Brazil was a blast !!!!

[mudd]

got back some time ago but been busy. visited a few cities in brazil. loved the beautiful  beaches  and beautiful women, extremely friendly and outgoing. one even loaned me her cell phone for a day when i submerged mine in the water  lol. no crime, everything was clean, food was great.  if you havent been there yet, i would say  gooooooooooooooooo 

[A_Thomas]

 Glad you have a nice time. I am inching closer and closer to going down there and staying for a good long time.


 What cities did you visit?

[braziliangirl]

I'm glad you liked too! But... Details, please!    Are you planning a trip report? Or should I start with the questions?

[htown]

Sounds good Mudd!  Where'd you go and what did you do?

[mudd]

Went to Sao Paulo, Rio, a few other smaller cities and Porto alegre. Since the world cup and Olympics will be there soon the govt really cracked down on the crime, we saw none the whole trip and felt safe walking around at night. In Colombia, that would be a really stupid thing  to do
The guy I was tagging along with who goes 2 to 3 times a year and has been all over south America, but prefers brazil, of course he is fluent in Portuguese and Spanish so he has it easy. My Portuguese consisted of about 6 words  but I did start to pick it up a little.
 
Went to the beaches of course, which was awesome, nice seeing hot women wearing next to nothing lol.  Did para-sailing  some surfing, or at least tried to do it, been 15 years lol.  Ate and drank a lot, prices were ok, reasonable. Everybody was totally friendly with us and showed us a great time.
 
Went to some small bars/ discos, soon as the locals knew we were foreigners, they were dragging us onto the dance floor, trying to get us moving, omg, was funny watching gringos trying to dance like Brazilians. Man, these girls can moveeeeeeee and when they like you, they REALLY like you lol.

[benjio]

Went to Sao Paulo, Rio, a few other smaller cities and Porto alegre. Since the world cup and Olympics will be there soon the govt really cracked down on the crime, we saw none the whole trip and felt safe walking around at night. In Colombia, that would be a really stupid thing  to do
The guy I was tagging along with who goes 2 to 3 times a year and has been all over south America, but prefers brazil, of course he is fluent in Portuguese and Spanish so he has it easy. My Portuguese consisted of about 6 words  but I did start to pick it up a little.
 
Went to the beaches of course, which was awesome, nice seeing hot women wearing next to nothing lol.  Did para-sailing  some surfing, or at least tried to do it, been 15 years lol.  Ate and drank a lot, prices were ok, reasonable. Everybody was totally friendly with us and showed us a great time.
 
Went to some small bars/ discos, soon as the locals knew we were foreigners, they were dragging us onto the dance floor, trying to get us moving, omg, was funny watching gringos trying to dance like Brazilians. Man, these girls can moveeeeeeee and when they like you, they REALLY like you lol.

Glad you enjoyed yourself Mudd. I had similar experiences my first time down there. Not sure where you live in the U.S. but the prices in Rio and Sao Paulo are ridiculous compared to what I pay for things in Houston. Not the most expensive places on Earth but I sometimes look at restaurant tabs and grocery store receipts and I'm like, "REALLY?!!!"
 
I'm happy someone that post here on P-L got down there and had the chance to experience what an awesome place Brazil is. Especially since they've won the bids for the World Cup and the Olympics as you mentioned. I'm preparing to move to Rio in May, so if you're ever in the neighborhood please feel free to hit me up!
 
 

[mudd]

i live in san diego calif, not a cheap place either lol. yeah, rio and seo  were not cheap compared to most latin cities but  expensive because everybody want to be there. the  smaller cities are the places to be in my opinion.  my friend likes  the north also, cheaper and less foreigners, but he always ends up in the south. i think he just likes the big city party lifestyle. thanks for the invite 


 i am a little surprised that more guys dont go to brazil, its a fun place to go too

[benjio]

i live in san diego calif, not a cheap place either lol. yeah, rio and seo  were not cheap compared to most latin cities but  expensive because everybody want to be there. the  smaller cities are the places to be in my opinion.  my friend likes  the north also, cheaper and less foreigners, but he always ends up in the south. i think he just likes the big city party lifestyle. thanks for the invite 


 i am a little surprised that more guys dont go to brazil, its a fun place to go too

Yeah man....I personally prefer Recife (A Northern City) to any other place in Brazil. Probably only because I've never been to Belem yet though.    Unfortunately my company wouldn't allow me to live in any other city in South America because our corporate headquarters for Latin America is in Rio.
 
I think the fact that Americans have to go through the visa process (although relatively easy) and the fact that flights are usually so expensive prevent a lot of guys from traveling to Brazil. As I've mentioned before though...a reputable agency in any major city there would make a fortune. 

[mudd]

I think the fact that Americans have to go through the visa process (although relatively easy) and the fact that flights are usually so expensive prevent a lot of guys from traveling to Brazil. As I've mentioned before though...a reputable agency in any major city there would make a fortun

visa was easy, wasnt expensive at all and got it in about 2 weeks. the flight for me was the same  price to sao paulo as to medellin or cali, go figure.


yeah, any agency down there would do extremely well.

[TheGreatAdventurer]

Maybe it's a good thing that Brazil is somewhat of a "hidden jewel"...  those of us who are falling in love with the country get first dibs on setting up shop there without fighting off a metric ton of competition!   

It seems like it's a much better place for someone who is actually interested in the country and culture itself (not just the women) and has aspirations of relocating there, moreso than someone who wants to find a girl and bring her back to the West.  The "barriers to entry" might just help it remain that way and seem to give it a mystique that few other countries offer.

[htown]

Maybe it's a good thing that Brazil is somewhat of a "hidden jewel"...  those of us who are falling in love with the country get first dibs on setting up shop there without fighting off a metric ton of competition!   

It seems like it's a much better place for someone who is actually interested in the country and culture itself (not just the women) and has aspirations of relocating there, moreso than someone who wants to find a girl and bring her back to the West.  The "barriers to entry" might just help it remain that way and seem to give it a mystique that few other countries offer.

I don't know about the wife-hunters but brazil is an even bigger sex-tourist destination than colombia so I don't know how much of a "hidden jewel" it is.



One barrier to entry would have to be the language though.  It's ten times easier to find a someone to teach you spanish than it is to find a portuguese teacher.

[Cam]

One barrier to entry would have to be the language though.  It's ten times easier to find a someone to teach you spanish than it is to find a portuguese teacher.

It's also "Brazilian Portugese" which is something of a creole of the standard language. I get the impression it's more separated than American / British English are.
 
Some Brazilian expat forums I've read also point out that even in Brazil, tutors are reluctant to teach the "real" spoken language ... and will err on the side of explaining it in a more "formal or proper" way.

[mudd]

I don't know about the wife-hunters but brazil is an even bigger sex-tourist destination than colombia so I don't know how much of a "hidden jewel" it is.

thing with brazil is, compared to.. say colombia, its HUGH and has a way bigger population and many more cities to visit that   foreigners dont go too.


i would love to go in the north of brazil  on my next trip

[Brazilophile]

I don't know about the wife-hunters but brazil is an even bigger sex-tourist destination than colombia so I don't know how much of a "hidden jewel" it is.

I was going to say something very similar.  Brazil is a "hidden jewel" only to some not-very-well-rounded Americans.  Lots of Europeans flock to Brazil.  (No visa needed.  It is waived for the Eurozone.)   
 
And as Htown says, Rio is/was a HUGE sex tourism destination.  The Club Help was world renowned before it was torn down 2 years ago.

[Brazilophile]

It's also "Brazilian Portugese" which is something of a creole of the standard language. I get the impression it's more separated than American / British English are.
 
Some Brazilian expat forums I've read also point out that even in Brazil, tutors are reluctant to teach the "real" spoken language ... and will err on the side of explaining it in a more "formal or proper" way.

Can you identify sources for those "impressions"?  My impression of them is utter nonsense!
 
There are indeed many differences between Brazilian and Continental Portuguese but it has NOTHING to do with Brazilian Portuguese being a creole or 'not proper' and European Portuguese being standard.  My academic Portuguese textbook and professional translators say it is due to Brazil being close to Colombia, Venezuela, and Argentina and incorporating aspects of how those countries speak Spanish into how Brazilians speak Portuguese, and Portugal being close to Spain and France and incorporating aspects of how those two countries speak Spanish and French into how the Portuguese speak Portuguese.
 
An example is the use of the familiar second person singular and plural.  Brazil uses 'voce' and 'voces' almost exclusively.  Portugal uses 'tu' and 'vos' much more.
 
Furthermore, the population of Portugal is around 11 million while that of Brazil is around 200 million.  If there is an argument for a standard Portuguese in literature, business, science, or popular, it is in favor of Brazilian Portuguese due to the shear numbers or people using it.

[TheGreatAdventurer]

While we're on the subject of Portuguese, what do the other countries that speak it lean towards (Mozambique, Angola, etc)?  More of a Continental style?  Or do they have their own particular flavor?

[benjio]

I was going to say something very similar.  Brazil is a "hidden jewel" only to some not-very-well-rounded Americans.  Lots of Europeans flock to Brazil.  (No visa needed.  It is waived for the Eurozone.)   
 
And as Htown says, Rio is/was a HUGE sex tourism destination.  The Club Help was world renowned before it was torn down 2 years ago.

Gringos I know that have lived in Rio for a while still talk about Help quite often. From what I've heard it was quite the spectacle. Help has since been replaced by several other termas spread throughout the city. The sex tourism industry is still alive and well in Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo. Since Brazil won the bid for the World Cup and the Olympics the police have performed several raids on sex clubs in the bigger cities, but they are usually right back open after a few days. They want to give the public the impression that something is being done about these businesses, but they always eventually miss those fat envelopes filled with reias too much to keep those places closed. Prostitution is not against the law in Brazil....organized crime is. Pimping is considered an organized crime. In any establishment where a women sells her body and pays the house a cut, the owner of that house is considered a pimp. Therefore, that person can be indicted for running a criminal organization. When Termas are raided, the girls and the patrons are almost never arrested (when they are it's usually because they were in possession of an illegal substance). They are only questioned and released. The owners however are usually prosecuted and have to pay an astronomical fine (in addition to the millions of Reias and U.S. Dollars that are usually confinscated). They very rarely receive jail time. Until Brazil makes prostitution illegal, and as long as the women stay gorgeous, this cycle will never end. It saddens me that so many beautiful, intelligent women with so much potential feel that is the only way they can make a living. Many of them come from very poor, rural areas in the countryside and are single mothers.
 
I can't jog down Copacabana Beach at night without being propisitioned at least every quarter mile. I guess I can't complain though...from what I've heard a few years ago I would have had to worry more about being robbed at gunpoint. Thank goodness that's not the case anymore. Transvestites and cross dressers are everywhere and no one does it better than Brazilians. Carnival anyone? I can't tell you all how many stories I've heard about guys paying for oral sex from what they eventually discovered were men. There is a bar called The Balcony on Copacabana teaming with working girls every single night of the week. I go there to meet a few Americans I know to watch NFL games on Sundays and Mondays. At first I was always being approached by working girls. But now the regulars know I'm not into the pay for play thing. They are nice enough, tell very interesting stories and help me with my Portuguese. I don't judge them...but I do not want to be associated with them either. Sort of difficult to do just being in the place..but hey, I've met a district judge, the police chief and a very powerful corporate lawyer that works for Petrobras in that place. Unfortunately watching the games with my buddies at Balcony is the best taste of the U.S. I can get in Rio. I've discovered that Americans will inevitably reach out for each other when they are in foreign countries. 
 
As I said in another thread though...it's about how you conduct yourself as a foreigner. I wouldn't ever rule out Rio or any other city in Brazil as prime wife hunting real estate. There are plenty of places to meet women in Rio that aren't garotas de programma. There are probably tens of thousands of single women in Rio with looks that would blow your mind, are educated, have a job, and honestly want to find a good man to marry. The only difference between them and a lot of Colombianas is they will not throw themselves at your feet because you're a foreigner. They actually initially assume you're a mongerer unless you show them you're not. Again, your actions will determine how successful you are if you're there to meet a great gal. Most women are not interested in leaving Rio either...but would be willing to if they found the right guy. The fact that I'm going to be staying there so long has made me realize that it's much more likely I'll find myself marrying a Brazilian Girl as supposed to a Colombiana...but who knows. The saga continues...

[TheGreatAdventurer]

Great post benjio.  From your experience then the crime aspect of cities like Rio is definitely improving?  I figured it was only a matter of time... I've even seen some interesting reports about transformation of Favelas into much more livable and even artsy communities.  Brazil has so much potential it's mind-boggling, just a matter of overcoming the negative things like that, which might just be a process that is already well on its way!

[benjio]

From your experience then the crime aspect of cities like Rio is definitely improving? 

My first trip was a couple of years ago after the police had already started to crack down, so I don't have much experience with the dangerous Rio of the past. From what I hear it wasn't somewhere you'd walk down a dark alley at night though.

[A_Thomas]

 I have connections in Brazil, I've always wanted to go. I was never concern about safety, that issue is overblown.


 Of course you can find non-GDP women in Rio and Sao Paulo, but most American tourist don't speak a lick of Portuguese and figure its not worth the effort. Most men going to Brazil are disenchanted with Western dating and GDP is all too easy.


 I don't know why there would be concern for GDP anyway, its something local Brazilian men engage in on a regular basis, its a patriarchal society and its a huge part of their tourism that they are giving free English lessons to all those involved in the tourist industry including GDP.


 This is all ahead of the World Cup and Summer Games. Just as they started to clean up the violence in favelas back in 2005. In 2008 they started cracking down on Termas and forced the closing of Help!


 This is no different than what happen to New York, they want to make it less seedy. Frankfurt, Germany has sex everywhere and a Red Light district but unless you were looking for it, you might not even see it.


 I may finally go to Brazil and kick it... I'll know more by May.


 
 

[Brazilophile]

I was never concern about safety, that issue is overblown.

In my opinion, yes and no.

There is a great deal of violent crime, and gun violence.  On my first trip to Brazil, in Salvador,  I was on a public bus in the early evening when it was stopped by military police and searched.  The men were taken off the bus, made to put their hands against the side of the bus and searched by police.  IDs were checked.  The women stayed on the bus but were questioned and their purses were checked.

In my beginning Portuguese at the time, I said I was a tourist and didn't understand what was happening.  I had photocopies of my passport picture page and visa page.  The guy giving orders briefly looked at the copies and told me to stand to the side.  After everyone else was searched and allowed back on the bus, that guy, a sergeant I guess, took a closer look at my papers and explained to me that they were searching for weapons.  I wasn't searched or questioned.  Brazilians to whom I related this experience explained that the police have check points at various places and search public transportation for weapons.  This was over 10 years ago.  I have never experienced it again since.

Brazilians who have discussed crime with me stress that it is highly concentrated in specific places (ie favelas).  In Recife, a high murder rate city for several years, there is very little crime in the Boa Viagem neighborhood.  The murders take place in the interior of the city, away from the beaches, among those involved in the illegal drug trade.  My experience so far is that if you are not looking for drugs, you won't encounter much petty crime and no violent crime.  If you are looking for GDPs, make sure they are not involved with drugs, because their druggie friends can put you into a very bad situation very fast.  A place in Rio called Vila Mimosa was described to me.  It sounded exactly like a crime ridden place to avoid like the plague. 

[A_Thomas]

In my opinion, yes and no.

There is a great deal of violent crime, and gun violence.  On my first trip to Brazil, in Salvador,  I was on a public bus in the early evening when it was stopped by military police and searched.  The men were taken off the bus, made to put their hands against the side of the bus and searched by police.  IDs were checked.  The women stayed on the bus but were questioned and their purses were checked.

In my beginning Portuguese at the time, I said I was a tourist and didn't understand what was happening.  I had photocopies of my passport picture page and visa page.  The guy giving orders briefly looked at the copies and told me to stand to the side.  After everyone else was searched and allowed back on the bus, that guy, a sergeant I guess, took a closer look at my papers and explained to me that they were searching for weapons.  I wasn't searched or questioned.  Brazilians to whom I related this experience explained that the police have check points at various places and search public transportation for weapons.  This was over 10 years ago.  I have never experienced it again since.

Brazilians who have discussed crime with me stress that it is highly concentrated in specific places (ie favelas).  In Recife, a high murder rate city for several years, there is very little crime in the Boa Viagem neighborhood.  The murders take place in the interior of the city, away from the beaches, among those involved in the illegal drug trade.  My experience so far is that if you are not looking for drugs, you won't encounter much petty crime and no violent crime.  If you are looking for GDPs, make sure they are not involved with drugs, because their druggie friends can put you into a very bad situation very fast.  A place in Rio called Vila Mimosa was described to me.  It sounded exactly like a crime ridden place to avoid like the plague.

 Bingo, I tell people this all the time about Mexico; The MSM blast the air waves with tales of drug related beheading, revenge killing and the rest of it.


 I tell them it has nothing to do with you, unless it involves drugs. If that's the case, that's your ass.


 About two years ago a San Diego resident was found or at least she charred remains were found. He was a known drug user...


 Recently I watched a report on AlJazeera English of an Angolan who moved to Sao Paulo for better life and his experiences with racism/living in a favelas. He makes beats and opened his own bar - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH6XuVBtVM0


 Favelas are also victims of Gentrification -  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgIJ5-hv738


 Interesting times we live in, I am enjoying this immensely!


 

[braziliangirl]

It's also "Brazilian Portugese" which is something of a creole of the standard language. I get the impression it's more separated than American / British English are.


Some Brazilian expat forums I've read also point out that even in Brazil, tutors are reluctant to teach the "real" spoken language ... and will err on the side of explaining it in a more "formal or proper" way.

Actually, there's a council making sure Brazilian Portuguese and all Portuguese spoke in different countries don't grow apart too much. From time to time a new set of rules to unify the language is released. The last one took effect in 2009 and, curiously, there were more changes to Portugal than to Brazil. Also, I PT-BR doesn't have enough mix of native or other languages to be considered creole. A Brazilian can be fully understood by a Portuguese or Angolan, except for very, very few words. The major difference is the accent.


Also, I guess in when learning any language tutors won't want to teach the "real" spoken language (what's real in that case anyway?). A good tutor will teach based on the language rules. They can give you tips on slang and such, but his job is to teach you the set of rules that will help you be understood by the majority of the speakers.

[braziliangirl]

While we're on the subject of Portuguese, what do the other countries that speak it lean towards (Mozambique, Angola, etc)?  More of a Continental style?  Or do they have their own particular flavor?

Accent wise, it's more like Portugal. Of course they may have heir own particular flavor to some extent, but check my other post about the efforts to unify the Portuguese language.

[braziliangirl]

Can you identify sources for those "impressions"?  My impression of them is utter nonsense!
 
There are indeed many differences between Brazilian and Continental Portuguese but it has NOTHING to do with Brazilian Portuguese being a creole or 'not proper' and European Portuguese being standard.  My academic Portuguese textbook and professional translators say it is due to Brazil being close to Colombia, Venezuela, and Argentina and incorporating aspects of how those countries speak Spanish into how Brazilians speak Portuguese, and Portugal being close to Spain and France and incorporating aspects of how those two countries speak Spanish and French into how the Portuguese speak Portuguese.
 
An example is the use of the familiar second person singular and plural.  Brazil uses 'voce' and 'voces' almost exclusively.  Portugal uses 'tu' and 'vos' much more.
 
Furthermore, the population of Portugal is around 11 million while that of Brazil is around 200 million.  If there is an argument for a standard Portuguese in literature, business, science, or popular, it is in favor of Brazilian Portuguese due to the shear numbers or people using it.

Great post, Brazilophile! It's nice when someone actually knows about what they are posting. 


I would just add one thing. You are right about no one using vós in Brazil, not even in formal settings, unless you're praying, but tu is the first choice in some places, mostly the North (where I live) and Rio Grande do Sul. Você is widely used in Rio, for example, but tu can be used in more informal sets and it's almost always used with the verb conjugated in the "wrong" way, like tu foi, or tu viu instead of tu foste, or tu viste.