Feminism/Why are you looking outside your country?

[Zon]

I also agree that "feminism" is a bad label for the points often discussed here, because it contributes to a misunderstanding.   


Gender roles may be more correct?  Now consider the roles of gender in the USA (the good, the bad, and the ugly) and compare it to other places - Colombia, for example.  The differences are MANY!

[beulah]

I also agree that "feminism" is a bad label for the points often discussed here, because it contributes to a misunderstanding.   


Gender roles may be more correct?  Now consider the roles of gender in the USA (the good, the bad, and the ugly) and compare it to other places - Colombia, for example.  The differences are MANY!

. How are gender roles so different in colombia?  I believe unique couples create whatever roles fit best regardless of nationality.  Open question.  Am I wrong to think that?

[JasonA]

Sorry for my rant earlier. Yeah, let's move on from the feminist debate...
 
I am still curious about why each person is looking to other countries. (and if it is because of feminism, feel free to say so... lol)

[Zon]

How are gender roles so different in colombia?  I believe unique couples create whatever roles fit best regardless of nationality.  Open question.  Am I wrong to think that?

'

While it is true that the roles of each couple are unique ... to answer your comment broadly "How are gender roles so different in Colombia?  I say, almost night and day.

I have been in the USA for a while now, and, at first I dated pretty aggressively with "surprising success."  I had not dated much in the USA for the past couple years.  I am getting older, and boyish charm does not suit me any more.   I found myself dating women 26 - 35 that were pretty much equal to the type of women I have dated in South America / Eastern Europe (which means they were hot).  But, after those first couple dates ... things fizzed out pretty quickly.  Why?

- I found that most of the women I met had a MUCH MORE self-centered nature.  This was true with them and their group of friends.  It was true in how they performed as mothers too. SELFISH
- I found that there was a strong element of MATERIALISM.  Many of the dates, at times, felt like a job interview.
- GPS - Golden Pussy Syndrome.   There is an elevated value of the female sexually compared to South America / Eastern Europe.
... But, other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

I do not want to FIND A WIFE in a different country.  I enjoy LIVING in different countries.

It is true!  There are men that bitch about every little thing to justify a very narrow interest for mingling with younger women. There are men that date and romance WAY OUT OF THEIR LEAGUE - 62 year old men "dating" 20 year old women does not pass the straight face test in any country.  There are men that buy and sponsor - sometimes this is disguised as courtship.  Rightly or wrongly, that describes much of the gringo traffic SOTB.

[whitey]

There are men that date and romance WAY OUT OF THEIR LEAGUE - 62 year old men "dating" 20 year old women does not pass the straight face test in any country.  There are men that buy and sponsor - sometimes this is disguised as courtship.  Rightly or wrongly, that describes much of the gringo traffic SOTB.

Not disagreeing ... just noting that this describes the behaviour of a lot of Colombian men too ... both living in Colombia and "sponsoring" women while living in another country ...

[fathertime]

'

While it is true that the roles of each couple are unique ... to answer your comment broadly "How are gender roles so different in Colombia?  I say, almost night and day.

I have been in the USA for a while now, and, at first I dated pretty aggressively with "surprising success."  I had not dated much in the USA for the past couple years.  I am getting older, and boyish charm does not suit me any more.   I found myself dating women 26 - 35 that were pretty much equal to the type of women I have dated in South America / Eastern Europe (which means they were hot).  But, after those first couple dates ... things fizzed out pretty quickly.  Why?

- I found that most of the women I met had a MUCH MORE self-centered nature.  This was true with them and their group of friends.  It was true in how they performed as mothers too. SELFISH
- I found that there was a strong element of MATERIALISM.  Many of the dates, at times, felt like a job interview.
- GPS - Golden Pussy Syndrome.   There is an elevated value of the female sexually compared to South America / Eastern Europe.
... But, other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

I recall you lodging very similar complaints about the Colombian ladies, so there doesn’t seem to be much of a difference for you.

Maybe you should just rejoice your place on the food chain and life and quit the perpetual miserable grumbling and complaints about the ladies.  You are old (and wrinkly) now and the most likely outcome for you will be something involving some real quid pro quo, but things could be worse, you could be old, broke, and completely option free!

Fathertime!

[A_Thomas]

 I read a good bit of this thread and I have to chuckle...
 
 I find only certain kinds of men constantly scream about Feminism. While Feminism has damaged our ability to have relationships with traditional rolls, it means the rolls need to be redefined, which many men are resistant too.


 In America, I generally do not have a problem dating, attracting women, etc, etc.


 My problem is because I am over 40 and Americans being more sensitive to age than even Western Europeans means the majority of women in my dating pool is over 35. A majority of them have kids from previous relationships...


 This makes them unacceptable in my book, especially at their age, its too much of a compromise in my book.


 I started looking at my options but I already had interest in dating/marrying a woman not from America. I am still in contact (Friends) with a woman from Germany I originally met back in 1995.


 Its just economics prevented me from taking advantage until recently. Mostly because I didn't prioritize until now (well 2007).


 

[Zon]

1 -

Quote from: Zon on February 19, 2013, 04:34:26 PM


There are men that date and romance WAY OUT OF THEIR LEAGUE - 62 year old men "dating" 20 year old women does not pass the straight face test in any country.  There are men that buy and sponsor - sometimes this is disguised as courtship.  Rightly or wrongly, that describes much of the gringo traffic SOTB.




Not disagreeing ... just noting that this describes the behaviour of a lot of Colombian men too ... both living in Colombia and "sponsoring" women while living in another country ...

Of course, the problem occurs only when men try to take the norm in one country and transplant it in another.  That rarely works over the longer term.

[V_Man]

I read a good bit of this thread and I have to chuckle...
 
 I find only certain kinds of men constantly scream about Feminism. While Feminism has damaged our ability to have relationships with traditional rolls, it means the rolls need to be redefined, which many men are resistant too.

That could still be true in some parts but I rarely ever see it.
I only know one couple that have something like these traditional roles. None of the blokes want these traditional roles. Why would they? Yet all the blokes will identify the same issues with feminism.


As I say it could be true in your world. Maybe you know many of men that want traditional roles but I think in general your assumption is very outdated thinking and not at all representative of the majority. In fact I will not be surprised if you have been hoodwinked to think this way without actually talking to these men about it.

[jselva]

I am looking because I know if you look correctly you WILL find a good wife in Colombia. You look incorrectly you will have nothing but heartache.
One reason I really am impressed by member Whitey.
 
 

[Kiltboy1]

I am looking because I know if you look correctly you WILL find a good wife in Colombia. You look incorrectly you will have nothing but heartache.
One reason I really am impressed by member Whitey.

 
You are correct sir. Whitey , myself and others did find great Latin wives  as we chose correctly and based on what we wanted in a wife. I married a woman from Cali the first time that was a typical high maintenance , silicon boobs, Dom Cristal Champagne attitude to boot. You marry HM, expect to be expected to treat her HM. You marry a real woman with real values and you get a great partner to go through life with. I like girl next door types and there are great ones in LA if you can stay away from the fake body part types that most use that to get what they want( not all, but most)
 
KB

[A_Thomas]

That could still be true in some parts but I rarely ever see it.
I only know one couple that have something like these traditional roles. None of the blokes want these traditional roles. Why would they? Yet all the blokes will identify the same issues with feminism.


As I say it could be true in your world. Maybe you know many of men that want traditional roles but I think in general your assumption is very outdated thinking and not at all representative of the majority. In fact I will not be surprised if you have been hoodwinked to think this way without actually talking to these men about it.

 I made a statement, I don't believe we need traditional rolls so I agree with you. Actually, if you talk to enough American men in various forums you'll find this general attitude is pervasive. Its not about who does the cooking and cleaning, its about who's the bread winner in the family.


 Most American women and I would assume most Anglo culture women in general are not comfortable being the high income earner of the family. Men in these societies feel they are giving up some control if they aren't the bread winner. This social norm has been beaten into our heads and its not going to go away quickly. As Hanna Rosin recently said, it would help if other men and women wouldn't demonize men who are out picking up their children from school at Noon, believing it implies he's unemployed... Or if he's a house husband, he's "bitch made" never considered the millions of Americans that work from home (telecommute).


 This is an issue mostly with working class and below Americans. This is not an issue for equally educated upper middle class and millionaire middle class families. Yes there is a millionaire middle class. They don't consider themselves wealthy (they are 1%ers) compared to the Uber rich (.0001%) though.


 Go on any US dating site and how many women do you see say something like - I want a "Professional, Hard Working Man" mmkay, how many of those people exist and how many of them realistically have a dating problem? If your a professional in Ames, Iowa if you can get local college women to date you, great, but otherwise the local pickings would be very slim. On the flip if you live in NYC or Los Angeles, your dating pool is populated with many people such as yourself.


 As Charles Murray (who I don't agree with AT ALL) has outlined however the Rust belt getting rustier and those in the working class have gone from manufacturing to the service sector. Women don't move DOWN market, they either move sideways or upward.


 Now in extreme cases as the NYT and Hanna Rosin have outlined, men aren't going to college (I didn't) and all too often in America we attached what you have done or doing to your social status. Which is amazing because I have more social skills, experience and trade skills than 95% of college grads in my peer group (Gen X). However I discovered that to get away from obesity and single motherhood that pervasive in the working class segment of society, I have two choices -


 Make more money and move up (technically I am Middle Class, just don't have a degree) or put in a change of venue (look overseas). On top of that, I have picked up the travel bug and the expat bug and most Americans are too nationalistic to consider being an expat and feel traveling is too expensive.


 To my mind, the choice is obvious.


 Not once did I mention Feminism.... 






  [size=78%] [/size]

[mambocowboy]

I read a good bit of this thread and I have to chuckle...
 
 I find only certain kinds of men constantly scream about Feminism. While Feminism has damaged our ability to have relationships with traditional rolls, it means the rolls need to be redefined, which many men are resistant too.


 In America, I generally do not have a problem dating, attracting women, etc, etc.


 My problem is because I am over 40 and Americans being more sensitive to age than even Western Europeans means the majority of women in my dating pool is over 35. A majority of them have kids from previous relationships...


 This makes them unacceptable in my book, especially at their age, its too much of a compromise in my book.


 I started looking at my options but I already had interest in dating/marrying a woman not from America. I am still in contact (Friends) with a woman from Germany I originally met back in 1995.


 Its just economics prevented me from taking advantage until recently. Mostly because I didn't prioritize until now (well 2007).

A Thomas, I was in your position too when I started this process at age 40. We have this taboo in our country about older men and younger women. Even though I'm well preserved and look younger than my age, now 42, I found that in Latin America my age was attractive to the women because I was "more mature and experienced." 

[benjio]

A Thomas, I was in your position too when I started this process at age 40. We have this taboo in our country about older men and younger women. Even though I'm well preserved and look younger than my age, now 42, I found that in Latin America my age was attractive to the women because I was "more mature and experienced."

Agreed. I've found that at 32, my age actually works against me sometimes. When I've tried to pursue women within 3-5 years of my age (the majority of them older than I am), I've gotten a few, "you're immature...a man as young as you doesn't know what you want" and "I don't think you're ready to settle down." Unfortunately I find I have very little in common with most of the 18-25 year olds that show interest in me. I think if I were 10 years older it would be more of an advantage than a crutch in Latin America. Of course, I've also accepted the fact that the older women might just be making excuses and in reality want nothing to do with my ugly ass. LOL!!!!   You know how Latinas love to spare your feelings. 

[fathertime]

Agreed. I've found that at 32, my age actually works against me sometimes. When I've tried to pursue women within 3-5 years of my age (the majority of them older than I am), I've gotten a few, "you're immature...a man as young as you doesn't know what you want" and "I don't think you're ready to settle down." Unfortunately I find I have very little in common with most of the 18-25 year olds that show interest in me. I think if I were 10 years older it would be more of an advantage than a crutch in Latin America. Of course, I've also accepted the fact that the older women might just be making excuses and in reality want nothing to do with my ugly ass. LOL!!!!   You know how Latinas love to spare your feelings. 

well if ladies are telling you that you are immature or not ready to settle down, you really need to take a look at specifically what they are saying and why....maybe you can pinpoint the reasons and see if they are correct, or if it is just a misconception...if it is a misconception then you can somehow adjust and give off a more genuine vibe that parallels the maturity you feel you have...i imagine their fear would be that they would be used as strictly a notch  on a younger man's belt.


Fathertime! 


Fathertime! 

[benjio]

well if ladies are telling you that you are immature or not ready to settle down, you really need to take a look at specifically what they are saying and why....maybe you can pinpoint the reasons and see if they are correct, or if it is just a misconception...if it is a misconception then you can somehow adjust and give off a more genuine vibe that parallels the maturity you feel you have...i imagine their fear would be that they would be used as strictly a notch  on a younger man's belt.


Fathertime! 


Fathertime!

When a woman tells any man something like that (if he gives a damn) I think it will result in some self-reflection as it did with me. But I'm 32, college educated, I own a house (outright...no house note...only taxes), I have a very successful career in addition to my own business and several business ventures I'm involved in. I've traveled the world. I try my hardest not to lie to women unless it's to avoid conflict (which is still very rare as I don't place myself in those types of situations). When dating a woman, even if it's not serious, I will give it an opportunity before hopping to the next (if the feeling is mutual of course). I don't pressure women to have sex with me. I don't giggle much or act like a child...I'm actually a pretty serious person. I don't drink often anymore. I very rarely go out to clubs or bars unless it's a special occasion or I'm no vacation. I don't surround myself with younger men. Most of my closest friends are older than me.
 
So after I thought about all of that I was convinced these women were telling me this because of three reasons from least likely to most likely:
 
 

• They had built the misconception in their minds that regardless of my accomplishments, attitude and personality, that most 32 year old men were not mature enough to maintain a serious relationship.

 

• Being older than me, they were insecure about dating a younger man as they felt I may have been more likely to cheat on them with a younger woman in the long run (all too common in Latin America so I definitely can't blame them).

 

• They were not genuinely interested in anything more than friendship with me and this was their way of letting me down easy. As I'm sure you know it is very rare that a Colombiana will outright tell you she's not attracted to you, not interested in being more than friends, etc. They will usually just flake out or make up an excuse.

The last reason was confirmed even more recently because I'm actually still friends with a woman from Bogota I had a date with that told me I couldn't be serious about getting married at my age (I was 30 at the time). Although 34 years old, she is now engaged to a 31 year old Colombiano. And I know what you guys are thinking, but this girl is hotter than all hell and damnation, educated and doesn't have children. Given, the Colombiano is freaking loaded and can provide a much better lifestyle for her than I can right now. Before Dennis died he tried to hook me up with a girl he knew from a past acquintance. She never even met me in person and told me I was too immature, and she was 27!!! Tal vez para algunas, la palabra inmadura se puede significar demasiado joven! 
 
I'm still willing to admit it's a possibility though. Maybe they see something I don't. Either way, I don't agree.

[V_Man]

A_Thom I really like the way you have thought that through for yourself. Excellent. You should do well.
Please don't make the mistake of thinking that others have not thought through their own experiences and reached their own conclusions.


Benjio - likewise also very insightful.


Both of have made great posts. Thanks.

[Zon]

We speak in generalities here out of necessity. 


1, It is best to be suspicious when you meet new people.  It is best to be measured and allow people to earn your trust - and vica versa. This is ESPECIALLY true with people that are in difficult economic conditions.   This is ESPECIALLY true with women seeking marriage to a foreigner.  Remember the dynamics of "situational ethics."


2, Of course a man should know himself (as much as is possible).  This is ESPECIALLY true of men going to a different country, often times without a good command of language.  HOWEVER!  A man should be comfortable in his self knowledge - at least in order to be firm and confident with a woman and in his affairs generally.  There is little place in the hearts of traditional women seeking a capable man for a "man-woman"  a second guessing gender neutral man   or a overly willing to please and accommodate type of man.

[A_Thomas]

A_Thom I really like the way you have thought that through for yourself. Excellent. You should do well.
Please don't make the mistake of thinking that others have not thought through their own experiences and reached their own conclusions.


Benjio - likewise also very insightful.


Both of have made great posts. Thanks.

 I don't make that mistake I always listen to others who have blazed the path ahead of me. No need to reinvent the wheel...
 
 I don't see my age being a problem (42, look 25 or so). I'm looking 28-32 and will consider anything younger than 28 as long as its legal. If the issue is that at 32 you're not mature enough, then trend younger. There some mature for their age women under 25 and I have plenty in common with them, though I don't really do the Pop Culture thing very much, I do know who people are. I've also been a DJ since 1986, done clubs in Hollywood and the whole bit. In other words chances are we listen to the same English music.


 In any case, that means increasing the size of the pool of available women the easiest way possible. The Siberian girl I had been talking too a few years ago was 26 at the time and I was 38.


 What some men may be running into is; Women projecting the behavior of local men onto you. So what she's really saying is the local men she dated where immature and happen to me about 30.


 I wouldn't let her get away with that and to be honest putting up that sort of resistance would have me say NEXT! This is not the scarcity model, there plenty of women to choose from.