Syria....here we go again...

[Ray]

Of course Obama wants credit for it because it wasn't a disaster. If the mission had been a complete failure Obama would have played the blame game or dummied up like he did with Benghazi.

And this is exactly the point!
 
Yes, I give Obama credit for killing Bin Laden because it happened on his watch. Was it a heroic decision that he made? No, just a common sense decision for any president.
 
BUT, why can'y Obam take credit for his failures just like he gladly takes credit for his successes? Because he is a "phony" and he will NEVER take responsibility for anything that he screws up!
 
The Obama apologists can cry "Ben freakin gazi.....who cares?" all day long, but that doesn't excuse him or Hillary from the lies, coverups, and gross incompetence that got 4 Americans killed in Benghazi.
 
We should be thankful that at least some opposition Republicans are demanding answers and the truth, while Obama and his cronies lie, cheat, and try to cover up their incompetence. Yes, "Ben freakin gazi" will be repeated in another foreign post soon of we don't get to the bottom of this obvious cover-up and fix the problems.
 
 
Ray
 
 

[bcc_1_2]

Believe what you want this decision was a no brainer.

Well the option was McCain or Obama and I've posted the clip before. McCain said no to going into Pakistan several times over the course of the campaign. Obama said he'd do it. You'd have to assume McCain either lied about his policy or would change his policy on this issue. It's possible that he would have changed it and possible he would not have. From the beginning Obama was willing to go into Pakistan. Kudos to him for that.

[Researcher]

Well the option was McCain or Obama and I've posted the clip before. McCain said no to going into Pakistan several times over the course of the campaign. Obama said he'd do it. You'd have to assume McCain either lied about his policy or would change his policy on this issue. It's possible that he would have changed it and possible he would not have. From the beginning Obama was willing to go into Pakistan. Kudos to him for that.

Coulda, shoulda, woulda.....to know for sure isn't possible but then we know that all politicians do what they say they will...right? LOL! All Obama did was continue the Bush policies anyway. Bailouts and the continuing wars. BTW, didn't Obama say he was going to shut Gitmo down? Wha' hap'n? Bottom line is that Obama is a lousy leader. The media keeps spinning his failures so he will leave a good legacy as the first black president. Meanwhile we have massive unemployment and a foreign policy that is a disaster.

[bcc_1_2]

Coulda, shoulda, woulda.....to know for sure isn't possible but then we know that all politicians do what they say they will...right?

As long as money and special interests are involved in politics you can't trust anybody.

All Obama did was continue the Bush policies anyway. Bailouts and the continuing wars. BTW, didn't Obama say he was going to shut Gitmo down? Wha' hap'n? Bottom line is that Obama is a lousy leader.

Wars can't end overnight. With the existing wars and gitmo Obama was on clean-up patrol. I'd rather point the finger at the geniuses that start the problems not the people that get it dumped in their laps.
The banks are bigger than ever. They do need to be broken up. The bank bail out was a mess. The main issue was instead of taking an ownership stake we gave them cheap money. The bigger the risk (meaning the more in trouble a company is) the higher the interest on loans and generally equity is involved... IE venture capital. The government would be called socialist for requiring ownership... yet in the free market economy that's exactly how it works. I don't mind a bank bail-out as long as the average American gets a fair shake. A fair shake would have required a heavy equity stake. That would have gone towards paying down the debt after the stock market and economy came back.
The auto bail-out doesn't bother me as much due to the jobs that were saved not only with the auto companies but their suppliers. I just think we should have gotten a better deal because GM and Chrysler came begging.
But yes it is all talk. Technically Obama is in favor of the 28% top tax bracket that most republicans support if it means ending all tax loopholes. I can't see that happening. GE got away without paying any taxes and they were quite profitable... so the way I see it regardless of if it is Mitt or Obama my tax rate will suck... the people at the bottom will leach when they can... and the people at the top will rig the system to avoid taxation.

[fathertime]

As long as money and special interests are involved in politics you can't trust anybody

The hypocrisy of these politicians is breathtaking....listen to obozo here and then think about what has happened since he made this bold accusation...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUaF5spn6fg


Fathertime! 

[bcc_1_2]

The hypocrisy of these politicians is breathtaking....listen to obozo here and then think about what has happened since he made this bold accusation...

eh not impressed. The problem with dems has been not working towards a balanced budget. Obama is one branch of the government and the cooperation isn't there to accomplish anything. If Obama was a dictator you'd have a point with your video.
the problem with some republicans is that they can't do math. They just want to cut taxes and don't offer real spending cuts and still suggest the budget deficit will shrink.
Now that republicans, for the first time in a long time, seem wary of military action and international policing we may actually be able to touch defense spending. That'd be fantastic.
But it is a combination of tax cuts and revenue hikes that balance a budget. The reality is Mitt Romney and the ultra wealthy need to be at the 28% rate that republicans say they want and not the 12% rate that Mitt pays through utilizing loopholes.

[fathertime]

eh not impressed.

1.  Maybe in your financially/emotionally sheltered life, it has been important for you to be 'impressed'..but here nobody gives a sheet if you are 'impressed'...or should we all just bow before you, and hope you give your blessing?


2.  The video illustrates the hypocrisy of obozo..as he criticized the prior administration over the deficits it was running, and now his have been much worse regarding the debt...So would he now call himself unpatriotic?


3.  You have become an apologist for obozo...your POV should not be taken very seriously until you become less partisan. 


4.  Very few would disagree about the wealthy being taxed at more than 12%, but as usual, you just made up that number regarding Romney...the fact is he paid between 13-20% federal taxes over the past 2 decades or so...I think that is too low given the country's financial obligations now, but pointing out your intentional misrepresentation is always fun to do.


Fathertime!










 

[bcc_1_2]

...the fact is he paid between 13-20% federal taxes over the past 2 decades or so...

The only info I ever had access to was 2010 and 2011... the only returns he released. In 2011 he paid 250k more than he had to so he essentially selected his own tax rate. After the election he still had time to retroactively amend that return to get the 250k back as well. Seems like trickery at its finest to me.
He made no other returns available... so I can only go with what he releases not what you speculate.

[fathertime]

The only info I ever had access to was 2010 and 2011... the only returns he released. In 2011 he paid 250k more than he had to so he essentially selected his own tax rate. After the election he still had time to retroactively amend that return to get the 250k back as well. Seems like trickery at its finest to me.
He made no other returns available... so I can only go with what he releases not what you speculate.

+


YOU just speculated that he used some 'trickery' and retroactively took 250K back after the election. 


After fact checking you, your 12% figure was incorrect.  As you often do,  you just pulled that number from your arse. Or perhaps you can supply the credible source as I did.    [size=78%] [/size]


Below  is a CNN money link that contradicts your 12% figure....in addition it Price Waterhouse Coopers, the tax preparation company has vouched that Romney's AVERAGE tax rate was 20.2% from the period 1990-2009..that is a far cry from the 12% figure that you are carelessly throwing around.  The tax prep giant, seems a little more credible than what 'bcc' has to say on the issue.     Now regardless, I think the ultra wealthy don't pay enough nowadays...the debt will require that we pay more whether we like it or not...In addition, I feel we need to cut the military budget, one reason is because our Presidents are starting to misuse it.  It is a time where most citizens feel we should be focusing internally and investing in our own country...the rest of the world should be on its own...for the most part.


http://money.cnn.com/2012/09/21/pf/taxes/romney-tax-return/index.html


Fathertime! 

[Researcher]

As long as money and special interests are involved in politics you can't trust anybody.Wars can't end overnight. With the existing wars and gitmo Obama was on clean-up patrol. I'd rather point the finger at the geniuses that start the problems not the people that get it dumped in their laps.
The banks are bigger than ever. They do need to be broken up. The bank bail out was a mess. The main issue was instead of taking an ownership stake we gave them cheap money. The bigger the risk (meaning the more in trouble a company is) the higher the interest on loans and generally equity is involved... IE venture capital. The government would be called socialist for requiring ownership... yet in the free market economy that's exactly how it works. I don't mind a bank bail-out as long as the average American gets a fair shake. A fair shake would have required a heavy equity stake. That would have gone towards paying down the debt after the stock market and economy came back.
The auto bail-out doesn't bother me as much due to the jobs that were saved not only with the auto companies but their suppliers. I just think we should have gotten a better deal because GM and Chrysler came begging.
But yes it is all talk. Technically Obama is in favor of the 28% top tax bracket that most republicans support if it means ending all tax loopholes. I can't see that happening. GE got away without paying any taxes and they were quite profitable... so the way I see it regardless of if it is Mitt or Obama my tax rate will suck... the people at the bottom will leach when they can... and the people at the top will rig the system to avoid taxation.

"Wars can't end over night"....why not? It surely doesn't take the time Obama has taken either. Sounds like excuses the liberal media makes for a failure of a president. The bailouts were a continuation of the Bush policies. Obama doesn't know what he is doing and the media covers up and makes excuses for him.

[Researcher]

Who cares about Romney, McCain, Bush etc....the bottom line is Obama was elected and he has proven to be a big failure. Why are people so afraid to admit that? Instead they make excuses and try to draw attention to other people and what they "woulda done".....that is useless. As soon as the US can get over the first black president then we can get back to reality.

[Ray]

If Obama was a dictator you'd have a point with your video.

　
But Obama does think and act like a dictator. He makes his own laws and ignores the laws he doesn’t like. It is obvious to any fool that he flat out lied when he took his oath of office.

the problem with some republicans is that they can't do math.

　
The problem with Democrats is that NONE of them can do math. Here’s a good example…
　
"…it is a combination of tax cuts and revenue hikes that balance a budget."
　
Since the Democrat dictionary defines "revenue" as just another phony word for "taxes", the author’s silly claim that tax cuts and tax hikes balance a budget is just pure nonsense. You want to guess who said that? DUH!   
　

Now that republicans, for the first time in a long time, seem wary of military action and international policing we may actually be able to touch defense spending. That'd be fantastic.

　
Huh? Where have you been the past couple of years?? Under Obama’s "sequestration" plan, mandatory defense spending cuts are already underway. You should really pay more attention…
　
Question? Why this continuing obsession with Romney? Romney is not even involved in politics any more, so forget Romney and Bush, and start holding Obama accountable for his own failures, if you can...
　
Ray

[bcc_1_2]

　
But Obama does think and act like a dictator.

Can't imagine a dictator asking for approval from congress to go to war.

[bcc_1_2]

+

YOU just speculated that he used some 'trickery' and retroactively took 250K back after the election. 

I did not speculate he paid more in taxes than he actually did in 2011. I did however speculate that after the election he might want his 250k back. That's pure speculation just like you speculating on his tax returns for the last decades. I don't want some organization to "vouch"... I prefer a candidate just release them. Bottom line... he isn't paying anywhere near 28%.
Granted I can't know if Romney got his 250k back anymore than you know what was really was on those tax returns that he did not release.

[Researcher]

　
Question? Why this continuing obsession with Romney? Romney is not even involved in politics any more, so forget Romney and Bush, and start holding Obama accountable for his own failures, if you can...
　
Ray

It is only a tactic to draw attention away from Obama's failure. There really is no defending it so the only way to deal with it is to draw conclusions from hypothetical presidents. Truth is foreign policy is a shambles and the situation here at home is dire. All Obama can do is go play golf and rub elbows with celebrities. To hell with the everyday citizen....let them eat cake.

[bcc_1_2]

Who cares about Romney, McCain, Bush etc....the bottom line is Obama was elected and he has proven to be a big failure.

He's a much better commander in chief than we had before in Bush... and Clinton for that matter as he basically ignored Osama's terrorist attacks of the 1990s.
Politics are strange... my concern generally just stems around tax rates at this point. For example... my healthcare coverage is in good shape and I've got no personal stake in it. Bob Dole and the republicans came out with a plan to compete against Hillary Clinton's in the 1990s. Eventually Mitt Romney implemented it in his state and then Obama got it passed in congress. It's just entertaining and sad how Obama is enemy number 1 for passing the Bob Dole republican healthcare plan.
Like a particular policy or not... it's hard to imagine anything positive getting done... not because Obama is a terrible President... but because they don't want to let the guy have credit for anything. He could be a horrible President, he could be an average President... but I have no idea and I don't think we'll find out.
 

[bcc_1_2]

All Obama can do is go play golf and rub elbows with celebrities.

And Bush spent all his time at his ranch in Crawford, Texas. And that'd be fine as long as he read the memo on his desk that Al Qaeda was planning attacks inside the US and looked into what he could do about it. Which was highlighted with the 911 commission.
I don't fault Romney for paying as little as possible. I'm not blaming him for it or saying he did something illegal. I'm just saying that he should pay 28%... and GE should pay 28%... and everyone else in the top 1% should pay 28%. And we should have representative government that makes that the law of the land.

[fathertime]

I did not speculate he paid more in taxes than he actually did in 2011. I did however speculate that after the election he might want his 250k back. That's pure speculation just like you speculating on his tax returns for the last decades. I don't want some organization to "vouch"... I prefer a candidate just release them. Bottom line... he isn't paying anywhere near 28%.
Granted I can't know if Romney got his 250k back anymore than you know what was really was on those tax returns that he did not release.

Bottom line is you falsified the 12% number which is a normal tactic for you.  I have not seen one reference other than you coming up with that number outta your arse. 


I provided a link, where his tax company made a statement as to how much he paid in taxes in the years 1990-2009...nobody cares what you would 'prefer' to see...they are probably credible and Romney probably did pay the relatively modest rate like they say he did...thus far you are purely speculating and distorting facts to fit your narrative...I've provided much more than just pure speculation. 


Nobody was arguing Romney did not play 28% so the only purpose to bring that up is to distract from the earlier lies you wrote here.  If you are going to act like a partisan hack and not debate honestly then, you can expect to get called out on it time and time again. 


Fathertime! 

[Researcher]

He's a much better commander in chief than we had before in Bush... and Clinton for that matter as he basically ignored Osama's terrorist attacks of the 1990s.
Politics are strange... my concern generally just stems around tax rates at this point. For example... my healthcare coverage is in good shape and I've got no personal stake in it. Bob Dole and the republicans came out with a plan to compete against Hillary Clinton's in the 1990s. Eventually Mitt Romney implemented it in his state and then Obama got it passed in congress. It's just entertaining and sad how Obama is enemy number 1 for passing the Bob Dole republican healthcare plan.
Like a particular policy or not... it's hard to imagine anything positive getting done... not because Obama is a terrible President... but because they don't want to let the guy have credit for anything. He could be a horrible President, he could be an average President... but I have no idea and I don't think we'll find out.

And once again others are mentioned to draw attention away from Obama's failures. The middle east is in turmoil and the US economy is still a wreck after 5 years of Obama. There has been no improvement on either front. People have never been so divided in this country since Obama took office. The list goes on as does the excuses from liberal progressives.

[fathertime]

And Bush spent all his time at his ranch in Crawford, Texas. And that'd be fine as long as he read the memo on his desk that Al Qaeda was planning attacks inside the US and looked into what he could do about it. Which was highlighted with the 911 commission.
I don't fault Romney for paying as little as possible. I'm not blaming him for it or saying he did something illegal. I'm just saying that he should pay 28%... and GE should pay 28%... and everyone else in the top 1% should pay 28%. And we should have representative government that makes that the law of the land.

I agree that the wealthy should be paying more, there is probably too many tax breaks at this point...in addition I think that everybody else has to pony up some too....I think we should have more sequesters, perhaps even deeper across the board cuts...17trillion is a big hole so we gotta stop the bleeding.  All the nation's money should be spent in house..not bombing or supply arms to help the 'rebels' in Syria...or anything of the like...


Fathertime!   

[bcc_1_2]

Bottom line is you falsified the 12% number which is a normal tactic for you.

Busted, you got me. Mitt only paid 12% if he claimed his 250k retroactively. Mitt was asked if he paid over 12% on his taxes by the media. Mitt said yes. Because of that he had to make his return actually reflect that.
Now Mitt ran as a good businessman that could turn around the economy. He's stated on the record that he only pays what he's legally required to as any good businessman would. So he has a history of only paying what's required (so do I). So we can either assume Mitt overpaid on his taxes and he's a moron... or he was playing politics and after the election he got his money.
You are working extra hard to defend a guy who is loaded. Maybe next you can back up why GE got off paying nothing and why I get hosed.

[Researcher]

And Bush spent all his time at his ranch in Crawford, Texas. And that'd be fine as long as he read the memo on his desk that Al Qaeda was planning attacks inside the US and looked into what he could do about it. Which was highlighted with the 911 commission.
I don't fault Romney for paying as little as possible. I'm not blaming him for it or saying he did something illegal. I'm just saying that he should pay 28%... and GE should pay 28%... and everyone else in the top 1% should pay 28%. And we should have representative government that makes that the law of the land.

Bush's presidency and Romney's taxes are the liberal equivalent to "look" there's a squirrel!". Obama is a failure despite the red herrings that are thrown to cover the stench of his presidency.

[bcc_1_2]

And once again others are mentioned to draw attention away from Obama's failures. The middle east is in turmoil and the US economy is still a wreck after 5 years of Obama.

What would you like Obama to propose? Whatever he does propose will be dead on arrival. He signs the bills into law after congress passes them. I don't think you are fairly assigning blame. There is plenty to go around. The middle east, fairies, abortion, etc are yes all indeed distractions... and they work well... go look up old threads that have many posters here all worked up about gays.

[fathertime]

Busted, you got me. Mitt only paid 12% if he claimed his 250k retroactively. Mitt was asked if he paid over 12% on his taxes by the media. Mitt said yes. Because of that he had to make his return actually reflect that.
 

Ok I am pleased that you have admitted that you bs'ed the earlier number.

 
You are working extra hard to defend a guy who is loaded. Maybe next you can back up why GE got off paying nothing and why I get hosed.

I couldn't give 2 craps about Romney...he and other successful businessmen like him need to pay more in taxes since it is the organization and infrastructure within this country that help enable them to make their money..and the country needs the money at this point...I wasn't defending him as much as I was attacking the falsity of your argument, and the number you presented.   


Of course there has to be reasonable governmental spending cuts everywhere possible.  I really have serious questions on how this can even get done at this point, given the gridlock in congress, the graying population, and foreign entanglements we seem to always get into.


Fathertime! 

[bcc_1_2]

Bush's presidency and Romney's taxes are the liberal equivalent to "look" there's a squirrel!".

Both Bush and Clinton share credit for the housing bubble and financial crisis (as they allowed banks to keep less on reserve and do none banking things). That's not a distraction... history is important to learn from. It's why we should look back and understand we need to break up the banks.
Romney's taxes aren't a distraction. That's the bread and butter to me. It's not about Romney personally (well sure it was for the Dems in the campaign). He's just a rich guy that had to release his taxes... and Marla the Maid is saying "hey I pay a higher rate than him" and that's the problem. It is the 6 figures small business people that should be the most pissed off on taxes.