Trip to meet a Brasileira....

[JamesDonut]

First off, I have really enjoyed the other trip reports and posts of other PL members.  They are always interesting and you can learn a whole lot from the knowledge and experience from others.  So I decided I would give back to the PL community and report on my upcoming trip to Kristiansand, Norway.  Yes you read right, Norway.  I met a wonderful and beautiful Brazilian lady 38, who currently resides there.   We met on the internet and have talked daily on Skype for about 2 months now.  We have really hit it off and I am looking forward to taking the next big step in our relationship.

The trip will last 9 days from Nov. 29 - Dec 8.  I'll be flying out of Orlando at 2:30pm with short stops in Newark Liberty and Oslo, arriving the next day in Kristiansand, Norway at 10:05 am.  The total travel time is 13 hours and 30 minutes.  Kristiansand is the 5th largest city in Norway on the southern tip.  It is more of a tourist destination in the summer time hence a few attractions and places won't be open.  But I am still excited since a huge part of my lineage is from Norway.  In any case, Norway is one of the last places I would have ever imagined to be traveling to meet someone, much less a Brazilian. 

So I imagine you are wondering how she ended up in Brazil.  Long story short she has 2 kids from a former relationship with a Norwegian.  She is very talented and speaks several languages. Portuguese, Italian and Spanish Fluently.  Also Norwegian and English to a high level.  We have no problems communicating since I am fluent in Spanish and understand Portuguese at a good level.  Weirdly enough I prefer to use Spanish to communicate especially when it comes to relationships.  Also from what I have seen she is very attractive and takes really good care of herself.  Sometimes pictures and cameras can lie, but I am fairly confident since we have seen each other daily on Skype.

I have to say I am very attracted to her and she seems to have a lot of qualities that I look for in future partner.  At the same time, I am trying to look at things objectively and will be asking lots of questions and observing how she acts and reacts in different situations.  In short I will be looking for some red flags.  As the day of the trip draws closer I am starting to feel excited but a bit nervous at the same time.  A bit nervous because talking on the internet and meeting in person are two different things.  This is because chemistry is only partially present with online communications.  In the very least it will be a vacation in a place I have never visited before.

Feel free to comment and share your opinions on my trip and narration.  After all, that's what this forum is for.  I'll try to be as open and detailed in my posts so others can enjoy and learn from my experiences.  More to come.....

[whitey]

Hey Mr. Donut ... I think I know exactly how you're feeling, having gone through it myself 4 years ago.  My wife and I exchanged emails, chatted on MSN, Facebooked, and Skyped for 9 months before I went to Colombia to meet her in person.


Contrary to what many believe, IF a person is honest, you can get to know them very well online ... maybe even better (or at least more quickly) since every moment you spend with that person online is about communication ... not just, for example, watching tv together.


I was a little concerned that we wouldn't have the same chemistry in person as we seemed to have online, but that was put to rest about 2 seconds after we met.  When we first set eyes on each other, we kissed, hugged, and never looked back.  She was exactly the same person I had gotten to know online ... but even better ...


Hopefully you'll have a good experience too ... best of luck ... Whitey

[V_Man]

It sounds to me like you have a good attitude. In that you, hope for the best but accept it may just be a trip to somewhere you have never been - which is not a bad thing anyway. I took the same attitude to heart and it worked really well for me.

My experience was the same as Whitey's. I had the same attitude as you and she also didn't know what would really happen. I'm not sure it even took 2 seconds. We first laid eyes on each other, we kissed, we hugged and never looked back. She was exactly as she appeared to be online except even better. She has said the same about me.
There are a thousand dishonest people out there. But there are some absolute gems as well.

[vikingo]

James, congratulations, sounds like you have found an interesting woman.
I assume she is separated from her local husband and she is working in Norway to  support herself and he is helping to support the kids. Now there is a strong possibility that he is very attached to his children, does not want them to leave the country and your bride would need his signature (by international law) to take her children out of the country and leave with you and the kids for Florida. Or had you planned to obtain a Norwegian visa to live and work in Norway? Will she leave the children behind? I hope not.

[V_Man]

Oh! I missed the part about her having 2 kids in Norway. Yes I see he wrote that now. I agree with Vikingo. In fact my view is far stronger than his. I think you are completely wasting your time - unless you are going to move to Norway until the children are adults with thier own lives and homes. If she says she will leave the children behind I would not believe her anyway. The only exception would be if she was a widow.

The other thing, is that Norway is a very feminist country and she has been living there for a long time. Are you sure that is what you want?

I hope you have considered all these things but so many guys do not.

[JamesDonut]

Thanks for the responses and the input.  Yes I have thought about and considered the part about the kids and where I might have to live.  I'm taking a lets see the whole picture and not make any rash decisions approach.  As stated before at least I'm taking a vacation to somewhere I've never been before.  My great-grandmother came to the USA from Norway, so it's part of my family heritage.  My grandmother (her daughter) is still alive, so even if things don' t work out i'll have a nice Christmas gift from Norway for her. 

So to fill you guys in, she is not married to the Father of the kids, that's the good news.  Bad news is the only reason she is in Norway is because of the Kids and the Dad at this point doesn't want to sign the papers so the kids can get their Brazilian passports.  She has already said she won't leave the kids behind, especially since the Dad doesn't care much about the kids and their Norwegian grandmother takes care of them when it is the Dad's turn.  From what I gather he could care less.  So at least it seems up to this point she is being honest with me. 

The other thing, is that Norway is a very feminist country and she has been living there for a long time. Are you sure that is what you want?

MMM i'm not sure what you mean by feminist country.  I know from my 2 years living in Europe it is more liberal for sure.    But from what I've seen so far, she is not a feminist nut.     As far as living in Norway, I'm open minded but its not my first choice.  It will also be my first time visiting there. 

more to come....

[V_Man]

-snip-

  Bad news is the only reason she is in Norway is because of the Kids and the Dad at this point doesn't want to sign the papers so the kids can get their Brazilian passports.
...the Dad doesn't care much about the kids and their Norwegian grandmother takes care of them when it is the Dad's turn.  From what I gather he could care less. ...

-snip-

You seem to have the right attitude to me and I wish you luck.


These women always say the same thing about the father. The contradiction is obvious in what she has told you.


It is quite obvious he wants his children. It is also clear that the only thing preventing her from destroying his relationship with his children is that he wont permit them to leave Norway with Brazilian passports.


She will do the same to the next guy as well.


So go an enjoy yourself. I think you have the right attitude. Just keep a more balanced view of the reality with the kids.

[JamesDonut]

 V_man thanks for the sincerity of your post.    I don't believe that she wants to destroy his relationship with the children.  Although I'd say it's definitely not outside the realm of possibility, and I'm glad you pointed it out as it's a different perspective worthy of consideration.  It's also true females almost always say similar things.  My view is this, some truly want the best for their kids, when others simply want the ex-boyfriend or husband to suffer despite the kids. (My ex is definitely the latter.) The trick is figuring out if she is #1 or #2.  Also no doubt there are a lot of deadbeat dickhead dads out there as well. I'll keep my radar up and ask a lot of questions for sure.  This looks like the make or break point with this chica.   

More to come...

[JamesDonut]

Just an update this trip has sucked big-time. Long and short she is really just after money. I'll explain in detail when I return.  This

[beulah]

That is a tough break Donut? Do you think that you missed some signals before you made the effort to visit her, or was she so smooth that she just didn't give you anything to worry about?

[V_Man]

That sucks James. I am also curious if with 20/20 hindsight you can think of any red flags or singals before you went. Some women are just very smooth. I hope you got out an enjoyed Norway anyway.

[JamesDonut]

Forgive some of the mistakes in this post I am doing it by voice recognition on my mobile phone

Hey guys thanks for the replies.  This really sucks because I made a big sacrifice to come all the way to Norway to see this lady if you can call her that.  Since I have time to burn I'm going to go ahead and give you some details about how the trip started.  I had a hectic time getting here because my first flight from Orlando to New York ,  departed late.  to be honest I was not impressed with united airlInes, which was the first leg of my trip.  Scandinavian Airlines got me to Norway and they were a great airline
 
So  cutting to the chase I made it to my destination on time.  I got off the plane and she was waiting with her friend to pick me up.  It was really a lukewarm reception and she gave me the common Brazilian hug and kiss on the cheek, nothing special.  I didn't pay much attention to it because her friend was with her.  so I waited till we had some alone time.  so when we had a chance,  walk through the small town of Kristiabsand, it was nice and and the people very friendly .  however I was not expecting the bomb that was about to be dropped on me.  she basically told me that she didn't like me so I was like okay why did you invite me in the first place.  she didn't have an answer except to say she didn't feel anything in that it wasn't the same as when we were on Skype.  I then asked her is this something that you started just to feel now will before I arrived here in Norway she basically wouldn't answer.  I then asked her why did you invite me here if you weren't sure if you wanted a relationship?  she simply said I'm not ready for relationship.  I should've known because she was very nysterious at times and didn't return my compliments on Skype.  I called her out on it many times and she simply said I want something real and in person so when you get here I will open up to you.  To put it lightly I was confused and pissed, when my fears were realized in person.  She then said however that she wanted to be friends still and maybe something to be possible in the future .  this added further to my confusion, because she had already rejected me. Why would she want to continue to see if we could have a relationship if the rejection already came. the answer was soon to come.

Later that evening she started to explain to me her difficult financial situation was with the kids.  She then asked zero dollar question can you give me money to help me out with one of these bills. I call it Visio dollar question because I'm going to give it zero dollars.  Now I was just floored beyond belief how Could this chick reject me and ask for money all in one swoop.  I  told her, you were not interested in me were you? You just want my money?  response was a true friend always gives.  That's the biggest load of crap I've heard my whole life.  It was very clear she did not really want a relationship all she was looking for was a money train. 

Now I like to mention some red flags that did come up, Before the trip.  She did start asking for specific things for me to bring with me because she said that things were less expensive in the US than here in Norway.  I had awarded but my plane tickets and it was only a week and a half before I was going to leave so I decided well I've asked for vacation, I might as well go for it.   to be perfectly honest it's a big lack of respect to ask for things from somebody if you've never even met them.  My attitude was man can't you just be patient enough so I can actually bring you a gift that I picked out for you. 

No use crying over spilled milk now, big lesson learned.  another thing that I did notice on Skype that she wasn't all 100% into it.  again like I said earlier show her response was I need to see somebody in person I thought that sounds reasonable but my gut feeling was that she was not telling the truth.  I should've gone with my gut it was 100% right the red flags were there and I got screwed but not in the way I wanted to get screwed.  . at least I've got to see Norway and meet the people and learn about the culture here. 

 I have one last thing to say, as some of the veterans have pointed out on this forum before if you see a red flag it is very wise to heed them.

[robert angel]

In the very least it will be a vacation in a place I have never visited before.

Feel free to comment and share your opinions on my trip and narration.

Wow JD,

Don't feel too bad--it's happened to a lot of guys. At least you didn't crumble like a cookie, you had that attitude that at least it'd be a vacation to someplace new if nothing else and now you can say you've been somewhere your ancestors came from.


We talk here about how when you take a beautiful woman and move her to a land where her beauty REALLY stands out, that it's bound to change her--she probably has a wider variety of 'choices' where she lives now. I think it would have probably played out the same if you met her in her native surroundings, it just would've taken longer. She doesn't sound like a real slick player--a player yes, but she showed her hand early on...
 

It's a bummer but it could've been a lot worse, I guess. Once again, finding a good one--even after you're pretty sure she's a 'good one' already, takes, time, time and more time and I think we should be seeing them in their home environment, amongst their family, friends and  that seeing them when they're stresssed out and angry can only help you to get to know them better overall and maybe see what kind of 'red flags' really stand out.
 
I kind of harp on 'time, time', but I realize many women will not wait. You have to 'get on the plane' not too soon, but not too late, as they probably are still on various websites like most guys are, so the 'fishing lines' are still in the water. As you close this chapter, I think that things will work out eventually for you. Any interest in the Philippines?

[JamesDonut]

yeah I'm trying.  I got some free meals and some good conversation grin people here.  The people here speak great English.

[InnocentVixen]

Donut, I am sorry things didn't go as you expected but from my point of view, you got pretty lucky. She was honest with you and didn't pretend there was an attraction when there wasn't any, she shamelessly asked you for gifts before you even went there so it is no shock she asked you for money, if anything it's a surprise she didn't ask you before your trip there, but perhaps she never expected for you to show up this fast or at all.


The "lukewarm reception" I don't see as a red flag at all, if you were expecting a fiery latina that would throw herself into your arms just keep in mind we are not all like that, specially when meeting for the first time... sure some might be like that if they have that kind of personality and are very excited after exchanging emails and video chats for a long time and there for know you well enough, but if that is not the case then they are experienced players trying to get you excited so you can put those pink glasses on and happily hand her your wallet.


This might sound harsh, but that woman didn't reply to your questions because she was trying not to offend you any further, she felt no chemistry. By what you mention of your skype chats with her there was never any chemistry, there is a chance you sounded nice enough that she was hoping that would change in person, though it is extremely unthoughtful of her to have this approach with someone from so far away.


If I had to guess, the reason of her contradictory actions it is simply that she was honest with you at first (by rejecting you) but then realized that she was wasting a chance to get some money out of the situation, so then she tries to get your hopes up by saying that maybe in the future you could be more than friends, but as for now you should be a "good friend" and pay her bills.


Seems like you are the kind of man a lot of women are looking for out there, someone that will show up, not a player, willing to make the extra effort for that one lady without expecting at least a dozen of back-up plans on a silver platter, you just need to learn to recognize a woman worthy of that kind of attention, no matter how attractive she is or that she says she wants a real relationship in person, if she likes you, she might not declare her undying love for you before meeting but she will certainly show interest and will not mind letting you know that she finds you attractive or things she likes about your personality, when you tell her you plan on going there to meet her she will get excited and start asking if there is any specific sightseeing you would like to do or food to try instead of giving you a list of things to bring her.

[V_Man]

That's a bummer Donut.
Donut, please remember that hindsight is always 20/20 and things that seem obvious now may have fooled many people.
Personally I think it is possible to build up some chemistry online. It happened to me. However it is impossible to quantify this and everyone is very different. Nothing really counts until you both physically meet, anyway.

This woman does appear to have a lack of empathy towards men.

[Bob_S]

I'm with IV, and I think you got lucky and dodged a bullet.  If your lady friend were the least bit clever, she could have played you then dumped you.  But in the end, you just had an interesting vacation.

[beulah]

Thanks JD for posted such details.  Not everything is meant to be.  Let this experience assist you in the future.

[Brainiac]

The very nature of long distance relationships (LDR's) means that a yellow or red flag is more serious than in a typical local relationship. Additionally, an LDR can seduce you into thinking things will be different when you're together.

[Brazilophile]

Thanks for sharing your experience on your trip, James.  Despite the pain you must feel, I am sure that when you put it into perspective later, you will see what can be learned.  Your next trips will yield much more positive results.

[JamesDonut]

So this is my last day in Norway.  I'll be so happy to get back and put this behind me completely.  I've been reading and enjoying the responses, even laughing at times.  You guys are right, I dodged a bullet and it could have been much worse.  This girl has no respect for men, and believes that it is a man's duty to give money when she needs it, just because.  I had the chance to chat with her and she admitted to me that she "never had any intention of finding a man for love.  She wanted someone to solve the problems with her kids'"  Those were her exact words.  I've lost any sympathy and affection for her.  I'm glad she showed her hand early. To top it off now, she is asking me  for the money her friend spent at the airport for parking.  I'm like, you decided to come to the airport and park.  I think this pretty much tells it all about her. 

That wraps it up. There really is nothing else to say.  Thanks again for your feedback and no nonsense responses.  Especially V-man, you were right on it from the beginning.  I'm thinking about Jaime's agency now.

[mambocowboy]

I did WOVO and had success in that I am happily married. However, stories like this highlight the risk. When you're thousands of miles away on skype or MSN the lady can spin things any way she wants, and its alot harder (though not impossible) to figure out who she is...

[V_Man]

James I want to thank you on behalf of many readers here. I am sure there are plenty of men that go through similar episodes but they lack the balls to write about it on here. By sharing experiences, guys can be so much better informed.


Of course, that is cold comfort for you. On the other hand I imagine that Norway is a very interesting place to visit. So just think of it as a trip to visit another country.


I think you can also take some credit for keeping your wits about you in all this. You picked up on certain clues and you let her know things were not as you expected. That put her into a position which meant she let the cat out of bag. So you dogded a bullet, but I don't believe that she could have played you for long because right from when you stepped off the plane you were zeroing in on the issue.


Latinas are not world famous for hiding their feelings.


So give yourself some credit.


I can see that this has not changed your attitude to women or Brazillians so that is good.


My personal advice is to stay away from single mothers. This is risky and complicated enough without adding more people into the equation.


I did WOVO so it worked fantastically for me but as mambo says it carries a huge amount of risk. I'm not surprised you are considering an agency.


If you can speak a little Portuguese now, perhaps consider Bazil. You obviously like the look of them. 

[JamesDonut]

I'm finally back at home and it has been a great learning experience.  And since I am finally on a PC again, I thought I might as well respond to some of your repiles individually on this thread. 

The "lukewarm reception" I don't see as a red flag at all, if you were expecting a fiery latina that would throw herself into your arms just keep in mind we are not all like that, specially when meeting for the first time...

....she likes you, she might not declare her undying love for you before meeting but she will certainly show interest and will not mind letting you know that she finds you attractive or things she likes about your personality, when you tell her you plan on going there to meet her she will get excited and start asking if there is any specific sightseeing you would like to do or food to try instead of giving you a list of things to bring her.

Point well taken.  However it seems I didn't convey my message well enough here.  I wasn't expecting a fiery latina either.  But the reception was just a "normal" run of the mill greeting.  No hint of happiness or excitement that I had just arrived.  It was like ok he's here.  Maybe I'm off base but if someone I was looking forward to meeting came to visit me, I'd wouldn't be fiery per se, but I would be fairly excited about the prospect.  And amen on that last part.  I should have paid attenton to that.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience on your trip, James.  Despite the pain you must feel, I am sure that when you put it into perspective later, you will see what can be learned.  Your next trips will yield much more positive results.

Thanks Brazil, I now have a different perspective on things for sure.  The challenge I'm going to have is not letting this experience drive me to be too cynical in the future.

James I want to thank you on behalf of many readers here. I am sure there are plenty of men that go through similar episodes but they lack the balls to write about it on here. By sharing experiences, guys can be so much better informed.


Of course, that is cold comfort for you....  I think you can also take some credit for keeping your wits about you in all this. You picked up on certain clues and you let her know things were not as you expected. That put her into a position which meant she let the cat out of bag. So you dogded a bullet, but I don't believe that she could have played you for long because right from when you stepped off the plane you were zeroing in on the issue.


Latinas are not world famous for hiding their feelings.

So give yourself some credit......

....My personal advice is to stay away from single mothers. This is risky and complicated enough without adding more people into the equation.

Thanks V, I wasn't as emotinally invested as I could have been, we hadn't been talking for more than a couple months.  So yeah its not much of a comfort but I hope it serves others on this board.  And yeah, I already had my doubts and reservations before I stepped on the plane.  Next time that happens, I'll know not to step on that plane. 

As far as single mothers go, I'm going to be much more careful in the future.  I don't need a load of problems dumped on me, while the mother expects the man to solve all her problems for her.  I don't mind the fact someone has kids, it just seems like single mothers have more baggage and lame stories about ex's than others.

[fathertime]

Thanks V, I wasn't as emotinally invested as I could have been, we hadn't been talking for more than a couple months.  So yeah its not much of a comfort but I hope it serves others on this board.  And yeah, I already had my doubts and reservations before I stepped on the plane.  Next time that happens, I'll know not to step on that plane. 

As far as single mothers go, I'm going to be much more careful in the future.  I don't need a load of problems dumped on me, while the mother expects the man to solve all her problems for her.  I don't mind the fact someone has kids, it just seems like single mothers have more baggage and lame stories about ex's than others.

well james, i don't think it is abnormal to have reservations and doubts before you see a woman in person when you are moving quickly...i don't know if you should let a certain amount of doubt determine whether you take the trip or not...if so, then you will have to slow down quite a bit, maybe communicate over a long period of time before making the trip...for me, i would have rather just make the trip and get a view from on the ground for better or worse...at least in colombia you can create a backup plan rather quickly but in norway that probably wasn't the case. 


single mothers...i wouldn't write them off completely either..not ideal, but it is best to keep an open mind...things happen..some of those ladies are very decent people and would probably make superb wives for the right man!


Fathertime!