Chavez just kicked the bucket....

[benjio]

I for one am pretty happy...although it probably won't mean any significant changes.

[mudd]

you mean mr wacko?  jajaja. nope, probably not. at least wont have to hear his wracked out rants 

[Ray]

 
The ex-bus driver VP in Venezuela says that America infected Chaves with cancer...
 
ROTFLMFAO!
 
 
 
 
 

[bcc_1_2]

I really hope Kerry & the administration focus on continuing and improving our relationship with other countries in Latin America. His time is better spent in Colombia, Mexico, etc The new guy is just Chavez 2.0

[fathertime]

I only have sadness for this man Hugo Chavez dying.  He seemed like a loving father and fought for the poorest in his society when typically they were exploited ruthlessly.  As far as leaders go, I've seen much worse, it appears to me his worst sin was being anti-us, but given our international policies, he wasn't alone.
Fathertime!



 

[Ricardo1]

FT,
I agree with you on that score.  Latin America has had a history of dictatorial leaders, and an on-going legacy of social inequities, and an institutionalized class structure that relegates a significant and large percentage of their populations to poverty and lack of access to upward mobility.  We've seen it time and again - in Colombia, Venezuela, Peru, etc. 
To  his credit Chavez made some attempts to better the lot of many Venezuelans, albeit through a socialist agenda.  I doubt his political opponents would have fared better. It was sad to sad to hear of his death after such a long battle with cancer.  It's always hard to look at the photo here, must be hard for his daughters to see the frailty and decline of their father.  One can only sympathize for his family. 
 
" it appears to me his worst sin was being anti-us, but given our international policies, he wasn't alone. Fathertime!  "

[Stevieboy]

Let's see, Chavez enacted the democratic socialist economic policy which was designed to redistribute money from the wealthy to the poor, seize underused private land, control of private oil and local businesses, for "the greater good of the people". The lower class loved this and voted for him. Sound familiar?   
 
 

[benjio]

It always tickles me when people try to pass off socialism as sympathy. The man came into office broke and died with $2 billion in the bank. Wonder how many poor Venezuelans that money could have helped out. Go to Venezuela to see what it's like first hand and I guarantee you you'll feel different. With their oil reserves it was no reason the country shouldn't have a primarily middle class population. I don't do political discussions on P-L, but if history has taught us anything, it's that socialism looks great on paper but never actually works in the real world. If nothing else it only gives governments permission to seize the assets of the rich to keep most of it for themselves and distribute just enough money to the poor to keep them happy.

[fathertime]

It always tickles me when people try to pass off socialism as sympathy. The man came into office broke and died with $2 billion in the bank. Wonder how many poor Venezuelans that money could have helped out. Go to Venezuela to see what it's like first hand and I guarantee you you'll feel different. With their oil reserves it was no reason the country shouldn't have a primarily middle class population. I don't do political discussions on P-L, but if history has taught us anything, it's that socialism looks great on paper but never actually works in the real world. If nothing else it only gives governments permission to seize the assets of the rich to keep most of it for themselves and distribute just enough money to the poor to keep them happy.

I always get tickled when somebody says they don’t do political discussions, but then goes on and does that very thing in that very  paragraph. 

Let’s see a credible source for this smear regarding 2 billion in the bank. I ran a few searches and found not a one from anything credible, but you must have found that figure somewhere.  I would say that most any leader of a country would wind up with at least some personal wealth, but if in this case it is 2 billion that would be too much, but I still don’t see that figure anywhere that I find credible.  I don’t believe that he was overly corrupt nor do I believe Obama is overly corrupt, certain policies may be questionable but I believe these are decent people doing what they think benefits the most people possible. 

Then man died a painful prolonged death, he was not evil and the majority of the people of Venezuela admired him and his daughters loved/admired him as well.  I don't think people should be dancing/urinating on his grave.     

It is undeniable that poorer people of Venezuela benefitted from his policies, to say they didn’t is factually incorrect.

   

Here is a link to an article from a guy who appears a little more balanced and educated on the subject.   

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/comment/talking-politics/chavez-towering-leader-deserved-better-critics-113705848.html

Fathertime!   

[benjio]

I always get tickled when somebody says they don’t do political discussions, but then goes on and does that very thing in that very  paragraph. 
 Let’s see a credible source for this smear regarding 2 billion in the bank. I ran a few searches and found not a one from anything credible, but you must have found that figure somewhere.  I would say that most any leader of a country would wind up with at least some personal wealth, but if in this case it is 2 billion that would be too much, but I still don’t see that figure anywhere that I find credible.  I don’t believe that he was overly corrupt nor do I believe Obama is overly corrupt, certain policies may be questionable but I believe these are decent people doing what they think benefits the most people possible.  Then man died a painful prolonged death, he was not evil and the majority of the people of Venezuela admired him and his daughters loved/admired him as well.  I don't think people should be dancing/urinating on his grave.      It is undeniable that poorer people of Venezuela benefitted from his policies, to say they didn’t is factually incorrect. Here is a link to an article from a guy who appears a little more balanced and educated on the subject.   

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/comment/talking-politics/chavez-towering-leader-deserved-better-critics-113705848.html

Fathertime!   

Honestly I heard that figure on CNN and MSNBC last night. Not sure how credible it is, nor at any point did I accuse Chavez of being corrupt. I was just saying history has shown that Socialism usually doesn't work in the real world because of personal greed. In terms of your off topic, useless attempt at a jab for making a political comment after stating I don't do political discussions on P-L, the word but is a coordinating conjunction used most commonly as a negation of a previously stated idea. Which means I can say something and then make a personal admission of an exception to the same statement. Are you seriously trying to act like you've never made a comment like this?
 
http://www.inquisitr.com/558917/hugo-chavez-dead-net-worth-2-billion-venezuela-dictator/

[Stevieboy]

I always get tickled when somebody says they don’t do political discussions, but then goes on and does that very thing in that very  paragraph. 

Let’s see a credible source for this smear regarding 2 billion in the bank. I ran a few searches and found not a one from anything credible, but you must have found that figure somewhere.  I would say that most any leader of a country would wind up with at least some personal wealth, but if in this case it is 2 billion that would be too much, but I still don’t see that figure anywhere that I find credible.  I don’t believe that he was overly corrupt nor do I believe Obama is overly corrupt, certain policies may be questionable but I believe these are decent people doing what they think benefits the most people possible. 

Then man died a painful prolonged death, he was not evil and the majority of the people of Venezuela admired him and his daughters loved/admired him as well.  I don't think people should be dancing/urinating on his grave.     

It is undeniable that poorer people of Venezuela benefitted from his policies, to say they didn’t is factually incorrect.

   

Here is a link to an article from a guy who appears a little more balanced and educated on the subject.   

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/comment/talking-politics/chavez-towering-leader-deserved-better-critics-113705848.html

Fathertime!   

.
WHAT? His topic, if that's what he wants to talk about. As far as whether they're "smears" or "he was not devil", Fathertime, you have to be joking, right?  I didn't think you leaned that way. As far as Obama, do you live in the States? Have you ever spoke to a Venezuelan who left there?  I actually like these kinds of topics. You get to find out what people really think and how they tick.       

[fathertime]

Honestly I heard that figure on CNN and MSNBC last night. Not sure how credible it is, nor at any point did I accuse Chavez of being corrupt. I was just saying history has shown that Socialism usually doesn't work in the real world because of personal greed. In terms of your off topic, useless attempt at a jab for making a political comment after stating I don't do political discussions on P-L, the word but is a coordinating conjunction used most commonly as a negation of a previously stated idea. Which means I can say something and then make a personal admission of an exception to the same statement. Are you seriously trying to act like you've never made a comment like this?
 
http://www.inquisitr.com/558917/hugo-chavez-dead-net-worth-2-billion-venezuela-dictator/

You are now being untruthful, when you deny saying he was corrupt.  When you make a comment that he has ‘2 billion’ in the bank, that is a code for saying he is corrupt without   coming right out and saying it. Now frankly if that number were to be correct and he was benefitting from that money than he would likely be guilty of some corruption, but I’m not seeing evidence of that being the case, just yet.

So what specifically is your issue with Chavez that brought you to the point of being happy he died like this?  It would take quite a bit for me to say I was happy somebody died, especially at his relative young age and the children he left behind. Generally he was known for aiding the poor of his country, and attempting to bridge the disparity between rich and poor.  Not a bad legacy in that respect.   

Thanks for the link regarding his wealth, I saw that one too, but it looks like a hit piece to me.   

[size=78%][/size]Regarding your comment about not doing political conversations, your comment was a veiled attempt to close the discussion, (because you don’t do political discussions here).  There was no other purpose for putting the disclaimer before your ‘but’ in the sentence, because it is unimportant and off topic what you usually do.   

[size=78%][/size]Fathertime!     

[benjio]

Having an intelligent discussion with you is difficult because you use terms and aren't really familiar with what they mean. Corruption implies deviance, moral impurity, or something of that sort. The $2 Billion could have very well been a salary to himself mandated by the Venezuelan Government. Maybe he invested in oil futures. I don't know. I never accused him of being corrupt though. My comment about the $2 billion dollars he was allegedly worth was more to make the point that it's not right to excessively tax the rich to provide for the poor, and you're extremely wealthy and not taxing yourself. You are once again making assumptions instead of asking someone to elaborate on what they meant.
 
I'm happy about his death for one reason. Chavez openly supported the FARC. I know people in Colombia that have been victims of this terrorist organization. Put your feet on the ground and learn about what's really going on there before putting yourself in someone's corner.

[fathertime]

.
WHAT? His topic, if that's what he wants to talk about. As far as whether they're "smears" or "he was not devil", Fathertime, you have to be joking, right?  I didn't think you leaned that way. As far as Obama, do you live in the States? Have you ever spoke to a Venezuelan who left there?  I actually like these kinds of topics. You get to find out what people really think and how they tick.     

Stevieboy,  why did you quote '"He was not the devil" ?  I never said that, although it is probably true.   


I'd like to also hear your specific complaint regarding Hugo Chavez.  If I know what it is, I can then reply and you can get more insight on how I think on this subject. 


I think you think obama is also very corrupt based on your comment.  Yes I live here, and i think our leaders are always going to be accused of high levels of corruption.  Why do you imply obozo is corrupt?  I may agree or maybe not. 
Fathertime! 

[Stevieboy]

According to Venezuelans I spoke with who left to Panama. Chavez, seized their businesses and land they sat on. The bolivar was worthless because of him, and Chavez would only allow citizens the american dollar for food and necessities. Only the venezuelans with money could buy the dollar 4 times it's worth to leave the country and take with them their business, allthewhile the poor have to stay and stay poor. Yeah, he really cared for the poor. But hey, those Venezuelans who told me that at different times, and didn't know each other were probably lying right?     

[fathertime]

Having an intelligent discussion with you is difficult because you use terms and aren't really familiar with what they mean. Corruption implies deviance, moral impurity, or something of that sort. The $2 Billion could have very well been a salary to himself mandated by the Venezuelan Government. Maybe he invested in oil futures. I don't know. I never accused him of being corrupt though. My comment about the $2 billion dollars he was allegedly worth was more to make the point that it's not right to excessively tax the rich to provide for the poor, and you're extremely wealthy and not taxing yourself. You are once again making assumptions instead of asking someone to elaborate on what they meant.

Having an intelligent discussion with you is difficult because you you always try to change what you were implying about your original statements.   It looks like you made an assumption of your own.  Who is to say he didn't get taxed himself?  That was an assumption on your part or perhaps you can provide a reference that he wasn't taxed.  At this time, I don't even see anything conclusive that shows he was  worth 2 billion dollars, he might be and sure it might have been his bloated salary, but where is the real evidence?


You have once again avoided comment on why you are so happy he died.  I'd like to hear why you were rather happy about this?  Maybe you have just cause for being happy, but thus far I'm not understanding it.   


Fathertime! 

[benjio]

Having an intelligent discussion with you is difficult because you you always try to change what you were implying about your original statements.   It looks like you made an assumption of your own.  Who is to say he didn't get taxed himself?  That was an assumption on your part or perhaps you can provide a reference that he wasn't taxed.  At this time, I don't even see anything conclusive that shows he was  worth 2 billion dollars, he might be and sure it might have been his bloated salary, but where is the real evidence?


You have once again avoided comment on why you are so happy he died.  I'd like to hear why you were rather happy about this?  Maybe you have just cause for being happy, but thus far I'm not understanding it.   


Fathertime!

I didn't change what I was implying....you assumed I was implying something I wasn't. As you've done before.
 
Sorry but I edited my reply to explain why I'm happy Chavez died after the first time I posted it.

[fathertime]

According to Venezuelans I spoke with who left to Panama. Chavez, seized their businesses and land they sat on. The bolivar was worthless because of him, and Chavez would only allow citizens the american dollar for food and necessities. Only the venezuelans with money could buy the dollar 4 times it's worth to leave the country and take with them their business, allthewhile the poor have to stay and stay poor. Yeah, he really cared for the poor. But hey, those Venezuelans who told me that at different times, and didn't know each other were probably lying right?     

Who said these people you talked to were lying?


  When you relay this here, it is at least 2nd hand information. 


Here is a link providing one example of what you are talking about. 


http://en.mercopress.com/2011/10/06/chavez-will-seize-summer-homes-on-the-caribbean-to-promote-state-run-tourism




Upon reading this and not being there, those people should have received some reduced form of compensation, but It is hard to ascertain the legality of what they built. 
Fathertime! 

[Stevieboy]

Stevieboy,  why did you quote '"He was not the devil" ?  I never said that, although it is probably true.   


I'd like to also hear your specific complaint regarding Hugo Chavez.  If I know what it is, I can then reply and you can get more insight on how I think on this subject. 


I think you think obama is also very corrupt based on your comment.  Yes I live here, and i think our leaders are always going to be accused of high levels of corruption.  Why do you imply obozo is corrupt?  I may agree or maybe not. 
Fathertime! 

That was a typo, I misspelled "evil". Yes, I believe Obama is corrupt. If you don't see it, someone like me isn't gonna convince you of it? It's a moot arguement.
.
 I FOR ONE and most of my family is glad Chavez is dead. I also hope Sean Penn and Danny Glover gush over the new bus driver dictator and have a threesome on Hugo's grave. 
 
 
 

[Stevieboy]

Who said these people you talked to were lying?


  When you relay this here, it is at least 2nd hand information. 


Here is a link providing one example of what you are talking about. 


http://en.mercopress.com/2011/10/06/chavez-will-seize-summer-homes-on-the-caribbean-to-promote-state-run-tourism




Upon reading this and not being there, those people should have received some reduced form of compensation, but It is hard to ascertain the legality of what they built. 
Fathertime!

.
I know it's second hand info, but it came from several people. And it's not just them, it's my family and persons in my family that are mexican/venezuelan mixed.   

[fathertime]

 
I'm happy about his death for one reason. Chavez openly supported the FARC. I know people in Colombia that have been victims of this terrorist organization. Put your feet on the ground and learn about what's really going on there before putting yourself in someone's corner.

Once again your statements are not entirely factual.   You should put your feet on the ground and get your facts straight before 'being happy'somebody died who was adored by the majority of his countrymen, or maybe their feet are not on the ground either. 


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/venezuela/2100051/Venezuelas-Hugo-Chavez-ends-support-of-Farc-rebels.html


Fathertime! 

[fathertime]

.
I know it's second hand info, but it came from several people. And it's not just them, it's my family and persons in my family that are mexican/venezuelan mixed.   

The link I provided and the one I am providing here do provide examples of what he was doing.  Any comment on that aspect?


http://articles.businessinsider.com/2010-11-02/sports/30098476_1_land-shortage-golf-courses-venezuela


Fathertime! 

[benjio]

Once again your statements are not entirely factual.   You should put your feet on the ground and get your facts straight before 'being happy'somebody died who was adored by the majority of his countrymen, or maybe their feet are not on the ground either. 


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/venezuela/2100051/Venezuelas-Hugo-Chavez-ends-support-of-Farc-rebels.html


Fathertime!

I remember reading an article like this. I think I was in Colombia at the time. The general concensus amongst the people there were it was just a BS attempt at legitimizing himself even more. The fact that he supported The FARC in the first place is unforgivable. Do you disagree with this? You can post as many articles as you want. You went to Colombia, found a wife and now spend very minimal time there. Yet you pretend to be well informed when it comes to the political climate and what life is like for people that live there because you're reading the news from afar. As you did, I could very well call every single article you are posting links to unreliable. I'm in Colombia 3-6 months a year living and working. Do you really believe your impression of political opinion and what's actually happening there is better than my own?

[fathertime]

That was a typo, I misspelled "evil". Yes, I believe Obama is corrupt. If you don't see it, someone like me isn't gonna convince you of it? It's a moot arguement.
.

Gotcha, I was wondering where on earth you came up with the devil comment.


Regarding Obozo, I'm sure he has done quite a few shady things, but it becomes an issue of extent of corruption.  The left said the same stuff about GWB, which I also generally did not believe. 


Don't be shy!  What is it that makes you think obozo is corrupt?  I think he won the election fairly.  I think his foreign policy is a tax payer funded continuation of the foreign nation bribes all his predecessors also had, and i find that policy revolting.


Fathertime! 

[fathertime]

   Yet you pretend to be well informed when it comes to the political climate and what life is like for people that live there because you're reading the news from afar.

Ohhh now you want to attack me personally which I carefully refrained from doing to you.  Lets make a mental note of this of this so later when you have a fit we can refer back to this moment.

 I'm in Colombia 3-6 months a year living and working. Do you really believe your impression of political opinion and what's actually happening there is better than my own?

Yes, I believe you have very poor judgement in some respects (so it doesn't matter where you reside) and I think I have a better perspective on a lot things then you do. 

I remember reading an article like this. I think I was in Colombia at the time. The general concensus amongst the people there were it was just a BS attempt at legitimizing himself even more.

So a bunch of people THOUGHT a lot of things. I don't think that matters much.  We could find 10 people and get varying opinions from each. 

  The fact that he supported The FARC in the first place is unforgivable. Do you disagree with this?   

I have forgiven most everybody for a lot of things so yes I would say it is forgivable since he turned away from them for many years.  Those that lost loved ones and feel Chavez helped enable the farc obviously don't have to. 


Fathertime!