The New Latin American Pope

[Diablo]

I'm a bit surprised no one has started this thread in the forum.


This could be big in Latin America or it could just mean nothing at all. I haven't always been a big fan of the catholic church but one girl I know has managed to get me researching more about the catholic church. She is one of the few devout spaniards I know.


What could be the implication in Latin America. I know there is a thread in the archives somewhere when Ratzinger became pope. Everyone on the board was saying there should be more focus on latin america.


What's your opinion about this move from the Vatican?


I'd appreciate it if the latinas in the forum chime in too since they are in the region they would know how this affects the region in a Good or Bad way.


Thanks

[braziliangirl]

I am not Catholic, so I don't follow its politics and don't know much about the implications. Telling by the comments I've been hearing, Brazilians would be more happy with an European pope than an Argentinian. We have the largest Catholic community in the world (even though it's more cultural than religious) and a big rivalry with Argentina (not just in soccer), so believe it or not, most of the comments are about how bad it is that he is Argentinian and not Brazilian.


I was praying for someone that would fight against what is wrong with the church and maybe be more modern, but Francisco's history shows he is conservative. There are some accusations of him being involved with the dictatorship era in Argentina. The good side is that he is a simple guy, from the Jesuit order, close to the people, with a heart for the poor and is already showing his simplicity by refusing to follow some symbolic and pompous traditions.

[Diablo]

lol yes, there was a tweet i read whereby it was said that argentines have big egos, but now the pope is from there, so they will be unbearable.


it's interesting to hear from someone in Brazil, since it's the country with the largest Catholic population in the world. What denomination are you? or are you just agnostic/athiest? were you catholic and then moved on to another denomination.


So tell me BG more about the religious dynamics. most of the people in Sao Paulo that i met claimed to be Catholics but I get the impression they are arm chair catholics. Even still i didn't come accross one since Evanglical. and it's quite odd since they are the fastest growing christians. unless the stats are wrong.

[Micky]

I like it a lot!  I was actually hoping for an African becoming Pope.  Being a life long Catholic I am pleased that now the last three Popes have NOT been Italian.  Nothing against the Italians,  but the run they had was beyond rediculous.  This is very good for several reasons.  One,  when the very young see that a person from their cultural group attains a extremely high position,  business,  political,  in this case,  religious,  I believe that it does give them (some) encouragement,  a better view of themselfs,  their opportunities and importance in this life.  In general I believe it does the same for a lot of people who's cultural group is not of the traditional ruling classes.  I hope that he is a good Pope more than I care where he is from.

BG -

"... that would fight against what is wrong with the church and maybe more modern,  but Francisco's history shows he is conservative."  -  BG


What does his being 'conservative'  have to do your hopes?  There certainly are things wrong in the Church,  there always will be,  as it is composed of people and we do err.  He did fly on a jet to Italy,  he did not go by way of wooden ship,  that is modern.

Micky

[Ray]

...I am pleased that now the last three Popes have NOT been Italian.  Nothing against the Italians,  but the run they had was beyond rediculous.
 

 
Yes, but I believe that the new Pope's father was an Italian immigrant and he also speaks fluent Italian.
 
Maybe that was part of a compromise to appease the Italian lobby??
 
 
Ray
 

[braziliangirl]

[size=78%]BG -[/size]

"... that would fight against what is wrong with the church and maybe more modern,  but Francisco's history shows he is conservative."  -  BG


What does his being 'conservative'  have to do your hopes?  There certainly are things wrong in the Church,  there always will be,  as it is composed of people and we do err.  He did fly on a jet to Italy,  he did not go by way of wooden ship,  that is modern.

Micky

You are right. Maybe even being conservative he can do something about child abuse in the church, for example. I heard a lot of people saying they wanted a pope that would be pro gay marriage and pro birth control methods, and that makes no sense to me. Not that I am against those things, it's just that they are against core things to the religion.

[braziliangirl]

lol yes, there was a tweet i read whereby it was said that argentines have big egos, but now the pope is from there, so they will be unbearable.

There are a lot of jokes about Argentinian egos, especially about the Porteños (people from Buenos Aires). It's nice that the pope is a Jesuit, so he doesn't seem to have the porteño ego.

it's interesting to hear from someone in Brazil, since it's the country with the largest Catholic population in the world. What denomination are you? or are you just agnostic/athiest? were you catholic and then moved on to another denomination.

So tell me BG more about the religious dynamics. most of the people in Sao Paulo that i met claimed to be Catholics but I get the impression they are arm chair catholics. Even still i didn't come accross one since Evanglical. and it's quite odd since they are the fastest growing christians. unless the stats are wrong.

I'm a nondenominational Christian, or what people here would call Evangélico and maybe what you guys would call Protestant. I was raised Catholic and very active in the church when I was a teenager.


What you saw in São Paulo corresponds to the reality of the whole country, that's why I said Catholicism is more cultural than religious. Kind of like protestants in the USA. The stats are not wrong. One of the big concerns of the Vatican is the growing of the Protestant/Evangelical church not only in Brazil, but in Latin America in general. Maybe that's why they decided for a Latin pope...

[Diablo]

There are a lot of jokes about Argentinian egos, especially about the Porteños (people from Buenos Aires). It's nice that the pope is a Jesuit, so he doesn't seem to have the porteño ego.

I'm a nondenominational Christian, or what people here would call Evangélico and maybe what you guys would call Protestant. I was raised Catholic and very active in the church when I was a teenager.

Just curious, What made you leave?

What you saw in São Paulo corresponds to the reality of the whole country, that's why I said Catholicism is more cultural than religious. Kind of like protestants in the USA. The stats are not wrong. One of the big concerns of the Vatican is the growing of the Protestant/Evangelical church not only in Brazil, but in Latin America in general. Maybe that's why they decided for a Latin pope...

I think it wouldn't make a difference now. I think they have lost that monopoly to Evangelicos and secularist.

[fathertime]

What could be the implication in Latin America. I know there is a thread in the archives somewhere when Ratzinger became pope. Everyone on the board was saying there should be more focus on latin america.


What's your opinion about this move from the Vatican?


I'd appreciate it if the latinas in the forum chime in too since they are in the region they would know how this affects the region in a Good or Bad way.


Thanks

My feeling is that European peoples and religion in that area are on a decline.  South american peoples are vibrant,  full of life, and strong believers,  so it is great that a pope comes from  that region.   


Fathertime!

[Stevieboy]

I'm not catholic anymore, only because I get bored at mass and can't stay awake, so go to the Christian churches instead. I am, however, tired of the same child abuse rhetoric when anything catholic or "the new pope" conversation comes about. People are so easily propagandized.     

[braziliangirl]

I'm not catholic anymore, only because I get bored at mass and can't stay awake, so go to the Christian churches instead. I am, however, tired of the same child abuse rhetoric when anything catholic or "the new pope" conversation comes about. People are so easily propagandized.   

So, you are saying it's not real? You don't think the new pope should care about it? I'm really hoping you are saying that because things are different in where you are. So, tell me more... Where do you think this propaganda comes from and who do you think it would benefit?

[V_Man]

I'm not catholic anymore, only because I get bored at mass and can't stay awake, so go to the Christian churches instead.
-snip-

  Huh!

I got similar statements in reverse in Colombia. I.e. refering to Catholics as being the only Christians and the other type as some other unspecified religion. Both camps should get a better understanding of what a Christian is IMHO.

[benjio]

Huh!

I got similar statements in reverse in Colombia. I.e. refering to Catholics as being the only Christians and the other type as some other unspecified religion. Both camps should get a better understanding of what a Christian is IMHO.

Catholics are indeed Christians by the definition of the word. However, the term Christian has become synonymous with any sect of the religion that does not recognize or accept the universal authority of the Pope and the Vatican...so I know exactly what Stevie meant. In almost any Latin American Country you're going to find a good majority of the population that speak of any church that's not Catholic with distain...especially Protestant because of the circumstances under which is was founded. I don't go to church often but like BG, I've found that nondenomenational churches are more consistent with my personal beliefs.
 
In terms of the Catholic Priests molesting children, it's a shame that the small percentage of priest that actually do it have become representatives for all of them. I'm not Catholic but I've lived across the street from one of the biggest Catholic Churches in Houston for a good majority of my life. The priest there does more for our community than all of the Baptist Church Ministers put together. I think because of human nature, it's nothing short of unbearable for a man to deny himself sexual contact. I think a lot of the priest are quietly going insane because of the vow of celibasy they are required to take. That's the reason they end up doing those horrible things to children. I'm not trying to justify it...I'm actually suggesting the Catholic Church should remove that requirement for priest AND nuns. A few years ago I read a story about a plumber unclogging the septic system of a Catholic Church only to find that thousands of used condoms were the reason for the problem. I seriously doubt that all those condoms came from people sneaking off to have sex in the bathroom during mass. I'm also sure there are men that become priest that are pedophiles long before they join the priesthood and they do it because the position inherently places them in close proximity to children.
 
Either way, in my opinion child molestation is a horrible thing I place right up there with murder and rape.

[V_Man]

Benjio, re-read what Stevie wrote.
He says he goes to Christian churches now because mass was too boring. 

Get what he is saying?

Then in Colombia I hear the same language applied in reverse for the reasons you said.

[benjio]

Benjio, re-read what Stevie wrote.
He says he goes to Christian churches now because mass was too boring. 

Get what he is saying?

Then in Colombia I hear the same language applied in reverse for the reasons you said.

Okay...you're confusing the $#!+ out of me V-Man. Stevie said he was going to Christian Churches now because mass (Catholic Church Service) was "too boring." So I assumed he was saying that Catholic Churches were not Chrisitan, right? Am I still getting it twisted here? Catholic Churches are indeed technically Christian, but most people don't refer to them that way for some reason. Especially in the South. I might still be off...this Eastern Brazil time is killing me and I hadn't had my coffee yet. 
 
By the way, sit through a 7:45 to 11:30 Southern Baptist Church Service and Mass seems like a short walk in the park.  In the church I use to go to since birth, the only reason the pastor started to let us go at 11:45 is because all the men would leave around that time during football season so they wouldn't miss 12 p.m. kickoffs. I'm not joking either. Football is the only universal religion in Texas.

[V_Man]

Yeah exactly!


Stevie is referring to what we assume are protestant churches as Christian churches. Plus implying that catholic churches are some other sort of religion.
You are saying this common in certain parts of the USA:

....[size=0px]most people don't refer to them that way for some reason. Especially in the South.[/size][/size]

[size=0px]



Then when one gets to Colombia, people there refer to Catholic as Christian and protestant as some "other" religion.


 


The whole thing is not entirely in the Christian spirit in my view. 

[benjio]

Yeah exactly!


Stevie is referring to what we assume are protestant churches as Christian churches. Plus implying that catholic churches are some other sort of religion.
You are saying this common in certain parts of the USA:[size=0px]



Then when one gets to Colombia, people there refer to Catholic as Christian and protestant as some "other" religion.


 


The whole thing is not entirely in the Christian spirit in my view. 
[/size]

[size=0px]
 
Ahhhh....ok. I getcha.[/size]

[Stevieboy]

I meant Catholic church being different as Christian church, yes. Catholic chruches pray more to the saints and have a priest, while the christian one's pray mostly to god/jesus and have a pastor. The women from Colombia I speak to know the difference between catholic church and christian ones. When they experess their beliefs to me, they are specific in what church they attend; catholic or christian.   
.
brazillian girl said:"So, you are saying it's not real? You don't think the new pope should care about it? I'm really hoping you are saying that because things are different in where you are. So, tell me more... Where do you think this propaganda comes from and who do you think it would benefit"?
.
The rhetoric you're speaking is exactly what I'm talking about. Of course what has happened in the past by a few evil priests should be rectified, and the new pope has work to do. But, the media ONLY talks about the catholic church in terms of scandal, not of the good it does, never. The media never talks about the immense charity to the poor and hungry worldwide, or peace between nations. But this isn't just the catholics, when the media speaks about anything religion related to god or jesus, it's always scandal, and people feed on it and regirgitate what they're "propagandized" to think. Unless they're secularists or atheists, and therefore it's their agenda to do so.     
.
None of the women I speak to in Col are secularists, and would probably not talk to me if I didnt worship god. How could she trust a man she will marry that doesnt believe in the ten commandments or marriage vows?

[htown]

Hey stevieboy, you don't think the catholic church spreads their own "propaganda"?

[braziliangirl]

I meant Catholic church being different as Christian church, yes. Catholic chruches pray more to the saints and have a priest, while the christian one's pray mostly to god/jesus and have a pastor. The women from Colombia I speak to know the difference between catholic church and christian ones. When they experess their beliefs to me, they are specific in what church they attend; catholic or christian.   
.
brazillian girl said:"So, you are saying it's not real? You don't think the new pope should care about it? I'm really hoping you are saying that because things are different in where you are. So, tell me more... Where do you think this propaganda comes from and who do you think it would benefit"?
.
The rhetoric you're speaking is exactly what I'm talking about. Of course what has happened in the past by a few evil priests should be rectified, and the new pope has work to do. But, the media ONLY talks about the catholic church in terms of scandal, not of the good it does, never. The media never talks about the immense charity to the poor and hungry worldwide, or peace between nations. But this isn't just the catholics, when the media speaks about anything religion related to god or jesus, it's always scandal, and sheeple feed on it and regirgitate what they're "propagandized" to think. Unless they're secularists or atheists, and therefore it's their agenda to do so.     
.
None of the women I speak to in Col are secularists, and would probably not talk to me if I didnt worship god. How could she trust a man she will marry that doesnt believe in the ten commandments or marriage vows?

Thanks for clarifying, Stevie. I guess your feelings are exactly like mine when all people talk about evangelical churchs in Brazil is the corrupt ministries that do everything to take money from the people. Scandals happen everywhere. Now the big trend in Brazil was the homophobic and racist pastor that was elected to the lead the national congress's comission on human rights and minorities. I've never seen the church's social work making the headlines.

I've been part of the Catholic church and I know about the beautiful charity work. But I've known some people who were abused in the church and I know the damage it caused to them. I don't believe abuse is that rare, at least not in Brazil. But I deeply believe Catholic churches in the USA are more focused than here, so I understand where your view come from.

Here in Brazil we believe Catholic and Protestant/Evangelical are just different kind of Christians, but all Christians. The main difference is the strong focus in Maria. It's hard for catholics to understand and many times accept that we don't worship her.

[Stevieboy]

Hey stevieboy, you don't think the catholic church spreads their own "propaganda"?

.
You just made my point. The topic was about the new pope, and you're more interested in the controversy, but then again, you're htown.   

[htown]

.
You just made my point. The topic was about the new pope, and you're more interested in the controversy, but then again, you're htown.

You're the one who brought it up and you're the one who got off topic.

[Stevieboy]

You're the one who brought it up and you're the one who got off topic.

.
What I mean is you went with the "they propagandize too", which is my point about people would rather bash christianity first that talk about the new pope, therefore you proved my point, and that you also say anything to cause controversy. You don't always mean what you say, you just like to cause waves.  Are you catholic, christian, none?   

[htown]

.
What I mean is you went with the "they propagandize too", which is my point about people would rather bash christianity first that talk about the new pope, therefore you proved my point, and that you also say anything to cause controversy. You don't always mean what you say, you just like to cause waves.  Are you catholic, christian, none?   

You started out bashing the media and atheists.


So you think it's ok for you to bash the media and non-christians, but nobody else can question the catholic church's propaganda?

[htown]

None of the women I speak to in Col are secularists, and would probably not talk to me if I didnt worship god. How could she trust a man she will marry that doesnt believe in the ten commandments or marriage vows?

Do you think "christians" are the only people who believe in marriage?