False Accusation route

[Henry]

I've been aware of the possibility for some time now, but I thought there were very few women who would do this. I was talking to a friend from Guatemala who claims that he has seen programs on Spanish speaking TV about how Colombian girls often use this scam to get a green card earlier.

How easy is it for a woman to lie about this? And how often do you think it occurs? Is it common knowledge down there that this is an easy path if they are willing to ruin her husband's life? Thanks.

[Fuzzyone]

    Well I have heard of it happening but I think it happens mostly to men who marry woman to young or fail to see the warning signs ahead of time.

[V_Man]

How easy is it for a woman to lie about this?

An absolute piece of cake!
Also keep in mind she only has to claim to feel threatened, the guy will be thrown out of his own house and she has everything she wants. There is no down side. Even if she is caught lying, there will not be any negative consequences under the law for her.

And how often do you think it occurs?

Frequently. Much more frequently than we are led to believe. The guy is deemed guilty until proven innocent and it is virtually impossible to prove innocence in these cases. Anyway she only needs to FEEL threatened. How can you prove she was feeling anything else?

However in my unscientific research, this is more likely to happen to you if you marry a western woman who has been taught all her life that this is an acceptable way to treat a man. A western woman knows that she is perfectly entitled to behave this way.

Is it common knowledge down there that this is an easy path if they are willing to ruin her husband's life?

I don't know. However it seems to me that this is not well known. They seem far more worried that they will end up in a foreign land and screwed over. The risk seems to start once she is in your country and exposed to feminists. Probably at the same time she is feeling stressed, homesick or otherwise vulerable to suggestions.

There are rumblings in some juristrictions to close this loop whole. Or at least make this more difficult.

Let me be quite frank here. I have a Colombian amiga that has told me repeatdly that there are girls who will do and say more or less anything to get residency in my country. She spelt it out for me. They will be affectionate, have sex, do the whole bit and enjoy it. Yet the whole time their plan is to get residency. They may not know about this particular short cut but they will have a general plan along these lines.

Some posters here will try to vigorously deny this, but it is obvious that this risk is greater with young women. A woman in her 30s simply doesn't have that much time left to screw around. It's not like western women who think they can screw around until they are 40 or 50. A latina is much more in tune with her biological clock ticking away.

On the positive side, my personal experience thus far is that Colombian women are fairly transparent. There should be clues. The trick is to keep some blood running up to your big head.

My amiga advises me repeatdly to take my time. Really get to know my novia over time.

The other thing I am doing is getting to know her friends and family. I also observe how keen she is to introduce me to her friends and family. Observe things like how she treats other people. What are the things that she worries about? What are her goals for the future? What life experiences has she had? How does she act under stress? How does she react to critism? etc etc. If you do your homework you'll get a good picture of what sort of person she is.

Rightly or wrongly, I have made it abundantly clear to my novia that if we have children, she will never be able to take them away from me. Not under any circumstances. She sees this as entirely positive, since she never wants to be a single mother. The life of single mothers in Colombia, leaves a big impression on all women there. Some other posters have suggested get on with having children asap. I don't know if I'd go that far, but perhaps it does help if you both intend to have children.

Another aspect that gives me hope is the very Catholic attitude to marriage that my novia has. This is one reason I am very keen to have a Catholic wedding in Colombia. Her spritual view is that she could never have another wedding under God.

Since I live in Australia perhaps I have an advantage in this respect. It is a way bigger step to create a new life in Australia than to create a new life in the USA. In addition, I have explained what a long process it is, without any guarantee of sucess. I've also explained to her that it is a long path to independance for her here. It is nothing like moving to San Diego. On the other hand it is easy to live in the USA illegally but extremely difficult to do that in Australia.

 The other thing to keep in mind is that apart from the living standards and the much greater opportunities in developed countries, by far most Colombianas would rather live in their own country. Hence it is only a minority who are looking for a ticket out.
Of the cases I have read of Latinas using this trick to get a green card, they all packed a suitcase and moved out. Often to another city. Hence the poor guy only wasted some time and money. He didn't get royally screwed. A western woman would take a man to the cleaners.

It may sound contradictory but overall I think the false accusation route is less of a risk than people make out. You have to compare it to the very real risk that a native of your own country would do this to you. There have been many cases where things did not work out and the latina was keen to return to Colombia - not find a devious way to stay in the foriegn country.

Although it is easy and I suspect common enough, I am fairly sure that if you studied the statistics this risk is much greater with a western woman than a latina. The whole fear is exagerated by western woman who hate the competition from latin women.

[mudd]

could tell you countless stories of colombianas doing what it takes to get here, usually marrying some clueless guy who is in fantasy land that a 20 year old girl will stick around once she gets up here. i have  had several paisas  ask me to find some guy to marry for money so they can get a green card. even know one girl who got her visa, flew into miami airport, walked right out the door and her fiancee never saw her. he got an e mail 2 days later , telling him she was not in love and was not going to see him. she had " plan b" lol


also, as v-man stated, as here also, once a girl is here, its extremely easy for them to pull the " abuse card" and not just physically, mentally also, and once they file a case with DHS, 99% of the time, they are allowed to stay, even without and proof.

[Bob_S]

Wow.  If that's how bad it is in Man's Land Oz where V_Man is, you gotta know it is infinitely worse in p-whipped emasculated America.

Though from the anecdotal cases I've read about on these boards, it seems far more likely to occur with a Russian bride who is far more crafty, cunning, intelligent, and lethal than a doe-eyed western man in love can possibly imagine.  Ah-hem...  Anyway...  As Latinas tend to wear their heart on their sleeve, I'd think she'd be more likely to plant a meat cleaver in your crotch than a knife in your back if she had ill intentions towards you.  And she'd be telegraphing her intentions well in advance.  Nevertheless, it wouldn't be a bad idea to find a way to shelter your assets well ahead of time.  Just in case, you know.  Because when it happens, you'll never see it coming.  Look up the term "SWATTing".  It can happen to you.

[CeeTeeEnn]

A disturbing thought, especially when one considers the oh-so-PC route by which this is being done.

A woman simply has to *feel* threatened and it doesn't even seem to matter what the definition of "threatened" is. Whilst V man is 100% on target when he says "The whole fear is exagerated by western woman who hate the competition from latin women", i can only imagine this getting worse in years to come, the world over. The only way to stop it is to utterly destroy the Western PC culture that offers poor vunerable women such unconditional and unreserved protection, and I cannot see that happening in my lifetime.

The only light at the end of the tunnel i see is for a website database, to be set up maintained and hosted in a jurisdiction that guarantees free speech, where guys post write-ups and pics about their ex-es (no, not that kind of site ) stating how long they were together, exactly how they were screwed, and maybe where the girl is now. Of course checks and balanced would need to be put in place, but if enough men used such sites to check out a prospective partner, it might make any woman of any nationality think twice before trying to pull this scam. Maybe such a site exists already...

Just my tuppeneth.

[V_Man]

Yes definately a good idea and it has been tried many times. It always seems to get shutdown.

I think that the pendulum will swing back for 2 main reasons:
(a) the more men that either avoid marriage or go get a foriegn bride, the more women find they have to compete.
(b) these laws affect women and girls. Mothers, daughters, new partners. The more it screws up the lives of these women the more pressure there will be for change.

[Calipro]

"Republicans on the House Judiciary Committee have argued that current VAWA confidentiality protections for immigrant victims of domestic violence

need to be eliminated

because some immigrant women fraudulently claim abuse to obtain citizenship -- an assertion not backed up by evidence or common sense."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/16/vawa-house-bill-national-coalition-for-men_n_1521762.html


If the house GOP gets it's way it will be a lot harder for immigrant women to get a visa simply by claiming abuse.....they will have to prove their case.


My guess is that there are probably more guys that abuse their immigrant wives in some way than women that falsely claim abuse.

But I'm all for changing the law to protect guys that are so dumb that they brought a woman here that doesn't even like them let alone love them. jajaja!!!




"House Republicans’ retooled Violence Against Women Act, which passed Wednesday, guts protections for immigrant victims. The White House is promising a veto."


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/05/17/the-house-s-immigrant-betrayal-with-new-violence-against-women-act.html

[Kiltboy1]

Easy !!!
 
I have a friend who works for my company going through this right now. His wife had him arrested, put in jail for 3 days and then has the prosecutor going after him for abuse and he could face some jail time if he cannot  get it thrown out of court. Thing is, his wife is not young, she is 38, From an upper class family in Brazil. Like many of these cases, there is usually pressure from outside groups trying to convince the woman into doing this type of thing. Guys need to be aware that the laws are on the books to help these ladies  get a green card sooner the later and at the mans expense.
 
KB

[CeeTeeEnn]

I'd like to look into this further Vman. I remember there was an uproar here a few years back about a Californian website that allowed men to rate the prowess of various ladies of the night, based on their personal experiences. An utter POS politican named Harriet Harman petitioned Arnie to take it off line but he told her were to go. I'm sure where there's a will, a way can be found.

My faith in the pendulum swinging back is compromised by the fact that such discriminatory laws will take years to draft and pass, and yet more years will pass before the test cases trickle through the systems. In the case of foreign brides, the ubiquitous popular image still depicts an ageing, socially inept or worse, Western husband abusing a young, pretty but poor and naive girl from some God-forsaken land. It would be a brave politician who takes the side of men in the face of this ingrained stereotype. It would take a braver one still to take on the vested interests of all the pseudo-intellectuals, lawyers, councillors, feminists and various other "-ists" who would surely gang up to protect the pillars of their precious little state-funded empire from being attacked. As of now it makes no difference to the skanking lying woman, be she foreign or otherwise, whether or not she upsets the reputation of women as a whole by way of her deeds. She will bite the apple now and deal with all the consequences later, if at all. And it makes no difference to us guys, many of whom kid ourselves that by marrying a non-Western wife and living with her in the West we will somehow be exempting ourselves from all the crap affecting the guys trapped in unhappy marriages with manipulative and exploitative Western women. All it takes is one TV show, fem-rag article, or nugget of poisonous advice from a nasty gf to send a good marriage down the road to ruin, and the man with it.

No, I believe the only factor that may make a difference to Western pro-fem legal frameworks is if millions of young Western guys, weary of all that is happening with their older bretheren, start migrating to countries where men still hold all the cards in a marriage - and take all their talent and taxpaying potential with them. Seeing the parlous state of Western economies in the face of an emerging BRIC & Third World, this may start to happen for economic reasons but i believe that no impact will be felt on Western legislatures until various governments start to recognise that a prime mover for young men's emigration is a desire to marry and raise families away from any threat of state-sponsored misandry. An emerging shortage of tax-payers first and foremost, and potential fathers secondmost, might just persuade some politicians to act. But for this to happen, we're talking generations not decades.

So for now, i believe a database might just be the best form of protection men might have from such women and the systems that exploit and benefit from them. One of the greatest victories of aggressive Western feminism has been the systematic whitewashing of women's reputations, and the way this whitewashing has subsequently enabled many women to discard many long-held notions of behavioural "cause and effect". The results of this are evident in numerous divorce, abortion and illegitimate childbirth statistics. Therefore if some means can be found by which women's true reputations can once again be brought to the fore then i'm all for it. If one man can provide another with sincere and well-founded advice that the girl he is dating has been outed already as a player, a liar, a neurotic or worse, then at least he will have been warned and will then be able to exercise the options of living in denial, investigating matters further or dumping her entirely. At the very least, such means would prompt men to start doing something which we have been notoriously bad at doing for far too long -  looking after ourselves.

[Stevieboy]

I haven't walked in any of you yall's shoes, but what V_Man said about marrying her in her country under her catholic rules & beliefs is spot on. My family is mostly catholic (hispanic). The men might not behave well, but if the woman  (wife) misbehaves or does anything that looks bad under the eyes of God, everyone; dad, mom, aunts, grandmothers, sisters, brothers, cousins yada ,yada will gossip and shun her. Putting her in the position of risking mental anguish, shame and possible eternal damnation IMO is the way to go. Men's risk is mostly financial.
.
As an example and to be aware of westernization of her, my ex-wife is Amercian born hispanic catholic, yet her behavior and God fear is nothing like that of a REAL catholic because afterall, she looks around and sees all the whores and homos mibehaving around her. God is bound to let her thru the pearly gates compared to these people . Anyhow, I got off the point of the example: My ex-wife had gotten pregnant on purpose. For over two years nobody would believe me until she broke down and confessed to her mom. Her mom gossiped to her sister, then gossiped to my mom. So now all the women know she trapped me. My ex also remarried within only one year after our separation and the gossip among the catholics continues. I came out looking like a saint, yet the fool. And my-ex carries that shame with her constantly. I also remind her every once in awhile when I pick up my daughter.
.
I haven't married a foreign woman yet, but I'm definitely gonna meet her parents during the romance dance to see how close their religious convictions are. Also, as my mother always says, "If her mom is ugly, she will be too", so if the girlfriend is super hot, but, her mom is a gargoyle, I'm leaving.

[Calipro]

Easy !!!
 
I have a friend who works for my company going through this right now. His wife had him arrested, put in jail for 3 days and then has the prosecutor going after him for abuse and he could face some jail time if he cannot  get it thrown out of court. Thing is, his wife is not young, she is 38, From an upper class family in Brazil. Like many of these cases, there is usually pressure from outside groups trying to convince the woman into doing this type of thing. Guys need to be aware that the laws are on the books to help these ladies  get a green card sooner the later and at the mans expense.
 
KB

The only guy that I know that had anything like that happen to him was married to a 40 year old Honduran women.....she even went so far as to have her teenage daughter claim that he molested her. Unfortunately for the woman the guy got arrested for molestation and when the teenager was question by police she admitted that it was all made up.


You know the only thing you guys have to do is find a woman that just doesn't mind sleeping with you for two years and you really don't have to worry about any of this....I mean it only takes about two years to get a permanent green card.


Instead of trying to determine if a woman is really going to be a life long loving wife in a few months of face time....why not just find one that just really likes banging the hell out of you every night.....at the very least the relationship will be enjoyable while it lasts and you won't have to worry about being accused of abuse.

[Stevieboy]

Instead of trying to determine if a woman is really going to be a life long loving wife in a few months of face time....why not just find one that just really likes banging the hell out of you every night.....at the very least the relationship will be enjoyable while it lasts and you won't have to worry about being accused of abuse.

That's true in any relationship. I thought if she had sex with you too soon it was a bad sign. I would think if she slept with me the first week of dating, she's trampy, or at least that's what I'd think of an American girl.

[V_Man]

Instead of trying to determine if a woman is really going to be a life long loving wife in a few months of face time....why not just find one that just really likes banging the hell out of you every night.....at the very least the relationship will be enjoyable while it lasts and you won't have to worry about being accused of abuse.

Well in my case it gets a little complicated because she really enjoys "banging the hell out of <me> every night" and she is very determined that we should be married for life as well. But hey! You never know your luck in the big city. It could all turn to custard before we marry.

Of course you are right Calipro.
None of us men should be trying to get married and live in a western country. It's absurd!
In my case I blame my parents.
They brought me up with an unshakable belief that I should be married until I die and raise great kids in a stable home. I can't seem to loose this ridiculous ideology even though the evidence of it's total futility is overwhelming, relentless and omnipresent.
If my father had buggered off at my birth and my mother had been a dole bludging, feminazi skank I would be so vastly better equipped to deal with the reality of contemporary society.

So what can I say. I'm just doing the best I can with the cards I got dealt.
It's all my parents fault.

[Jeff S]

Here's some interesting information for the evil man abusing the innocent wife crowd:  http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm

SUMMARY:  This bibliography examines 282 scholarly investigations: 218 empirical studies and 64 reviews and/or analyses, which demonstrate that women are as physically aggressive, or more aggressive, than men in their relationships with their spouses or male partners.  The aggregate sample size in the reviewed studies exceeds 369,800.

[Buckmarston]

A word to the wise.

TMI vman.  It goes without saying.  If I were planning on possibly marrying a lady I would discss sexual intimacy in a less vulgar way than saying she bangs the hell out ofme.  I don't discuss such details with close friends nevermind an open board.

[V_Man]

A word to the wise.

TMI vman.  It goes without saying.  If I were planning on possibly marrying a lady I would discss sexual intimacy in a less vulgar way than saying she bangs the hell out ofme.  I don't discuss such details with close friends nevermind an open board.

I realise you were addressing the wise and not me, but I'll respond anyway because I'm bored.

In my limited experience, Colombians don't have so many hang ups about sex. She has made jokes about our sexual appetites to both of our families and she has higher standards of social etiquette than I have.
For an Australian man I am the pinnacle of propiety when it comes to discussing my sex life. Admittedly the bar couldn't be much lower. Australians are not exactly world famous for their tact in such matters. Even so, I think I may be allowed to call myself a gentleman.

In addition I used quotation marks to highlight that these were not my words. Above all else I am anonymous here so I can put on any persona I feel like and tell complete lies - how would you know any different?

So dude, lighten up.

[utopiacowboy]

I realise you were addressing the wise and not me, but I'll respond anyway because I'm bored.

In my limited experience, Colombians don't have so many hang ups about sex. She has made jokes about our sexual appetites to both of our families and she has higher standards of social etiquette than I have.
For an Australian man I am the pinnacle of propiety when it comes to discussing my sex life. Admittedly the bar couldn't be much lower. Australians are not exactly world famous for their tact in such matters. Even so, I think I may be allowed to call myself a gentleman.

In addition I used quotation marks to highlight that these were not my words. Above all else I am anonymous here so I can put on any persona I feel like and tell complete lies - how would you know any different?

So dude, lighten up.

That was a damm funny post.

[Researcher]

      Henry,

        This is one of the pitfalls of marrying a foreign woman. It is really basic stuff to be aware of in this venture.

        Researcher

[aconcepts]

V man I was not too sure about you at first but now I think you may get it.


Loved the lighten up post, jajajajajaja


However a word to the wise (and the Australian too)


"Rightly or wrongly, I have made it abundantly clear to my novia that if we have children, she will never be able to take them away from me. Not under any circumstances. She sees this as entirely positive, since she never wants to be a single mother."


I have found in my manyyears on the planet and my Wilt Chamberlin like labido that when you tell a women that she cannot take away the kids, you are revealing your achilies heel.


Now in Cuba I know men that adore their children but do not show it in a way that would reveal their feelings to the "other side."


Keep your cards hidden.


Also. I love it when a man says "aw AC. but my chick is different."


That is a signal that a disaster is imminent.


Women are all the same. They are women.


Tell yourself whatever story you want but the moment you really believe that you and her are soulmates and one - your are ripe for the pickings, Actually you are contributing to her possible negligence  in a split up. Revealing your weakness enables the split up.


Be the man.


The man does not show his weakness no matter how politically corect the man-boys in the US think it is.


Pure indoctrination pansy crap.


Take it to heart all who read this, Don't let her know what you really want.


Why, because she will with hold that to get what she wants.


reread that!


Mis information is a husbands best friend. Better than a dog...

[Buckmarston]

I was offering advice to not kiss and tell.  It is probably entertaining but there is n. o other payoff to you. Think about it.

[aconcepts]

BM - think about what? You are in an anonymous boys club... My man, you think about it... And don't get your panties in a knot. Tranquilo! Its all crap here anyways - why so serious with the PC stuff. Ohh don't kiss and tell, what ...are the women watching?? The screens have ears... come on dude. Play guy style will ya... Most men here believe that the US is incredibly feminized and women are masculine... that is why they look overseas.


What you think talking frankly about women is bad? It says you are located in Colombia.. and what you worship women? Are you one of those Americans that go south and give the rest of us Americans the pussy whip reputation. My Tico buddies laugh at the Americans that come down here and treat the working girls or pay for play chicks like girl friends. Or fall so flat on their ass in love/lust that they just get walked on. Grow a pair dude. kiss and tell so what. Know one knows anybody here. Get a grip.


Tell us about yourself... make crap up if you want. The PC police are not folloing you, or are they??? shhhhh... who can it be now... who can it be now...

[fathertime]

V man I was not too sure about you at first but now I think you may get it.


Loved the lighten up post, jajajajajaja


However a word to the wise (and the Australian too)


"Rightly or wrongly, I have made it abundantly clear to my novia that if we have children, she will never be able to take them away from me. Not under any circumstances. She sees this as entirely positive, since she never wants to be a single mother."


I have found in my manyyears on the planet and my Wilt Chamberlin like labido that when you tell a women that she cannot take away the kids, you are revealing your achilies heel.


Now in Cuba I know men that adore their children but do not show it in a way that would reveal their feelings to the "other side."


Keep your cards hidden.


Also. I love it when a man says "aw AC. but my chick is different."


That is a signal that a disaster is imminent.


Women are all the same. They are women.


Tell yourself whatever story you want but the moment you really believe that you and her are soulmates and one - your are ripe for the pickings, Actually you are contributing to her possible negligence  in a split up. Revealing your weakness enables the split up.


Be the man.


The man does not show his weakness no matter how politically corect the man-boys in the US think it is.


Pure indoctrination pansy crap.


Take it to heart all who read this, Don't let her know what you really want.


Why, because she will with hold that to get what she wants.


reread that!


Mis information is a husbands best friend. Better than a dog...

yoyo aconcepts! 


I like what you wrote but I really can't agree with one conclusion. 


My thought is I want to tell my wife what I really want and if that results in her telling me what she really wants that is ok with me.  There is no problem with a little negotiation here and there, just so long as the wants are not out of line on both ends.   Maybe I misunderstand and you agree with that point or maybe not....What say you? 


Fathertime! 

[V_Man]

That was a damm funny post.

Gracias mi amigo!

[V_Man]

V man I was not too sure about you at first but now I think you may get it.


Loved the lighten up post, jajajajajaja


However a word to the wise (and the Australian too)


"Rightly or wrongly, I have made it abundantly clear to my novia that if we have children, she will never be able to take them away from me. Not under any circumstances. She sees this as entirely positive, since she never wants to be a single mother."


I have found in my manyyears on the planet and my Wilt Chamberlin like labido that when you tell a women that she cannot take away the kids, you are revealing your achilies heel.

<snip>


Take it to heart all who read this, Don't let her know what you really want.


Why, because she will with hold that to get what she wants.


reread that!


Mis information is a husbands best friend. Better than a dog...

Firstly I haven't been "getting it" since I left Colombia. Oh wait..... different topic! Ooops! jajaja!

Secondly AC - don't take offense but I think you are talking about a different sort of relationship than I am.
 
She'd have to be a moron not to figure this out of her own, given everything else she knows about me. It's much better to to set right at the start what simply wont be tolerated. If she tries to play games with her own child as a porn she'll wonder why her bum hurts before she even realises she is on the curb. Rightly or wrongly. best she knows that in advance, I figure.

Why, because she will with hold that to get what she wants.

Dude, you are contradicting yourself. This is not acceptable behaviour in an adult relationship. What happened to all this talk about being "the man"? That didn't last long.

My adivse: Don't tolerate it. Be a man when it actually matters. Define some friggin boundries. Let it be known there are good and bad consequences depending on the choices you both make. Lead by example. Stamp out that pattern of behaviour good and early. Show her how to get positive results from positive actions instead. You need to be an adult and do the same.

To manipulate your spouse by witholding love for a child is simply unacceptable under any circumstance to me. Witholding a child to get something she wants is child abuse. If I was willing to put up with that attitude I'd stick to western women.

I have zero tolerance with my wife sleeping around either. We've made that very clear to each other as well. That's one of her big fears. I'm not going to play games with that fear either.
How about you both be adults and set some friggin boundries on behaviour!!!

Sure, all women have an urge to be manipulative with smaller things. They are women. Men do it too. However both people need to choose if they want to play games or be married. Do you they want a positive relationship or not?

It takes a certain level of maturity that has nothing to do with age, wealth or education.

If you think you are going to be married with someone and not discover their deepest fears, I guess you have a different concept of marriage to me.

AC at some point, if you want a deep, lasting long term relationship with another person you need to trust that person. if you can't trust her with your deepest fears, why the hell would you marry her?
Don't.

Hence if she knows what my fear is and then still exhibits a similar sort of behaviour it's more than a little red flag to me.

Maybe in wrong. Maybe all the wise people have it sorted out and know better. I didn't claim to be one of them.
Rightly or wrongly that's how I'm playing it.