What to look for BEFORE the marriage & how to keep the marriage going afterwards

[robert angel]

 Seems there's some interest in this topic and maybe some of the guys who've been married a while might pitch in, try and explain what works and what doesn't work when married to someone from overseas. As usual, anyone's welcome to pipe in and it'll probably veer and weave every which way off thread, if it gets going. It sort of started on the Latin Forum side, so I'll keep it here.
 
I think that what makes a marriage work long term is based to a large degree on a lot of preliminary things, hopefully on determinations--findings that should be made BEFORE you actually get married and that's what I'll focus on first.
 
Sometimes, what makes it work or not work out is about what you did or didn't do---BEFORE and AFTER the marriage.


Against an oft repeated rule here on P-L that: "Thou should not begin pursuing another woman until the divorce is legal and final", (still good advice in general), I did it differently. After my first marriage of 14 years was irretrievably broken and we'd separated, I'd already established a complete new household for my sons and I and was introduced by a Filipina friend from Vermont to my now current wife. It was an on-line relationship for almost 4 years. In fact, I made trips to her country w/o actually meeting her, before we realized "Hey--why not us?".
 

So after four years of 'friendship' during which time it eventually evolved into 'courtship', we married and it's going on seven years now and is twice as good as the first marriage. The second go round, I got to know her, her family, friends, her educational level, her career and much more, VERY well. I felt burned from my first marriage and I was determined to be as certain as possible that my second wife was different.
 
That said, it shouldn't have taken me four years--almost no good woman will wait that long. But regardless of it's a first or second time, decide what characteristics are REALLY important to you in a woman and take the time to see if she 'has what it takes'. Chances are that they won't be things you can learn from reading her profile.


As follows explains things I ignored before my first marriage took place and how my ignorance came back to bite me very hard.

When I met the lady who later became my first wife, she had already been in the USA for a few years and had become quite 'Americanized' and enamored of all things material. Other than me, she didn't seem to have much to do with 'people'--no real friends or family in the picture. She didn't want to talk much about 'life back home', just mostly about me. I didn't mind that-- after all, she was ALL about me and I was being treated like a king.
 
OK, it might be great now, but ask yourself: "Honestly--is this sustainable LONG term??"

The combination we had going, guys and gals, typically spells T-R-O-U-B-L-E down the line. Too make the odds even worse, she had experienced a horrific childhood in her native country, was deserted by her parents as an infant and was in and out of orphanages or shuttled between relatives. A terrible childhood almost always leaves scars. It may sound cold, but I wouldn't recommend marrying someone because you feel sorry for them in any big way.
 
I look back now and see how if I was late and didn't call, or made an excuse to do something else than be with her, she was showing signs of 'fear of abandonment'--like post traumatic stress syndrome.
 
Pick a woman with a good disposition who seems stable, well adjusted and multifacted.Some guys here think that taking a gal and 'molding' her into their ideal of 'wife' and/or 'mother' material is the way to go. I don't buy into that very much. I think she has to show those as being strong characteristics within her, based on her having grown up and seen them in action, learning by examples from a young age on.

Looking back now, I can see it in such a '20-20 vision' way, but then I wasn't looking for 'red flags'--I was living by the minute and most of them by far seemed pretty damn good. In many instances, the best honeymoon is BEFORE the marriage. Look for the red flags early on and don't get blinded by her beauty or by her spoiling you to the point where you don't see 'other' things.
 
My best friend refused to be 'Best Man' at the wedding, because he saw issues I chose to ignore or dismiss. Let your friends and especially your family, get to know her in depth and listen to what they say. No, don't let ALL your friends make up your mind for you--some will not be responsive to a 'foreign bride' no matter what, but listen to the wisest and most open minded and trusted people you know.

Don't move TOO fast. I didn't know her even a year before we actually bought a home together. Shortly thereafter, we married. I had ignored the problems related to her childhood--(lack of family values, lack of various social experiences, materialism), but the real kicker was when I found out later on that she married me in part to avoid deportation--she'd over stayed her work visa. Amazingly, I only found that out after we already had two kids together.

The first time around, I thought I was at an age where I needed to 'settle down', have kids and all that, but in retrospect, I was not only NOT ready, but I went way too fast once I got into that regrettable mind set.

There is no specific 'right' age where a guy HAS to get married, but there is a time when you are or aren't mature enough. Take the time to learn if it really is 'right' and then only if it is, follow through.

Many guys are smitten on the interesting cultural differences, her exotic looks and how sweet a woman is and are really blinded to other things that are actually quite important, such as: 'How does she handle arguments? Does she get over them quickly or seem to carry a grudge? My first wife wouldn't let things go for MONTHS.  My wife now is usually warm and huggy the next day, or after 48 hours tops, after a big 'blow out' issue. Huge difference there, and her having four brothers while growing up helped that dynamic, I'm sure. Does she let stressful things agitate her too much, too quickly? Was her family life and childhood development rather 'normal' or dysfunctional? Does she have and maintain long term friendships?
 
I know some guys love having a high spirited, even volatile woman and there are plenty of that sort in Latin America, but is that what you want for the rest of your life?  But do you REALLY want to be a lion tamer, or would you rather have a more domestic kind of cat? To each their own, I say.

If you don't know the answers to these things before you marry someone, I assure you WILL come to know the answers later on.

My first wife was different than most women I had dated. She already had a nice place of her own, a shiny red Mustang convertible and she really doted on me, actually spoiling me. I wasn't really needy, poor or wanting for anything, but it was different than what I was used to--namely where the male pays for everything in a relationship with an American woman, as if that's his complete obligation and the woman can and often does 'dismiss' him as if nothing mattered.


Even my Mom was impressed with her when as a gift, she put new tires on my car 'to keep me safe' for example, but before the wedding, none of my family had met her and my friends were lukewarm on her. I didn't (or wouldn't) see any ulterior motives to concern me. She was cute as heck and tall and thin like a model to boot. I was using my balls more than my brains, along with a distorted idea of what was really best for me. I had a good job, a swank apartment where I could watch ships from all over the world come and go, I could walk to all the best night clubs and restaurants and was living the proverbial "Life of Riley" but it wasn't enough--I foolishly felt I need to morph into a new lifestyle--that it was 'time'.  I sometime wonder why I just didn't slow down a bit and enjoy all that for 5 or 10 more years, even if the 'dating pool' had gotten really shallow locally.
 
But I convinced myself that I was tired of being the 'wild and crazy' bachelor guy and thought that to save me, my liver and brain cells, that settling down and playing house with this sexy, seemingly sweet Asian nurse was 'just the ticket'. I have sung this sad story before here, so I'm not going into ALL the details all over again.

So OK, I explained mistakes made early on and how if I'd been wiser and not in such a hurry, I'd probably have avoided all together what became a train wreck. I explained what characteristics I should have been looking much more closely for. My wife now has those sort of characteristics and THAT has made all the difference in the world.
 
For those of you not asleep by now or otherwise bored witless, I'll quit now and try and attempt to figure out how to explain in my next post how despite me making some mistakes in my current marriage, things have actually worked out pretty good SO far, BUT I'd do some things differently if I could turn back the clock.
 
Oh--and I'll finally try and explain how we try and keep things going long, long after the honeymoon's over....

[Zon]

Nice post.  Thoughtful topic, and one of those that is not easy to put one's arms around. 

What are your motivations to get married, as a man?
- lonely
- horny
- wanting children for legacy / meaning of life
- all your friends are married.
- status increase from getting a pretty woman to go with the new car.

Another hard question ...

How selfish are you as a man? 
There is the type of giving that seems to be rewarding (if a man has the capacity of such things - some don't).  Then, there is the type of giving that feels like throwing good money after bad.

[fathertime]

Seems there's some interest in this topic and maybe some of the guys who've been married a while might pitch in, try and explain what works and what doesn't work when married to someone from overseas. As usual, anyone's welcome to pipe in and it'll probably veer and weave every which way off thread, if it gets going. It sort of started on the Latin Forum side, so I'll keep it here.
 
 

For me, a critical thing is to just absolutely stay the course.  90% of the time that is simple because things are going well, but that other 10% could be a deal-breaker for many.  When there has been a major disagreement (and there has been several), I've got it locked into my mind that their is no easy way out and that the issue just has to be worked out between us.  There is no bonified 'plan b' or other option to go back to Colombia or anywhere else.  This is my wife and we are going to work it out no matter what.  That is my attitude, and with the help of that attitude we have overcome many a disagreement, some major.  In my opinion it takes that type of determination (which doesn't translate into words on a website), to keep a marriage together and strong.  I think the onus of having that attitude is on the man.  When a man has that attitude the woman normally falls in line as she can see she has a determined warrior backing her up regardless. 


I sometimes question if others (mostly singles) can have that attitude based on their massive time abroad among the ladies and what they have written, but they can make an adjustment in attitude just others have done, if they choose to. 


There is much more to say, but this is a good start.


Fathertime!   

[mambocowboy]

For me, a critical thing is to just absolutely stay the course.  90% of the time that is simple because things are going well, but that other 10% could be a deal-breaker for many.  When there has been a major disagreement (and there has been several), I've got it locked into my mind that their is no easy way out and that the issue just has to be worked out between us.  There is no bonified 'plan b' or other option to go back to Colombia or anywhere else.  This is my wife and we are going to work it out no matter what.  That is my attitude, and with the help of that attitude we have overcome many a disagreement, some major.  In my opinion it takes that type of determination (which doesn't translate into words on a website), to keep a marriage together and strong.  I think the onus of having that attitude is on the man.  When a man has that attitude the woman normally falls in line as she can see she has a determined warrior backing her up regardless. 


I sometimes question if others (mostly singles) can have that attitude based on their massive time abroad among the ladies and what they have written, but they can make an adjustment in attitude just others have done, if they choose to. 


There is much more to say, but this is a good start.


Fathertime!   

I agree, and, as Robert Angel pointed out, it sure makes it easier if she doesn't hold grudges. Thank goodness  my wife doesn't hold grudges. She gets over disappointment, anger, frustration, faster than anyone I know...

[robert angel]

 
You guys are so right about the importance of not holding a grudge is very  important. If you can't 'get over' something, it's going to continually be an obstacle, even if she just occasionally brings it up later on as a 'bargaining chip' or just to irritatingly remind you. My wife gets over stuff quickly, but it's not like she forgets. Pretty much the only time she'll bring up something bad we've been thru in the past is when we--or "I" to be more honest, are/am sliding back in that direction.
 
 
 It's also a great comment about working things out BETWEEN the two of you--no third parties.
 
 
 I can't be sure if the 'we' was put in there by FT with great intention (bet it was) but this: "my wife and WE are going to work it out no matter what" is pure platinum. RESOLVE it between the both of you together! Never mind Vegas, what happens at home stays at home!
 
 
 I am soooo glad that unlike most Filipinas, my wife never airs out our 'dirty laundry' in public--not even with her closest Filipina friends. She's too sharp to get into that, but she has a way around it. When they're all 'dishing and digging' for dirt and pissing and moaning about their husbands, she might volunteer something like "Oh--Rob ALWAYS goes to those stupid gun shows", or "I have to clean up after him too much--I wish he was more organized and after all these years of my asking, would finally move his 'toys' and collections out of the garage and just clean it up". So she gives them a few silly crumbs to feed their rabid desire--their essential diet of 'poop on people'."
 
 
 If she did give them 'the real skinny'-- the truly juicy dirt, I am positive it would get out and be magnified, spread like wildfire all over town and she knows it. There are a few women (nice term for them, considering what and how they really are) in our city, who are very well known for knowing everything bad and juicy about everyone who's let it out or had it 'found out', purposefully or not. They know about the love affairs, police records, where the kids go to school, if they get good grades, have already lost their virginity, drink or drug and a lot more. I think they pump their own kids to dig up dirt. It's sickening and they use it as a type of power source.
 
 
 I am sure it's not special to any individual culture--gossips are everywhere and they're always trying to top each other with a more juicy detail. Keep your wife as far away from them as you can, if she doesn't do it herself.
 
 
 When people don't have dirt on you and then they get some, it's too delicious for them to keep it to themselves, sadly. My wife has said a number of times that there are times she wishes she could let off some steam about problems we've had, but she 'respects me too much'.
 
It's great to have a circle of friends, but ours is pretty small. We have a lot of 'acquaintances' and I guess we'd say we're 'friends' with most of them, but our real circle's pretty small. We have fun--a lot of laughs with them, sometimes travel together and if one of us moves or needs a helping hand, we're there for each other.
 
A small circle of friends is manageable, but if you consider that you have dozens of friends, I think you're likely to have a few conspiracies going--people talking behind your back and so on. Then it's hard to determine the source. A girl friend I had that I let slip away (this gal was a heiress to a large fortune but had a lot of common sense) used to tell me: "Never have more very close friends than you have fingers on one hand".  Pretty good advice, I think.
 
 
 Not having trusted friend confidants to share with them, is hard for my wife, because she has no family here and really doesn't want to burden her family overseas, especially because her mom has heart disease already and my wife never wants to upset her. Then again, I think you should pretty much keep your family's from getting in the middle of most of your problems anyway--too often they end up taking sides and that doesn't help unity or to resolve issues.
 
 
 Now if my ex wife wasn’t miserable--she'd feel miserable about it. I think some people get a sick sort of fulfillment out of having some seething animosity that's on going. She has to carry that hot rock of animosity in her stomach around and sadly she's not aging well, has health issues and I think her grudge holding is part of the reason why.
 
 
 Zoon’s piece on motivations and selfishness are aces too. If you're motivated on planning on marrying someone to 'complete you', chances are you are missing some pretty important parts of the puzzle of your own life, pieces that no marriage will likely fix. A good woman can add quality to your lives and 'compliment' you
 
I like the line the line in the rock band 'The Who',s song "Getting in Tune" that says: 'And like one and one don't make two, one and one makes one"--- and I'm looking for that free ride for me, I'm looking for YOU".
 
I didn't do the reflections and soul searching the first time--I was pretty cavalier, basically running into things, thinking along the lines of 'Looks good to me--feels pretty good too' and not digging below the surface for the land mines that were really waiting down the line for me anyways.
 
 
 Some say that marrying a younger woman who's rather attractive is in and of itself a 'land mine' down the road, especially as she sees the huge emphasis on beauty, artificially enhanced beauty, youth and materialism in the USA.
 
 
 Some say that keeping up with a younger wife physically and satisfying her may be problems down the road. I've heard Filipinas themselves say that if you don't keep a young wife satisfied physically, it's just a matter of time before she starts having affairs to get that 'satisfaction' behind your back. I've seen it happen, especially if a guy gets physically disabled. Sometimes the woman will still take care of the guy, other times she becomes such a slut that he or his family and friends find out and send her packing. Hopefully keeping 'in tune' and in shape with your woman will take care of that. If there are such issues down the line that don't work themselves out--thank goodness there's always the pharmaceutical avenue!
 
 
 Sometimes I think about and wonder if I might want to 'tweak' things a bit in how I am more dominant in our relationship.
 
 "How much of her culture's 'old style' macho ways do you incorporate, or should you incorporate to help make the marriage work?".  One of my wife's best friends, for example, has a husband that forbids her from wearing shorts outside the house.. He doesn’t let her wear her hair short and she dresses really frumpy, almost along the lines of the late, great comedian, Carol Burnette.
 
 
 What do you guys think about adopting rules and ways from the 'old country' or applying rules and standards that most American women, outside the Mormon and Amish communities, would never accept?
 
 
 My wife was brought up to ask her husband 'if' it's OK for her to go anywhere outside the house and that works great for us here” She never makes stupid decisions about where sho goes, but sometimes I think I should say: Honey, I need your help around the house, I want you to stay home”.
 
 
 
She wife dresses stylishly but not in a ‘suggestive way’ and she almost always asks me if what she's wearing is 'OK' with me. Her family would all but kill her if she got a tattoo. But she's taking classes at college and I am wondering if I ought to crack down on the 'dress code' that many husbands of Filipinas try and enforce. She goes to work, packs a change of clothes, changes there and goes to class.
 
 
 A couple times, my she's come home from class, having worn her contact lenses instead of eye glasses, wearing fairly short shorts, (nothing over the top--or bottom, for that matter) wearing a fairly tight Hollister T shirt, smelling sweetly of Dolce & Gabbana  ‘Light’Blue' and I've thought "hmmm--she looks GOOD--maybe TOO good!". Anyway, lately it's food for thought on my plate and I've already started to address that....
 
So do you guys ‘adopt’ certain ways from the old country she came from in her new country and do you ask her to adhere to other ‘rules’ that most American women would laugh in your face if you asked them to?
 

 

[Zon]

This is my wife and we are going to work it out no matter what.  That is my attitude, and with the help of that attitude we have overcome many a disagreement, some major.  In my opinion it takes that type of determination (which doesn't translate into words on a website), to keep a marriage together and strong.  I think the onus of having that attitude is on the man.  When a man has that attitude the woman normally falls in line as she can see she has a determined warrior backing her up regardless. 

Very good.  Nothing pussywhipped in that attitude. no second guessing.  Not every day can be nice and sunny.

I sometimes question if others (mostly singles) can have that attitude based on their massive time abroad among the ladies and what they have written, but they can make an adjustment in attitude just others have done, if they choose to. 

Well, the underlying point is how deep and sober of a commitment did the man make.  For men that have not lived in places like Colombia, Phills, Ukraine ... being abroad is like a trip to a toy store.  That can either become a habit, or you find a new balance to life - albeit, with tons of 9's and 10's walking around. 


I think that's why it is best for men to get it out of their system (some can never get it out of their system).

[V_Man]

For me, a critical thing is to just absolutely stay the course.  90% of the time that is simple because things are going well, but that other 10% could be a deal-breaker for many.  When there has been a major disagreement (and there has been several), I've got it locked into my mind that their is no easy way out and that the issue just has to be worked out between us.  There is no bonified 'plan b' or other option to go back to Colombia or anywhere else.  This is my wife and we are going to work it out no matter what.  That is my attitude, and with the help of that attitude we have overcome many a disagreement, some major.  In my opinion it takes that type of determination (which doesn't translate into words on a website), to keep a marriage together and strong.  I think the onus of having that attitude is on the man.  When a man has that attitude the woman normally falls in line as she can see she has a determined warrior backing her up regardless. 


--snip--

Fathertime!

I agree that this is critical. I disagree that the onus is on the man. Probably the majority of Western woman lack this degree of comittment. It doesn't matter how determined the man to try and work things out, if the wife doesn't have the same attitude.
If you mean, that it is up to the older man to set this tone in the relationship, given his greater experience and composure, then you have a good point. This is the case in my situation.


Personally I have made it crystal clear that we both need this level of comittment to our relationship. In addition I have taken note of how she responds to that concept and how she acts on it.


I really think that a great deal of problems arise [eventually] due to a real comittment by both people to exactly what FT has raised here.

[mambocowboy]

You guys are so right about the importance of not holding a grudge is very  important. If you can't 'get over' something, it's going to continually be an obstacle, even if she just occasionally brings it up later on as a 'bargaining chip' or just to irritatingly remind you. My wife gets over stuff quickly, but it's not like she forgets. Pretty much the only time she'll bring up something bad we've been thru in the past is when we--or "I" to be more honest, are/am sliding back in that direction.
 
 
 It's also a great comment about working things out BETWEEN the two of you--no third parties.
 
 
 I can't be sure if the 'we' was put in there by FT with great intention (bet it was) but this: "my wife and WE are going to work it out no matter what" is pure platinum. RESOLVE it between the both of you together! Never mind Vegas, what happens at home stays at home!
 
 
 I am soooo glad that unlike most Filipinas, my wife never airs out our 'dirty laundry' in public--not even with her closest Filipina friends. She's too sharp to get into that, but she has a way around it. When they're all 'dishing and digging' for dirt and pissing and moaning about their husbands, she might volunteer something like "Oh--Rob ALWAYS goes to those stupid gun shows", or "I have to clean up after him too much--I wish he was more organized and after all these years of my asking, would finally move his 'toys' and collections out of the garage and just clean it up". So she gives them a few silly crumbs to feed their rabid desire--their essential diet of 'poop on people'."
 
 
 If she did give them 'the real skinny'-- the truly juicy dirt, I am positive it would get out and be magnified, spread like wildfire all over town and she knows it. There are a few women (nice term for them, considering what and how they really are) in our city, who are very well known for knowing everything bad and juicy about everyone who's let it out or had it 'found out', purposefully or not. They know about the love affairs, police records, where the kids go to school, if they get good grades, have already lost their virginity, drink or drug and a lot more. I think they pump their own kids to dig up dirt. It's sickening and they use it as a type of power source.
 
 
 I am sure it's not special to any individual culture--gossips are everywhere and they're always trying to top each other with a more juicy detail. Keep your wife as far away from them as you can, if she doesn't do it herself.
 
 
 When people don't have dirt on you and then they get some, it's too delicious for them to keep it to themselves, sadly. My wife has said a number of times that there are times she wishes she could let off some steam about problems we've had, but she 'respects me too much'.
 
It's great to have a circle of friends, but ours is pretty small. We have a lot of 'acquaintances' and I guess we'd say we're 'friends' with most of them, but our real circle's pretty small. We have fun--a lot of laughs with them, sometimes travel together and if one of us moves or needs a helping hand, we're there for each other.
 
A small circle of friends is manageable, but if you consider that you have dozens of friends, I think you're likely to have a few conspiracies going--people talking behind your back and so on. Then it's hard to determine the source. A girl friend I had that I let slip away (this gal was a heiress to a large fortune but had a lot of common sense) used to tell me: "Never have more very close friends than you have fingers on one hand".  Pretty good advice, I think.
 
 
 Not having trusted friend confidants to share with them, is hard for my wife, because she has no family here and really doesn't want to burden her family overseas, especially because her mom has heart disease already and my wife never wants to upset her. Then again, I think you should pretty much keep your family's from getting in the middle of most of your problems anyway--too often they end up taking sides and that doesn't help unity or to resolve issues.
 
 
 Now if my ex wife wasn’t miserable--she'd feel miserable about it. I think some people get a sick sort of fulfillment out of having some seething animosity that's on going. She has to carry that hot rock of animosity in her stomach around and sadly she's not aging well, has health issues and I think her grudge holding is part of the reason why.
 
 
 Zoon’s piece on motivations and selfishness are aces too. If you're motivated on planning on marrying someone to 'complete you', chances are you are missing some pretty important parts of the puzzle of your own life, pieces that no marriage will likely fix. A good woman can add quality to your lives and 'compliment' you
 
I like the line the line in the rock band 'The Who',s song "Getting in Tune" that says: 'And like one and one don't make two, one and one makes one"--- and I'm looking for that free ride for me, I'm looking for YOU".
 
I didn't do the reflections and soul searching the first time--I was pretty cavalier, basically running into things, thinking along the lines of 'Looks good to me--feels pretty good too' and not digging below the surface for the land mines that were really waiting down the line for me anyways.
 
 
 Some say that marrying a younger woman who's rather attractive is in and of itself a 'land mine' down the road, especially as she sees the huge emphasis on beauty, artificially enhanced beauty, youth and materialism in the USA.
 
 
 Some say that keeping up with a younger wife physically and satisfying her may be problems down the road. I've heard Filipinas themselves say that if you don't keep a young wife satisfied physically, it's just a matter of time before she starts having affairs to get that 'satisfaction' behind your back. I've seen it happen, especially if a guy gets physically disabled. Sometimes the woman will still take care of the guy, other times she becomes such a slut that he or his family and friends find out and send her packing. Hopefully keeping 'in tune' and in shape with your woman will take care of that. If there are such issues down the line that don't work themselves out--thank goodness there's always the pharmaceutical avenue!
 
 
 Sometimes I think about and wonder if I might want to 'tweak' things a bit in how I am more dominant in our relationship.
 
 "How much of her culture's 'old style' macho ways do you incorporate, or should you incorporate to help make the marriage work?".  One of my wife's best friends, for example, has a husband that forbids her from wearing shorts outside the house.. He doesn’t let her wear her hair short and she dresses really frumpy, almost along the lines of the late, great comedian, Carol Burnette.
 
 
 What do you guys think about adopting rules and ways from the 'old country' or applying rules and standards that most American women, outside the Mormon and Amish communities, would never accept?
 
 
 My wife was brought up to ask her husband 'if' it's OK for her to go anywhere outside the house and that works great for us here” She never makes stupid decisions about where sho goes, but sometimes I think I should say: Honey, I need your help around the house, I want you to stay home”.
 
 
 
She wife dresses stylishly but not in a ‘suggestive way’ and she almost always asks me if what she's wearing is 'OK' with me. Her family would all but kill her if she got a tattoo. But she's taking classes at college and I am wondering if I ought to crack down on the 'dress code' that many husbands of Filipinas try and enforce. She goes to work, packs a change of clothes, changes there and goes to class.
 
 
 A couple times, my she's come home from class, having worn her contact lenses instead of eye glasses, wearing fairly short shorts, (nothing over the top--or bottom, for that matter) wearing a fairly tight Hollister T shirt, smelling sweetly of Dolce & Gabbana  ‘Light’Blue' and I've thought "hmmm--she looks GOOD--maybe TOO good!". Anyway, lately it's food for thought on my plate and I've already started to address that....
 
So do you guys ‘adopt’ certain ways from the old country she came from in her new country and do you ask her to adhere to other ‘rules’ that most American women would laugh in your face if you asked them to?
 

 

Yes I do ask her to do things I know a gringa wouldn't accept. Like when I was looking for an English tutor to teach her in our apartment while I'm at work, I told her women tutors only and she had no problem with that. She has a set of expectations about how a man should behave based on her upbringing in Colombia. She wants a man who is decisive and I oblige....

[fathertime]

I agree that this is critical. I disagree that the onus is on the man. Probably the majority of Western woman lack this degree of comittment. It doesn't matter how determined the man to try and work things out, if the wife doesn't have the same attitude.
If you mean, that it is up to the older man to set this tone in the relationship, given his greater experience and composure, then you have a good point. This is the case in my situation.


Personally I have made it crystal clear that we both need this level of comittment to our relationship. In addition I have taken note of how she responds to that concept and how she acts on it.


I really think that a great deal of problems arise [eventually] due to a real comittment by both people to exactly what FT has raised here.

Well vman my attitude is that it is my responsibility, first and foremost…because that is something I can control.  I handle the being very determined part and permit my wife to follow my lead.  I follow her lead in other areas.    My feeling is if the man shows his complete determination to work through issues and keep the marriage alive and thriving, the wife picks up on it, and follows suit, so ultimately both spouses are doing their part.    I don’t subscribe to lecturing and talking about determination when I can lead by example.   I think a wife feels much more secure, safe, and happy, when she knows the husband isn’t going to fly off or emotionally detach  because of a disagreement.  I view emotional detachment as a ploy to set up for blaming the other spouse for a problem and it is the first step down a dark path in terms of marriage sustainability
   
Obviously if you are talking about a flighty woman, that maybe never respected the husband to begin with, well then who the hell cares, that type of woman can go away and it would be a favor to the husband, at least that is how I view it. 
 
All the talk about ‘getting over things’ and releasing inter-marital grudges is also a very good point.   I have been able to train myself to being a very fast forgetter when I want to be, and I think that is a positive trait to have when it comes to disagreements and things said in the heat of the moment between spouses. 
Fathertime!

[benjio]

Great posts gentlemen and I really appreciate everyone sharing thier viewpoints.
 
My goal has always been to find true compatibility and commitment. I believe in love and I also believe in rare cases a man and a woman can be completely in love their entire lives. But I'm also realistic in the sense that although I know one should strive for this, no one can expect a marriage to automatically be this way based on the intensity of emotions at the start of a relationship. This is something I realized after years and years of speaking with dozens of married couples that had been together for decades and didn't plan on ever splitting up. At some levels the feeling of being in love never goes away. Most couples that have been married for a long time tell me they have fallen in love with their spouses many different times during their marriages and in many different ways. But that "honeymoon" stage of intense passion and infatuation that most relationships begin with is almost always a temporary period. IMHO, over long periods of time, most marriages become devoted friendships and business partnerships more than romantic relationships. It's a man and a woman that not only love each other, but have also made up their minds to work together to accomplish mutual goals that will ultimately make life more fulfilling and happy for them both. My motivation to get married has nothing to do with having a beautiful, Latina girl on my arm to show off. It's not to have someone to have awesome sex with all the time. It's not to have children either. Those are three things I could do very easily without ever getting married. My motivation is having a true best friend I can share everything with. A woman that wants the same things from life that I do. Someone that can be a true life partner that will stick with me through thick and thin so I'm not wrestling with this complicated thing called reality all by myself.
 
What I've found in Colombia is a plethora of women that would absolutely love to get married to a gringo; but there's always something that doesn't sit right with me or factors I can't control that have prevented me from finding the one. I'll admit, I've only been serious about 3 women in Colombia, but I've dated dozens. Whether or not a gringo wants to admit it, the constraints of money and time usually play a huge factor in how they go about searching for a potential mate in Latin America. When a man has the opportunity to be there as much as I do, dating becomes more of a natural process. Most normal men in the United States don't budget for dating when they finally decide to settle down, set aside a time period for searching for someone, and date as many women as possible within that time period to increase their odds of finding a compatible mate. However, this is exactly what most gringos do when they decide to start searching for a wife SOTB. This process obviously works for many men, but it is rife with the potential to make huge mistakes as well. Without spending significant time with a woman before marrying her, one leaves themselves open to all kinds of surprises that are impossible to predict without that time.
 
When I meet someone I like in Colombia for example, usually I can go on five or six more dates with them over the course of a couple of weeks. Even when I have to return to the states, we usually won't go more than a month or two without seeing each other again. So I'm not in a rush to take the chance of making a huge commitment like many other gringos with less time. I can get to know a woman, her friends and her family. The person she TRULY is pass the façade we all put up initially when we meet someone we are romantically interested in. Foreign dating through agencies or internet dating sites is within itself an unusual process. Arranged marriages are much more common in this world than marriages through international dating agencies, and even the thought of that is inconceivable for most Americans. I'm not saying one way or the other works and produces more successful marriages. I'm just saying that given the choice, I think a lot of gringos that got married to women from another country relatively quickly probably would have taken more time if they had been able (especially when everything ends badly!). This is what I'm doing. It's not a lack of a willingness to commit and take the plunge. Anytime a girl really impresses me and I think we could have something serious together I stop everything and give her my full attention. But I'm careful about who I get emotionally attached to as many women in Latin America are not what they seem.
 
Perhaps I'm too picky and I'll admit that, but I know myself. And I know in the long run, there are personality types and certain habits I absolutely couldn't put up with for the rest of my life, no matter how much I loved a woman. With Colombian Women, for the most part, it has been irrational behavior that usually sends me packing. I don't have patience for it. I understand a woman can be a little difficult during her time of the month, while pregnant, or even when she's going through menopause. But not being able to control herself, saying hurtful things, being physicially abusive, throwing fits, extreme joy followed by extreme depression and vice versa, not taking responsibility for her actions when she's done something wrong. These are types of behavior I've never been able to tolerate. I love Latinas and I understand they are very emotional. I've been dating them all my life. But there are limits to everything. A good friend once told me I'm a magnet for psychotic women, and perhaps that's true; but I'll never marry one. When I've met women in Colombia that were emotionally stable, it's always been something else. Timing is a huge issue when dating no matter what country you're doing it in. You can meet the perfect woman but if the times not right, things may not work out. My ex from Barranquilla was a great girl! Beautiful, Intelligent, Honest and someone that was constantly trying to improve upon themselves in one way or another. I really wanted to marry her. But because of the stage of life she was in, it wasn't a possibility and I didn't have the patience to wait any longer.
 
I haven't given up hope on Colombia and I'm also meeting a lot of very nice women in Brazil. The difference between the two is HUGE, but I could see myself being happy with either. Within the upcoming months I'll be spending a lot of time working in Peru and Ecuador so maybe there's possibilities for me in those places as well. The most important thing with me is finding someone I'm sure I can spend the rest of my life with. Not taking the risk that I can learn to live with someone that I don't think is highly compatible with me. I come from a family where divorced is looked upon as the 8th deadly sin and I share that sentiment. Marriage is a lifetime commitment and for me divorce isn't even an option. There's usually a random question about divorce I'll ask women while out on a date. There have been moments I've been plesantly surprised when a few of them have looked me dead in the eyes and said, "Divorce? I'm never getting divorced...don't believe in it!" Of course...then there was the timing issue again.... 

[Jeff S]

Just remember that love isn't something you find or fall into - it's something you do. Do it and you'll feel it. Hang around hoping to feel it first and you'll have a long wait.

[whitey]

Good topic and lots of great posts ... will try to jot a few things down sometime soon.  Not that I'm any kind of expert yet ... we're still more or less newlyweds ...

[mambocowboy]

re: this whole "getting to know each other thing..." yes, you need to get to know each other, but you just can't be sure how a woman will react to living apart from family and friends, leaving her job/career, leaving all she is familiar with, UNTIL SHE'S ACTUALLY HERE LIVING WITH YOU FOR THE FIRST TIME. It's a helluva risk on her part, even bigger than ours, in my opinion...My Barranquillera wife had never traveled further than Cartagena before her medicals for the K1 in Bogota, knew practically no English, and had never lived away from home...Now that I'm 41 and married for the first time, when I think back on how cautious I was about getting married (in my thirties), it's laughable compared to the risk I took in marrying a woman from a foreign country. For me, it was no risk no reward. I simply aged/matured to the point where I knew what I wanted and the risk was no longer as intimidating and I was able to pull the trigger....

[robert angel]

It might sound hard nosed, but I think we should give some thought about establishing  'rules' BEFORE we marry a woman and begin living together---assuming that waiting to live together long term pretty much applies to 'after marriage' in your case.
 
One might consider thinking about and discussing beforehand what rules you want to live by as 'man and wife' after it's all legal and binding, rather than basically 'going with the flow' after she lands here and you get married pretty fast, like we pretty much did.
 
In my case, I was and actually still am, pretty liberal about things, especially compared to  the way guys are in my wife's home country, both before and after they wed. I'll bet that being a bit more openminded or 'liberal' if you will, than the guys 'back home' is an appealing characteristc to a lot of foreign women who marry Kanos.
 
Expressed or not, they most likely want and expect their husband to be 'assertive' at times as well--no woman that's halfway normal wants a wimpy husband. It's finding the right balance that's the trick. I didn't give a lot of thought to establishing 'house rules' beforehand, but it wouldn't have hurt for me to do so. I don't hit--or as many Pinoys (male Filipinos) would say 'spank' my wife, not even occasionally. Been tempted to in a controlled manner a couple times, but nah, I've never hit a woman, period. Seeing how  I never hit my first wife after all we went through, I certainly don't see myself changing anytime soon.
 
I don't get verbally or physically abused either, nor do I find myself having to criticize our housekeeping, cut short her spending or dictate what she wears everyday. She's a grown up, exercises moderation, has good taste and usually solicits my opinion on what to wear, but I could possibly see myself getting more assertive in the area of clothing once in a while. I recently mildly criticized her for wearing some clothes that were a bit too 'summer casual' to her college class and she replied "YOU bought those for me--you picked them out, Honey!"--but she got my point and is toning it down a bit.
 
She's a good listener and outside of when she gets real excited or thinks she's 'on a roll' and that she's reading my mind and anticipating what I'm going to say (which she's actually pretty good at) I rarely have to tell her in a strong way to "Be quiet, just LISTEN and let me finish!!" But when I do, she really does quiet down and listen until I'm finished.
 
The kicker is, if you don't set the rules, or if you prefer to call them: 'guidelines' together as a couple early on in a marriage, and this can pertain to the limits of civil conversation, religious practices, money matters, sex, child raising and much more, you may have a harder time drawing the lines later on, especially if she takes a considerable liking to the new, more liberal 'American woman lifestyle' and you've let it slide too far down the slippery slope.
 
My wife likes to joke and we get some good laughs out of it, when she occasionally proposes something and I say 'NO' to it. She will bat her eye lashes and with a little smile, jokingly say: Don't forget--I'm an American Citizen now--You know I'm a real American Beeeetchhh, hahaha!".
 
I'll jokingly reply--"Yea--and maybe I ought to send you back to the province for a couple months--that'd do you wonders--or maybe I should just put you over my knee and afterwards explain why I had to--just like your Dad used to do!" Then, she'll reply: "Oh--PLEASE hit me--but be SURE to leave bruises for me to show the police!" We laugh--it actually diffuses tension, but the bottom line is she knows that's actually within her rights here--she's seen divorces, guys forcibly removed from their houses, arrested, husbands who've lost their jobs for spousal battery, the personal property and child custody disputes, all quite unlike anything she's seen 'back home'.
 
So unless you live in a cave, she's going to be exposed to that via the media and quite possibly by what's happened between some people you both know. Fortunately, we look at such stuff and basically think--"that's them, not us' and we don't think that way, but if things took a really bad turn, she'd be aware that she has options here--options that she'd never had dreamed of 'back home' before landing here, in 'The land of opportunity'..
 
Hopefully you and the Missus will already pretty much be of the same mindset, but are there some things, roles and rules you think you should establish before you say "I do"?
 
Things aren't 'out of hand' in our household, but if I was doing it all over again, I'd do it a bit differently in certain ways and areas. I am not a real big spender, but for one thing, I'd probably spend less on unneccesary gifts. Sending stuff overseas that really helps her family means a great deal to her and to her family and a little goes a long way there. That's one thing I actually enjoy and I'll still do, but maybe I should've listened more to a couple wise Filipinas who warned me: Don't spoil HER TOO much!"

[Researcher]

What to look for before marrying a foreign babe? Answer: Planet-Love.com.  Read, rinse, repeat....

[Zon]

I think that when you are young, and never married, no kids, etc... it is normal and easy to wear rose colored glasses.   Take the roll of the dice. Most of here are trying to 1) get more in one way, or another and 2) calling a "do-over."   

The question of marriage to me parallels the questions / pursuit of life design: where do I want to live.  what style of life to I want for my self ( wife family) - morals, ethics, values.   It is true that MOST LIKELY whatever unique attraction that exists between a couple in the beginning will fad over time.  There will be good years and bad years.   Thus, looking at a person on the inside is very very important.

But, it is almost impossible to know a person adequately in this manner, in these situations
- age gaps force more than usual change and growth between the man and woman
- culture and upbringing create a unique form a baggage.
- transition of moving to a new culture
- adequate time

I can see myself finding an true "equal" in Russia / Eastern Europe.  I guess that such a woman likely would be older, more educated, more firm than the best Latina I could find.   I guess that such a woman would be more demanding and ambitious too (not in over the top ways, but there would be less "coasting" in life.)  I guess that a Latina would be more tender and an easier follower.   I guess I would have much greater control and flexibility in the long run with a Latina too. Those are pretty compelling points when you look at the question of marriage less with your heart and more with your brain.

For us calling "do-overs" I think it probably is best to go with the "odds"
- which woman / scenario gives you the most of what you NEED
- which woman / scenario gives you the most of what you WANT

It is helpful perhaps to remind ourselves that there are nights that even Brad Pitt is not excited to be with his wife. 

[robert angel]

I think that most guys who've been married a while--for at least a year or two, would admit that they make love less often than they did right before, or at the very start of their marriage. In this modern era, they probably even made love a lot more before they were married--giving things one helluva a 'trial run'.
 
I am sure there are guys who'll say (brag) otherwise, but next to how big and how many fish a guy says he caught, this is something that any 'statistics' a guy gives here or elsewhere have to be taken with a proverbial grain of salt.
 
There's just something about the chase, the conquest, the first looks at her in a simple cotton dress or in a form fitting pair of jeans--the newness of it all, that just really stokes the fires. Those first kisses, the first cuddling and hand holding, probably caused what one frequent poster here marvelously called an 'electraboner' reaction--LOL.
 
On a K1 visa--probably even on a spousal Visa too--the waiting, the anticipation of when she FINALLY gets over here and THEN she doesn't have the papers to work and is pretty much a homebody, that pretty much insures that when hubbie gets home, the 'homefires' will be ready to burn. I remember when she first got off the plane here in the USA and it was definitely an "ooh la la" moment that I'll forever remember!
 
In my case, I need to occasionally remind myself that if we let our marriage fail, the  chances of me EVER getting another woman as level headed and sexy (in the best way) are somewhere between nil and none. I remember when some fifth grade kid at the school my wife worked at, a streetwise kid who's hormones where wayyyy older than his years, said incredulously" "Mr._____, SHE's your wife??" I Replied" "Yes, Jackson, she is my wife." He replied, "Mr.____, YOU are one very LUCKYYYY, LUCKYYYY, man!".
 
Smart ass kid was 100% right on that count!
 
Nonetheless, some folks might go so far as to say the best way to cool down a red hot love life is to GET married--to make that lovely lady your 'wife'!
 
Once a set of 'normalcy' sets in, with one or both partners settling into jobs or other routines or when you're not enjoying the time in her country--which was probably work free, going to fun places, hotels--sort of play land, reality finally sets in. You might be more tired, less 'fired up'--there might be kids to deal with--all sorts of things, distractions and pressures.
 
Sad to say, but when you can have sex just about every night, it can easily become not as big a deal as when you only had a few weeks to squeeze that in, or day or night here or there. It gets too easy to 'take it for granted'. When my wife went overseas for an extended period without me, when she got back, she said several times how it was like a honeymoon all over again!
 
Ever notice how when you make a great meal and enjoy it and then put the perfectly good left overs in the fridge, that afterwards you often don't ever get to them before they have to be tossed out?
 
Sometimes when what's on the plate that's in front of you--or what's in your bed, seems all too familiar, complacency can set in and things can get stale.
 
Not to say you ought to go out and find a tasty new dish--chances are all the ingredients are right under your roof--but together, maybe you're not getting the recipe right. I've mentioned here before what the late movie star and heart throb Paul Newman said when asked how he resisted the temptations of countless sexy women he could've 'bedded' and instead remained faithful to his wife for over five decades--his reply?:
 
"Why go out for a hamburger when you've got steak at home?".
 
I don't think the guy ever had herpes or anything similar!
 
In our marriage, we try and add some additional 'spice' to our bed room life at home, to keep things 'fresh', discussing ALL kinds of things and digging deeper into each other's psyches to keep the sparks hot.
 
We've made it more of a priority to not watch a movie or TV, do homework, play on-line etc,  until we're all but falling asleep to avoid getting to the point where we just turn off the lights and fall fast asleep in a few minutes. We set aside time to talk, to do ALL kinds of things. Sometimes it means not getting asleep until really late, but it's quality, one on one time.
 
My wife likes me to sometimes tell her stories, especially about all the crazy things I did as a kid, family stories--stuff  that makes her laugh. Laughter is very important in our marriage and I think it's something we should all give some thought to--I have to remind myself of that. I  see how when she's talking to her family or girlfriends, there's a lot more laughter, compared to many of our 'conversations' and it gives me pause. 
 
But really with the 'lights out' time in bed we set aside, we talk about almost anything and it usually leads to something or somewhere good, even if it ends up saying prayers and cuddling til we do fall asleep-- or to something more erotic. You never know....
 
Still, when we're on vacation, that's when things really get extra good, at least for us. There's nothing like a nice hotel room in an exciting city in another state, to get our romantic notions really going. We'd like to visit all 50 states and a good number of nations, with romance in mind and we've sort of created a 'bucket list' of things and places pertaining to our love life that we're working on. This past summer, we covered 8 states and overall, we're getting closer each year.
 
I won't go into great detail, but for us, our 'bucket list' doesn't include making love in a commercial jet liner (the mile high club--those tiny restrooms are too damn small!) but we use our imaginations pretty good and I bet some readers out there can use their's pretty good too.
 
So it doesn't have be all downhill in terms of love life after marriage. You can find new skills, new 'techniques' and other things that can increase satisfaction. You can try to bring a different approach, to hopefully create or maintain an overall very satisfactory experience.
 
I'm not saying we have anything like some 'ultimate' love life--sometimes we even get to talking and ask ourselves 'Uh--when was the last time--it's been a while hasn't it?"--but at least we're 'working it' and not writing it off.
 
If you ignore it, let things remain the same or get stale, you might have problems down the line. Guys and gals are different mentally, so it's probably best to discuss things along this line together, (don't just whip out handcuffs, guys!)  but at the same time, almost everyone loves surprises to an extent--so find what balance works for you!
 
So whattaya say guys?

[Ray]

So whattaya say guys?

 
I say... I don't really care what you and your wife are doing in your bedroom.
 
 
So why do you feel the need to blab it all over the Internet???   
 
 
 
Ray
 
 
 
 

[robert angel]

Ray--I don't think I posted anything graphic or specific--nothing remotely tasteless. Sure you're as entitled to your opinion as anyone else here--you certainly exercise it more than anyone else here and yet you seem to have little room or tolerance for other's opinions. If you have a problem with what somebody posts--well obviously you do then.

[V_Man]

Yes Robert this is a very important subject. The future Mrs Vman and myself have discussed this many times as well. It's very easy to let it creep up on you in a long term relationship until one day you wake up and wonder where all the excitment went.


If Ray doesn't want to read this thread/post, he can tell someone who cares.


For the rest of us these are all things we should definately discuss and remind ourselves.


My novia and I are very much in the pre-marriage/honeymoon stage. So of course sex is one of the highest priorities. We have talked about the need to keep sex a top priority throughout the ups and downs of our relationship. We have talked about how important it is over the long term. We have also talked many times about how to keep things interesting in the bed room (and other places) over the long term. Just you mentioned, it is possible to keep being inventive and spicy.


To be honest this is one of the things that attracted me to latinas in the first place. They are simply naturally passionate. It is like that deep passion is just under the surface all the time.

[Zon]

Yes, the age old question - "how to keep passion in a long lasting relationship?"

That one has defied great minds for many many years.

It seems to be that a very very small percentage of men will run home with roses and a box of chocolates for the same woman within 6 - 12 months (maybe less if we were to be honest). Possible solutions:
- a house full of children (distraction)
- a high paced career / money (distraction)
- a trip to the message parlor (something different than distraction if the sparks come back to the marriage)
- sexual exploration (which can blow up in a guy's face)

Or, just resign yourself to be content knowing you got a much better deal than you deserved in the first place.

[Ray]

Ray--I don't think I posted anything graphic or specific--nothing remotely tasteless. Sure you're as entitled to your opinion as anyone else here--you certainly exercise it more than anyone else here and yet you seem to have little room or tolerance for other's opinions. If you have a problem with what somebody posts--well obviously you do then.

 
If you don't want to hear my opinion, then next time don't ask for it... DUH!
 
 
 
 
 

[fathertime]

Yes, the age old question - "how to keep passion in a long lasting relationship?"

That one has defied great minds for many many years.

It seems to be that a very very small percentage of men will run home with roses and a box of chocolates for the same woman within 6 - 12 months (maybe less if we were to be honest). Possible solutions:
- a house full of children (distraction)
- a high paced career / money (distraction)
- a trip to the message parlor (something different than distraction if the sparks come back to the marriage)
- sexual exploration (which can blow up in a guy's face)

Or, just resign yourself to be content knowing you got a much better deal than you deserved in the first place.

robertangel gave you a very decent playbook for sex within a marriage and you boiled it all down to this crap?  you are going to have to change your attitude or you are just going to be MISERABLE within a marriage.  if you don't have what it takes then it doesn't make sense to even think in terms of marriage, because from what you are writing it is all going to blow up in your face.   Do you still feel like such a sexual dynamo at your age that you require numerous women or you are dissatisfied?  you are going to wind up some washed up 55 year old gringo with an illegitimate child or two that are going to wonder why their old dad is such a flake.




  try to look at the broader picture and maybe you can see the world/marriage in a different less negative way.


Fathertime! 

[Zon]

robertangel gave you a very decent playbook for sex within a marriage and you boiled it all down to this crap?  you are going to have to change your attitude or you are just going to be MISERABLE within a marriage.  if you don't have what it takes then it doesn't make sense to even think in terms of marriage, because from what you are writing it is all going to blow up in your face.   Do you still feel like such a sexual dynamo at your age that you require numerous women or you are dissatisfied? 

Comon!  We have all tried to keep newness (psychical, sexual, passionate) in a relationship that lasted longer than 6 - 24 months.  There is a decline for most men, most of the time.  Women too, I imagine.   Are you suggesting that I am different, shallow, superficial?  I did not "make the rules."  I am just being honest about them. 

As I look among my lifelong peers, regardless if they are on their 1st or 2nd marriage, I see, maybe 15% - 20% that seem like they are in some form of happiness that resembles their first years together.  I see 40% - 60% that are in a partnership of life ... which means they are happy and content, but not passionate and aflame with each other as man and woman.  I see a large number unhappy, and quietly, or not so quietly, wishing things could be another way.  That is what I see. 

I also see people that have have been married for greater than 20 years, and they seem to have created a different kind of togetherness / love ... sort of like "we did this thing called life together."  It has the feel of a retrospective accomplishment.

Listen, I know that it is more important to have a woman that you trust and like as a human being, than only a firecracker in the bed.  That is what my point was/is!   Does this mean that many men have to cope with feelings of physical dissatisfaction within a marriage (perhaps even good ones) at times?  Unless we get very lucky, I think all of us will find that even in the best marriages, there are such phases.   Thus my comment ..."Or, just resign yourself to be content knowing you got a much better deal than you deserved in the first place."

This is not negative, or defeatist IMO.  If you don't want weeds in your garden, you can not simply say, "I don't want weeds in my garden."  You must expect them, and be prepared to manage them.

[fathertime]

This is not negative, or defeatist IMO.  If you don't want weeds in your garden, you can not simply say, "I don't want weeds in my garden."  You must expect them, and be prepared to manage them.

don't worry about a few weeds in the garden...move forward and pick a few each time you reap your harvest. 

Comon!  We have all tried to keep newness (psychical, sexual, passionate) in a relationship that lasted longer than 6 - 24 months.  There is a decline for most men, most of the time.  Women too, I imagine.   Are you suggesting that I am different, shallow, superficial?  I did not "make the rules."  I am just being honest about them. 
 

it doesn't matter that you are being 'honest' about what you think you are witnessing in other people's marriages.  you are not posting any solutions, just posing questionable stats.  i'd say that most men that married a beautiful latina two decades younger than themselves are going to have way different %'s then the ones you created.  you should be concerned about what you are going to do in your own marriage, what happens on a broad scale is not very important, if you take care of yourself and your woman.   


good luck!


Fathertime!