The cave

[V_Man]

To the people in meaningful relationships or actively looking for one:
Men do you have you alone time or special area where you can be alone or with other male friends?
Women do you know about a man's need to have periods of being alone?

I just had a conversation about my need for a 'cave' with my novia. It was a new concept for her. She worries too much when I disenguage a little from time to time even when I tell her I need to think and we can talk on xxxday. So I explained about men's need for cave. She seems to understand it.

[Jeff S]

It sounds like you're talking about Allen and Barbara Pease. I'd wager "Why Men Don't Listen and Women Can't Read Maps" is available in Spanish. It is in Japanese. [size=78%] [/size]

[benjio]

I don't necessarily need a "Cave" per se, but I've never had the patience for women that are so emotionally needy they had to be around me every waking minute of every day. I have lots of hobbies and in addition to my 9 to 5 I like to make my own money with numerous little side hustles. It's hard to find a woman into just a few of the things I like to do let alone all of them. I think in any healthy relationship the man AND the woman should have aspects of their personal lives that have absolutley nothing to do with their significant other. It's hard to truly appreciate moments they're together when a couple has very few apart from each other.

[SkyNorth]

VMan...you make be talking about the Holy Grail of a relationship with a woman.  Because every man gets it and most women do not.  I am divorced 3 years so my life is a Man Cave.  But I smell what you're stepping in, we need that time to veg-out, work-out, and plan-out what ever idea in our head at that time.
 
My advice would be shoot for 3-5 man caves. Example, I go to the gym with a buddy I played Football with, there is one advantage to seeing the world and moving backclose to your home town.  I work in an Industry dominated by men and there is a lot of testorone there.  I do some engine work on my bike& boat and that might be a good outlet for you as well.  Just don't tell her that these places make you happy without her and she probably will not want to hang around.
 
She may want to go to the gym once or twice but you and the guys eat some beans or what ever get you rocking. And bust ass on her for and hour and she will be done with that man cave.  I know that works, farts are a time tested way to get rid of a woman.  My grandfather ran my grandmother out of his work shop with natural gas. It worked for my Dad and it worked for me.
 
I know you want an open relationship with her.  So you can tell her everything, but I will have to agree with AC and the hardliners in here; there are certain things you cannot tell a woman. 
#1.  - That her and her friends need to leave you the heck alone as you think on how to close the Delta Account while you work-out with Tommy or change to oil on your Vette.
#2.  - That you cried when you first watched the movie "ole Yeller"
#3.  - Double plus, when she asks "does my butt look to big - is my chest too small, etc."  You  better know which way to go up or down (because they will trick you) and reply with "no sugar you got a small little booty"
#4.  - That you ever lost a fight to anyone.  I know this sounds stupid.  But she needs to feel safe always protected its just the way of life.  She never ever needs to hear that Jimmy Johnson kicked your ass in 5th grade.  That will only put doubts in her mind about you.  Yes, is all this silly, for sure. -- Welcome to the Jungle.
 
I hope this helps, and is just my .02 pennys.

[benjio]

VMan...you make be talking about the Holy Grail of a relationship with a woman.  Because every man gets it and most women do not.  I am divorced 3 years so my life is a Man Cave.  But I smell what you're stepping in, we need that time to veg-out, work-out, and plan-out what ever idea in our head at that time.
 
My advice would be shoot for 3-5 man caves. Example, I go to the gym with a buddy I played Football with, there is one advantage to seeing the world and moving backclose to your home town.  I work in an Industry dominated by men and there is a lot of testorone there.  I do some engine work on my bike& boat and that might be a good outlet for you as well.  Just don't tell her that these places make you happy without her and she probably will not want to hang around.
 
She may want to go to the gym once or twice but you and the guys eat some beans or what ever get you rocking. And bust ass on her for and hour and she will be done with that man cave.  I know that works, farts are a time tested way to get rid of a woman.  My grandfather ran my grandmother out of his work shop with natural gas. It worked for my Dad and it worked for me.
 
I know you want an open relationship with her.  So you can tell her everything, but I will have to agree with AC and the hardliners in here; there are certain things you cannot tell a woman. 
#1.  - That her and her friends need to leave you the heck alone as you think on how to close the Delta Account while you work-out with Tommy or change to oil on your Vette.
#2.  - That you cried when you first watched the movie "ole Yeller"
#3.  - Double plus, when she asks "does my butt look to big - is my chest too small, etc."  You  better know which way to go up or down (because they will trick you) and reply with "no sugar you got a small little booty"
#4.  - That you ever lost a fight to anyone.  I know this sounds stupid.  But she needs to feel safe always protected its just the way of life.  She never ever needs to hear that Jimmy Johnson kicked your ass in 5th grade.  That will only put doubts in her mind about you.  Yes, is all this silly, for sure. -- Welcome to the Jungle.
 
I hope this helps, and is just my .02 pennys.

LMAO!!! Good post.
 
The butt and breast questions aren't tricky at all with Latinas. That's an AW thing with those useless mind games meant to result in an argument, a reason not to have sex with you or both. IMHO sex is a solution (or at least a temporary remedy of) for problems when you're with a Latina, not a weapon used to punish you when they are upset with something you've done or said. If your Latina girlfriend or wife ask you is her but too big or small, pull her close, open up your hands nice and wide and grab a handful of that ass and squeeze nice and firm. Then whisper in her ear, "No demasiado grande ni demasiado pequeño mi diosa, es perrrrrrrrrfecto!" Make sure you roll that "r" in "perfecto" so she can feel the vibration of your tongue in her ear. Then turn her around, get on your knees and bite it. Not so hard you break skin, but enough to leave teeth marks. I guarantee you will not be displeased with whatever happens next. Same thing with the breast question but skip the touching part. There may be kids watching. Depending on the woman it may not be such a good idea to do this in public either, but I will risk that every time. They shouldn't ask questions like that in public anyway.
 
I should seriously charge a fee for this [snip].

[Kiltboy1]

VMan
 
I think it depends on the type of woman you end up with. Latin culture is all about the family and doing EVERYTHING with the family. Going out with the guys is considered only for single men in Latin culture.Go to any ummm bar of ill repute say 1pm-4pm in the afternoon in a Latin country and you will find it full of guys drinking, watching sports or other sporting activities . About 4pm they start to head home to the family. Now that being said, if you marry a woman that is somewhat independent herself , then you have no problems going out with the guys. When my wife got here I had a group of guys that I did things with IE, bars, golf, ect. I still went out and did my things with them and my wife was ok with that. Fast forward 5 years now and if I wanted to still do all those thing, no problemo, but I love being with my wife and family and choose to do most things with them as I miss them when I am doing manly stuff. Those women are out there if you so choose one correctly
 
KB

[fathertime]

VMan
 
I think it depends on the type of woman you end up with. Latin culture is all about the family and doing EVERYTHING with the family. Going out with the guys is considered only for single men in Latin culture.Go to any ummm bar of ill repute say 1pm-4pm in the afternoon in a Latin country and you will find it full of guys drinking, watching sports or other sporting activities . About 4pm they start to head home to the family. Now that being said, if you marry a woman that is somewhat independent herself , then you have no problems going out with the guys. When my wife got here I had a group of guys that I did things with IE, bars, golf, ect. I still went out and did my things with them and my wife was ok with that. Fast forward 5 years now and if I wanted to still do all those thing, no problemo, but I love being with my wife and family and choose to do most things with them as I miss them when I am doing manly stuff. Those women are out there if you so choose one correctly
 
KB

my experience has been similar to good old KB's....


my experience has been that i can have cave time most anytime if I really want/need it...but after marriage it starts to become more and more about the family, the wife, the kids.   cave time is pushed down the priority list...i require less cave time now anyway...maybe that will change again in the future. my experience has been that my wife adapts to what i need to an extent, and I reciprocate.


Fathertime! 

[Ray]

She may want to go to the gym once or twice but you and the guys eat some beans or what ever get you rocking. And bust ass on her for and hour and she will be done with that man cave.  I know that works, farts are a time tested way to get rid of a woman.  My grandfather ran my grandmother out of his work shop with natural gas. It worked for my Dad and it worked for me.
 

 
Yeah, that's what I used to think...until I met my match.
 
 
A family that farts together stays together.     
 
 
Ray
 
 

[fathertime]

LMAO!!! Good post.
 
The butt and breast questions aren't tricky at all with Latinas. That's an AW thing with those useless mind games meant to result in an argument, a reason not to have sex with you or both. IMHO sex is a solution (or at least a temporary remedy of) for problems when you're with a Latina, not a weapon used to punish you when they are upset with something you've done or said. If your Latina girlfriend or wife ask you is her but too big or small, pull her close, open up your hands nice and wide and grab a handful of that ass and squeeze nice and firm. Then whisper in her ear, "No demasiado grande ni demasiado pequeño mi diosa, es perrrrrrrrrfecto!" Make sure you roll that "r" in "perfecto" so she can feel the vibration of your tongue in her ear. Then turn her around, get on your knees and bite it. Not so hard you break skin, but enough to leave teeth marks. I guarantee you will not be displeased with whatever happens next. Same thing with the breast question but skip the touching part. There may be kids watching. Depending on the woman it may not be such a good idea to do this in public either, but I will risk that every time. They shouldn't ask questions like that in public anyway.
 
I should seriously charge a fee for this [snip].

With all due respect benjio if you start charging a fee for this info you will be broke...i just read what you wrote and it sounds silly as hell, i'm imagining women with the eye rolls!   
 if anybody were to say that crap it would have to be spontaneous anyway or it would be like a rehearsed line for drama class.


Fathertime! 

[V_Man]

Jajajajajajaja!!!
Excellent posts!!! You guys are a scream!!

I should have explained a little more. I play a lot of sport. She's into the gym etc but not playing or watching sport. Even dialed way back it still means I have frequent and regular times when I'm playing and she is doing something else. Also she has a life. Hence she has occations when she can get out and do something social without me. Hence we have time apart, regularly and frequently.

So that is just that we don't smoother each other and we have just one or two things that we like that the other person isn't very interested in. Obviously the majority of the things we do and enjoy are the same. For me that's just normal. Whatever her background.

However in addition to that I need to disenguage mentally for short periods when I am stressed. I don't react and make a big drama out of everything that happens. When something is really bugging me I need to just sort of go into my cave mentally for a while and some part of my brain works through the issue. Then I'm back and ready for my hot passionate latina once again. We talk through the issue and then the sex is so hot I'm gonna need a fire extinguisher one of these days. However being a woman they don't understand that and start to panic when their man seems (to them) to become cold and distant. My latina can read my moods like an open book. I find I need to explain to them that I'm always hot for them I just need my thinking time.

With these latinas I sometimes wonder if I should deliberately pick a fight just for the make up sex but it's not as if the regualr sex is lacking either and anyway that is another topic entirely.

The only woman who has ever actually asked me "do I look fat in this" was my sister in law, trying on skins/tights. She genuinely wanted my opinion and she is hot. One of those rare times when a man actually enjoys shopping!! I still choose my words carefully though and got the hot shop assistant to back me up. 

[benjio]

With all due respect benjio if you start charging a fee for this info you will be broke...i just read what you wrote and it sounds silly as hell, i'm imagining women with the eye rolls!   
 if anybody were to say that crap it would have to be spontaneous anyway or it would be like a rehearsed line for drama class.


Fathertime!

I would have thought you could recognize a joke when you read it FT....considering the fact you are one.

[fathertime]

I would have thought you could recognize a joke when you read it FT....considering the fact you are one.

I really thought were giving genuine advise.  The way it was written it didn't seem like a joke, but maybe it was..my mistake for not recognizing the joke.   
Now considering results, if I'm a joke what would that make you?     Before you give a serious response, it's a joke. 


Fathertime!   

[benjio]

I really thought were giving genuine advise.  The way it was written it didn't seem like a joke, but maybe it was..my mistake for not recognizing the joke.   
Now considering results, if I'm a joke what would that make you?     Before you give a serious response, it's a joke. 


Fathertime!   

LOL!! Yeah...I caught yours as soon as I read it. So maybe it's my fault for not having a good sense of humor. All in good fun.

[braziliangirl]

#3.  - Double plus, when she asks "does my butt look to big - is my chest too small, etc."  You  better know which way to go up or down (because they will trick you) and reply with "no sugar you got a small little booty"

I don't know how things work in other Latin American countries, but in Brazil you'd get slapped on the face if you said that.

[braziliangirl]

V,

I agree with KB, if the girl is somewhat independent, she won't have issues with your "cave" time. A question that I always make to guys I'm talking to is if she would be OK with me traveling with my friends, all girls. I don't know how it will be when I'm married (God willing), but right know I need some "me" time too. I make short trips with a group of friends from church once in a while and most of the times it's just girls, doing girly stuff. I really enjoy those times and usually learn a lot from them (they're all older). So, it's the me time for men to do manly stuff is totally understandable. Like, he can go play his soccer while I get my nails done.

Now I understand how girls can be worried when a guy starts acting distant. Women prefer to talk about their issues, maybe talking is our way to find out a solution, so it's not easy to understand when a guy needs space to solve a issue. If the guy tells me he is worried or upset about something and needs to think, I would try my best to understand. But if he just distances himself it gets hard to figure what's hapening.

Did I make sense? 

[V_Man]

Yes you made sense.
It is the second issue that I am talking about. Men don't simply go do men's stuff. They actually sort of remove themselves mentally for a short time. He physically removes himself but he also is mentally going somewhere else. At the same time he still feels the same way about her.

Millions of years of men going off hunting means that men are sort of hardwired in their brains to go off hunting regularly. While they are off hunting another part of ther brains works on their problems. Since today there is no need for them to hunt they need to go somewhere. Even if it is just that they sit and watch TV without takling to anyone for a couple of hours. Mentally they have gone off somewhere for awhile.

As you say women like to talk through a problem.
Men like to sort of phase out and chew it over in their heads first. So he is likely to go tinker on his car or computer or something where he can sort of be in his own little world for a short time. What is really going on is that another part of his brain is working through the issue.
If the woman tried to talk it through with him at this point he would just get frustrated. It probably wouldn't go well and he'll feel resentful to a some degree. What she needs to do it wait for him to come back and then talk.

This isn't easy for her. There is an issue and her instincts are to dicsuss it. Where is he going? What is he thinking? It can't be good or else he'd talk to me. Why is he becoming distant? Is he trying to hurt me? Is he really committed to the relationship? All sort of things run through her head.
In fact she is completely off base. He feels exactly the same about her. He just deals with things differently. But to her it is like he is running hot and cold.

The woman needs to think of it like a rubber band. He needs to regularly pull away a little. Particularly if there is something bugging him but he is not sure how to solve it.
After a little while he will start to get a little feeling that he misses his woman again. Then he'll come back to her. Possibly he'll seem very motivated all of a sudden.
Another way to think about it is like the man has a relationship battery. He has to go charge up his relationship battery regularly. If there is an issue then his battery could drain quickly. Then he needs to go charge it up again. In his mind nothing changed. He just needed a recharge.

Most women don't get this because it is almost oposite to they way women think and deal with issues. If she waits, he will come back and then he will talk. He'll probably be much clearer about the issue, much more receptive to her point of view and even have some ideas how to resolve it. At this point it he may seem quite motivated to be affectionate again.

[braziliangirl]

V,
 
You talk just like Allen and Barbara Pease on their books.
 
So what's the solution? Meet in the middle? Compromise? W: "Baby, I need to talk about this..." M: "I know but I can't right know, I need to sort things out. Can you wait?" Sounds good. Just don't walk away, especially if she doesn't understand the differences between the way men and women deal with problems.
 
I stopped talking to a guy because when something happen he would just stopping communicating then send a message accusing me of something I was not even aware. During his "mental removals" he would ellaborate theories about me or my behavior, then accusing me of crazy stuff and I couldn't even defend myself. That made me value dialogue even more.
 
BG

[V_Man]

V,
 
You talk just like Allen and Barbara Pease on their books.
 
So what's the solution? Meet in the middle? Compromise? W: "Baby, I need to talk about this..." M: "I know but I can't right know, I need to sort things out. Can you wait?" Sounds good. Just don't walk away, especially if she doesn't understand the differences between the way men and women deal with problems.
 
<snip>
 
BG

I never read those books but probably I should. Please always remember that I consider myself to be a very bad source of relationship advice. I do my best and I hope it works for me. Any other good result is a bonus.
I am not so sure about the solution but I think it goes like this:
1. Make sure the woman knows about 'the cave' in the first place. Don't ever assume she'll understand it until you explain it carefully. The woman needs to also accept it, which is not easy for her to do.
2. Understand that she needs to talk through problems. Any avoidance will make it worse. Maybe you need to go into your cave first. That's OK but don't use it as an excuse to avoid talking about the issue altogether. Make sure you both talk and there is time to talk. Talk does not mean rush to a solution either. She wants to explore the problem verbally. Let her do it. (Guys always want to get to the solution).

BG, this is my personal behaviour. I have no idea if it is any good:
Firstly if she ever says: "We need to talk about this.." that is definately NOT the time to go off into my cave. That is exactly the right time to talk about it. At this point my first job is to listen. It's always wise to ask a few clarifying questions to let her know I understand her properly.
If I really don't want to talk about it now then I'll just listen and make sure I understand her viewpoint without committing to tell her my view right now. I can always say I'll think about it and get back to her - just as long as I do get back to her about it.

By the way, saying that to him as soon as he gets home from work is a very bad idea, including if you have been working all day yourself.

If something is pissing me off on the other hand I may very well need to retreat into my cave. So we have a little agreement. I'm allowed to do that on two conditions; I have to tell her that I'm busy thinking and I have to tell her when I'll be back.

Ideally she would use that time to get her nails done, have a bath or something that keeps her happy. She knows I'm going to be back so the best thing she can do is be in a happy place when I return.

When I return I may feel like letting her have it with both barrels. This is never a good idea. A much better way to start is for us both to remind the other that you love them. Then I try and lead her through my thoughts. It's not a good idea to just slap her in the face with my conclusion. She wasn't in the cave with me so she needs to be brought up to speed first.

Another point you raised was accusations. Nobody likes an accusation. A better approach is to explain what behaviour/action/event made you feel xxx. A man may say this quite simply and directly (being a man) but that's OK because it was directed towards the resulting feelings. Women understand feelings and will feel motivated to do something about feelings. Men hate talking about feelings. Men would rather make an accusation. That's just tough luck for the man. He'll have to suck it up and point out that he does in fact have feelings. 

V,
<snip>
I stopped talking to a guy because when something happen he would just stopping communicating then send a message accusing me of something I was not even aware. During his "mental removals" he would ellaborate theories about me or my behavior, then accusing me of crazy stuff and I couldn't even defend myself. That made me value dialogue even more.
 
BG

So you see what happened there?
He went off to his cave. No doubt he didn't explain that to BG.
This raised BG anxiety levels immediately.
He came back having only half chewed it over. He figured out exactly what was annoying him but he did not think about how to deal with it. Then he gave it to her with both barrels.
This confirmed every worst fear BG had. At the same time she had some out of the blue accusation to deal with that she didn't even understand.

In what way is this going to encourage BG to think this is a good way to deal with issues? It just proved the complete opposite.

If he had come out of his cave and said:
I love you...
I have been thinking this over....
This is what I thought about....
These were the questions I asked myself....
When I thought about behaviour/situation..... it made me feel ...../it made me concerned about....
Let's talk about a solution......

If he'd only handled it that way I suspect BG would be doing more than just talking with the guy today. Instead he's missed out on a wonderful lady. His loss.

[Jeff S]

All the more reason to have you and you wife not speak the same language (at least not very well.) Do you realize how hard it is to let her have it (and she you) when you are both flipping through dictionary pages? It tends to slow things down quite a bit and gives you time to think about what you want o say before saying it.

[benjio]

All the more reason to have you and you wife not speak the same language (at least not very well.) Do you realize how hard it is to let her have it (and she you) when you are both flipping through dictionary pages? It tends to slow things down quite a bit and gives you time to think about what you want o say before saying it.

Very good point Jeff, but hopeless with Latinas regardless. When a Latina really gets angry or impatient the Spanish starts to fly like submachine gun fire and you just have to sit there and take it until she calms down. 

[Woody]

It sounds like you're talking about Allen and Barbara Pease. I'd wager "Why Men Don't Listen and Women Can't Read Maps" is available in Spanish. It is in Japanese. [size=78%] [/size]

Great book, BTW. I highly recommend it for both parties.

[kennumen]

It's not directly related but this reminds me of that study where men are mentally exhausted after saying 2000 words in a day while women are only mentally tired after 8000 words. If I allow myself to be blunt, being out with the guys allows you to spend time while saving up your quota while her being out with the girls allows her to splurge and spend up her quota. Win-win

Although I believe the moral of the research was more along the lines of "why men might not want to engage in long conversations after a long work day". I guess that's more along the lines of your comment about recharging the battery.

[Ricardo1]

Men and women are definitely different, generally speaking, in communication styles and in the way their handle conflicts and negotiations. ....
But probably more importantly, the woman you marry or are in relationship with will trump any formulaic approach - the bottom line is that each couple need to understand what communication style each person employs or prefers.  At some point in time, each party also will adapt and compromise for the good of the relationship ....
I for one, prefer to talk things out ( sometime too much so ) so I don't deal well with women who don't like to open up and share. I'd rather know what's on her mind, and the sooner the better - for me.  I do understand to concept of the "cave"  but it's gonna depend a lot on how comfortable both persons are with it, and like I said your lady will let you know how much time she appreciates you being  in your "cave" before she feels ignored...
And vice versa, you'll let her know how much "time out" you're comfortable with....
 

[Calipro]

Men and women are definitely different, generally speaking, in communication styles and in the way their handle conflicts and negotiations. ....
But probably more importantly, the woman you marry or are in relationship with will trump any formulaic approach - the bottom line is that each couple need to understand what communication style each person employs or prefers.  At some point in time, each party also will adapt and compromise for the good of the relationship ....
I for one, prefer to talk things out ( sometime too much so ) so I don't deal well with women who don't like to open up and share. I'd rather know what's on her mind, and the sooner the better - for me.  I do understand to concept of the "cave"  but it's gonna depend a lot on how comfortable both persons are with it, and like I said your lady will let you know how much time she appreciates you being  in your "cave" before she feels ignored...
And vice versa, you'll let her know how much "time out" you're comfortable with....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnVX-uv-QPc

[braziliangirl]

When a Latina really gets angry or impatient the Spanish starts to fly like submachine gun fire and you just have to sit there and take it until she calms down. 

That's true, but that's not a good behavior. You guys can't let us get away with that just because we are Latinas.

I admit that I can be that way when I'm really upset, but I know it's not nice. I would appreciate if a guy told me that he would rather talk when I calm down.