Should she study English in Colombia or wait until she gets here?

[V_Man]

I don't really have a question so much as a need to rant a little.

I am married but I have had to leave my wife in Colombia while we apply for a visa.
It is taking a long time to organise everything for the visa. Then the process itself takes months. It is a frustrating time. It is like our lives are on hold. 
We miss each other a lot!

Now we are talking about her doing some more English lessons in Colombia while this process plods on. I am wary because I don't see that she learnt much last time I paid for her lessons. Plus money is tighter now. Other Colombians have told me they never really learnt much English until they went to language school in Australia. This seems to be the case with my wife also.

Taking her to the Bahamas was a good experience for her. She experienced what it is like to have to rely on me to translate everything for her. During that time we were together 24/7 and on honeymoon. I.e. with total focus on each other. It began to dawn on her what daily life in an English speaking country might be like.

However it is finally really starting to sink in for her how difficult everything will be until she has enough English. Which realistically probably means IELTS 4.5 level. I have been telling her this for a year but lately I set out exactly what the real cost of living here is, exactly what she could earn in various jobs and what she needs to have to get those jobs. She says the reality of it gives her more motivation to learn.

I don't doubt her but I think she is the type of person that learns by doing. Hence I wonder how much she can learn until she is basically forced to use the language.

On the other hand if she could arrive with a vocabulary of say 500 words it will make a big difference. Then when she goes to school here it will be alot easier to make progress with a base, rather than from almost zero. Also she has a lot of time to study now.
One month of classes in Colombia costs less than a week of classes in Australia.

What do you reckon?

[Alabamaboy!]

I had two experiences with Costenas and learning English. Neither of them learned much of anything until the pressure was on. Especially with the younger gals, it seems they are more into socializing at any type of school that they are in rather than actually learning anything.

The first became completely fluent in less than a year with a combination of Rosetta Stone, computer software, writing daily letters, chatting with me for hours in English, phone conversations in English. When I paid for classes, she was basically just goofing off.

The other woman, my wife, did not learn anything with the study at home stuff or private lessons, but learned a lot at Colombo. But is still not really fluent.

So I think it is really hit and miss.

[fathertime]

why not start the english classes right away?  all it can do is help...even if it doesn't help much it will help a little. 


Fathertime! 

[bcc_1_2]

I would not consider even an engagement to a woman that was not at least conversational or very close to it. The language barrier can and will led to many problems and trainwrecks. Even if your espanol is good the problems will still mount. She'll get bored, wont have friends, no job. You are married now so the bottomline is that she will be taking ESL classes in the USA as soon as she comes. Hopefully it works out!

[mambocowboy]

I don't really have a question so much as a need to rant a little.

I am married but I have had to leave my wife in Colombia while we apply for a visa.
It is taking a long time to organise everything for the visa. Then the process itself takes months. It is a frustrating time. It is like our lives are on hold. 
We miss each other a lot!

Now we are talking about her doing some more English lessons in Colombia while this process plods on. I am wary because I don't see that she learnt much last time I paid for her lessons. Plus money is tighter now. Other Colombians have told me they never really learnt much English until they went to language school in Australia. This seems to be the case with my wife also.

Taking her to the Bahamas was a good experience for her. She experienced what it is like to have to rely on me to translate everything for her. During that time we were together 24/7 and on honeymoon. I.e. with total focus on each other. It began to dawn on her what daily life in an English speaking country might be like.

However it is finally really starting to sink in for her how difficult everything will be until she has enough English. Which realistically probably means IELTS 4.5 level. I have been telling her this for a year but lately I set out exactly what the real cost of living here is, exactly what she could earn in various jobs and what she needs to have to get those jobs. She says the reality of it gives her more motivation to learn.

I don't doubt her but I think she is the type of person that learns by doing. Hence I wonder how much she can learn until she is basically forced to use the language.

On the other hand if she could arrive with a vocabulary of say 500 words it will make a big difference. Then when she goes to school here it will be alot easier to make progress with a base, rather than from almost zero. Also she has a lot of time to study now.
One month of classes in Colombia costs less than a week of classes in Australia.

What do you reckon?

She'll probably learn a heck of a lot more when she gets to Australia, but heck every little bit helps.  My wife takes classes 4 nights a week and her English is improving, but I've often wished I'd started her on English classes before getting here...

[whitey]

I vote that she spend as much time as she can learning English now, before she arrives in Australia.


I'm guessing that you are speaking with her now almost entirely in Spanish?  While I think this is admirable and preferred in the early part of the relationship and especially when you are together in her country, once you get married and begin the visa process, it's important to start transitioning the relationship to English.


So, start spending half your time speaking/writing to each other in English now.  It may be strange and awkward at first, for both of you, but the earlier you start, the earlier her English will improve.


If money is an issue, apart from practising with you, there are lot's of free web sites, podcasts, etc. available.  If you like, I'd be happy to let you know which ones my wife enjoyed the most.


V_Man - once she gets to Australia, are the English classes paid by the gov't?

[Gato4Astrid]

It is because she isn't interested in learning your language!!  If she is really keen in learning your language, she would have done it already - especially you have paid for it.


What would happen if Australia Embassy becomes strict - like British Embassy?  "Must know at least A1 English" in order to live in Australia.


It is the main reason why Astrid & I had split up.  She was too lazy to try to learn English.  She only learnt when I was on webcam with her, but never on her own time.  She had to learn English in order to live in UK because of strict British Embassy.


You were too rush to marry her.


Hope things will work out for you and her with the language

[V_Man]

Yes we only communicate in Spanish.
I have made a few attempts to get her to use a little English in our communication. However it quickly ends if I don't keep pressing for it. Which I don't.
I think you are correct somehow I need to maintain the discipline on her behalf.

I think she lacks the study ethic and self discipline to learn independantly. I'm similar. I need to attend a weekly class. I learn independantly to some degree in order to communicate with her and/or practice. But to learn anything new I need to go to a class. She partcularly needs to be led in her learning. However money is an issue so please tell me which ones your wife liked best. My wife can always have a go as a suplemental excercise.

I find it difficult to teach my wife anything unless I have the same resources as her. If I had the same book as she had infront of her then I could help her. So perhaps some free resrouces that we can both access would be helpful for me to lead her though the study.

For most people they would get 500 hours of free English lessons from the government. But it depends on the type of visa. In our case she will get no free lessons. I will have to pay for everything.

[Stevieboy]

Not tyring to rain on your parade brother, but I have little faith in anyone who's an adult from another country learning to speak english. Note how I said"speak". She might learn what the english words mean, but adults generally can't learn like children.
,
Nobody in my family that migrated from Mexico can speak decent english. My grandmother lived here for 60 years and NEVER spoke one lick of english. She also never cared to. But with that, my step father is a mexican medical doctor who's been married to my mother for 30 years, and he still can't speak decent english even though he has tried. You can talk to him all day long in english, and he'll understand you, but his toungue and mouth has a hard time speaking english.
,
I have concluded that I'll be the one who'll have to speak both languages.
       

[Micky]

VM -

Why not some classes now?  If the cost is not too bad,  does not put a strain on you guys.  And as the Great One (Whitey) said when you guys Skype you can help her as her classes go along,  increasing the English as time goes along.  It may also help with the waiting for the visa,  building and working on something positive together.  I really see no reason why not (other than cost as mentioned).  I would let Gato's negative comment go.  Reality is that Colombian Gov. numbers say that 3.85% of the population speaks English,  that is very low.  Pretty hard to learn a language when there is no one to speak and learn with in the course of a normal day.  Even in the time before the visa is done,  if she took three levels but only had one level down good,  I still see that as a positive and growth in the right direction.

Micky

[htown]

Not tyring to rain on your parade brother, but I have little faith in anyone who's an adult from another country learning to speak english. Note how I said"speak". She might learn what the english words mean, but adults generally can't learn like children.
,
Nobody in my family that migrated from Mexico can speak decent english. My grandmother lived here for 60 years and NEVER spoke one lick of english. She also never cared to. But with that, my step father is a mexican medical doctor who's been married to my mother for 30 years, and he still can't speak decent english even though he has tried. You can talk to him all day long in english, and he'll understand you, but his toungue and mouth has a hard time speaking english.
,
I have concluded that I'll be the one who'll have to speak both languages.
     

Stevieboy you're like a little child lost in the wilderness.


Vman lives in AUSTRALIA!  His wive HAS TO learn english sooner or later.  You can't compare australia to texas where it's not necessary to learn english.

[benjio]

I had a similar experience with my ex. Paid for classes at Jamie's (which are very fun and interactive), tried a university class, computer software, forcing English conversation....nothing worked. Till this very day, after all that I bet you she still can't get passed a casual greeting. Meanwhile I'm fluent in spanish and 80% there on Portuguese. I dont think one can assume that a woman's lack of motivation means she doesn't love you. If you've ever been inside a Colombian Classroom it should be pretty self explanatory why they have such a difficult time learning new things as an adult. The easiest way to learn any new language is immersion. Don't waste your money. Wait until she gets there and let the culture bathe her in English. She'll either learn to swim or drown miserably .

[V_Man]

It is because she isn't interested in learning your language!!  If she is really keen in learning your language, she would have done it already - especially you have paid for it.

mmm yes and no. She would not be interested in learning English or moving to Australia if she did not love me. Whereas I started learning basic Spanish and planning to visit South America before I had any plans to date a latina.
However she does love me and she is married to me and wants to give up everything to live with me in Australia. English is a requirement for daily life here basically.
So yes she does want to learn English but she does not want to learn English just for the fun of learning a new language.

A lot of people have problems learning another language or just learning problems in general. Forgive me for saying so Gato, but you should know that.

On the other hand, you do have a point that she does not have the drive and discipline to study and learn this subject like other people have. However I believe it has nothing to do with not wanting to learn English.

What would happen if Australia Embassy becomes strict - like British Embassy?  "Must know at least A1 English" in order to live in Australia.


It is the main reason why Astrid & I had split up.  She was too lazy to try to learn English.  She only learnt when I was on webcam with her, but never on her own time.  She had to learn English in order to live in UK because of strict British Embassy.

A1 is a hgh standard. I feel for you. You should lobby against that rule.
However I don't live in your country and there are no plans to introduce that rule here. She is going to be almost forced one way or another to learn English when she lives here. Hence am unsure why you asked me that question.

My country has a lot of other rules that make things difficult and we have had to work around those. These rules and our options are things we researched before we got married.

You were too rush to marry her.

Yes well, it's very difficult to argue with your asessment. I am sure many people are thinking the same thing even if they don't say it.
I never claimed to be wise in these matters.

However life is a set of choices and one has to decide what is really important to oneself.

Hope things will work out for you and her with the language

Thank you very much!!
I know it will be a very long road, but we will get there eventually.

[Stevieboy]

Stevieboy you're like a little child lost in the wilderness.


Vman lives in AUSTRALIA!  His wive HAS TO learn english sooner or later.  You can't compare australia to texas where it's not necessary to learn english.

.
I know he's from there, PENDAJA! Did you get dropped on your head a lot as a kid? You missed the point of what I said. Most here probably get the picture, except you. 
 

[mambocowboy]

Yes we only communicate in Spanish.
I have made a few attempts to get her to use a little English in our communication. However it quickly ends if I don't keep pressing for it. Which I don't.
I think you are correct somehow I need to maintain the discipline on her behalf.

I think she lacks the study ethic and self discipline to learn independantly. I'm similar. I need to attend a weekly class. I learn independantly to some degree in order to communicate with her and/or practice. But to learn anything new I need to go to a class. She partcularly needs to be led in her learning. However money is an issue so please tell me which ones your wife liked best. My wife can always have a go as a suplemental excercise.

I find it difficult to teach my wife anything unless I have the same resources as her. If I had the same book as she had infront of her then I could help her. So perhaps some free resrouces that we can both access would be helpful for me to lead her though the study.

For most people they would get 500 hours of free English lessons from the government. But it depends on the type of visa. In our case she will get no free lessons. I will have to pay for everything.

VMan, a couple things to keep in mind. 1) It takes Colombianas, even motivated ones, a hell of a lot longer to learn English than it seems to take us to learn Spanish. 2) Whitey gave me some good advice on this, which is, speak English to her. Ultimately, for me the reality of my wife's pace of learning English has led me to completely re-adjust my expectations for  how long it'll take her to learn the language. I was getting frustrated with it and it was just silly on my part because my wife was learning as fast as she could...

[whitey]

My wife likes:

http://www.engvid.com/
http://elllo.org/
http://agendaweb.org/
http://englishpage.com/
http://www.manythings.org/
http://esl.culips.com/

You might have her start engVid since they are kind of humorous and fun videos.

Wow, I'm surprised you have to pay for her English classes in Oz - that sucks!  I've mentioned before that we're fortunate here in Canada to have the gov't invest in English classes for newcomers.  My wife arrived at level 4 ESL English (out of 8 levels), and graduated 13 months later.

She is now enrolled in high school, and will have her equivalency in June.  The best students in her class are herself and another colombiana ... they are both earning 95%+ averages while the rest of the class (mostly Canadians) have appalling 55-60%.

This is all paid for by the gov't ... which frees me up to buy her all the new clothes, shoes, boots, jackets, hats, scarves, mittens, etc. that she needs here ...    

[Micky]

Whitey -

Tell the truth brother.  Don't you really mean,  it frees up money so you can buy her shoes,  shoes and more shoes?  She IS a Colombiana.

Micky

[John W]

I bought my fiancé an IPod and put the Pimsleur program on it for her. She did not use it much, so I got her Rosetta Stone and installed it on a laptop that I took her. The laptop was my old one, so I downloaded it up here and left the program up her as it was expensive and thought it might be damaged or stolen at her apartment. She had to reload the computer software so she lost the program. She said she liked Rosetta much more than Pimsleur. I checked out the Rosetta Stone and it seemed really easy, even at the higher levels. I am taking it back down to load on her computer during my next visit. Today she started English class at Colombo. They are 233,000 CP month. I was glad to hear that her instructor is from the United States. She is super excited, and I am hoping she will learn some English before getting here. I think it will make a big difference in helping her adjust to life up here. She is going to enroll in the ESL program at the local community college when she gets here. There are seven levels and each level lasts 16 weeks. If she can start on the second or third level instead of at the beginning, it will move here along that much faster. I think if your fiancé can start learning before she gets here it is a no brainer.

 

[fathertime]

I bought my fiancé an IPod and put the Pimsleur program on it for her. She did not use it much, so I got her Rosetta Stone and installed it on a laptop that I took her. The laptop was my old one, so I downloaded it up here and left the program up her as it was expensive and thought it might be damaged or stolen at her apartment. She had to reload the computer software so she lost the program. She said she liked Rosetta much more than Pimsleur. I checked out the Rosetta Stone and it seemed really easy, even at the higher levels. I am taking it back down to load on her computer during my next visit. Today she started English class at Colombo. They are 233,000 CP month. I was glad to hear that her instructor is from the United States. She is super excited, and I am hoping she will learn some English before getting here. I think it will make a big difference in helping her adjust to life up here. She is going to enroll in the ESL program at the local community college when she gets here. There are seven levels and each level lasts 16 weeks. If she can start on the second or third level instead of at the beginning, it will move here along that much faster. I think if your fiancé can start learning before she gets here it is a no brainer.

 

Hey John W., 


i'm glad to read that you decided to marry that sweet looking colombian  babe!  I don't know how you resisted for more than 10 minutes.                


Fathertime! 

[whitey]

Whitey -

Tell the truth brother.  Don't you really mean,  it frees up money so you can buy her shoes,  shoes and more shoes?  She IS a Colombiana.

Micky

Haha ... you know it, Micky ... and I do love to see her in the high heels.  Actually, since it's winter at the moment she's into high heeled leather boots ... just can't wear those in BAQ ... they look pretty sexy too!

[benjio]

Haha ... you know it, Micky ... and I do love to see her in the high heels.  Actually, since it's winter at the moment she's into high heeled leather boots ... just can't wear those in BAQ ... they look pretty sexy too!

HELL YEAH THEY ARE!!! Those high heel boots are one of the only things I like about Bogota!!!

[V_Man]

My wife has a big collection of those boots and she says there is no point in bringing them to the heat of Australia. I see her point but I am hoping she may bring one or two anyway. 

[Gato4Astrid]

My wife has a big collection of those boots and she says there is no point in bringing them to the heat of Australia. I see her point but I am hoping she may bring one or two anyway. 

Good luck to many more shopping trips for you.............. expensive boots 

[robert angel]

While trying to learn English after you're age 21 and above doesn't cause any harm, it's my experience that once you're past age 21 it is much, much harder. The brain changes and isn't as 'receptive' in most people to learning new languages.
 
In particular, I see people from Mexico, South, Central America  and even Puerto Rico, living for years here in the USA who still have to have their kids translate for them. Most of these folks are exposed to English daily and understand more than they speak, but in terms of learning converstaional English, it's sort of like they've missed the boat.

[whitey]

While trying to learn English after you're age 21 and above doesn't cause any harm, it's my experience that once you're past age 21 it is much, much harder. The brain changes and isn't as 'receptive' in most people to learning new languages.
 
In particular, I see people from Mexico, South, Central America  and even Puerto Rico, living for years here in the USA who still have to have their kids translate for them. Most of these folks are exposed to English daily and understand more than they speak, but in terms of learning converstaional English, it's sort of like they've missed the boat.

Definitely lot's of truth to that Rob.  My wife has taken ESL classes here with people who have been in Canada for several years and are still at a low level.  And the reason is ... you guessed it ... they speak their native language at home and almost all the rest of the day, except in class.


The big advantage for a non-English speaker marrying an English speaker is that they can practice with you at home ... if you maintain the discipline and patience to do it with her.


My wife doesn't have a natural aptitude for language and at 37 now, it's not easy for her.  She's doing very well, but all of that comes from hard work, dedication to her studies, and being immersed in English about 80% of her waking day.