when confronted in colombia, what to do??????

[mudd]

Im always preaching about the dangers and crime in medellin and with the sad ending to dennis levy recently ( he will be missed) maybe we need to list the dont's  when confronted with a crime, since american and foreigners in general act differently than locals and we seem to get into trouble... you would think this would be common knowledge, but amazing how many guys dont follow simple advice/rules,  as with my friend last night lol, of course he would never tell me he got robbed, since he knows medellin so well and robert is a cop  ( read below)least they didnt fight or argue with the robber. they lost some things, but all can be replaced.  so hopefully a newbie  will learn something, feel free to add to it.


1, dont be a target, but if confronted by a gun or knife, dont try to play the bad ass or hero, just give them what they want and dont be confrontational, its just not worth the $$ and material things to get shot or killed.


2, dont be in an area where you dont know it or the people by yourself, especially at night.


3 be leery of anybody, seen  many guys robbed by people who they thought were their friends.


4, dont carry large amounts of cash, nice watch or flashy clothes/ jewelry, just draws attention to you


5, be watchful of people watching you in malls, amazing how many guys get robbed this way, locals
cruse the malls watching who goes into expensive stores and then follows their target out the mall.


6 carry a fake wallet with old credit card thats no longer working and some cash, a robber gets pissed when he doesnt get something, you dont want to get shot because you only had $ 20,000 pesos.


7, never leave your drink unattended in a bar or restaurant.


8 dont invite a girl you dont know back to your room/ apartment ect, easy way to get druged, happens all the time
9, see a problem, walk away, dont get evolved.


10 dont bragg to anyone about your job, your assets or how much $$ you make, somebody might be listening


Alberto,[/size]hey I was heldup at gun point last night in Bello, robbed of money, my watch, my favorite Colombia bracelet, robbers took the keys of car and was stranded until 7:30 am. Got a towe truck to get my car home. Roberto was also robbed, loss his IPhone, money, watch, his hat...it was a long night. Very scary the guy hit me with the gun on my forehead, was bleeding. It was a good area of Bello Stratus 3. The police finally showed up and guarded us until day break... [/color]

[SkyNorth]

So what do you do when you getting robbed?  After you have been robbed but are waiting for the Police to come.  You have nothing to give...maybe a shirt.  I am not trying to be a smarty pants just curious.
 
Think about it, if you are just standing in a place you got robbed 15 minutes ago - How do they know your being straight when you say "bro. your amigo just hit me up".  Go see him he has my coin.  Timing is everything.  Or do they just throw you a beating? Or worse?
 
Don't get me wrong I still like to rumble, I'm 6-2 - 217 lbs. ex-college football but knives guns multiple guys...no thanks.  Plus, throw in being in Colombia and I agree that does not seem prudent. How does one judge fight or flight in Colombia?

[V_Man]

What you must always keep in mind is that life is much less valuable in Colombia. This is partly because of the lack of consequences. There are more than 5 murders a day in Cali and only 5% of those are prosecuted. Whereas us gringos are used to a prosecution rate of 95%.

One tip a local gave me was to stay away from any obviously hot girl you see in a night club, etc. Spead a lot of time checking her our first and becareful about eye contact. Her drug dealing boy friend may be right around the corner. This actually happened to me so it was good advice. I was in a resturant in Cali and there was an "enhanced" girl sitting on her own looking at me. I did not approach her and even avoided eye contact. A little while later her drug dealing boy friend came out of the bathroom with his body guards.

Here is my experience which most illistrates Mudd's point. I was in a bad part of Bogota. I was warned to be careful.
I was walking hand in hand with my girl.
At one point I thought that I would be targeted. I was in a tight spot and I was very aware that it would be perfect for a pick pocket. My spider sences were on full alert. But it didn't happen there. Then a few minutes later as I was walking along the street which was relatively benign compared to where I had just been but still in the bad part of town. I felt a pick pocket undo the zip in my jacket where my cheap mobile phone was. I felt it and grabed my pocket before the theif got anything.

This is where I think things can go bad. As a western male I had a strong sudden urge to turn around and identify the thief. If I had done so I know I would have had a strong urge to be suddenly violent or at least very physical. This is an instinctive male reaction to protect one's property and to demonstrate that one is not an easy mark.

However in my case my brain clicked into gear instantly. I forced myself NOT to turn around. This was not easy to do in the instant that it occured. I am a peaceful person but I'm still a male. I knew I would have trouble controlling myself if I confronted the thief. The chances were high I would have reacted more than a little physically. On the other hand if I gave him just a few seconds I knew instinctively that he would blend in with the crowd to avoid being caught. What one needs to think is that this phone (even if he had been sucessful) costs about $30 to me. An esculation of violence could cost me my life. Also one has to think this other guy is poor. He didn't try to harm my person. He tried to steal my cheap phone. Weigh up these things in your mind very quickly BEFORE you react. I FORCED myself to NOT turn around and to keep walking.

The foiled thief got clean away.
On the other hand, the worst thing that ever happened to me in Colombia is that a pick pocket unzipped my pocket and got nothing.

I think that if you are a gringo and a hot head trying to "be the man" then things can go bad for you very quickly in Colombia. "Stay alert" means enguage brain before acting. That way you'll be fine.

That is my (very limited) experience anyway.

[fathertime]

However in my case my brain clicked into gear instantly. I forced myself NOT to turn around. This was not easy to do in the instant that it occured. I am a peaceful person but I'm still a male. I knew I would have trouble controlling myself if I confronted the thief. The chances were high I would have reacted more than a little physically. On the other hand if I gave him just a few seconds I knew instinctively that he would blend in with the crowd to avoid being caught. What one needs to think is that this phone (even if he had been sucessful) costs about $30 to me. An esculation of violence could cost me my life. Also one has to think this other guy is poor. He didn't try to harm my person. He tried to steal my cheap phone. Weigh up these things in your mind very quickly BEFORE you react. I FORCED myself to NOT turn around and to keep walking.

 

looks like you played that one just right.


Fathertime!

[Woody]

Alberto, hey I was heldup at gun point last night in Bello, robbed of money, my watch, my favorite Colombia bracelet, robbers took the keys of car and was stranded until 7:30 am. Got a towe truck to get my car home. Roberto was also robbed, loss his IPhone, money, watch, his hat...it was a long night. Very scary the guy hit me with the gun on my forehead, was bleeding. It was a good area of Bello Stratus 3. The police finally showed up and guarded us until day break...

Since when is any part of Bello considered a good neighborhood? That place gave me the creeps more than the Assassin's Cradle.

[benjio]

Mudd,
 
Excellent advice that's valuable for rookies and veteran SOTB Travelers alike.
 
One thing I've noticed that some guys can't ever get away from is the fact that they are Caucasian. No matter how careful you are you will always draw an amount of unwanted attention when you're white in Colombia. Not so much in Bogota or Medellin I believe, but in any smaller city you can be a walking target. I have been lucky enough to get away with going a lot of places I wouldn't recommend any white man going in Latin America because of my skin color. I'm especially comfortable any place along the coast of Colombia as I've learned to mimic the Costena Accent to an extent. In the past, even after I became fluent in Spanish, people would always ask me where I was from after a few moments of conversing with them. I was determined to remedy that to improve upon my own security whenever I was there so I bought some accent training CD's and took some language workshops.
 
Whitey's numerous experiences with people his wife knows recognizing him in Barranquilla is a perfect example. In a city of a little over a million and a half people with a metropolitan area that covers 65 sq. miles people were picking him out of a crowd. I'm not sure how far Whitey has ever ventured passed the hotels he stayed in or the area his wife's family lives in but still....someone with skin as light as his, blue eyes and blonde hair might as well be wearing a strobe light around their necks.
 
IMHO the most significant risk factors that accompany dating in Colombia come from the fact that it's usually a gringo that's doing well for himself back here in the states dating a girl(s) from a relatively poor family. Let's face it...how many guys do you know or have heard of that married Colombianas from affluent backgrounds? Jamie is the only one I know. There are a number of safety issues that arise from dating poorer girls:
 
1. Your girlfriend is going to run her mouth about you...especially if she is truly in love. Everyone in her barrio will know of you and her family will know a lot more. Why? Obviously because she's proud of you at some level, but also because there's nothing better for poor Colombians to do but sit around and talk about other people. It's a pastime there. I've heard many girls talk about dating a gringo as if they hit the lottery or something. And their families are usually not very far behind them waiting for the bread to be broken.
 
2. Eventually, you're going to have to visit her family. If you don't want to pay for her entire family to meet you somewhere, you're going to find yourself treading through her barrio at some point. I would always plead with my ex not to announce to the world when I was planning to visit her family because it wasn't safe. Sometimes those requests still fell on deaf ears though. The more unpredictable your movements are the better.
 
3. When starting to date in Colombia, especially at the very beginning, you're going to try your best to look nice. Latinas place huge value on how a man dresses and grooms himself. Only an idiot would wear fancy watches and jewelry, but sometimes a nice pair of slacks and a shirt is enough to bring the wrong kinds of attention to you. Outside of northern end of the city, has anyone seen what the average Barranquillero wears on a day to day basis? Not much of an upgrade from rags, and some of them are actually wearing rags or much worse (Again...not so much the case in Medellin or Bogota where a lot Colombianos are better off and dress comparable to gringos).
 
There's nothing anyone can do to change this stuff. It's the nature of the beast. But I think Mudd's advice is a damn good start when you're trying to stay safe. Luckily for us, but very unfortunate for Colombianas, a Colombian Policeman once told me that armed robbery targets are usually girls that are alone, in some type of working uniform, carrying a purse, not paying attention because they are talking on the cell phone.
 
An old school gringo that had been living in Colombia more than 20 years once told me he had been robbed at least a dozen times during his tenure there. Once he was stabbed because he simply wasn't carrying any cash or his wallet. Imagine that...a guy wants to hurt you because you didn't have anything to give him, not because you resisted. As I've gotten to know him better over the last three years I'm convinced these were situations he usually put himself in. He is a part-time monger that does cocaine once in a while and mingles with some questionable characters. He told me he started carrying around a huge wad or $1000 Colombian Peso bills wrapped in a few $50,000 COP bills. This way, if he was robbed, he could hand the assailant a large wad of money. They would be happy, and then run away, having only made off with a couple of hundred thousand pesos and some change. If for any reason he had to carry more cash, he would put it in his sock.
 
My recommendation would obviously be to stay away from prostitutes, prepagos and drug dealers...but this gentleman did have a number of little tricks and some good advice for watching your back in Colombia.
 
 

[mudd]

1. Your girlfriend is going to run her mouth about you...especially if she is truly in love. Everyone in her barrio will know of you and her family will know a lot more. Why? Obviously because she's proud of you at some level, but also because there's nothing better for poor Colombians to do but sit around and talk about other people. It's a pastime there. I've heard many girls talk about dating a gringo as if they hit the lottery or something. And their families are usually not very far behind them waiting for the bread to be broken. 2. Eventually, you're going to have to visit her family. If you don't want to pay for her entire family to meet you somewhere, you're going to find yourself treading through her barrio at some point. I would always plead with my ex not to announce to the world when I was planning to visit her family because it wasn't safe. Sometimes those requests still fell on deaf ears though. The more unpredictable your movements are the better.

ahhh yep, forgot this one.  i know two guys who were robbed,one in cali, one in medellin. the  one in med  got the krap kicked out of him, because both were dating girls from poor barrios and they were bragging about their gringo novios and got set up. like Benjio says, girls love to brag and gossip, even more if they are dating a gringo.

[Researcher]

     First off be aware of what is going on around you. Sometimes you can avoid being confronted that way. In the event you are confronted don't resist. I have mentioned before about carrying a "fake" wallet. What I mean by that is I carry a wallet with old expired credit cards and an ATM card from an old account. I make sure I put some money in it, but not alot. Any money I carry is going to be in a seperate pocket or sometimes my shoe.

    These criminals that rob people aren't doing it so they can be told you don't have anything. If they don't get something they probably won't just walk away. If they do get something they will be focused on getting away and probably won't take the time to do you physical harm.  That isn't always the case  but it is your best chance at not getting hurt or worse.

      Researcher

[V_Man]

 A Colombiana told me about her brother who got robbed in Baranquilla. She explained to me that you need to consider that the young guy robbing you could be more scared about the situation than you are. After all he is always gambling that someone doesn't simply shoot him.

Her brother got held up with a knife. He had his valuables in a bag that was clipped onto his belt. He tried to get his valuables out of the bag to hand them over right away but the zip caught. While he was struggling with the zip the robber paniced and sliced him open with the knife.

Also the comment about being white is true. I simply assumed that where ever I went I may as well have had a neon strobe around my neck.
However what I discovered is that the vast majority of Colombians want you to enjoy their country and also they do not stare at you. I was definately noticed but I was not made to feel uncomfortable about it.

Personally I think being a visitor for a short time is relatively safe. This is because it's very hard to predict your movements. However I have a biased view because I am always with a local when I am in Colombia. If I was on my own, I'd be more concerned.

Having said all that.
If you stay in the cities and away from the poor barrios, Colombia is not nearly as big a risk as you may think. The vast majority of crime is not directed at tourists. Most serious crime in Colombia is very localised to specific areas. For example most murders in Cali occur in barrios 13, 14, 15 and 16. Hence simply stay out of those areas. This makes a dramatic difference to your risks.

[htown]

How common is it for colombians who are not gangsters or robbers to carry firearms?  I live in texas and it is very common for average people to carry a gun with them in their vehicle and even on their person.


How easy is it to buy a gun in colombia and how easy is it to carry concealed handgun with you as you move around the city?  What are the realistic consequences if a cop finds you with a gun?  What are your rights if you happen to shoot someone who tries to rob attack you?

[SkyNorth]

Htown...I live in GA and we like our guns as well. However, no matter what your fellow Tejas bro's have told you, 9 times outta 10 your gun ends up in the hands of the criminal getting you shot or dead.
 
Now put that in the hands of a very capable Texan in Colombia and your best case is to end up in a Colombian jail for 40 years because you shot a local.  All to save a $15 watch from Overstock, $5000 pesos and a cloth wallet.
 
I did find this on the net "In Colombia, the maximum penalty for illicit possession of firearms is 15 years of prison term^{36"           http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/colombia}
 

[benjio]

How common is it for colombians who are not gangsters or robbers to carry firearms?  I live in texas and it is very common for average people to carry a gun with them in their vehicle and even on their person.


How easy is it to buy a gun in colombia and how easy is it to carry concealed handgun with you as you move around the city?  What are the realistic consequences if a cop finds you with a gun?  What are your rights if you happen to shoot someone who tries to rob attack you?

Not common at all...which is why you'll usually hear of someone being stabbed as a result of a robbery instead of shot. Illegal handguns are not at all cheap in Colombia. Most of the guns I've seen that were owned illegally were very old...to the point I would have been afraid to fire them. Another thing is a lot of armed robbers in Colombia do not have bullets for their guns. Never worth it to take the chance, but some guys just run across an old pistol and start wielding it around never actually having rounds to do harm to anyone.
 
It's easy to purchase a firearm almost anywhere in the world. If owning a gun is illegal, or you need a permit to do so in any particular country, it's simply of matter of money and knowing the right people. Colombia is no different. You can obtain a permit to legally carry a firearm in Colombia (even as a gringo with a visa) but from what I understand it's a daunting process that's long and expensive. It helps to be a business owner.
 
I've never heard of anyone shooting a person in self defense in Colombia while they were being robbed. IMHO, I don't think anything would happen to them if there were reasonable evidence of the circumstance...ESPECIALLY if they were from affluent backgrounds and the victim was poor. I've heard countless stories of a rich guy driving drunk and hitting a kid and nothing happening to them in Latin America. If someone was threating your life I think the justice system there would be even more forgiving. There's not much in Colombia that's not for sale, including your freedom if you have enough cash to pay off the right people.
 

9 times outta 10 your gun ends up in the hands of the criminal getting you shot or dead.

Not sure if that is a real stat or you were just throwing a number out there but I know this happens a lot. I'm and Texan as well, and carry my firearm EVERYWHERE except work (where I leave it in the car), government buildings and bars. I usually also have something much more powerful in my car. The problem is for the most part no one wants to take a life, so they hesitate, and criminals get the upperhand. I would absolutely hate to have to do it, but I've been shot at numerous times and that is probably the worst experience one can go through short of actually being hit. I have had too many friends get shot and die. I would not hesitate for a second. It's like one of my friends who is a police officer told me: If you are forced to use a gun to defend yourself, your property or someone else fire until you hit your target and keep firing. Unfortunately it's better to just kill the guy. You don't have to worry about leaving a witness behind to testify against you or sue you, and it's much easier to prove you were in a complete state of panic and fear if the firearm is empty.

[SkyNorth]

Here are two links about firearms you may find of interest:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkj2p9vkk0c
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNvpR26CNPc&feature=fvwp&NR=1
 
 

[Dan Las Vegas]

Waiting for the police?. Good luck with that....most people never report it and go about their business.  My advice to you if you have just been robbed is get the hell out of that area as soon as possible and thank your lucky stars that all that happened was a simple robbery and  you are around to complain about it.
Dan LV

[utopiacowboy]

Approach a trip to Colombia like a commando raid. Get in, do what you need to do and get out. Be on high alert at all times and do not let your guard down for one second.

A lot of your personal safety depends on your girlfriend or wife and her family. In my case, at least in Monteria, most people know they would be dead within 30 minutes if they messed with me. Nevertheless that's not a license to act like an idiot.

[bcc_1_2]

Mudd makes some good points here... but some of the later thoughts are kind of scary. Basically you are flying into someplace very culturally different than we are accustomed to regardless if it is Mexico City, Cali, or San Jose. I actually remember keeping some US currency mixed in with local currency in my back pocket fake wallet and some cheap preloaded cards with nothing left on them. Probably less than $100 bucks and worthless cards but it would briefly look like a score and they'd run off with it ideally.
I definitely think everyone should acknowledge the risk involved with taking a trip like this. I would not hesitate to pay cab fare and the restaurant tab to avoid meeting family in a run down barrio.
Being a college linebacker doesn't mean dick... don't fight... get the hell out of there and AVOID confrontation. I used to think we would retire in her home country of Honduras. Now that she is pregnant I am thinking there is no frickin way I want my kid anywhere near Central America. If anything I'd rather pay to have her family see the kid in a resort town or something on a holiday and then get right back to the United States.