Just Decriminalize It Already

[bcc_1_2]

I don't do drugs. I rarely have more than one drink on a social night out. I don't smoke anything. If drugs became decriminalized I would not do them.
That being said I think it is high time all drugs became regulated. They are illegal right now and we clearly are not stopping it. If you want to call this a drug war then Narco is basically Hilter in a bunker right now. I think the penalty for people that commit crimes under the influence should be harsh, but I think it is time to regulate it. And most important I think we should tax it. I think in the first 2 or 3 years we'd have a spike in drug use... no question. But I think over time the cool factor would go away and overall it would decrease drastically in 10 or 15 years. You'll still have your deadbeat folks on drugs... but I don't think it would be considered as cool as it is right now. And you have to get Western Europe in on this too.
And sure this had made a lot of people mad reading this because of your politics, but let me be the first to tell you I don't give a crap about your politics... because likely you don't have a real stake in this.
In Honduras the gang turf wars and violence is so bad my wife can't go back home to Tela because everyone knows she is married to a gringo. If she wants to see her family we'd have to do it in La Ceiba or probably Cancun/San Jose.
If you read the internet boards whore mongers in San Salvador are pissed because the parlors and clubs close at 8 or 9 PM because everyone has to get off the street at night. Colombia as many note is going down hill right now... but I haven't been there in awhile so I can't say for sure on that.
The only safe places to travel in Mexico are Cancun and parts of Mexico City. The rest is considered dangerous by the state department. Northern Mexico has gone to hell. I can't imagine going back to Monterrey right now.
So we are turning the lives of millions of people into hell just so we can NOT stop Americans and Western Europeans from getting high. It is pure madness and it needs to stop now.
We need to change our laws while sitting down with these governments to rid countries of gang violence. And by we I mean the entire western world. But when drugs stop being profitable dealing with these gangs will finally become manageable. There will still be a poverty issue of course, but before anything can be done the dollars have to dry up to the illegal drug markets.

[robert angel]

I agree with the above, but I think that prisons, namely building and running them, are right at the top of the economic sector in terms of growth and profit to be made. In my state, you get caught with even a little bit of marijuana and you do prison time and pay substantal fines, probation and drug testing costs that typically run an additional year or more after release.
 
Want to get rich in my state? Cozy up to a politican and finagle your way into a contract to build and/or run a prison for the state. There's little to no rehabilitation there, prisoners more often than not end up back in prison and the USA has the greatest percentage of it's population incarcerated in prisons of any nation on earth.
 
I'm not saying let out dangerous, violent offenders any time soon, but that the way things run now is skewed the wrong way.
 
I think that there's a disincentive towards legalizing or regulating, in effectively 'decriminalizing' them in my, and most likely other states. In no small part it's due to a want for control and profit.

[Ray]

And sure this had made a lot of people mad reading this because of your politics, but let me be the first to tell you I don't give a crap about your politics... because likely you don't have a real stake in this.

Actually, politics has nothing to do with this, despite the leftist drivel you hear on MSNBC and CNN.
 
When you have teenage children of your own and their whole life goes down the toilet because they get hooked on drugs, then you just might see the light, regardless of your political leanings.
 
And don't give me this crap that it will be regulated so children won't have access.
 
I couldn't care less what the stupid dopers want and I don't care to live in a society with millions more walking around stoned all the time. Screw them!
 
 
Ray
 
 
 

[whitey]

I'm not ready to get behind legalizing any physically addictive drugs that cannot be done safely in moderation. 


Marijuana, alcohol, caffeine for me are examples of drugs that should be legal.  Cocaine, heroin, crack, opium, meth, etc ... no.

[Fuzzyone]

Actually, politics has nothing to do with this, despite the leftist drivel you hear on MSNBC and CNN.
 
When you have teenage children of your own and their whole life goes down the toilet because they get hooked on drugs, then you just might see the light, regardless of your political leanings.
 
And don't give me this crap that it will be regulated so children won't have access.
 
I couldn't care less what the stupid dopers want and I don't care to live in a society with millions more walking around stoned all the time. Screw them!
 
 
Ray

I pretty much agree, I hear about all the tax revenue we will make. I wanted to know who will pay for their medical 10 years from now when all they are doing is sleeping in moms basement playing xbox games all night? It is bad enough putting up with some idiot that is drunk behind the wheel, I sure do not want some moron who is stoned killing my family.

[Stevieboy]

As a drinker and occasional pot smoker, legalizing drugs is a stupid move IMO. Cartels will never stop just because pot can be grown here. The demand and cost will just rise, therefore, they'll keep smuggling it. People are generally stupid and even more lazy and dependant these days than before. So not only can you buy alcohol at a store, but also pot and maybe coke? Yeah, good move. How bout just dicrimminalizing it and overfilling the prisons and creating criminals.

[htown]

As a drinker and occasional pot smoker, legalizing drugs is a stupid move IMO. Cartels will never stop just because pot can be grown here. The demand and cost will just rise, therefore, they'll keep smuggling it. People are generally stupid and even more lazy and dependant these days than before. So not only can you buy alcohol at a store, but also pot and maybe coke? Yeah, good move. How bout just dicrimminalizing it and overfilling the prisons and creating criminals.

There is absolutely no logic in anything you just said.  I think you were high as a kite when you wrote this stevieboy lmao!!

[bcc_1_2]

The reality in Honduras is just awful. Thankfully her parents live in a pretty small beach town... if they lived in San Pedro Sula they'd definitely have to move because the gangs would kidnap them for ransom. We'll probably never go back to Tela again to protect everyone's safety at this point.
Right now it is just keep the status quo for us and wait to see if things can change, but I doubt the government is going to get a handle on these gangs. The thought was to buy a house in La Ceiba (nothing too fancy) so nobody would know her parents had a daughter married to a gringo. She could visit them I suppose, but there is no way our kid (and especially me) could. Because then everyone knows about the gringo family.
I've obviously seen some "teens hooked on drugs" just not my own... because I'm not old enough to have a teen. Regardless my point was that if the teen wants to make that bad choice... it is completely available to that teen now.
The choice I think we have is if we want to clean up Latin America or ignore it. And the only possible way I see getting a handle on these gangs is to take away their revenue.
As to Ray's comment it certainly is sad to see a young person hooked on drugs. But they are illegal and it is happening anyways as you note.
Why should a teen's decision to make a bad choice be more important than the safety of my wife's family who want nothing to do with drugs, violence, or weapons yet if we are not very careful it may well be forced on them.

[Fuzzyone]

  Does any here really think weed is the major money maker for these gangs? Yes does make them some cash but try coke crystal meth heroin. I think these are you major cash makers and I really hope no one here thinks we should decriminalize these right?

[V_Man]

Actually, politics has nothing to do with this, despite the leftist drivel you hear on MSNBC and CNN.
 
When you have teenage children of your own and their whole life goes down the toilet because they get hooked on drugs, then you just might see the light, regardless of your political leanings.
 
And don't give me this crap that it will be regulated so children won't have access.
 
I couldn't care less what the stupid dopers want and I don't care to live in a society with millions more walking around stoned all the time. Screw them!
 
 
Ray
 
 
 

In countries where drugs have been legalised, the usage has decreased. The biggest drop is amongst young people.


Criminalisation and sticking your head in the sand is not the way to teach children to make good chioces. Those chioces are always going to be out there.

[beulah]

Criminalisation and sticking your head in the sand is not the way to teach children to make good chioces. Those chioces are always going to be out there.

where did you get the sticking your head in the sand part from?  I don't think ray or anybody else is advocating doing that. 

[bcc_1_2]

where did you get the sticking your head in the sand part from?  I don't think ray or anybody else is advocating doing that.

google... metaphor.  then google... troll
 

[beulah]

google... metaphor.  then google... troll

wow you are suddenly angry now because I mentioned that nobody is putting their head in the sand about drugs?  I guess you are much more naive then I though. Lmao.

[fathertime]

I don't do drugs. I rarely have more than one drink on a social night out. I don't smoke anything. If drugs became decriminalized I would not do them.
That being said I think it is high time all drugs became regulated. They are illegal right now and we clearly are not stopping it. If you want to call this a drug war then Narco is basically Hilter in a bunker right now. I think the penalty for people that commit crimes under the influence should be harsh, but I think it is time to regulate it. And most important I think we should tax it. I think in the first 2 or 3 years we'd have a spike in drug use... no question. But I think over time the cool factor would go away and overall it would decrease drastically in 10 or 15 years. You'll still have your deadbeat folks on drugs... but I don't think it would be considered as cool as it is right now. And you have to get Western Europe in on this too.
And sure this had made a lot of people mad reading this because of your politics, but let me be the first to tell you I don't give a crap about your politics... because likely you don't have a real stake in this.
In Honduras the gang turf wars and violence is so bad my wife can't go back home to Tela because everyone knows she is married to a gringo. If she wants to see her family we'd have to do it in La Ceiba or probably Cancun/San Jose.
If you read the internet boards whore mongers in San Salvador are pissed because the parlors and clubs close at 8 or 9 PM because everyone has to get off the street at night. Colombia as many note is going down hill right now... but I haven't been there in awhile so I can't say for sure on that.
The only safe places to travel in Mexico are Cancun and parts of Mexico City. The rest is considered dangerous by the state department. Northern Mexico has gone to hell. I can't imagine going back to Monterrey right now.
So we are turning the lives of millions of people into hell just so we can NOT stop Americans and Western Europeans from getting high. It is pure madness and it needs to stop now.
We need to change our laws while sitting down with these governments to rid countries of gang violence. And by we I mean the entire western world. But when drugs stop being profitable dealing with these gangs will finally become manageable. There will still be a poverty issue of course, but before anything can be done the dollars have to dry up to the illegal drug markets.

My main concern is how legalization would affect me and my family.  Secondarily I would like to see as much freedom as possible in the USA.  I’d be open to legalization of marijuana if I thought that the legal system would do a good job of prosecuting impaired drivers and I mean strict penalties or jail time for repeat offenders.  The problem is, I have concerns that this may not be the case, which would mean more impaired drivers and that REALLY would bother me, as it could impact my family.

I’m ok with marijuana users doing their little drug in the confines of their home and spacing out for hours on video games or eating bags of cheetos in their underware.  Maybe a waste of life but doesn't hurt me and it will  probably cut down on traffic and will cut their carbon footprint! haha

Fathertime! 

[Stevieboy]

I’m ok with marijuana users doing their little drug in the confines of their home and spacing out for hours on video games or eating bags of cheetos in their underware.  Maybe a waste of life but doesn't hurt me and it will  probably cut down on traffic and will cut their carbon footprint! haha

You forgot samiches, pizza, and my all time favorite brownies and ice cream.     

[bcc_1_2]

My main concern is how legalization would affect me and my family. 

If it ever gets bad enough in Colombia... just the fact that your wife is married to a gringo... and the community knows it... could make her family in Colombia a big target for kidnapping.
I'm assuming your mindset is that once they become legal the flood gates would open. But I think the reality is that they already are. The fact that these drugs are deemed illegal might give families a false sense of security if anything.

[V_Man]

IMHO there is a vast difference between marijuana and other illegal drugs. marijuana does less harm than tobaco and alcohol.

Fathertime has a good point in that marijuanalegalisation should come hand in hand with traffic cops, park rangers, water police and employers having on the spot testers.
These people are going to smoke it anyway and they aren't doing any harm to other people as long as they aren't operating machinery of any kind. Criminalisation on the other hand is doing a huge amount of damage.

I think hard drugs are completely different. As Whitey points out these are physically addictive. On the other hand, I can see that prohibition has not worked with those drugs either. I think the OP is on the right track. We need to find ways to take all the profit out of dealing these drugs in the first place.

[Flyboy777]

I'm not an advocate whatsoever of illegal drugs of any kind.   


I always wonder why there seems to be fewer problems in countries where drugs are "more available" legally like Holland for example and a few other countries.


My personal theory is this:  Just like we all on this forum either today or in the past have "enjoyed the thrill of the chase" so to speak....  the excitement of going to Colombia or any foreign land to meet a lovely and sexy woman.   Could it be that when the drugs become legalized to any degree, the "thrill of the chase" is gone and so part of the "high" of it all is greatly diminished.


Anyways, just a thought....


Pat

[Ray]

Criminalisation and sticking your head in the sand is not the way to teach children to make good chioces. Those chioces are always going to be out there.

 

 
 
Just like decriminalization and sticking your head up your ass isn't going to teach your children to make good choices about drug use either...
 
 
 

 
 

[htown]

The reality in Honduras is just awful. Thankfully her parents live in a pretty small beach town... if they lived in San Pedro Sula they'd definitely have to move because the gangs would kidnap them for ransom. We'll probably never go back to Tela again to protect everyone's safety at this point.
Right now it is just keep the status quo for us and wait to see if things can change, but I doubt the government is going to get a handle on these gangs. The thought was to buy a house in La Ceiba (nothing too fancy) so nobody would know her parents had a daughter married to a gringo. She could visit them I suppose, but there is no way our kid (and especially me) could. Because then everyone knows about the gringo family.
I've obviously seen some "teens hooked on drugs" just not my own... because I'm not old enough to have a teen. Regardless my point was that if the teen wants to make that bad choice... it is completely available to that teen now.
The choice I think we have is if we want to clean up Latin America or ignore it. And the only possible way I see getting a handle on these gangs is to take away their revenue.
As to Ray's comment it certainly is sad to see a young person hooked on drugs. But they are illegal and it is happening anyways as you note.
Why should a teen's decision to make a bad choice be more important than the safety of my wife's family who want nothing to do with drugs, violence, or weapons yet if we are not very careful it may well be forced on them.

Weed doesn't even come from honduras.  I don't think any of these honduran "gangs" you speak of make alot, if any, money trafficking drugs to the us.

[bcc_1_2]

I don't think any of these honduran "gangs" you speak of make alot, if any, money trafficking drugs to the us.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/25/15426874-drug-gang-bust-in-honduras-nets-100m-assets?lite
You really need to do your homework before making statements that are just completely inaccurate. Honduras is getting real bad & it is drugs and gangs that are to blame.
Decriminalization will not teach kids to make good decisions. Who would argue against that Ray? The point that is being made is that they are illegal and that just has no hindrance at all. It sounds like someone close to you has been hit by drugs. I have seen it in my extended family with one person. The fact that his drug of choice was illegal made absolutely no difference.
 

[beulah]

[
Decriminalization will not teach kids to make good decisions. Who would argue against that Ray? The point that is being made is that they are illegal and that just has no hindrance at all. It sounds like someone close to you has been hit by drugs. I have seen it in my extended family with one person. The fact that his drug of choice was illegal made absolutely no difference.

what you really need is a class in introductory logic, because what you said makes no sense.  Nobody knows what would happen in the united states 2013 if drugs were legalized, so to say keeping drugs illegal is no hinderence is just an ignorant statement and delegitimizes your point of view.   

[Stevieboy]

I wonder if those that copy and paste statistics and quotes have even done drugs or have close family that have ever been addicted to drugs. To say that places where drugs are legal like Amsterdam have no rise in addiction rates means they only read statistics they agree with. NOBODY  I know that smokes pot agrees legalizing it would make the person smoke less. Infact more people will be doing it. I dont even know why it's an argument. What it is is political correct crap and the refusal to call a spade a spade.

[bcc_1_2]

We do have history from which we can learn. Alcohol was banned in the past... and members of my family were boot leggers in south dakota and spent some time over the border as well. According to them (now all deceased) alcohol was still widely available and it only led to organized crime and an inferior product (poisonous even) being available in the speak easys (according to them, their stuff was good). But it was a way for them in challenging times to make some coin.
I suppose it leads to the even bigger question as to is a life because it was born between our two borders that much more special. That we only focus on the people making poor decisions here and not take responsiblity for the impact that our policies create for others.
I have yet to hear from a scientist that says weed is worse than alcohol. In fact they all suggest quite the opposite. Again I would not smoke weed, but I'd much rather deal with someone on that rather than a drunk. Alcohol has a rich powerful lobby and weed doesn't. Weed doesn't scare me... it is people on the hard stuff. But still the hard stuff is there today... and If I wanted it I could become a consumer... and the law does not stand in my way. The supply is there and the demand is there. The law has not been able to change that.
The reason the drug trade has moved to Honduras more is because of the Mexican government crack down. If we take the revenue stream away we are changing the lives of millions in Mexico & Central America. That could lead to a day where anyone related to a gringo isn't a possible kidnap victim. Which to me is more important than not stopping a teen that got their hands on drugs and made a poor decision.

[htown]

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/25/15426874-drug-gang-bust-in-honduras-nets-100m-assets?lite
You really need to do your homework before making statements that are just completely inaccurate. Honduras is getting real bad & it is drugs and gangs that are to blame.
Decriminalization will not teach kids to make good decisions. Who would argue against that Ray? The point that is being made is that they are illegal and that just has no hindrance at all. It sounds like someone close to you has been hit by drugs. I have seen it in my extended family with one person. The fact that his drug of choice was illegal made absolutely no difference.

That article you quoted says that it's the mexican and colombian cartels who are operating in honduras.  It doesn't say anything about these "honduran drug gangs" that you speak of. 

What about venezuela and brazil?  Two of the most dangerous murderous countries.  I don't think their high murder andcrime rates can be blamed on drug trafficking.

And what about peru and bolivia?  There's probably more cocaine producing and trafficking going on there than anywhere and you don't see the extreme crime and murder rates that you see in other countries.

I'm not saying I disagree or agree with anybody here.  It's an extremely complicated situation and needs to be looked at from many different angles.

Btw i happen to be in a honduran restaurant right now as I type this on my phone.  Damn I freaking love these hondureñas!!