tell my wife that I miss our time together, and ask her to schedule some time in for me.  Up until she went to nursing school, I got plenty of attention.  I would also make sure that her friend felt welcome in our home for as long as she wanted to stay.  Even if she would have ended up staying for a year, it would have been a whole lot better then the way it turned out.  There's plenty of room around here now.
 
There simply has to be plenty of room for forgiveness in a marriage.  In 10 years, I did so many nice things for my wife, but some girls will just focus on the mistakes you make, and forget the good parts.  Best to marry a forgiving girl who will fight for the marriage to work in hard times, and not give up.

[mambocowboy]

what also happens is that moving to a new country and getting married automatically changes these women. Their old identity is gone and they have to create a new one. Hopefully your wife has "fundamentos" to help her cope in healthy ways....It's commonly accepted on this forum that guys should seek professional women. But my wife was a supervising nurse in Colombia, and right now that identity is gone. She's a wife and mother here. She misses making her own money  and would rather not be financially dependent on me. That is an adjustment for her, as well as her family since they were relying on her for economic support. Once our kids are school age my wife can pursue her career again and make a ton more money than she ever made in Colombia...Once the honeymoon phase in these relationships  is over, you're left with the same challenges as any other married couple, not to mention the added challenges of helping your wife adjust to a new world....

[JWR]

what also happens is that moving to a new country and getting married automatically changes these women. Their old identity is gone and they have to create a new one. Hopefully your wife has "fundamentos" to help her cope in healthy ways....It's commonly accepted on this forum that guys should seek professional women. But my wife was a supervising nurse in Colombia, and right now that identity is gone. She's a wife and mother here. She misses making her own money  and would rather not be financially dependent on me. That is an adjustment for her, as well as her family since they were relying on her for economic support. Once our kids are school age my wife can pursue her career again and make a ton more money than she ever made in Colombia...Once the honeymoon phase in these relationships  is over, you're left with the same challenges as any other married couple, not to mention the added challenges of helping your wife adjust to a new world....

And then you have some challenges finding time to keep your relationship fun and strong.  As your wife goes back to nursing school to get licensed here, starts taking classes, and studying night and day, and taking care of the kids on top of it all, you may end up feeling like a bachelor again, because there is nothing left for you but scraps of her time.  You're married, and have a nice lady, but you might seldom see her, or when you do, she's tired and stressed.  It's all about ballance in the end.  If you married a lady with alot of drive, you may end up feeling like you are #3 on her priority list down the road..  (Of course I'm interjecting my situation into this post, but it's just something to think about)
 
All of our identities are tied into feeling productive, and for some of these girls independence.  It's hard for these ladies to give up their careers when they come here.

 
Obviously it would be better if all decisions could be made with keeping the family unit strong as a major objective.   If the relationship falls apart, and you end up divorced in the end, then the fact that she became a highly paid RN working in the US won't end up helping your family much.
 
I think it's good to go through some of these various scenarios in your head before they come up.  It all gets pretty complex.  Relationship 1st, and everything else comes 2nd.

[mambocowboy]

And then you have some challenges finding time to keep your relationship fun and strong.  As your wife goes back to nursing school to get licensed here, starts taking classes, and studying night and day, and taking care of the kids on top of it all, you may end up feeling like a bachelor again, because there is nothing left for you but scraps of her time.  You're married, and have a nice lady, but you might seldom see her, or when you do, she's tired and stressed.  It's all about ballance in the end.  If you married a lady with alot of drive, you may end up feeling like you are #3 on her priority list down the road..  (Of course I'm interjecting my situation into this post, but it's just something to think about)
 
All of our identities are tied into feeling productive, and for some of these girls independence.  It's hard for these ladies to give up their careers when they come here.

 
Obviously it would be better if all decisions could be made with keeping the family unit strong as a major objective.   If the relationship falls apart, and you end up divorced in the end, then the fact that she became a highly paid RN working in the US won't end up helping your family much.
 
I think it's good to go through some of these various scenarios in your head before they come up.  It all gets pretty complex.  Relationship 1st, and everything else comes 2nd.

we've discussed these things already. We've agreed that marriage and kids come first. Hopefully she won't have to do much nursing school like your wife did since she already has a university degree in nursing. And we've talked about how a per diem or half time position would be more realistic for her while still raising kids. I work with a lot of Filipina nurses who take really poor care of themselves and work a lot of overtime to support their lifestyle plus their families back home. They grew up poor and go overboard with their pursuit of money here. Ironically, because they're working all the time and take poor care of themselves, they end up with a lot of physical ailments and some die soon after retiring.....The working phase for my wife is quite a ways off, but at this point we're both in agreement that her income will be a supplement and not a full time deal...