They are there

[Jeff S]

I'll try to keep this in short simple sentences, so it's really clear to you and everyone.


I never said anything about restricting the forum to only happy talk.


I never said anything about making or not making recommendations about giving women money, showering them with gifts, or how you treat them. All viewpoints are welcome.


OK - got that?


You, aconcepts, and several others, are proud of the fact that you get a lot of tail while in Latin America while spending the least amount of cash. That's fine with me. I have no issues with that. You're welcome to do that all you wish, brag about it here, and give instructions to others on how to follow in your footsteps.


Still with me?


I ONLY said that following in your (collective) footsteps wasn't for me, and for some of the other men around here. That our desires and lifestyles were something other than that.


I was called snippy and condescending for it.


This board was founded by and is populated mostly by men looking for wives overseas, interested in bringing them back to the US, the people I am referring to above. We have also have always had another, usually quite vocal crowd, those who have no interest in marriage, only in "dating." Readers and lurkers are always free to choose their own path. I only commented to let those who may be looking for a wife know that the techniques and attitudes being expounded in this thread may be much better suited to those looking for a "date."

[aconcepts]

"No, I'm not taking the "look at me I'm happily married" condescending attitude."
 
Yes you are.
 
And good for you that you are happily married Jeff. I am happy for you. Most people that are here are looking for advice because they are in the searching mode - as you guys like to say, "wife hunting"... Like going to the quarry to hunt something, Jeff.
 
I wish everyone were happily married. Just as I wish everyone had everything they wanted. Fact is that some/most don't. You have to work for it, hunt. Like in wife hunter and quarry???
 
"I'm responding to your condescending  "look at me, I'm a macho man, getting a lot of tail, and you married jerkoffs don't know how to keep your women in their places" attitude."
 
Whoa – a little disapproving are we? Judgmental maybe?
 
And most in the US in my opinion don't. Hey it's my opinion and I am not the only one who thinks that. Plus I put my money where my mouth is and left. I am not living there and doing nothing about it except whining. Yes, IMO the majority of men in the US are indeed clueless. If they were not then why have they let things get so out of control there and have to look internationally??
 
"Being proud of hanging out in the third world and getting a lot of tail is fine. Those who wile away their lives doing just that, often seem to assume that everyone else secretly yearns to be like them. That's a self aggrandizing fantasy.
 
"wile" as in deceive, like Wiley Coyote? More Condescending attitude?
 
Most men in the US have no clue how to manage their women. That's my opinion only. They bend bend bend. Like I say if it was so good there, why are they looking south or east?
 
I don't know maybe there are some guys that do not live in LA but like the idea of living here and getting a lot of tail...
 
Funny I meet them all the time during business hours. Also many kinda want to know how I did it. How I got to be so free. But then others don't like others who are free.
 
"There are nice, sincere, and happy men both on the Asian and on the Latin side who aren't interested in leaving their lives in the US and Canada, moving to Latin America and banging their brains out with as many young women as they possibly can for the least amount of money possible.
 
Hardly my (our) point and why so defensive? The point is that you can't throw a bunch of money at women thinking it will make it all good. Does that work in the US. Don't ya kinda think that's been done before maybe just a little bit???
 
It's nothing about getting a bargain. It about being real and not insulting or luring women with cash and trinkets. Unless you are looking to play. Then lure away... But the locals will look at you, and rightly so, as a jackass, because you are luring a small mouse with a pound of filet megnon.
 
If you are sincere than the last thing you want to do is lure a latina who is sincere. If you do you just struck out.
 
Hey guys! Come down here throw your money away and look like a jackass!!!! Is that the message you want? I didn't think so...
 
"The majority of the married guys here on the Latin board who post here regularly are clear examples. Most got out of miserable marriages with their local wives, went south, and found what they were looking for, sincere traditional wives who they could have the kind of marriage with the originally wanted with their first wives. And they did it without turning into Latinos."
 
You state your opinion as fact.
 
Pretty presumptuous I would say.
 
What's wrong with Latinos BTW? I think when it comes to women and living life and having fun Latinos are way better at it the Americans, Europeans, Asians are IMO. Just come on down and take a look. If I am going to choose a culture to party it ain't gonna be Japan or North American that is for sure.
 
You got uneducated poor men dating gorgeous woman and the women are cooperating. Why? Because Latinos know how to rumba my man. Talk smack. It's called charm. They can dance and drink and talk crap way better than most Americans…. Something wrong with that??? We know you just don't want to pay way more in time and treasure, blood and sweat for the curves, but that is you. Some of us live for the curves…
 
Who mentioned quantity anyways? You are the one that made the "quarry" sound pathetic, when you were in the quarry as we all were at one time or another."
 
I see but you are above the quarry now?
 
They can't find sincere traditional wives in the US? Why?
 
Do you really believe that the majority of men that "bring home" Latin wives do any better with them there.
 
The US playing field is stacked against them. Much more to lure them away there than there is here.
 
I bet there are much more marriages that fail with foreign Latina brides than are a success. IMO the ones married and reporting happily so are the exception to the rule.
 
God Bless Them!
 
But it's all a crap shoot and just because IMO more fail does not mean that Jack or Joe's will fail.. Step on up and take your best swing.
 
We are just offering some batting technique. What to swing at and what to let go. Defining the strike zone so to speak.
 
IMO most wife hunters in LA are lacking. Why? Because they did not go through the learning curve. Why? Because they had no educational opportunity presented to them. They could not identify the learning curve, so they winged it. Thus they swing at pitches out of the strike zone. Many are so clueless as to the game that they don't even know you only get three strikes, and then you are out.
 
Man that can be costly to be thrown out on strikes in Latin America.
 
Now OP and I are trying to give insight... Batting tips…
 
Selfishly speaking,
 
I don't appreciate the clueless ones coming down here and screwing it up for me and my Latino buddies.
 
Just like they did in the real estate boom market.
 
Run down here and throw money at it.
 
That is the American way right? Throw money at it? Worked for the education system right? Works for the military right? Bankrupting the country.
 
We are advocating a sane approach to finding women here and you get uptight regarding veterans such as myself enjoying my life as I see fit and trying to help other not to fall on their face and go broke or behave like Jackasses.
 
I don't see you giving out much advice regarding how not to be taken in Latin America on a Latin American forum. But you are sure tossing your opinion around like fact. So how exactly are you contributing to preventing other's negligence? By espousing your morality?
 
There is a difference between whore mongering with prostitutes and enjoying the "quarry until the right one comes along."
 
Me I am grateful for my lot in life. I don't think anything less of anybody, married, whore mongering, enjoying the quarry or even gay. Hey, that said, I would sure appreciate it if gringos don't come down here and screw it up for those that live here. You can choose to act whimpy or gay but please keep it away from our women. If you want to dump, dump in your own back yard...
 
If you are coming here without the intention of smelling it up and do because you don't know any better, well maybe a few here can give you some valuable tips on how to drink your tea.
 
This way Ticos won't feel like other cultures that see the US and its culture blur and Hollywood attitude as perverting their culture.  No more provocation to run airplanes into tall building. So save us all the probing at the airport and don't come down here and further pervert the culture, the US entertainment industry is already doing it for you. Just be patient and I am sure that all men worldwide will soon be chicks…
 
Until then me and my commanding and charming Latino compadres will continue to battle on for peace, justice and the Latino way! Like all good Supermen!!!  jajajajaja

[V_Man]

I agree with Jeff.
I think that advice is more directed to people looking for a date than a wife. To get to wife candidate stage she should have already passed through that BS long ago while others were filtered out.
Each to their own wants and all that....

[Jeff S]

Not at all disapproving a/c. I'm the guy who has been approving most of your posts, and don't have any disagreements with what you're posting. It's just not where I'm at at this stage of my life, and not where a lot of guys who read or lurk here are at. I've spent a lot, and I mean a LOT of time in Latin America going back more than a couple decades - more than a couple dozen trips, and have had interactions with many, many, many Latinas.


It's just that with everything I have to think about - business topics, investments, politics, auto maintenance, where to go on vacation, what I want for dinner, what kind of single malt Scotch to buy, how long to get the lawn to grow before I mow it, whether to go duck or quail hunting, and on and on, am I being a compete PW to let my wife make decisions like whether to put cilantro or basil in the vinagrette dressing on the salad that we have with my osso bucco recipe that she carefully prepared in strict accordance with my recipe?

[aconcepts]

Funny Jeff - you disregard my points and defend your rightness. Try to make me out as a control freak mandating cooking ingredients. yeah right. Thanks for approving my posts. Gee I didn't know you had to like them to approve them. But thanks again, no good deed goes unpunished right?


I've spent a lot, and I mean a LOT of time in Latin America going back more than a couple decades - more than a couple dozen trips, and have had interactions with many, many, many Latinas.


I didn't realize you hand been to Latin America and got mucho mucho mucho tail. What now you are kinda like a reformed smoker?


Oh and BTW VM you have to date before you marry. Elementary Watson... But I guess you are above the quarry as well with your first Colombiana novia? Hmmm The voice of experience rings clearly!


Gotta go, the chick in the icon called me and she has a 3 day weekend... I'll be thinking bout you guys while I am under the palapa with my 22 year old hottie nice girl drinking an imperial and watching the loose dogs playing the surf! Pura Vida all or should I have said pura thong bikini (I should now as I picked it out being the control freak that i am!- jajajaja Shower time!

[utopiacowboy]

Colombian women are used to dealing with Colombian men. They are their fathers, their brothers, their co-workers, classmates, lovers, boyfriends all throughout life. So even though they may complain about them and want someone "different" that's what they are used to. An American guy who has been "feminized" by the culture IMHO is not a good candidate for a Colombiana. She'll run all over him and have little or no respect for him. Once I asked my wife to compare me to Colombian guys and she said, you're a gringo Costeno! I had to laugh, she's right.

[opusone]

Colombian women are used to dealing with Colombian men. They are their fathers, their brothers, their co-workers, classmates, lovers, boyfriends all throughout life. So even though they may complain about them and want someone "different" that's what they are used to. An American guy who has been "feminized" by the culture IMHO is not a good candidate for a Colombiana. She'll run all over him and have little or no respect for him. Once I asked my wife to compare me to Colombian guys and she said, you're a gringo Costeno! I had to laugh, she's right.

And this is the point of the entire story! Anything contrary to what U.C. ,states here, is truly a farce. This goes for anywhere in Latin America. What has happened thru the process of time is that the culture, as a whole, has been taking notes, on how we handle certain situations. We are not just talking about spending money on women , but more so, the way you handle yourself so that you are not seen as a sucker when you do decide to give it a go! They, are not interested in the way you do things in the States, rather, they are interested in how well you adapt to what they do . After all,  you are on their turf. The place has rules (a cadence if you will), and you can't navigate well if you don't understand it. You can't go around blaming them either. It is what it is, and one just needs to understand the poison you wish to pick. You can't compare your trust levels in the States, or Europe per say, to that of when you are in a place such as Colombia. Ask Jamie, he will tell you about trust in Colombia. You can't make this stuff up, it happens.


To Jeff, ...just because we are not talking about investments ,politics, auto maintenance , petunias, type of sauce to use in linguini pasta, etc., does not negate the point we are making.  We love talking about those things to , for they are a part of our everyday life. It's just that we chose not to talk about those things in this particular discussion. If you didn't agree with what we said, then don't participate by throwing it off just because you would rather talk about the engine in your '67 stingray corvette (great car). What good would that do in this conversation? Look at how many guys come on this board who are preparing for the  first excursion into the "quarry",looking for  a wife), and come back  a few months later stating that they absolutely got taking for a ride. I have read those posts with my own eyes. They were shell shocked because of the beauty , the passion, etc, and now, they literally become a "paypal". They may even become paypals to extended "friends", new found business partners, or dare I say, and entire family. I think this is a healthy discussion to have since this kind of madness is being repeated over and over again. I have seen good conservative girls gone bad with this new found formula. Guess who created it? What do you expect them to do when they see this happening? I would run down to Western Union too, if you were spending tons of money . This is why we are saying what we are saying. Don't feed the monster and screw it up for guys. 


 WHy anyone would think that this discussion is directed more at finding a "date"  than finding a wife, is being contrarian . So, if I date 10 women in the quarry to find my diamond in the rough, am I a monger all of a sudden? Perhaps a serial dater?When did that become anyone's business?Dating more than one woman to find out which one is suitable for the title of "wife", is paramount, and should never be confused with spending tons of money "dating" just because you like dating. Who does that? Only desperate,insecure male who feels that this is his only way to find a mate would do such things. Even if you wanted to date 100 women in L.A., just because you like dating, you still don't have to be the buffoon and spend tons of money.Women don't respect men like that, they use them. You don't have to get ripped off at the supermarket,  taxi driver, real estate scam, etc. You're not home, nor are the people that you think are impressed, impressed with such behavior. Once you spend it, that is your worth to them. Your diabetes would not matter no more than the next apartment you wanted to purchase when you are there. This "money will fix it" attitude, is a double edged sword in such societies for gringos. We want everything now, pay for it no matter what the cost, and then when it doesn't work out, start WW3. In closing, I will say that this board has guided men of all stripes and colors , and, strives to help men find a mate that can share the wonderful things life has to provide a couple. As we travel in these less fortunate lands, we should remember that poverty, trumps honesty any day of the week. People are impoverished financially , socially, and certainly ,intellectually, (if you wish to compare our standards to theirs),and will not hesitate to have you fix it just right for them .

[Buckmarston]

I've been happily married for 6 years to a calena.  There was no false struting or acting like I was more Than I was.  When I read what these single men write I understand better why they are still single.  At least a part of the reason is they like to play.

[aconcepts]

BM - I'd rather be lucky that good!


False strutting (Is that some kind of girlyman dance? The falseletto struto!). Like it has been said )It takes all kinds to make the world go round." I never believed that, it just so happens that all kinds are here, they really are not need em to keep the circle turning...



OP - frickin monster post - you hit the nail on the head.


Many points that simply peg the social economic differences.


Yes they are there. That is both good and bad.


The good is that the pulsating poison exists... jajajaja.. The bad is that its located in a foreign land with foreign rules written in a foreign language.


The good: it's a wild ride.
The bad: it's a wild ride.


Primal passion cannot be primordial if it's been over educated. That is why the great cultural of the world, Asia, Europe (except maybe Italy / those Italians are so passionate no amount of education could over civilize them) I know I fricken am one - and it aint easy - a frickin curse actually) have less passionate, less primordial people.


Now the good is you can communicate in the same language, the bad is too much talking and not enough "knowing," resulting in a tremendous amount of mental copulation rather than physical fornication.


The good: consistency
The bad: redundancy
Too much of the same intellectual crap.




So, in kung fu you make the opponent bend. \\


When you latch on to him, you don't bend your back or bend your knees.


You latch him in a straight posture self-adjusted to your needs and bend him to fit your posture.


You adapt him to you by making him fit you; you do not adapt yourself to fit him.


You bring him into your balance; you do not lose your balance to fit his posture.


Ok Sifu, where are you going with this?


patients grasshopper...


When you step off the plane and into Latin society. The opponent forces you to bend to their posture. As OP says "After all you are on their turf"


The object is to learn enough technique to no longer need to bend to fit them.


This is done by learning the opposition. As OP says:


After all,  you are on their turf. The place has rules (a cadence if you will), and you can't navigate well if you don't understand it…"


Fast forward so this does not turn into yet another (I don't get paid for) book.


Veterans that have learned the ropes here know their techniques and use them against the opponent. They learn the cadence of the land (turf), which is timing, movement, rhythm.


"They, are not interested in the way you do things in the States, rather, they are interested in how well you adapt to what they do ."


As OP says about adaptation, you self-adjust first, (that is you make your internal and external changes (gather intelligence and learn the local moves), this allows you to posture yourself in a way that you can latch them without giving up your balance. This allows you to adapt. When you bring them into your circle of power and latch them with your self-adjustments - you have adapted and are ready to lead.


In San Soo its called reversal or counteraction or simply "counters."


When the opponent grabs you and is taking you to a location, to counter you speed up in the same direction, thus enter a neutral zone, by moving your body there before he can get you there. You use the same direction (cadence: timing, direction. movements) to free yourself of the hold.


Now this requires that you understand the opponents movements and intentions.


In LA its crucial to understand the movements and intentions.


OP just laid out some of the intentions below:


"As we travel in these less fortunate lands, we should remember that poverty, trumps honesty any day of the week. People are impoverished financially , socially, and certainly ,intellectually, (if you wish to compare our standards to theirs),and will not hesitate to have you fix it just right for them ."


The goal is for them to fix it for us, not for us to fix it for them.


So when you walk the proud land, and they latch you, you go with them and at the opportune moment you use their energy to fix it for you. To find a hotel at a good price in a good area, to find a chick that fits you requirements, to find a taxi driver that is well connected etc etc etc.


To find a family that has raised their daughter in a way that fits you.


Not a daughter that you have to bend to... so you can fit her.


Get it grass hoppers of all color and creed???


I got other crap to do as its frickin raining (wow can you believe its raining in the rain forest - what frickin next - everything is late including my chick...)


Take it away OP -

[Jeff S]

Funny Jeff - you disregard my points and defend your rightness. Try to make me out as a control freak mandating cooking ingredients. yeah right. Thanks for approving my posts. Gee I didn't know you had to like them to approve them. But thanks again, no good deed goes unpunished right?

Do you really want me to address your points one by one - well OK.

"No, I'm not taking the "look at me I'm happily married" condescending attitude."


Yes you are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y


Gee - that was sure productive.

"I'm responding to your condescending  "look at me, I'm a macho man, getting a lot of tail, and you married jerkoffs don't know how to keep your women in their places" attitude."
 
Whoa – a little disapproving are we? Judgmental maybe?

I was trying to be polite and friendly, but if you insist - Yes I was exercising judgement. Try definition 2 below.

judg·ment   [juhj-muhnt]  noun


1. an act or instance of judging.


2. the ability to judge, make a decision, or form an opinion objectively, authoritatively, and wisely, especially in matters affecting action; good sense; discretion: a man of sound judgment.


3. the demonstration or exercise of such ability or capacity: The major was decorated for the judgment he showed under fire.


4. the forming of an opinion, estimate, notion, or conclusion, as from circumstances presented to the mind: Our judgment as to the cause of his failure must rest on the evidence.


5. the opinion formed: He regretted his hasty judgment.

In my judgement, your actions aren't in good sense or discretion.

"Being proud of hanging out in the third world and getting a lot of tail is fine. Those who wile away their lives doing just that, often seem to assume that everyone else secretly yearns to be like them. That's a self aggrandizing fantasy.


"wile" as in deceive, like Wiley Coyote? More Condescending attitude?

No - not as in deceive. Or were you just using condescension demonstrating that it is more common to use the form while in while away?

Paul Brians (Common Errors in English Usage) advises, under wile away/while away:


”Waiting for my physical at the doctor’s office, I whiled away the time reading the dessert recipes in an old copy of Gourmet magazine.” The expression “while away the time” is the only surviving context for a very old use of “while” as a verb meaning “to spend time.” Many people substitute “wile,” but to wile people is to lure or trick them into doing something—quite different from simply idling away the time. Even though dictionaries accept “wile away” as an alternative, it makes more sense to stick with the original expression.


I've been struggling with this one for some time for the Eggcorn Database — wile away might be seen as a replacement of the opaque (and, except in this idiom, obsolete) verb while by the somewhat more frequent wile — but the case turns out to be very complex. In particular, if this is an eggcorn, it has to be labeled "nearly mainstream".


The first shocker is that wile away is over 200 years old. The OED's first cite is from 1796 (Fannie Burney), and it has cites from, among others, Scott and Dickens. (The first cite for while away is from 1635 — clearly older, but not vastly so.) Meanwhile, as Brians notes, it's in some modern dictionaries, among them NOAD2 and AHD4.


In the comments section of the ecdb, Ken Lakritz noted (on 8/9/05) that wile away was common, speculated that it


seems to reconceptualize passive timewasting as an active tricking or deceiving of time.


and provided a set of examples:


A group of off- off- off- off-Broadway actors wile away their days at a local eatery dreaming of winning the lottery and making their own movie. (link)


The Decembrist: Alternative Histories
How different history would be if Rumsfeld had decided to wile away his days running a country newspaper with a rumpled, gay New York leftist! (link)


1950 and the coastal town of Rimini is about to experience another influx of the monied elite who come to wile away their time in elegant beach houses. (link)


In order to wile away the days of his confinement, Ralph made friends with an old olive tree he dubbed “Garibaldi”, in memory of the biscuit. (link)


I could wile away the hours Conferrin’ with the flowers Consultin’ with the rain
And my head I’d be scratchin’ While my thoughts were busy hatchin’ if I only had a brain. (link)


Why Should You Care About Unions?
After you graduate, you’ll get a good job, have a little money in your pocket, and wile away the days in middle class comfort. (link)


That's an eggcorn account: the new version makes sense (to some people) in a way that the old one did not.


At the other end of the scale, wile away could arise as a spelling error, especially for those who lack the /hw/-/w/ distinction (in pairs like whales vs. Wales). This possibility is hinted at by npetrikov in the Eggcorn Forum on 5/1/08:


“Wile away” seems a formation that must occur naturally among persons who either cannot pronounce or cannot hear what we oldsters used to label /hw/.


And W spellings for WH in while — a wile or awile for a while and awhile, for instance – do seem to be pretty common.


Again and again in discussions of potential eggcorns, we have to consider that some instances of innovative spellings might have arisen from simple misspelling. On the other hand, someone who doesn't hear the /hw/-/w/ distinction might interpret the first word in while away as in fact the word wile — rather than merely "spelling by ear".


In any case, once the spelling wile is out there, new speakers may come to think that the spelling makes sense. Or they might simply be reproducing the spellings they see. For the purposes of the eggcorn database, it's sufficient that the contributors can satisfy themselves that at least some of the instances involve a reinterpretation. We're not claiming that all of them do.


Finally: when an innovative variant becomes nearly mainstream, it's not uncommon for some people to view the older variant as an innovation — in a reversal of the actual history. So we get comments like this, by jorkel on the Eggcorn Forum on 5/1/8:


“Wile away” is an idiomatic expression meaning “to spend time pleasantly.” “While away” would be an incorrect understanding of that expression with enough imagery attached to it to be an eggcorn in itself…


One really has to wonder if the eggcorn went the other direction historically.


At least jorkel contemplated the possibility that the eggcorn went the other way historically. Sometimes users of the innovative variant are absolutely convinced that what is in fact the historical original is an error, possibly a recent one.

Shall I continue or we just chewing up bandwidth putting everyone else to sleep?












 

[fathertime]

interesting reading aconcepts!  I think there are points there that can be utilized in many aspects of life, especially the adapting to fit goodies.  I didn't think of it in the same terms as you.  I suppose some people naturally like to encourage others to fit to what shape they want,  and others want to be the one that does the changing/fitting.    I would imagine the most important factor is to know what it is you want to be...do you want to be a fitter or a fittee.  jajaa


Fathertime! 

[Jeff S]

To Jeff, ...just because we are not talking about investments ,politics, auto maintenance , petunias, type of sauce to use in linguini pasta, etc., does not negate the point we are making.  We love talking about those things to , for they are a part of our everyday life. It's just that we chose not to talk about those things in this particular discussion. If you didn't agree with what we said, then don't participate by throwing it off just because you would rather talk about the engine in your '67 stingray corvette (great car). What good would that do in this conversation? Look at how many guys come on this board who are preparing for the  first excursion into the "quarry",looking for  a wife), and come back  a few months later stating that they absolutely got taking for a ride. I have read those posts with my own eyes. They were shell shocked because of the beauty , the passion, etc, and now, they literally become a "paypal". They may even become paypals to extended "friends", new found business partners, or dare I say, and entire family. I think this is a healthy discussion to have since this kind of madness is being repeated over and over again. I have seen good conservative girls gone bad with this new found formula. Guess who created it? What do you expect them to do when they see this happening? I would run down to Western Union too, if you were spending tons of money . This is why we are saying what we are saying. Don't feed the monster and screw it up for guys. 


 WHy anyone would think that this discussion is directed more at finding a "date"  than finding a wife, is being contrarian . So, if I date 10 women in the quarry to find my diamond in the rough, am I a monger all of a sudden? Perhaps a serial dater?When did that become anyone's business?Dating more than one woman to find out which one is suitable for the title of "wife", is paramount, and should never be confused with spending tons of money "dating" just because you like dating. Who does that? Only desperate,insecure male who feels that this is his only way to find a mate would do such things. Even if you wanted to date 100 women in L.A., just because you like dating, you still don't have to be the buffoon and spend tons of money.Women don't respect men like that, they use them. You don't have to get ripped off at the supermarket,  taxi driver, real estate scam, etc. You're not home, nor are the people that you think are impressed, impressed with such behavior. Once you spend it, that is your worth to them. Your diabetes would not matter no more than the next apartment you wanted to purchase when you are there. This "money will fix it" attitude, is a double edged sword in such societies for gringos. We want everything now, pay for it no matter what the cost, and then when it doesn't work out, start WW3. In closing, I will say that this board has guided men of all stripes and colors , and, strives to help men find a mate that can share the wonderful things life has to provide a couple. As we travel in these less fortunate lands, we should remember that poverty, trumps honesty any day of the week. People are impoverished financially , socially, and certainly ,intellectually, (if you wish to compare our standards to theirs),and will not hesitate to have you fix it just right for them .

Wish I could follow what you are saying and come up with a thought-through response, but sorry I can't.


I'm all for not showering money on women your don't know or barely know, so I guess I agree?

[V_Man]

Yes they are there. That is both good and bad.

<snip>
The good: it's a wild ride.
The bad: it's a wild ride.
<snip>

Oh so true!!!!!
Sums up everything really!!!! 

Oh and BTW VM you have to date before you marry. Elementary Watson... But I guess you are above the quarry as well with your first Colombiana novia? Hmmm The voice of experience rings clearly!

She is not my first but I have repeated over and over that I have limited experience and am no expert. There is no saying how it will end either. Hence there is no reason to be snarky.
Other than that, your point is spot on. You have to date first. Also I am all for guys dating lots of women in their search. If they even need to ever be married at all. I simply pointed out that your advise was tailored to that stage in relationships. A statement that your response appears to agree with. What's with the hostility and condescension?

[aconcepts]

FT - its true at times you need to be what is poured into the cup. That is the cup is the shape and the content fits the shape (cup).


But as you see, the cup controls the contents.


Now i am not advocating always being in control. Sometimes you control and sometimes you are controlled. You can learn a lot from being controlled (following), just as a child learns from being controlled. But when traveling to a foreign land the more you know "the cup" (what is controlling you (through the laws, social mores turf etc) the better chance you have of choosing what suits you best.


However the point is when newbies come to LA they have very few control options, as they are always being controlled just because of the newness of it all.


So I think it important that the newbies understand the native points of view, social mores, so they can be more effective and efficient in their efforts.


Now I don't know if the San Soo learning apparatus fits this discussion, but having a measure of control makes one more confident.


False confidence (thinking you know without going through the learning curve) is dangerous.


In San Soo its called beginners knowledge. you know just enough to get in trouble... Jajaja its like thinking you are fluent in a language and you are not... it leads to a lot of misunderstandings that can be very costly.


Understanding the Latino mindset when you are in Latin America is crucial. The info OP lends to the discussion is like inside stuff that you may not learn over many trips here.




Snarky, hostile, condescending... well maybe I think its a shame that OP wise remarks are met with such apathy.. actually demeaned by the "oh well my life is so busy I am just not into it. Ok... so? Does that make it irrelevant to many here; implying that his info is unimportant.


the opposite is true.


its essential and insightful. These insight are also rare as it takes someone who really knows to point them out. That makes then valuable.


So it irks me to see valuable content slighted... simply because it might not apply to someone else.


I contribute heavily here if you like it or not... jajaja and when I see valuable info from someone else I get excited as most of the things I see here are simply banter and that has a place but its common.


OP insights are unique. Valuable to me and I would like to see them encouraged rather than discouraged because someone finds they are not relevant to them.




To good words in this discussion were snarky and quarry.... jajajaja

[V_Man]

Colombian women are used to dealing with Colombian men. They are their fathers, their brothers, their co-workers, classmates, lovers, boyfriends all throughout life. So even though they may complain about them and want someone "different" that's what they are used to. An American guy who has been "feminized" by the culture IMHO is not a good candidate for a Colombiana. She'll run all over him and have little or no respect for him. Once I asked my wife to compare me to Colombian guys and she said, you're a gringo Costeno! I had to laugh, she's right.

I agree with this and also with what opusone wrote.
I think that the feminised indoctrination of western men in general leaves those men poorly equiped to deal well with a latina once they are in a relationship. Personally I think feminist ideology fails to prepare men and women correctly for almost all meaningful relationships of all kinds but that is another topic.
  Fortunately for me I've had any illusions I may have had about feminism knocked out of me years ago. I also have a natural advantage since I am hard wired to pay much more attention to what people do than what they say. Your latina is going to give you clues about what really works. You just need to be alert to them while staying affectionate at the same time. There is a balance.

I've been happily married for 6 years to a calena.  There was no false struting or acting like I was more Than I was.  When I read what these single men write I understand better why they are still single.  At least a part of the reason is they like to play.

I also agree with this. I don't know if it is just that they like to play. I openly wonder if they simply struggle to find the right balance. First though, let's get this in perspective.

Given the way laws and society treat men, why shouldn't they be players? Why shouldn't they be single? If I say it is no surprise some guys are single given their writings, please don't imagine that I think being a single man is somehow a bad idea. No! Quite the reverse! In fact from the man's point of view I'd ask him to first justify to himself NOT being single. He better have a very good reason to be anything other than single IMHO. So yeah perhaps it's no surpise they are single. Good for them. Maybe not so helpful for others.

The problem with gringos being players in LA is that it raises the question in a latina's mind as to what is the value of gringos over a local man other than money? You think latinas don't know what's going on? So these players perhaps make it more difficult for guys who are more focused on achieving something long term. Personally I used that to my advantage but YMMV.

[aconcepts]

VM - perciscley regarding having a good reason not to be single




Most American males have it backwards when it comes to this. The wife hunters need a wife. They define themselves by it.  If a woman gives me a good reason not to be single than so be it.


The thing is most men give themselves good reason not to be single then they tell themselves a bunch of lies and create this false image of their woman. Its an image that fits them perfectly... but its an image - not reality.


The image they have created of their woman, not actually the woman herself, is what gives them reason not to be single.




"other than money"


That's a big other than for most women who value the nest and what furnishes it and clothes and being scene out, etc etc - money supports vanity in a way probably no other commodity does...  women more so than men (in general) live for status.


Money is a huge factor and probably the main reason Latinas date out of their culture.


Look most Latinas with money do not date outside their culture. And if they do its because they are marrying up in either a financial or physical manner or most likely both.

[Jeff S]

VM - perciscley regarding having a good reason not to be single


Most American males have it backwards when it comes to this. The wife hunters need a wife. They define themselves by it.  If a woman gives me a good reason not to be single than so be it.

The thing is most men give themselves good reason not to be single then they tell themselves a bunch of lies and create this false image of their woman. Its an image that fits them perfectly... but its an image - not reality.

I see now, so it is a bunch of lies that two together as a team can survive and prosper better than one alone, but one studly dude using and throwing women away, alone is reality?

Do you really believe this stuff, or are you trying to just convince yourself with your high school locker room braggadocio?
 

[fathertime]

VM - perciscley regarding having a good reason not to be single




Most American males have it backwards when it comes to this. The wife hunters need a wife. They define themselves by it.  If a woman gives me a good reason not to be single than so be it.


The thing is most men give themselves good reason not to be single then they tell themselves a bunch of lies and create this false image of their woman. Its an image that fits them perfectly... but its an image - not reality.


The image they have created of their woman, not actually the woman herself, is what gives them reason not to be single.


 

Yo AC,
Many things give me joy, one of the best things is being married to what I feel is a beautiful young lady who is bearing me kids.  From my perspective, that is the pinnacle of life.   I imagine other men have another definition of what their pinnacle is, but I think you are for the most part mistaken, about men who have married a young babe.  I think for the most part we are pretty happy with the reality.  For the most part I don't think the men travelling to Latin/South America should be lumped in with the general population of males who are suffering through unhappy marriages to ladies that they are not attracted to.
Fathertime!

[aconcepts]

"Yo AC, Many things give me joy, one of the best things is being married to what I feel is a beautiful young lady who is bearing me kids.  From my perspective, that is the pinnacle of life.   I imagine other men have another definition of what their pinnacle is, but I think you are for the most part mistaken, about men who have married a young babe.  I think for the most part we are pretty happy with the reality.  For the most part I don't think the men travelling to Latin/South America should be lumped in with the general population of males who are suffering through unhappy marriages to ladies that they are not attracted to.Fathertime!"


FT I don't understand how you construed your reply from my post?


Can you clarify please?

[aconcepts]

Ok I reread it and I get what I left out -


I was referring to men in unhappy marriages who get married just to have someone around or to feel complete. You know like the woman who marries to escape her parent or gets married just because that is what all her friends did.


My mistake as I did not make myself clear.


There is nothing better than a happy family with two and a half kids and a dog.


I sincerely hope everybody finds that - and everybody can but your satisfaction level depends on how wisely you choose. Many time this has to do with how well a man mines the "dreaded" quarry!!!! Whistle while you work!!! jajajaja

[V_Man]

Yo AC,
Many things give me joy, one of the best things is being married to what I feel is a beautiful young lady who is bearing me kids.  From my perspective, that is the pinnacle of life.   I imagine other men have another definition of what their pinnacle is, but I think you are for the most part mistaken, about men who have married a young babe.  I think for the most part we are pretty happy with the reality.  For the most part I don't think the men travelling to Latin/South America should be lumped in with the general population of males who are suffering through unhappy marriages to ladies that they are not attracted to.
Fathertime!

Exactly!

[Bob_S]

Ok I reread it and I get what I left out -

I was referring to men in unhappy marriages who get married just to have someone around or to feel complete. You know like the woman who marries to escape her parent or gets married just because that is what all her friends did.

My mistake as I did not make myself clear.

You do that a lot.  You forget your audience here.  Your advice would be very sound for young'uns in their late teens to mid 20's who rush to get married because that is what everyone else is doing and they don't want to be left out and they gotta get theirs before all the single women are taken.  Society has changed quite a bit in the past 50 years, and I'd say there are precious few of either gender in this country who are truly marriage-worthy at that age.  Some will mature, some may never become marriage-worthy, but you just can't tell at that age.  It's a crap shoot.
But by the time a person reaches a point in their life where they become even a lurker on this board, they have a better sense of themselves, whether it be perpetual bachelor or husband/father.

[Calipro]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tracy-mcmillan/why-youre-not-married_b_822088.html

[V_Man]

te amo

You do that a lot.  You forget your audience here.....<snip>

Yep! +1

[Jeff S]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tracy-mcmillan/why-youre-not-married_b_822088.html

That about sums it up...