Would like to buy an appartment? can anyone help?

[LatinaHunter56]

Hello,
Its been a long time since I visited this site. I have a question to ask. You have to excuse any typos I make since I am kinda in a hurry.

The other day I was scrolling through the area called renting a condo in latin america and I went into one of threads names "renting a condo in  Rooms for rent in luxury Cali Apartment".

Now if you take a look at that picture its a nice property. right? I would like to buy one of those. I like it just like that. How much would one apparentment cost to buy??

Also how much would a condo or house cost

[Calipro]

The apartment you are talking about is Pete's place and he rents it. I think you could probably buy it for around 200 grand U.S. That would be my best guess.

I bought a real nice one bedroom apartment in the next barrio over from Pete's place for about $53,000 U.S. It's on the 13th floor and the building is on a hill so I have great view of the city. I actually like the building I live in better but it's in a strata five barrio instead of a strata six like Pete's place.

Finding a nice apartment is the easy part. Getting the money into Colombia and doing the proper paper work is the hard part if you don't know what you are doing.

[LatinaHunter56]

Where do I llok for info on buying property in Cali, Medellin and other places (Cali and Medellin is my real interest). How much would one pay on average if he wanted a middle class to upper middle class property?

Thanks

[Houndog]

I'm certianly no Colombian Real Estate expert, however in 2003 I was offered an apartment in Cartegena on Boca Grande, 1/2 block from the Beach, 2 bedroom, parking, security, pool & party room on the roof, AC, Hot Water, Cable, Kitchen,  beatutiful view of the ocean & city for $40.000 USD.
It was an older but very nice building, the building was about 15 stories, and the Apt was on the 8th floor.

[Calipro]

You could always start by looking in the classified adds.

http://elpais-cali.terra.com.co/

[Ken]

Problem there is he needs to know the barrios. I guess middle class would be strata four such as La Merced and upper middle class strata 5 La Flora being example (both in the north end). So for an idea of upper middle class property values check the Sunday El Pais for house prices in La Flora.

[LatinaHunter56]

Thanks for the info so far. If you have any more info on where to find upper middle class to upper class homes in Cali and Medellin please let me know or email me.

Thanks

[Frank Rizzo]

Hi LH,

This is a long post but is really needed for anyone wanting to buy property in colombia...for those not interested ....sorry for the length..

 (long...) (I am not an atty...this is just my experience...get your own atty in colombia..)

calipro is right....i just got a high end place in the north of cali...as far as housing/apto's i really can only help in the north / east...i don't know the south...

To get a deal, you'll want to look daily...expecially on sundays...(just like the states)..

Go to   http://www.elpais.com.co/paisonline/clasificados/index.php

Then look daily..if you want an apto. start, click on the photo of the house, then north/south./east...and you can click peso levels of apto's there.....if you start looking at 250million and up...you'll become familiar with the barrios which are higher end....ie, you'll see la flora, santa monica, etc. in the north, santa rita, terrisita, crystalis in the east (only an example)...if you want something at that price....call yourself on each property...if you want something cheaper...keep moving the price down in the website for el pais....keeping in mind the names of the high end barrios....until your price is in line ...

my spanish is like 80 percent..but i called and negociated my whole deal myself....if your looking high end ..it's easier to be a gringo actually....possibly they realize you have the money to come through...not just play..

calipro is also right...pete's place would go for about 200k USD.....great barrio, etc...

It took me a year to close this last place...I can tell you that buying an apto. there can be similar to a  US experience...(ie. the owner knows what the apto's sell for in the building, the barrio, etc....and they really don't want to nego.)....I spoke to many owners like this....they did not want to budge on the prices....

BUT.....if you have some time...and (i can only speak on higher end places...>500million)....you can find a seller that HAS to sell........and this experience is UNLIKE a typical US purhase......people get in financial trouble and will unload some incredible places cheap.....and as you would expect...as the price goes up in colombia...the potential buyers are dramatically reduced...(no financing = few buyers on expensive places)...

Once you find the place you'll have to find a way to get the money into colombia...this have been brought up as above...(this can be a nightmare....depending on the credit and history of the seller...you may be able to directly wire transfer....possibly not..)...I've got an atty in cali that does only this...if all the paperwork is in order...she can accept large wire transfers and make payment for the house...(this was a scary time for me...but i would be happy to speak in private about my experience with my cali atty....all went well...)...

Additionally, once you find the apto. the paperwork is all looked over...make sure that the name is registered in bogota in the name of the owner correctly...or the owner has the power of atty to sell the place..(people in colombia many times buy a house and never officially register it in bogota.....because it costs....and they just keep the signed notorized papers...)...if this is the case, this can also be overcome...the atty directly contacts the notary in colombia and confirms that the papers are origional...

once that is done.....you will want to register the property in some way...either in your name...or form a colombian corp and put it in the name of the corp...make sure you do it the way you want it the first time...because if not..you'll have to pay the tax again...if you want to switch names....(the atty. will get you a NET...(tax id # )....for the corp...

Sorry for the length of this...it took me a long time to learn all this...LOL...

Then you have to determine what your situation is regarding your visa...if want a full time visa and are investing over 200million pesos..they (the atty) will get you a investment visa....

additionally there is a patrimony (sp?) tax in colombia on total assets...so if you have a car plus, house...and it adds up to XYZ...they do their calculations and tax you...Now....if you pay cash on a higher end place like you were talking about....and you put it in your name in bogota...they will eventually hit you with the patrimony tax......BUT...if your US corp loans your Colombian corp the money for the house....then it is considered and IS a loan and you actually do not hold that as a paid asset...it is a loan from your US company...

The atty will have to make loan papers from your US corp to your colombian corp....You'll want a power of atty so your Colombian atty can sign for your colombian corp....and you will be siging for your US corp...These loan papers MUST be registered with DIAN....

The general filing of possibly form 4 and definately form 11 is also necessary...calipro did this himself and would be of best help here...4 is for the person who takes the money into the country...in my case my atty....and 11 is for you the buyer to make sure you get in....



Then you have your apto...

Some other websites to look at...I've never had luck from these sites...the owners seem to be firm on the pricing ...much, much better luck in the paper on the llink above..

But here they are..

www.fincasdelvalle.com

http://www.artemoybienes.com.co/index.php

www.coniconsulta.com

www.proyectosypropiedades.com

[Gringo Joe]

Does anyone have any information (websites) on buying a house in Barranquilla?

[zapata]

great info Mecca!!  you won't find info like that on the "other" site...

[Frank Rizzo]

Hi LH.....

here's another site..

www.contactovivac.com

I've looked at tons of things in cali and know of several deals there which i did not take...if your interested in the north/east of cali i could pass on some apto's..

I'd like to clear up exactly how to find what you want....it was not so clear above....i was typing late last night...

The way i approached it was...the below checklist

1)  Barrio 5 or 6 ONLY..RESIDENTIAL...(more below)
2)  Elevators
3)  Price the administration (more on that below...very important..but not what you think!!!)
4)  Security (are the guards armed or not)
5)  meters of space (very important to me)
6)  parking spaces (even if you dont want a car..it is for resale)
7)  terraces/ balconys  (actually this is higher on the list for me)
 Pool / jacuzzi / gym etc. for the building
9)  condition of the actual apto. (remodeling is cheap in colombia in comparison to the states...)


ADMINISTRATION...i found that lots of colombians when buying look for the cheapest possible admin.....my experience was this....cheap administration equals a dirty building, no armed guards, pool not working...(but we're fixing it.....LOL..yeah for like the past 3 years..hahaha...true story)...you get the picture..

What I found with the highter admin in my building was armed guards, clean building in and out, attentive help when anything is wrong with the building, clean functioning pool, etc.....and we're not talking an arm and a leg....but my admin. is approx. 30 percent more than the same meters in other buildings i looked at...

Housing in colombia is kinda funny.....what i suggest is on finding your building is....if you ask if it's "residential" area...they will always tell you yes...unless it's directly on sexta.....lol..

So...ask...or much better have someone down there go to the place take the photos and walk around...ask them how far the mall is in blocks, how far the nearest stores are, how much sound there is in the street and in the apto.....ask them to TAKE PHOTOS of everything in the near blocks....that way you know how close everything is...

House vs. apto.....i'm not an expert here....i actually started wanting a house and talked myself out of it.....here's why...

Houses....you get more meters, you get your own pool, you get the back yard.., you can grow a small garden, grow plants, all the great things we have in the states... The BAD: security...i was in the process of buying a house and started thinking.....cali is hot...and at street level..in a house low air movement and it is hotter....for instance...you stand at the street in front of my building and are sweating...go up to the apto.. and it's much cooler...(my friend has a house 4 houses from my apto. building...he has to run his air full time...i hardly every have to run my air in the day and never in the night..)

What got me was ....houses in colombia (in the city) are enclosed with a retaining wall....yes you may have a back yard..but your total meters is usually enclosed with a wall....that wall is like 10 feet...and that's it...i've heard reports..(not confirmed) that robbers have moved from house to house over the walls and did their work.....additionally...no guards so if they get in...no one to call the police till they are gone...this got me..

The apto. takes care of these things...but..to get lots of meters you pay more...or be prepared to just have less meters...

The administration is a wash in compared to a house...because if you are in an apto...pay the admin. and you have the guards, pool care, etc...if you have a house...you have to pay the local guard for the street..and your own pool care...

Nonetheless.....if you like space you can find 600 meters and up in a house for 250 million (itll need some work but that is cheap in colombia)..and usually with your own pool....

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

For Example ONLY:  If you want to buy at say 150 million..(just an example)....obviously you want the best possible place for your money...

Go to the el pais and begin only looking at >250 million....you'll learn barrios, and building names as many times you'll see the building name in the ad also...write them down or just remember them....look at the meters.....look for the key works   GANGA, OJO....sometimes they will write in the ad..theat they MUST sell.....call on those first...even if you may not like the other things about them....

OH...a huge one here....EVERYTHING in colombia is for sale....so also don't forget to look in the "for rent" section and look over 1million pesos....if you see the apto/house you like...call on that one...talk about rent and bring up that you're actually looking to buy.....this works!!! Many people with apto's in the "for rent" section were trying to sell their place a year ago and no one was taking...so they decided to rent...but their motivation is to sell......ASK..!!!

THere is one more step which I experienced in buying...Once you agree on your price..they will aks for a 10 percent deposit.(don't freak out..this is normal).....you sent that money and sign a promise note....they take that 10 percent an get caught up on all the bills...old electric, admin., taxes....they bring those reciepts back to your atty...she confirms that they were paid by the vendors...don't believe any paper work until your atty calls and confirms....

Then you have a green light...you are not walking into past due bills, taxes , etc....

After this is done you will do a 1 day transaction, notary in the atty's office, the atty, the seller and you.....they walk in with the ownership papers sign and leave with a bank draft for the remaining due....it's all in front of the notary and now you're done...

Wow...this was like a trip report...but I wish I could have had a play by play a year ago....there are some other guys which have given me some incredible guidance....Viewpoint...(this guy knows it all and basically set me and my atty straight..)..I don't know Aztec..but he has the same knowledge as Viewpoint......Calipro is here...he's done it.......

Hope this helps someone ....

[zapata]

Mecca or Calipro, or anyone else,

One question,  a person can take a max. of $ 10,000 into Colombia undeclared, but do travelers checks count against this??

Thanks in advance for your response.

[Frank Rizzo]

Hi Z..

From what i've been told..yes....any form of check, cash...etc...but i've never been checked for this...ii mean...a folded check in your back pocket of jeans would probably work...

[zapata]

Well, acutally I'm buying some property at the moment, and the seller wants some of the money cash, so I was hoping I could take $9000 or so in cash, another $ 10,000 or so in travelers checks, and the rest I would withdraw from ATM's.  Unfortunately I can't fold up $10,000 of traveler's checks in my back pocket.  Does anyone know for sure??

Thanks for the response Mecca...

[Montrealer]

Most countries have a limit of how much you can bring in undeclared.  The norm is usually 10K US, but for a guaranteed answer contact the Colombian embassy and ask, it only takes a second.

If you want to bring money in without declaring it, I did it once in Mexico and used an international money order.  Not all banks issue these, and not all banks accept these, so make arrangements and phone calls first to see if it's accepted, otherwise you may still have to wait 3-4 weeks for it to clear.

Or a real trick, put cash in a box, wrap it with wrapping paper, and put it ni your carry on.  Warning, this is illegal and if you get caught you may be in serious trouble.  So do at your own risk.

In all actuality, try to get an investors vise would probably be the easiest.  Call the embassy and fill out the paperwork and wait.  It shouldn't take that long if you can provide the proper documents (?).

[Frank Rizzo]

Good point Z...

That's alot of checks...

Lots of us have had these exact problems...you may want to find one of your friends who is going down and will carry the other 10k in cash for you.......it's amazing how difficult it is to do this........

[Calipro]

Mecca or Calipro, or anyone else,

One question,  a person can take a max. of $ 10,000 into Colombia undeclared, but do travelers checks count against this??

Thanks in advance for your response.

Sure travelers checks count against the $10,000 limit.

[Calipro]

Well, acutally I'm buying some property at the moment, and the seller wants some of the money cash, so I was hoping I could take $9000 or so in cash, another $ 10,000 or so in travelers checks, and the rest I would withdraw from ATM's.  Unfortunately I can't fold up $10,000 of traveler's checks in my back pocket.  Does anyone know for sure??

Thanks for the response Mecca...

I wouldn't give any seller cash unless you really know what the hell you are doing. I don't know if you have a cedula or not but if you don't you won't be able to sign the documents to transfer title. You are going to have to have a colombiano sign or your behalf. Plus the way you are planning on bringing the money into Colombia is going to make it next to imposible to file a form 4 which will cause you a problem if you ever try to take the money back out of the country.

I hope you know what you are doing.

[zapata]

Thanks for the info Calipro!

[Beattledog]

no cash on real estate.  this is not a good sign

beattledog

[zapata]

Calipro and Beetledog,

The cash that is part of the deal is barely 10% of the price of the property.  I have a lawyer that my wife's family has known for years that is handling the deal.  I have a visa and cedula, and I feel comfortable with things.  I just wasn't sure about the traveler's checks.

Thanks for the concern and input, and I'll keep you posted.  I like this site better everyday!

[Frank Rizzo]

calipro is right about the cedula....and signing for the property...but it looks like you have yours.....though your atty. can sign for you or any other colomian for that matter.....not that that really matters, as they are only signing on your behalf...the signer in no way can control the property after the transaction....(colombian formality)...

the cash thing.....the places i've bought there have all wanted the same thing....some cash.....and it's kinda funny..they all wanted the initial 10 percent in cash....just like yours is asking for.....

The cash payment can be worked to your advantage depending on what you want...if you want lower taxes in colombia...the cash payment does not show up on the final transaction....this can lower your taxes..though it is calculated on 60 percent basis of total value...so it's not that bad there...but it can help..

good luck......on your new home.....

[zapata]

Excactly Mecca, my attorney says the same as you, which makes me feel good.

thanks!

[LatinaHunter56]

Hello again,

Just to give people an idea of the kind of property I am looking for here are a few pictures of one of the houses I own here in Engliand thats going up for sale. Its est worth is around £500,000. This is the Eleme house in oxon, it has 34 acres of land and a swimming pool.

Now I am not saying I am looking for something exactly  the same in Cali or Medellin BUT if I can find something similar I would be happy. I speak moderate espanol not a lot. I didn't stay long in Cartegena and I never visited Cali or MEdellin. I was just there for a day

LH56

[Montrealer]

Nice place.

I wish you the best of luck trying to find something simular for sale there.  If you do, I wouldn't be surprised if your neighbors were traficantes.

Have you thought about having a new house constructed.  It might even be cheaper, and renting a nice penthouse while it's being built.  Or maybe renting for the first 6 months altogether to make sure you like living in south america first, because if it turns out you don't, you may have a hard time selling a big fancy house if you decide to leave.  Just a thought.