Syria....here we go again...

[fathertime]

I find it absolutely nauseating that we are likely going to to do airstrikes and involve ourselves in another conflict...just who the hell do we think we are...


1.  I, and many others around the world are not convinced that chemical weapons were used by the Assad regime at the exact moment weapons inspectors entered the country..
2.  Even if they were used, how does that give us 'authority' to enter their war...it wasn't too long ago that we used chemical weapons ourselves in wars...and now suddenly it is a 'moral obscenity' as that lying Kerry says...hypocrite
3.  Where is our congressional approval?  How is it that a sitting president gets to involve us in a war (that could turn into something big) without congress' approval...we have separation of powers EXACTLY for this reason, so one SOB can't get us in a war.
4.  The polling I have seen, shows 80%-90% of the American people DON"T want us to stick our busybody snout in this conflict...those Syrian idiots just gotta work out their own problems...


If Americans were in the streets with outrage over this (like they were for Trayvon Martin), then our president would possibly feel enough pressure to knock this crap off...but that will not happen unless the situation escalates...


Fathertime! 

[robert angel]

I find it absolutely nauseating that we are likely going to to do airstrikes and involve ourselves in another conflict...just who the hell do we think we are...


1.  I, and many others around the world are not convinced that chemical weapons were used by the Assad regime at the exact moment weapons inspectors entered the country..
2.  Even if they were used, how does that give us 'authority' to enter their war...it wasn't too long ago that we used chemical weapons ourselves in wars...and now suddenly it is a 'moral obscenity' as that lying Kerry says...hypocrite
3.  Where is our congressional approval?  How is it that a sitting president gets to involve us in a war (that could turn into something big) without congress' approval...we have separation of powers EXACTLY for this reason, so one SOB can't get us in a war.
4.  The polling I have seen, shows 80%-90% of the American people DON"T want us to stick our busybody snout in this conflict...those Syrian idiots just gotta work out their own problems...


If Americans were in the streets with outrage over this (like they were for Trayvon Martin), then our president would possibly feel enough pressure to knock this crap off...but that will not happen unless the situation escalates...


Fathertime!

I don't know if any war since WWII, was gone into with a formal declaration of war or with formal congressional approval. Not sure about Korea or Vietnam, but the president certainly has had 'his way' more often than not as 'commander in chief ' of the US Armed Forces and sent men and women overseas, with resultant deaths many times. And done so w/o declaration of war or majority congressional approval. There have been 'operations' where fatalities have occurred that the public has no knowledge of.
 
In terms of public reaction and military engagement, the media doesn't report it like it used to, due in part to govt. restrictions. When I was a kid, I remember seeing magazines that came to our house every week (Life, Time, Newsweek) with covers showing (in color) pictures of things like our American soldiers in Vietnam, dead and dying, strapped to tanks while retreating--all in horrific color. Today, the media is prohibited from even taking pictures of the flag draped caskets that regularly come off of our military cargo planes, returning our dead.
 
We don't have two wire services, UPI and AP competing anymore to bring sensational breaking news anymore. I think the media--what they choose to 'ignite' what they choose not to, and what they are prohibited from showing or revealing, makes a big difference between people protesting and otherwise being apathetic. Even the six o clock news is watered down, selective gruel--not hard, realistic news.
 
From the very beginning of the founding of the USA, our founding fathers were very adamant about how important it was that our country not become involved in foreign entanglements. I think it was really around 1898 that this sort of mess really started, with Teddy Roosevelt and the 'Rough Riders" but one should remember that even they were a voluntary cavalry outfit acting in Cuba against the Spanish. Isolationists and isolationism itself, continued to be popular right up until WWII, a war which many, looking back now with 20/20 vision now, feel we should've become involved in even earlier than we actually did.
 
I'm no big fan of govt. regulation and more laws, but It I think we need some of that to prevent US Presidents from being able to easily send our US troops, weapons and money to foreign powers.
 
 There's enough private contractors, full of ex US military personnel, to pretty much engage in any foreign conflict for pay as mercenaries, 'advisors'--whatever you want to call them. Some say a mark of the decline in civilization, as it was with the Roman Empire, is when you pay others to fight your wars for you. It's happening already. If we're going to get involved in a place like Syria, which like most of the Middle East, is a lost cause over the  long term, it's better to let those go who will go voluntarily for pay, then it is send our official US Military's men and women, who do not have the luxury of choosing.

[JWR]

The country is BROKE.  Again....the country is BROKE. Are we going to borrow the money from China to wage another war.  Our veteran heros are coming back from Iraq and Afganistan, and not getting the help they need. Over 300 days waiting to get disability benefits, and be evaluated.  We send our guys through the meat grinder, and then turn our backs on them when they return.  "Support our troops" is just a buzz line.  We need to clean up the mess that our leaders created in the last two wars before we even think about getting into another.  We have to stand up, stop fighting among ourselves, and get these morons out of office.
 
And it's so nice that we are "winding down" the war in Afganistan......how would you like to lose your son or daughter in the "wind down"?  Out now!  Not one more guy's life is worth losing in this mistake.  Our guy's lives are still on the line everyday over there, and you never hear anything about them in the press.  Ben freakin gazi.....who cares.  We have young guys still dying in Afganistan, and the idiots just want to talk about Bangazi...

[Calipro]

They finally figured out where all the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq went....SYRIA !!!


Looks like we are going in. War....government default over debt ceiling and Obama Care will cause the Dow Jones to drop below 10,000 by the end of the year......SELL NOW!

[Calipro]

The country is BROKE.  Again....the country is BROKE. Are we going to borrow the money from China to wage another war. 

China holds about  8% of the U.S. public debt....look in the bright side....at least they still believe in the good faith and credit of the USA.


The US doesn't borrow money from any one country in particular....just so happens that China likes to buy T bills.....Japan is a close second.


Kind of have to wonder what they are thinking....the national debt is rapidly  closing in on the record high of 113% of the GNP shortly after WWII.

[bcc_1_2]

I don't know if any war since WWII, was gone into with a formal declaration of war or with formal congressional approval.

We haven't. I always chuckle because pundits in the news every so often bitch and moan that this person or that person should be tried for treason. The irony is that is only legally possible if we actually go to war with someone.
As for Syria. I suspect it will be a NATO joint action. However in 89 Bush did go in and get Noriega in Panama. The Arab League even confirms chemical weapons have been used so taking out key military targets by air is probably going to happen. I can see Obama trying to drum up all this BOMB military installations hype while secretly trying to pull the same type of stunt that got Osama Bin Laden.
If nothing else it will probably just look like what happened in Libya. Does it make us safer in the USA? I don't know but you can't use chemicals on people. In the Iraq/Iran war Saddam used it on the Iranians.... the CIA knew about it and we did nothing about it as the Iranians complained in New York at the United Nations so it is true that chemical weapons have not always been a red line for us (even in the 1980s).

[bcc_1_2]

  Ben freakin gazi.....who cares.  We have young guys still dying in Afganistan, and the idiots just want to talk about Bangazi...

It's weird how we have a big terrorist attack on this country that we are unprepared for and everyone supports the President, but when a tiny terrorist attack happens overseas that we are unprepared for it becomes this scandal (granted only by a few loud voices). But I give you credit for seeing the obvious... that this stuff is a major distraction to the plain and clear fact that we are indeed broke and neither party has a plan to fix it.

The country is BROKE.  Again....the country is BROKE. Are we going to borrow the money from China to wage another war.  Our veteran heros are coming back from Iraq and Afganistan, and not getting the help they need.

The good news about what happened with Libya is that others got involved and we didn't foot the entire bill and responsibility. I think the Arab League should handle it. But nobody is suggesting an Iraq or Afghanistan invasion. NATO would basically focus on taking out military targets from the air. Our guys won't be getting shot at unless it is a surgical Seal Team 6 move. Assad is just a real bastard who will end up like Gaddafi unless he negotiates his exit from Syria. 

[robert angel]

China holds about  8% of the U.S. public debt....look in the bright side....at least they still believe in the good faith and credit of the USA.


The US doesn't borrow money from any one country in particular....just so happens that China likes to buy T bills.....Japan is a close second.
 
China and Japan have a vested interest in making sure the US economy stays afloat. Who buys all the stuff they send to Wal-Mart and the like--or Japanese automobiles?


Kind of have to wonder what they are thinking....the national debt is rapidly  closing in on the record high of 113% of the GNP shortly after WWII.

 
China and Japan have a vested interest in making sure the US economy stays afloat. Who buys all the stuff they send to Wal-Mart and the like--or Japanese automobiles? In today's economy, not only countries a big as Japan (which has been in an economic slump for decades now) and China--which is very adept at hiding their own, serious economic issues, effect our own economy.
 
But even smaller nation's with economic problems, like Spain, Ireland and Greece, can have substantial effects on our market reports and on stock and commodity prices.
 
Interesting how gold--a traditional economic refuge--or 'hedge fund' for nations concerned about a bigger nation's solvency and 'real' economic health, is being bought up in massive amounts by nations such as China, Japan and Russia.
 
Curious....Do many of you believe that the gold those countries (and other nations) are buying from the USA on 'paper' is ACTUALLY deposited and waiting in USA banks? I know no one bank, or banks, is/are designed to have enough deposits on hand to survive a 'run', where people go en masse to suddenly try to withdraw their deposits, but personally, I don't think that we actually have anywhere near the gold deposited--gold  theoretically 'bought' and supposedly payable on demand.
 
The way we record national debt since WWII compared to today is different. Back then, US currency was backed by gold and/or silver, payable 'on demand', but that seems oh so quaint, even archaic now.....

[V_Man]

I only know a little bit about Syrian history. I strongly recommend Americans learn about the history of that country before they get involved in anything there. It is difficult to see how any good final result could come from yet another western intervention in Syria.

[Ray]

 

[fathertime]

I figured we would see Ray's bomb! jaja




You know everytime I see interviews with the Syrian people..I see that the people supporting Assad appear to be well spoken, dressed normally and decent....whenever I see interviews from the 'rebels' they see like violent religion freaks...the hell with the 'rebels',


We should have shut the hell up and let them have it out...now that we have committed to the idiot 'rebels'...we are totally screwed... 


What the hell is the difference between dying from a bullet or buildings falling on their heads vs chemical weapons?  Obviously nobody knows for sure who used the weapons, but I don't blame the Assad regime for pulling out all the stops...they got a-hole 'rebels' beheading in the name of religion...I say KILL EM ALL...any means necessary, to end this thing...


BTW:  I definitely think that the US doesn't like that countries use chemical weapons because it can even the playing field to an extent...since nobody has stockpiles of conventional weapons like we do...  we should have just stayed out..all this "American exceptional-ism' crap has run it's course..our 'representatives' like McCain, Kerry, are idiot suckers for wasting our resources in that region...if we intervene we will widen the war, we will suffer casualties from terrorist attracts, and waste our money...to hell with them...we have plenty of other things to concern ourselves with..
Fathertime! 

[Ray]

I figured we would see Ray's bomb! jaja




You know everytime I see interviews with the Syrian people..I see that the people supporting Assad appear to be well spoken, dressed normally and decent....whenever I see interviews from the 'rebels' they see like violent religion freaks...the hell with the 'rebels',


We should have shut the hell up and let them have it out...now that we have committed to the idiot 'rebels'...we are totally screwed... 


What the hell is the difference between dying from a bullet or buildings falling on their heads vs chemical weapons?  Obviously nobody knows for sure who used the weapons, but I don't blame the Assad regime for pulling out all the stops...they got a-hole 'rebels' beheading in the name of religion...I say KILL EM ALL...any means necessary, to end this thing...


BTW:  I definitely think that the US doesn't like that countries use chemical weapons because it can even the playing field to an extent...since nobody has stockpiles of conventional weapons like we do...  we should have just stayed out..all this "American exceptional-ism' crap has run it's course..our 'representatives' like McCain, Kerry, are idiot suckers for wasting our resources in that region...if we intervene we will widen the war, we will suffer casualties from terrorist attracts, and waste our money...to hell with them...we have plenty of other things to concern ourselves with..
Fathertime!

 
jajaja!
 
The bomb was for those guys complaining about the monetary costs of going to war. Hell, we paid for all those stockpiled bombs a long time ago. For probably less than a million bucks, we could load one up on a cruise missile and shut all of these stinking jihadista up for a long while. That would be about the most cost effective way to "punish" Assad militarily.
 
You make some good points FT, but don't forget that the commie Ruskies, along with the jihadist Hesbolah and Iranians are on the ground fighting alongside Assad.
 
Dumbass Obama should have either done something a LONG time ago or kept his ignorant, incompetent mouth shut. Now that he has repeatedly tried to scare the Syrians with his stupid "red line" bloviating, and they have repeatedly ignored his empty threats by gassing thier citizens, this all becomes about Obama's pride and personal credibility. If he attacks that he is. Obama isn't fooling anyone on the planet except himself.
 
I don't hear any huge outcry from the world because Syria is using gas, not even from the leftist pinko pacifists. There are only a handful of countries pretending to be outraged.
 
Botton line: Obama is a phony, imcompetent bafoon who is in way over his head.
 
 

 
 
Ray
 
 

[robert angel]

Trying to go to war in these middle east nations is insane. Other than the obvious--that is to maintain a steady hand on the oil pipelines while we drill and store our oil domestically, we're wasting time, money and U.S. Military lives.
 
For thousands of years they have almost continuously gravitated back to strong, charismatic, religiously conservative (as least to outward appearances) dictator types. Like in the case of Sadaam Hussein, we often put them into power, only to later take them out later on.
 
They are no more likely to embrace democracy in any real form than are going to embrace hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolets.
 
Well, maybe they'll embrace Chevys....
 
I know where the 'weapons of mass destruction are! -->Kings Bay Naval site, with enough nuclear subs, armed with enough nuke equipped Trident missiles to wipe out the whole planet several times, the Savannah River Nuclear Plant...

[JWR]

Most of the world thinks that Bush / Cheney/ Rumsfield are war criminals.  So they think we haven't yet dealt with our own war criminals, and shouldn't be squawking about other country's war crimes.  The US is seen as the world's hypocrite.  100s of thousands of dead civilian Iraqis are not easily, and quickly forgotten by the people in that region.
 
Our ports are completely unsecured.  The millions of containers that come into our ports from ships all over the world are almost completely uninspected.  With a bribe to a freight forwarder within any of these shipping countries, anything can be shipped into our country including all sorts of nasty weapons.  The American people live under the "illusion" of National security.  Big grey ships, and big guns give the American people a total false sense security.  The ports are wide open, the borders are unsecured.  Anybody can attack us at anytime within our borders.  Anything we can do to mind our own business, and stop pissing people off abroad is the cheapest and best national security for a country that has now been bankrupted by over 12 years of stupid irresponsible arrogant administrations.
 
The vast majority of Americans believe that we should stay out of Syria, but our most recent elected fool Obama beats the war drum.  If he attacks Syria, we will pay with our own blood on our own soil.  The protests only begin after something stupid has been done, but after we are attacked on our own ground, people will finally get angry.
 
It's always the little people that pay the most dearly for Govt. leader's mistakes.  Never forget who the bombs are really dropping on when we attack.  The guy's who deserve it, are almost always hiding away in a bomb shelter.
 
 

[fathertime]

The nerve on our idiot unrepresentative 'representatives'...our people DO NOT want us to intervene in stupid Syria...Britain has rightfully backed down from supporting us because their house and their people also want them to stay the fvck out...just like we should...Meanwhile we send our fifth battleship into the region...


We have plenty of our own problems with OUR borders and corruption here to deal with yet our 'representatives' feel it is our duty to police an area we don't care much about...to pretend we are playing a game of Risk...


Obozo is losing more respect by the day, he doesn't have enough sense to listen to what the general public overwhelmingly wants on this issue, which is for us to mind our own damn business, instead of wagging our finger and dictating to the world what they need to be doing...


If we go forward with this and later suffer consequences, which we will...that is all on OBOZO...if he involves us.


Fathertime!

[Ray]

The nerve on our idiot unrepresentative 'representatives'...our people DO NOT want us to intervene in stupid Syria...Britain has rightfully backed down from supporting us because their house and their people also want them to stay the fvck out...just like we should...Meanwhile we send our fifth battleship into the region...


We have plenty of our own problems with OUR borders and corruption here to deal with yet our 'representatives' feel it is our duty to police an area we don't care much about...to pretend we are playing a game of Risk...


Obozo is losing more respect by the day, he doesn't have enough sense to listen to what the general public overwhelmingly wants on this issue, which is for us to mind our own damn business, instead of wagging our finger and dictating to the world what they need to be doing...


If we go forward with this and later suffer consequences, which we will...that is all on OBOZO...if he involves us.


Fathertime!

I have no problem with telling the world what they should be doing, and backing it up with military power, when it is clearly in our national interest or for our own security...
 
HOWEVER, who gives a rat's ass what Syria does to it's own citizens? If the other Islamiic countries don't like Assad gassing his own people, then let them call a Jihad on his stinking ass.
 
But of course the other Muslim countries don't care what he does as long as he keeps hating Israel. That's all that matters to them in the long run.
 
So I say go ahead and gas the hell out of your own people and let them complain to the Arab League or the Red Crescent, or whomever cares...
 
The United Nations is a worthless piece of shyt and Russia, Iran, and all of the Jihadists will stand with Assad and lick his arse because that's what they do...
 
 
Bye suckers...
 
 
 

[robert angel]

Obama's essentially a lame duck, unable to run for the presidency again and doesn't really care about how popular  the decisions he makes are anymore. Not to the people, not the voters, not to the democraptic party.

Seems all presidents, save pacifist Jimmy Carter, who probably actually had legitimate reasons to kick some foreign butt, (although he did not), inevitably give in to horrific cases of 'trigger itch' and end up sending US Soldiers to their deaths on swarmy foreign soil. They are  'commander in chief' and want to act 'decisive'.
 
Then after leaving office with nothing else to do with their lives, (how can you top being leader of the western world' --college president?) --they typically make more millions they can hardly spend, doing the lecture circuit. There, they can regale their misguided followers on the rubber chicken speech circuit with tales about how they "fought for democracy, even though it was the hard thing to do." HOGWASH.
 
Ironically, once you'be  become president, especially for two terms, you never really need money anymore--you really don't need anybody or anything other than privacy, which they'll never get. They live in a fishbowl.
 
Typically hotels and restaurants don't charge the president--they bill the govt. for his secret service details, but the prestige of having THE president, former or not, is too enticing for them to ask him to dig into his empty pockets. Especially while in office, presidents typically don't carry any money or credit cards on their bodies--no one will take them. Maybe a photo op or a signed napkin. Staffers even order his family gifts, etc. You can see why they, like the congress and the senate, with life long retirement right after leaving office w/o social security (they all have something much better & exclusive) , a unique health care program, that they can't really relate to 'us'.
 
What matters to them at that point is their power, influence and legacy. How they sent brave armies around the world to fight for 'democracy and freedom'. Bragging rights, presidential libraries and so on....

[bcc_1_2]

Obama's essentially a lame duck, unable to run for the presidency again and doesn't really care about how popular  the decisions he makes are anymore. Not to the people, not the voters, not to the democraptic party.

While many times I don't agree with his politics I do find days like today refreshing as despite what we hear over and over again... Obama does care about the people and the voters. He's letting congress vote on this when he doesn't have to. I won't say he cares about this democracy... because we aren't a democracy... he cares about this republic and his actions today show that. Romney took a beating in the last debate because he tried to criticize the President on Libya. In regards to winding down the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan... the President has done reasonably well. When it comes to handling Libya the President has done reasonably well. When it comes to killing Osama... the President did very well.
The surprise of his terms in office has been how well he's handled bad situations like this. Egypt is a mess... we can't export democracy to the Middle East. But we can protect or allies and show Iran that we do have hard-lines in the sand that cannot be crossed. The military action in Syria shows Iran that if they keep playing this game... they can have the same fate.
When it comes to accomplishing what we want militarily... Obama has done it a lot cheaper than the guy before him.  And that's the problem I have... just because I disagree with Obama doesn't mean I don't think he's trying to do his best for the average family in this country. And I can give him credit when he deserves it... for kicking this vote to congress... he deserves credit.

[fathertime]

I'm delighted that Obozo felt enough heat to where he is giving time to congress to debate and vote! There should be a separation of powers.


Fathertime!

[bcc_1_2]

I'm delighted that Obozo felt enough heat to where he is giving time to congress to debate and vote! There should be a separation of powers.

Fathertime!

He's getting an equal amount of pressure for waiting and not doing it now. You can't blame the pressure from one side as he is getting it about equally from both. His cabinet was against his decision. He seems to have made this one because he thought it was the right thing to do.

[fathertime]

He's getting an equal amount of pressure for waiting and not doing it now. You can't blame the pressure from one side as he is getting it about equally from both. His cabinet was against his decision. He seems to have made this one because he thought it was the right thing to do.

Well I do agree that he is getting pressure from all sides and it is hard to say why obozo changed his mind…he moved all the battleships over there and the rhetoric was leaning toward an immediate strike without any discussion….fast forward …now there are antiwar protests erupting which is great!    Regardless, on this issue he is 10 times better than McCain or Romney would have been….they would have already been giving those idiots heavy weaponry or even had boots on the ground (against the will of the American people)….I’m still not seeing  reason for us to stick our big snout in this mess…and I don’t blame Assad IF he used chemical weapons…he has a bunch of religious zealots decapitating anybody affiliated with him, including Christian minorities…screw the ‘rebels’ by whatever means necessary…no reason for Assad to hamstring himself…   We use drones to kill people and often accept collateral damage, I don’t see a difference between that and chemical weapons…so for the USA to get on a high horse is preposterous.   This should not even be on our radar screen, let alone be the primary issue for us.   


Fathertime!

[Ray]

He seems to have made this one because he thought it was the right thing to do.

ROTFLMAO!
 
After Obama had berated Bush about taking military action without congressional approval, and old Joe Biden promised to lead the impeachment of Bush if he didn't get congressional approval before taking military action, what choice did he have?
 
Since Obozo didn't want to prove once again what a phony hypocrite he is, or risk being impeached by Joe Biden, of course he had to pretend to want to ask for congressional approval.
 
Now with all this bluster by Obama and Kerry about the need to take action now against the evil Assad, why didn't he call an emergency session of congress? Becasue it wasn't important enough to bother those poor politicians during their vacation? What a phony!
 
While Obama stumbles, stutters, and keeps changing his mind on this, Syria is hiding their military assets which are obvious targets, and even moving the WMDs back into Iraq (ROFL), and the world is laughing at him.
 
Once again, this idiot is nothing but an incompetent bafoon who is in WAY over his head...
 
 
Note for FT: The US doesn't have any active battle ships. You must have heard that from CNN (?)   
 
 
Ray
 
 

[bcc_1_2]

Regardless, on this issue he is 10 times better than McCain or Romney would have been

Yep he's handling a bad situation about as well as one can. Unlike Iraq, the administration has actual evidence this stuff is presently being used and they are going to congress to handle this without American boots on the ground. I'm cool with it.

[Ray]

 
Well, well, well...
 
Now our cowardly, lying, phony president is denying that he made the "red line" statement that got us into the mess we are in today over Syria.
 
It's now too late to blame Bush for EVERYTHING, so Obozo is denying that it is his red line, but rather the world's red line. Can't this stupid little incompetent wimp take credit for ANY of his screw ups? Apparently not.
 
And now the butt-licking Democrats are lining up to parrot his phony claim that it isn't Obama's red line. Kerry. Pelosi, ... who else?
 
Who voted for this idiot anyway??
 
 
 
 
 

[Ray]

 
Obama:
 
“First of all, I didn’t set a ‘red line,’ the world set a red line”
 
"My credibility is not on the line.  The international community’s credibility is on the line.  And America’s and Congress’s credibility is on the line.”
 
 
Can you believe this arrogant little lying piece of crap? Ever time Obozo opens his mouth, he buries himself deeper in his stinking shyt.
 
Oh yeah, the leftist bozos on MSNBC are all lined up like the little butt-lickers that they are, agreeing that Obama didn't set any "red line". How freaking predictable...