Should she study English in Colombia or wait until she gets here?

[V_Man]

Given the extremely limited oportunities for her to use Spanish here, she will be immersed in English no matter what. So at least we don't really have that concern.

Learning a language as an adult is difficult but personally I could never learn one in school as a child. For my wife, I think it is much more difficult than it is for me.

I would like to know more about Benjio's comment:

If you've ever been inside a Colombian Classroom it should be pretty self explanatory why they have such a difficult time learning new things as an adult.

In my wife's case, she mispronouned her English words in class at school so the teacher brought her to the front of the class and ridiculed her attempts infront of everyone!!  Imagine a teacher taking this approach! Unreal! Now my wife has a mental block whenever she trys to say a word in English.
I notice she understands a lot more than you would imagine, given how little she can verbalise.

However I suspect Benijo was refering to something else. I'd like to know more.

[Micky]

VM -

Do not know what BenJ has to say (it will be spot on)  but.  When I was first here and I was helping Mateo with some math homework.  He had an answer that was wrong and I asked him to work the problem in front of me.  I do not recall exactly what it was (oldtimers) but it was a simple formula.  Mateo was going through some bizarre process for the answer.  The process would give you the correct answer,  but the process sucked big time.
The story about your wife's teacher,  that does suck!  I find it strange that people laugh and ridicule others that are trying to learn a new language.  Patience and encouragement are the only modes to apply to help someone.  Others can chime in on this.  My own experience is that I find in the industrialized nations,  a big generalization,  people try to help non native speakers when talking.  When they are close with a word,  people will help them 'fish'  for the word they want.  In LA/SA when a non native speaker is close with a word,  the person they are talking to,  generally,  don't really help much.  Not like they take context into consideration and try help and go from there.  Could also be my skills suck. 

Micky

[robert angel]

Definitely lot's of truth to that Rob.  My wife has taken ESL classes here with people who have been in Canada for several years and are still at a low level.  And the reason is ... you guessed it ... they speak their native language at home and almost all the rest of the day, except in class.


The big advantage for a non-English speaker marrying an English speaker is that they can practice with you at home ... if you maintain the discipline and patience to do it with her.


My wife doesn't have a natural aptitude for language and at 37 now, it's not easy for her.  She's doing very well, but all of that comes from hard work, dedication to her studies, and being immersed in English about 80% of her waking day.

A big part of it Whitey is that she loves the heck out of you (and you her) and you're both very focused on the task, in home and outside. My wife applied herself and  'fixed' some glaring verbal boo boos she once made--now 'scissors' are just that and not 'ceeasors', 'that's' just that and not 'dat' and so on.... Those long EEE sounds used to kill me--I weeesh I had more patience.

 
Written expression is something we still work on and probably always will--it just doesn't come easy, as she was all about Math and Science from a young age. I think in some places--certainly in my wife's orginal home area, not having a lot of books and  magazines  to casually read for fun from a young age on also effected her ability to write creatively to this day. She laments that if she had attended private schools her first few years instead of starting parochial mid elementary, she'd have come along better, but she's fought to improve--to excel, all along.
 
We don't realize how formative having things like nursery rhyme books, Dr. Seuss, comic books, magazines and later, chapter books are from a young age. A lot of 3rd world countries have few such resources for the poor, libraries are non existent and in stores, all magazines are wrapped and books not accessible. With tea and baked goods nearby, my wife loves to spend hours in book stores near our home, reading all kinds of books & magazines, wishing her family could join us. That's our 'cheap date'.

 
I wasn't pushy and thankfully she was self motivated to improve her pronunciation. TOO self conscious maybe...A friend of mine offered her a job at the local public school that would've paid almost $40,000 (to start) for teaching 4 year olds in our lottery funded pre K program for just an 180 day school year. She'd be making mid 50's by now and be vested in a pension too--oh well.  She refused the job on principle, saying "I don't want those little kids learning from me and speaking English like I do!" That was the best starting salary offer she's had thus far.

 
Sometimes I wonder if I should've been and still should be more pushy--aggressive in making her finally decide on a career, but English isn't a real hangup anymore and she's been pretty happy with work. Even though every 2 or 3 years it's been something new workwise, if she's happy, we're happy. If she didn't send almost all her earnings back home, I'd be cool with her staying home, but she'd be bored to death--like Nazly, she'd do volunteer work in that case....Guess I'd make a lousy pimp!

[benjio]

I would like to know more about Benjio's comment:
In my wife's case, she mispronouned her English words in class at school so the teacher brought her to the front of the class and ridiculed her attempts infront of everyone!!  Imagine a teacher taking this approach! Unreal! Now my wife has a mental block whenever she trys to say a word in English.
I notice she understands a lot more than you would imagine, given how little she can verbalise.
However I suspect Benijo was refering to something else. I'd like to know more.

V_Man,
 
Where do I begin? In 2009 I was dead set on moving to Colombia for at least a year. Micky and Whitey probably remember me posting all about it on Gringos.com. Although I had a nice chunk of change saved up, I didn't want to be there sitting on my ass so I thought I'd teach English (easiest gig for a gringo to get a work visa for). I went to Lone Star College in Houston and got my CELTA Certification, and began to volunteer at Literacy Advance. A few months later I interviewed with the Language Department at the Universidad del Norte in Barranquilla. They were impressed with my resume but told me I needed more experience teaching English in a foreign country. I had a very good friend I knew from the states that taught English at an language institute in Pereira, Colombia. He told me I could do some volunteer tutoring there until they finished up my visa. I also did some work at Colombo in Pereira and volunteered at a local colegio for children 5 to 12 years old.
 
While volunteering at the colegio I got a first hand look at primary education in Colombia. You'd never realize how important some of the mundane tasks elementary schools in the United States make children do are until you meet adults that never did them as children. Along with the alphabet, colors and shapes, at a very early age Americans begin to learn how to use deductive reasoning, context clues and logic. I'm no Cognitive Scientist but I think exercises that enhance these kinds of abilities affect brain development. These types of skills aren't taught at any level in Colombian schools. They never develop the ability to use logic unless they do it on their own. For the most part they are never taught to deduct logical conclusions from pertinent information. I think this makes it extremely difficult to learn new things as an adult.
 
It's not that the English Language is more difficult to learn than Spanish. I've said that numerous times on this forum. With Spanish, in addition to vocabulary, a native English speaker has to learn the concept of tense dependent verb conjugation, gender based adjectives, etc. However, Colombians have an extremely hard time picking up on English as adults because of the way they are initially educated. They are taught like robots because the average Colombian will eventually do robot work when they grow up.

[robbierobnj]

 I'm sure it is earsier for kids to learn any language. However i have a friend who  is 24  been in NJ  since she was 19 came with no English and she now speaks great english and is actually finished 2 years of county college and working towards a nursing degree.   Anyone can learn if they are motivated will her English ever be perfect ?  NO but she is able to communicate with everyone and will eventually have a career as a nurse.  I suggest a class at a comunity college

[benjio]

A big part of it Whitey is that she loves the heck out of you (and you her) and you're both very focused on the task, in home and outside.

In my opinion, regardless of where a foreign woman is from or what her educational background is, this is the most important factor. Loving you and valuing your relationship enough to do whatevers necessary to learn.

[fathertime]

I'm sure it is earsier for kids to learn any language. However i have a friend who  is 24  been in NJ  since she was 19 came with no English and she now speaks great english and is actually finished 2 years of county college and working towards a nursing degree.   Anyone can learn if they are motivated will her English ever be perfect ?  NO but she is able to communicate with everyone and will eventually have a career as a nurse.  I suggest a class at a comunity college

i gotta agree with this sentiment.  My wife did a helluva job...she had some foundations when she arrived at age 23  Somehow the adult learning and college classes here in the states just enabled her English to take off...like you said not quite fluent, but very close now.   I think she was one of those 'naturals' though, because it didn't come hard for her, so i imagine learning was fun and that makes a person want to learn/participate more and starts a good cycle...
Fathertime! 

[mambocowboy]

V_Man,
 
Where do I begin? In 2009 I was dead set on moving to Colombia for at least a year. Micky and Whitey probably remember me posting all about it on Gringos.com. Although I had a nice chunk of change saved up, I didn't want to be there sitting on my ass so I thought I'd teach English (easiest gig for a gringo to get a work visa for). I went to Lone Star College in Houston and got my CELTA Certification, and began to volunteer at Literacy Advance. A few months later I interviewed with the Language Department at the Universidad del Norte in Barranquilla. They were impressed with my resume but told me I needed more experience teaching English in a foreign country. I had a very good friend I knew from the states that taught English at an language institute in Pereira, Colombia. He told me I could do some volunteer tutoring there until they finished up my visa. I also did some work at Colombo in Pereira and volunteered at a local colegio for children 5 to 12 years old.
 
While volunteering at the colegio I got a first hand look at primary education in Colombia. You'd never realize how important some of the mundane tasks elementary schools in the United States make children do are until you meet adults that never did them as children. Along with the alphabet, colors and shapes, at a very early age Americans begin to learn how to use deductive reasoning, context clues and logic. I'm no Cognitive Scientist but I think exercises that enhance these kinds of abilities affect brain development. These types of skills aren't taught at any level in Colombian schools. They never develop the ability to use logic unless they do it on their own. For the most part they are never taught to deduct logical conclusions from pertinent information. I think this makes it extremely difficult to learn new things as an adult.
 
It's not that the English Language is more difficult to learn than Spanish. I've said that numerous times on this forum. With Spanish, in addition to vocabulary, a native English speaker has to learn the concept of tense dependent verb conjugation, gender based adjectives, etc. However, Colombians have an extremely hard time picking up on English as adults because of the way they are initially educated. They are taught like robots because the average Colombian will eventually do robot work when they grow up.

I remember how boring and tedious it was in elementary school to have to diagram sentences. Well, an understanding of how sentences and thoughts are constructed came in very handy for me when I was  learning Spanish. I'm not sure they do much of that in the Colombian schools...

[Ray]

I'm sure it is earsier for kids to learn any language. However i have a friend who  is 24  been in NJ  since she was 19 came with no English and she now speaks great english and is actually finished 2 years of county college and working towards a nursing degree.   Anyone can learn if they are motivated will her English ever be perfect ?  NO but she is able to communicate with everyone and will eventually have a career as a nurse.  I suggest a class at a comunity college

 
I agree that motivation and hard work are important factors in learning a foreign language.
 
However, not everyone has an aptitude for learning a foreign language. When I entered the military, one of the tests we took was a foreign language aptitude test. They used the results to pre-screen candidates for foreign language schools and eventual assignment as interpreters.
 
I have also found that a very important factor in one's ability to learn a foreign language is an individual's mastery of his own native language. If you never mastered grammar, spelling and writing in your own language, then learning that stuff in a foreign language will be all that more difficult.
 
 
Ray
 

[benjio]

I have also found that a very important factor in one's ability to learn a foreign language is an individual's mastery of his own native language. If you never mastered grammar, spelling and writing in your own language, then learning that stuff in a foreign language will be all that more difficult.
 

That is an excellent point.

[whitey]

I have also found that a very important factor in one's ability to learn a foreign language is an individual's mastery of his own native language. If you never mastered grammar, spelling and writing in your own language, then learning that stuff in a foreign language will be all that more difficult.
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Ray

Yes, very true!

[jselva]

Hi Whitey
I dont have alot of time and am just perusing off and on here but i did read your story and unique journey to where you are from alone to finding your wife and its different and interesting to me as I am starting my thinking phase about all this. im not really a public type guy.
Could i email you a few questions privately? if so just email me here:
jselva2012@hotmail.com
 

[Researcher]

It doesn't hurt to study a language before actually having to depend on using it. Studying a language and having to depend on using it are two different things but I found by having a good grasp on the basics helped.

[whitey]

Hi Whitey
I dont have alot of time and am just perusing off and on here but i did read your story and unique journey to where you are from alone to finding your wife and its different and interesting to me as I am starting my thinking phase about all this. im not really a public type guy.
Could i email you a few questions privately? if so just email me here:
jselva2012@hotmail.com

Hey jselva ... happy to help if I can.  I think a couple more posts (when you reach ten), you'll be able to send/receive messages.