In Medallo again - love and not so love in 24 hours

[Zon]

Well, first off, I am surprised that I missed your A$$

Then, I will say, I am living in Medellin for 4 weeks keeping up with my normal work (not porn) and starting another project (not porn).   My Spanish has gotten worse everyday, because I am working too damn much IN ENGLISH.  So, just because I am here, does not mean I am courting women. Sure I have used CCupid LACupid ... and I have friends that have agencies.  BUT, those things, I have found are more or less a waste of time.  So, I am living my life - playing the hand that God has dealt me - not getting sidetracked, or wasting time.

My ego is fine.  I do not seek to get over blown, and at the same time I do not want to compromise or sacrifice without cause.   I am not a man TRYING to get lucky.

"Number one, is rather gay for a guy close to 50 to be doing that crap!  I've seen a couple pics of you and your face is weathered enough to easily look 50'ish, but who the hell cares and why you continue to make mention of the fact that you are 'younger' than your years seems like it is a an important hope for you or something."

I guess you are oppose to simple introductory conversations,  Where are you from, guess?   What is your occupation,  guess?   These simple icebreakers seem gay?  But, you advocate the use of agencies as if that is completely normal meeting process?

Now listen, dude, if you want to get a membership to AARP several years early, then go right ahead.   If you want to sink in to the TV furniture and eat double, go right ahead.   If you want to concentrate on husbanding and fathering exclusively, then go right ahead - timing is everything.   I aint there yet.  And, that does not mean I am in fantasy land

Me a weathered 50 year old man living a lie for the sake of tight puss - pffff   Come on, man.  That aint me.

But, I can see where such a person would represent the polar opposite to what you represent here on this site.  If I were more inclined I would write more about my interaction with this obviously too young woman just to illustrate the point.   It is natural to assume that I would be a manipulating pig, but the truth is the opposite. Alas, I still did not stay in my apartment learning to knit, or writing love letters on CC  on a Saturday night   LOL  Wasting time?

A 22 year old Russian / Ukrainian would would skin me alive.   A man should know his limitations.    The trip is a convenient excuse to live in a different part of the world for 90 days.   One of these days, and I do not care how long it takes, I probably will meet a woman that will stop me in my tracks.  until then, I put myself in places where women are famed fro their beauty - this is not an affront to marriage, and all that is good, and the American way.

[fathertime]

Well, first off, I am surprised that I missed your A$$

How cute!  I didn't miss your hind quarters, but I did miss those pointy elbows! 

A 22 year old Russian / Ukrainian would would skin me alive.   A man should know his limitations.    The trip is a convenient excuse to live in a different part of the world for 90 days.   One of these days, and I do not care how long it takes, I probably will meet a woman that will stop me in my tracks.  until then, I put myself in places where women are famed fro their beauty - this is not an affront to marriage, and all that is good, and the American way.

oh I don't know man, why couldn't you have success in Ukraine?  I figure you are the limiting factor here, not the ladies!   You are the one making the decision that none of these woman are 'stopping you in your tracks'.  I imagine you will go to Ukraine with a different attitude and find a suitable woman... and then you will forever post caca about those evil lying colombian babes that just didn't measure up to your strict standards!


Fathertime! 

[fathertime]

I guess you are oppose to simple introductory conversations,  Where are you from, guess?   What is your occupation,  guess?   These simple icebreakers seem gay?  But, you advocate the use of agencies as if that is completely normal meeting process?

I don't consider a game of 20 questions about my age as suitable introductory conversations.  It just seems silly and self centered.   In addition, a woman is instantly going to realize that you have some sort of insecurity about your age and is going to almost always guess LOWER just to make sure she isn't the victim of one of those sharpened elbows of yours!    Now I'm just here to help, you DO look your age for the most part, you are as weathered as most other guys close to 50 as am I! 


Fathertime! 

[maritime04]

I am surprised of how little involvement with this culture allot of you have, maybe you can never see without the goggles, I feel like I have to explain too some group of children that Santa clause does not exist.
In Colombia a young women will/can be coerced by her parents to get involved or seek out a relationship with an older man, most of the times these young women will not directly come out and ask you for money or gifts, this would be considered too intresada, or prepago like; but do not fool yourself they will be expected, she will test you out and see what falls from the tree, this is because you are most likely not the only man in her life, and she most likely has a boyfriend or amigovio. You guys are correct; these girls will come from poor barrios normally or a family that has fall on hard times.
The more wealthy girls will use older man to feed their drug/party habits as they do not work, and it is difficult to ask mom and daddy for drug money. Mostly from what I experienced it’s the access to clubs and bars as they get free drugs from “amigovios” and friends if she is pretty enough. Colombian males are cheap skates by nature even if they come from good familes, and they will expect sex w/ out a condom if they go and buy a bottle for 70-80 mill and even for the drugs, gringos are easy targets for abuse, as they are more respectful and reserved, and easy with the money.
It’s kind of sad, mostly because these girls are taught from very early to use these older guys for money to support their families and provide gifts, The sad part is they are so stupid and poor that they feel a sense of accomplishment when they have sucked out 200 or 300 mill from an older man, and do not see it as selling themselves cheaply.
Those relationships are mostly for show, some young hot thing to parade around town, the Colombian guys who do this are usually married, have stable lives and have been doing this for years, some are narco’s other just lucky enough to own a business or two, or maybe a visa and job overseas.
Often I have met a few of those types of girls who genuinely fall in love with these guys, as in some cases they were there “first” man, These guys come off as very generous and charming in the beginning, they show care for the families but as they tire and move on it goes downhill, This is the start of a downward spiral of negative relationships and so forth…
Zon and DL, would call these women damaged ghost, I call them the NORM.
I doubt any man can truly begin to understand the motivations of any women in only a few weeks, that’s why most of us here generalize, I do it, that is until someone says I have known this person for many months, have developed a real relationship that comes with time (not just physical contact). When anyone comes off and says I had a few dates with a girl 20-30 years my younger, BUT she is only interested in my company we all tend to guaff, as much as Zon would gaff at any bright eyes wife-hunters first impressions. So you can understand our point of view when we doubt your ability to even understand what this woman wants in only a months’ time. With that said best of luck…
It is common nature for women in Medellin to see older men as mere walking wallets, regardless of estrato, it is common knowledge that older guys are sought out for their maturity, but this is a 5 year age gap, not 20 or 30. That is the world you enter when you chose to date Colombian women. And live in that world, and let’s be honest we are not after pleasant conversation and a kiss on the cheek (well only zon)
Now we can go to the underbelly of the society, because above was the actually the pleasant side.
Prostitution is a common too see in Colombian, many choose to work overseas in order the mask there work habits. The warts that Zon speaks of are not necessarily warts for many as it has become a non-spoken of issue, many women refer to this lifestyle as “trabajo” because that’s what it is, and for many the only form of economic survival, often only 1 person in the house hold will work when possible, they will earn the money and then vacation till it dries up, and then go do it again. Males in poorer barrios are generally spoiled and lazy and do not work, as figures for divorce rates and single families are not realabile or often just faked, many are single parents. This trend of single provider is common for most estratos, as employment is hard to come by. Many Colombian women from a young age are taught to use their vaginas as a means of living, either through older boyfriends, or prostitution even the so called normal relationship is a “donde estas la plata” or “where is the money”, and send the money. Mother know full well what their daughters are doing, and often encourage the behavior, this is not the norm but it is allowed, only in “chiesmes” around the neighborhood is it mocked or spoken off, but then again mostly by other women, as the men are saving up their cash for their own personal fun.
Older women will get in on the action as it is common for them to sell themselves for casino slot machine money; we are speaking about 5 mill or 10 mill they will charge the younger males (14-16) in the barrio for a quickie.
Not every single Colombian woman is a prostitute, but the culture and environment of it is all around, simple ask a women there if she knows one or has heard of someone doing this or has been approached by friends for this type of work, allot of women would rather sell gum on the bus, BUT the culture of it is there.
Colombian has never been influenced by the same puritan values you have seen in the states, so this may come as a shock to most. But even murder is seen as a forgivable thing, at least in the eyes of those sacarios and pijos who are doing the killing. “La volencia” brought put allot of frustration and violence as means of political recourse and naturally this with the help of the drug traffickers made its way to everyday life. I.e. read Colombian history as an example of how a few horrible people have spread around terror and violence throughout the country for half a century.
Again not every Colombian is an assassin, but the culture is there, you see it; you hear it, you can feel its presence in the streets and see the huge effect it has made.
The lack of values and morals on the part of the younger generation is a problem in Colombia, poverty, violence, drugs and sex should not be ignored. It does not define Colombia, quite contrary Colombia’s constant struggle with these issues and her ability despite all this to move forward and not become a failed state. Many choose to ignore these issues in the hope of luring foreign more investment, more condos more shopping malls, and more gringos and the money they bring.
In Medellin there has always existed the envy from gringos whom party in illeres and see they amazing women paraded by them, they want an invite into the social scene, and feel they can gain access via Spanish and some social connections, and they too will date the models….. It’s the entire rave, exclusive member ship to the VIP only!!!!! Marketing at its best, to the new crowd of travelers, you can imagine how much respect I have for these folks. You notice how it’s not only is she 20, but from poblado ect…ect…like something needs to be proven how she really wants me for me!! I guess that’s the new thing proving your GF is no barrio girl and you have a girl who actually chooses to be with you or something like that. If you need to prove something, it normally means it is not true…
I lived there for some time, and what I describe is the ugly side, but it the reason why guys like Zon go out to dinner with 19 year olds, and why allot of men call the place a “paradise”, I took full advantage of this when I was single and living there, I knew what I was doing and what it was about, and zon is correct people will play the hand god is has dealt them, but there is virtue in understand your influence and the part we play in this larger picture. Sometimes one just needs to grow up, and see’s the world differently.

[Zon]

oh I don't know man, why couldn't you have success in Ukraine?  I figure you are the limiting factor here, not the ladies!   You are the one making the decision that none of these woman are 'stopping you in your tracks'.  I imagine you will go to Ukraine with a different attitude and find a suitable woman... and then you will forever post caca about those evil lying colombian babes that just didn't measure up to your strict standards!

It is possible.  It is also possible that I find a very nice human being here in Colombia - just very unlikely that would happen in Cali or Medellin.   And, why do you think I would post negatives about Colombia, or its women?  I love Colombia.  Almost without exception, I have been given friendship and joy by the people here.  I say this despite all the warts, of which there are many:  two days ago I witnessed an armed robbery. Two nights ago the woman I was with had her purse stolen.   I see an ambulance with lights on, and the traffic does not move, or care.  I go to a foundation in the mountains to give money and help children, and I see complete poverty without hopelessness on the children's faces, and then at night a party with Saudis, DJ's flown in from Europe, and a line of fancy cars, and other signs of imbalanced wealth distribution.  Colombia is a study in contrasts.


And, Mari that was an excellent post, irrespective the fact that you, like FT, assume I am running around with a pocket full of condoms like a child in an Easter egg contest:)

[Zon]

and to add a little levity ... here is a fun little video.   If you are lucky the song might stick in your head today


http://vimeo.com/37003302

[Micky]

M4 -

One of the best posts ever.  I do not know how it will be received by others,  but I do appreciate the time and effort that you put into it.  I think that there will be a good number of guys that will see it as a negative commentary,  instead of what it is - an eye opening,  unvarnished look at life here as it is,  as in -  All that glitters is not gold.
Super post !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Zon -

I think that M4 actually gives you props for being one of the few that have a more realistic view of Colombia.  Forget the pocket full of condoms,  have a pocket full of pesos.  I have you up to three cups of cafe for me.

Micky
 　

[fathertime]

 


And, Mari that was an excellent post, irrespective the fact that you, like FT, assume I am running around with a pocket full of condoms like a child in an Easter egg contest:)

To be earnest I was assuming you were not using a condom, especially considering that event that happened a few years ago.

It is possible.  It is also possible that I find a very nice human being here in Colombia - just very unlikely that would happen in Cali or Medellin.   And, why do you think I would post negatives about Colombia, or its women?  I love Colombia.  Almost without exception, I have been given friendship and joy by the people here.  I say this despite all the warts, of which there are many: 

I still believe that you are the one with the excessive warts, not the preponderance of the Colombian ladies.   Maybe you are just not capable or interested in seeing this. 


I think when you go to Ukraine you will fare better with the ladies.


Fathertime!

[Zon]

To be earnest I was assuming you were not using a condom, especially considering that event that happened a few years ago.

In the old days, I would have thought you were an A$$hole, but now I see this as just a love tap.

I still believe that you are the one with the excessive warts, not the preponderance of the Colombian ladies.   Maybe you are just not capable or interested in seeing this. 


I think when you go to Ukraine you will fare better with the ladies.

Read Mari's hard and truthful posts.  He is Colombian and lived here.  And, Micky, again, a guy who has spent a ton of time in Colombia.   Then, my comment that I would not say negatives, but this place has warts (not a big surprise) and you seem to read that I say Colombian women have warts?!?!?  WTF     I think you may have a rose colored view of things.  You seem happy, but I don't get the impression you spent more than 90 days in Colombia before proposing - be happy because YOU GOT LUCKY


You know, since I have been here, I have actually spent more time with non colombianas - One girl from Switzerland another from Australia - both 30 year olds.

[fathertime]

In the old days, I would have thought you were an A$$hole, but now I see this as just a love tap.



Read Mari's hard and truthful posts.  He is Colombian and lived here.  And, Micky, again, a guy who has spent a ton of time in Colombia.   Then, my comment that I would not say negatives, but this place has warts (not a big surprise) and you seem to read that I say Colombian women have warts?!?!?  WTF     I think you may have a rose colored view of things.  You seem happy, but I don't get the impression you spent more than 90 days in Colombia before proposing - be happy because YOU GOT LUCKY


You know, since I have been here, I have actually spent more time with non colombianas - One girl from Switzerland another from Australia - both 30 year olds.

well Zon, based on what i've read, there is a big difference between Maritime and you...It seems to me that he has himself together to the point where I take what he says and really believe he is accurately reporting, whereas when I see your writings, I get the impression that you are such a mess yourself that many of your judgements don't appear to be fair, even if some of the overlap what others say.   As I've said many times, I believe YOU are the one stopping you from finding a woman, for whatever reason.   There are plenty to be found and you are choosing to focus on ladies that  don't make sense.  I predict you change your attitude when you hit Ukraine, which will be the main reason you find a woman there. 


Fathertime! 

[fathertime]

 

Now listen, dude, if you want to get a membership to AARP several years early, then go right ahead.   If you want to sink in to the TV furniture and eat double, go right ahead.   If you want to concentrate on husbanding and fathering exclusively, then go right ahead - timing is everything.   I aint there yet.  And, that does not mean I am in fantasy land

 .

Hey Zon!   I don't know why being married and 'husbanding and fathering' means a person is joining the AARP early.   I realize you aren't there yet.  A question could be will you ever be there?  Since you acknowledge that you are not there yet, I think you should give the colombian ladies every break and admit that you have a lot of maturing to do! 


Fathertime! 

[Zon]

I realize you aren't there yet.  A question could be will you ever be there?  Since you acknowledge that you are not there yet, I think you should give the colombian ladies every break and admit that you have a lot of maturing to do


Fair Enough. 

Medallo - But, I need not be blindfolded either.   "Give Every break" is way too much.   That is naive - especially in THIS town.   A good healthy balance, maybe a more hopeful outlook ... I agree.    But, the bottom line really, is that I am only now able to communicate in Spanish well enough, and spend the necessary time to meet socially with professionals and women from better families and environments.   In these case, by the way, I am being introduced to nice ladies (very attractive. usually with a little baggage, but of high quality nonetheless 30 - 35.  It feels more normal for serious consideration).   

Other smaller towns - It is much different in the provinces. I will write on this later.

[utopiacowboy]

I am surprised of how little involvement with this culture allot of you have, maybe you can never see without the goggles, I feel like I have to explain too some group of children that Santa clause does not exist.
In Colombia a young women will/can be coerced by her parents to get involved or seek out a relationship with an older man, most of the times these young women will not directly come out and ask you for money or gifts, this would be considered too intresada, or prepago like; but do not fool yourself they will be expected, she will test you out and see what falls from the tree, this is because you are most likely not the only man in her life, and she most likely has a boyfriend or amigovio. You guys are correct; these girls will come from poor barrios normally or a family that has fall on hard times.
The more wealthy girls will use older man to feed their drug/party habits as they do not work, and it is difficult to ask mom and daddy for drug money. Mostly from what I experienced it’s the access to clubs and bars as they get free drugs from “amigovios” and friends if she is pretty enough. Colombian males are cheap skates by nature even if they come from good familes, and they will expect sex w/ out a condom if they go and buy a bottle for 70-80 mill and even for the drugs, gringos are easy targets for abuse, as they are more respectful and reserved, and easy with the money.
It’s kind of sad, mostly because these girls are taught from very early to use these older guys for money to support their families and provide gifts, The sad part is they are so stupid and poor that they feel a sense of accomplishment when they have sucked out 200 or 300 mill from an older man, and do not see it as selling themselves cheaply.
Those relationships are mostly for show, some young hot thing to parade around town, the Colombian guys who do this are usually married, have stable lives and have been doing this for years, some are narco’s other just lucky enough to own a business or two, or maybe a visa and job overseas.
Often I have met a few of those types of girls who genuinely fall in love with these guys, as in some cases they were there “first” man, These guys come off as very generous and charming in the beginning, they show care for the families but as they tire and move on it goes downhill, This is the start of a downward spiral of negative relationships and so forth…
Zon and DL, would call these women damaged ghost, I call them the NORM.
I doubt any man can truly begin to understand the motivations of any women in only a few weeks, that’s why most of us here generalize, I do it, that is until someone says I have known this person for many months, have developed a real relationship that comes with time (not just physical contact). When anyone comes off and says I had a few dates with a girl 20-30 years my younger, BUT she is only interested in my company we all tend to guaff, as much as Zon would gaff at any bright eyes wife-hunters first impressions. So you can understand our point of view when we doubt your ability to even understand what this woman wants in only a months’ time. With that said best of luck…
It is common nature for women in Medellin to see older men as mere walking wallets, regardless of estrato, it is common knowledge that older guys are sought out for their maturity, but this is a 5 year age gap, not 20 or 30. That is the world you enter when you chose to date Colombian women. And live in that world, and let’s be honest we are not after pleasant conversation and a kiss on the cheek (well only zon)
Now we can go to the underbelly of the society, because above was the actually the pleasant side.
Prostitution is a common too see in Colombian, many choose to work overseas in order the mask there work habits. The warts that Zon speaks of are not necessarily warts for many as it has become a non-spoken of issue, many women refer to this lifestyle as “trabajo” because that’s what it is, and for many the only form of economic survival, often only 1 person in the house hold will work when possible, they will earn the money and then vacation till it dries up, and then go do it again. Males in poorer barrios are generally spoiled and lazy and do not work, as figures for divorce rates and single families are not realabile or often just faked, many are single parents. This trend of single provider is common for most estratos, as employment is hard to come by. Many Colombian women from a young age are taught to use their vaginas as a means of living, either through older boyfriends, or prostitution even the so called normal relationship is a “donde estas la plata” or “where is the money”, and send the money. Mother know full well what their daughters are doing, and often encourage the behavior, this is not the norm but it is allowed, only in “chiesmes” around the neighborhood is it mocked or spoken off, but then again mostly by other women, as the men are saving up their cash for their own personal fun.
Older women will get in on the action as it is common for them to sell themselves for casino slot machine money; we are speaking about 5 mill or 10 mill they will charge the younger males (14-16) in the barrio for a quickie.
Not every single Colombian woman is a prostitute, but the culture and environment of it is all around, simple ask a women there if she knows one or has heard of someone doing this or has been approached by friends for this type of work, allot of women would rather sell gum on the bus, BUT the culture of it is there.
Colombian has never been influenced by the same puritan values you have seen in the states, so this may come as a shock to most. But even murder is seen as a forgivable thing, at least in the eyes of those sacarios and pijos who are doing the killing. “La volencia” brought put allot of frustration and violence as means of political recourse and naturally this with the help of the drug traffickers made its way to everyday life. I.e. read Colombian history as an example of how a few horrible people have spread around terror and violence throughout the country for half a century.
Again not every Colombian is an assassin, but the culture is there, you see it; you hear it, you can feel its presence in the streets and see the huge effect it has made.
The lack of values and morals on the part of the younger generation is a problem in Colombia, poverty, violence, drugs and sex should not be ignored. It does not define Colombia, quite contrary Colombia’s constant struggle with these issues and her ability despite all this to move forward and not become a failed state. Many choose to ignore these issues in the hope of luring foreign more investment, more condos more shopping malls, and more gringos and the money they bring.
In Medellin there has always existed the envy from gringos whom party in illeres and see they amazing women paraded by them, they want an invite into the social scene, and feel they can gain access via Spanish and some social connections, and they too will date the models….. It’s the entire rave, exclusive member ship to the VIP only!!!!! Marketing at its best, to the new crowd of travelers, you can imagine how much respect I have for these folks. You notice how it’s not only is she 20, but from poblado ect…ect…like something needs to be proven how she really wants me for me!! I guess that’s the new thing proving your GF is no barrio girl and you have a girl who actually chooses to be with you or something like that. If you need to prove something, it normally means it is not true…
I lived there for some time, and what I describe is the ugly side, but it the reason why guys like Zon go out to dinner with 19 year olds, and why allot of men call the place a “paradise”, I took full advantage of this when I was single and living there, I knew what I was doing and what it was about, and zon is correct people will play the hand god is has dealt them, but there is virtue in understand your influence and the part we play in this larger picture. Sometimes one just needs to grow up, and see’s the world differently.

This may be the most accurate and honest post about Colombia that I've ever seen on PL. IMHO, absolutely dead on.

[maritime04]

At the risk of not getting personal, it’s your choice when and if you want to settle down.
Do you honestly think that you can truly communicate well enough to have an understanding and insight of the people around you? Often because of the envy there is a rush to want to join this elite club of Colombians whom wander” illares” on a Saturday night, as I do not think and have never said you wander the streets with a pocket full of condoms, it is my opinion that you feel a basic understanding of Spanish will help you assimilate into this scene and access to “higher class women” despite your continued denial, it is always about the women!. As I personally doubt you can achieve this, nor why anyone would want too for the following.
I have always been wary of wealthy Colombians, and of the 10% in the food chain, I never felt a reason or desire to interact with them, only to share the same buildings.
One has to remember that the “Barrios popular”, did not create themselves they are a result of high employment and LOW wages, as you yourself have seen the income disparity, We can all agree about the facts of “economic life”, but it’s the general feeling of the wealthy that these people are mere obstacles to progress and burdens on their society, many simple do not even see these people as human begins, just maids, taxi drivers and cheap labor to exploit. I do not even think you comprehend the type of people you wish to surround yourself with; despite this I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor to be accepted into the upper social circle of Colombia (Medellin). Perhaps soon the park illares envy that I witnessed will become your reality…… and you will no longer be a part of the gringo crowd on the outside drooling over the models seen at basilica, or trida, but a member of the social scene surrounding yourself the beautiful people, WITH choices!

[Kiltboy1]

This may be the most accurate and honest post about Colombia that I've ever seen on PL. IMHO, absolutely dead on.

Agree with UT
 
Best Post ever on how it really is in Colombia !!!!!
 
KB

[Researcher]

  I agree. Great post M4 and it just doesn't describe Colombia. It is pretty much the framework for any 3rd world country. Many things in common. For me, dating women in places like Colombia requires a different mindset based more on the "law of the jungle". Get to know people by observing from the corner of your eye. In other words don't take things at face value. Many gringos get head over heels too quick and put on the blinders. Big mistake. I learned early that I was never too much in love with a woman that I wasn't able to kick her to the curb. There was always another one or three right around the corner. I still managed to have alot of fun even though I wore out my curb kickin' boots....


                                         


   Researcher

[Zon]

1, props on your post are well deserved.


2,

At the risk of not getting personal, it’s your choice when and if you want to settle down.



Do you honestly think that you can truly communicate well enough to have an understanding and insight of the people around you? Often because of the envy there is a rush to want to join this elite club of Colombians whom wander” illares” on a Saturday night, as I do not think and have never said you wander the streets with a pocket full of condoms, it is my opinion that you feel a basic understanding of Spanish will help you assimilate into this scene and access to “higher class women” despite your continued denial, it is always about the women!. As I personally doubt you can achieve this, nor why anyone would want too for the following.

I have always been wary of wealthy Colombians, and of the 10% in the food chain, I never felt a reason or desire to interact with them, only to share the same buildings.
One has to remember that the “Barrios popular”, did not create themselves they are a result of high employment and LOW wages, as you yourself have seen the income disparity, We can all agree about the facts of “economic life”, but it’s the general feeling of the wealthy that these people are mere obstacles to progress and burdens on their society, many simple do not even see these people as human begins, just maids, taxi drivers and cheap labor to exploit. I do not even think you comprehend the type of people you wish to surround yourself with; despite this I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor to be accepted into the upper social circle of Colombia (Medellin). Perhaps soon the park illares envy that I witnessed will become your reality…… and you will no longer be a part of the gringo crowd on the outside drooling over the models seen at basilica, or trida, but a member of the social scene surrounding yourself the beautiful people, WITH choices!

It is difficult to talk about Colombia as if it were one place.  The coast is different.  Bogota is different.   Medellin is different.  And the smaller pueblos are different still.

FT is correct when he suggests that for men looking for wives (especially with limited time), one has to have a hopeful, trusting, and all-will-work-out-for-the-best outlook.  And, Mari raises an excellent point too:  even after an AM learns some Spanish and can communicate, that does not translate to understanding the subtleties of things, the custombres.  But, honestly, how many AM who seek a wife ever can realistically achieve this? 

Medellin is my least favorite city in Colombia (and the topic of this thread).   Above Mari posted about the upper class in Medellin, and I exactly agree.   90% of the time it feels like a scene from SCARFACE.  ( I know there are exceptions, but they are great exceptions) I found Cali to be quite different, and the people more sincere, welcoming, open and curios - even moreso in Armenia and other similar places.

When I say an upper strata girl, I am not picturing one of the girls at Envy.   I am simply referencing a woman coming from a good family, with a career or job, not in a desperate condition. I am NOT referencing the RICH women of Colombia, and especially Medellin.  They do not need, or even perhaps want, a man.

[Zon]

Regarding this particular trip ...

I have worked too much.

I have dated only a couple times, and only once a Colombiana ( una Caliena)   Actually, I am sort of turned off with Paisas (as if that is not already abundantly clear).   I was asked yesterday by a friend if I would like to meet a very nice girl, who is beautiful and who is seeking a nice guy (I can already feel what you guys are thinking about ME being a "nice guy). I found myself saying, NO THANKS ... simply because of the Paisa thing.   I would rather fish in different waters.

Interestingly, I went out with a woman from Australia and another woman from USA while in Medellin

Took a woman who is way to young for me out on two dates (that was the Caliena).  I thought it best to just kiss her on the cheek (mouth), but stop it there.  At least we had sincere chemistry and she was not a punta - and that is a step in the right direction.

This is the first time I have lived in Colombia where I am ready to go home early.   Safe to say this is my last visit to Medellin.   When, and if, I come back to Colombia, I would like to spend time in Bucaramunga and Armenia exclusivo.

That's about it.

[fathertime]

 

FT is correct when he suggests that for men looking for wives (especially with limited time), one has to have a hopeful, trusting, and all-will-work-out-for-the-best outlook.  And, Mari raises an excellent point too:  even after an AM learns some Spanish and can communicate, that does not translate to understanding the subtleties of things, the custombres.  But, honestly, how many AM who seek a wife ever can realistically achieve this? 
 

In order to have a good marriage it is not necessary to master every subtle thing about spanish although it is a goal well worth shooting for.  Don't use the excuse of 'i'll never learn it all' so why bother to put out the effort at all.  It makes a big difference if you know most of what is going on vs not having much of a clue, which in reality is probably where you are still at now. 

...ironically as i have begun to take flight in spanish, my wife's english has also blossomed and the need for knowing spanish has been less urgent.

Now old zonny given your goals, you need to use more of your free time really focusing on learning spanish...or maybe you've fried your brain already and it would rather join the AARP prematurely!     Personally I think other interpersonal traits are as important or more important than an advanced level of spanish. 

Fathertime! 

[Zon]

FT - you are mis-firing.


I think it is GOOD for a person seriously wanting to spend time in Colombia, Panama, or Costa Rica to learn enough Spanish to follow the flow of things, and not be seen as 100% lazy.   That is where I am now, and until something ELSE happens, this is as far as I need to go.     It is M4 that suggests that it is almost impossible for a non-Colombiano to understand the environment.

[fathertime]

FT - you are mis-firing.


I think it is GOOD for a person seriously wanting to spend time in Colombia, Panama, or Costa Rica to learn enough Spanish to follow the flow of things, and not be seen as 100% lazy.   That is where I am now, and until something ELSE happens, this is as far as I need to go.     It is M4 that suggests that it is almost impossible for a non-Colombiano to understand the environment.

i don't know old zonninski, it seems to me that you have only scratched the surface with your spanish communication and given the types of goals you have stated, it would seem to me that you should be way more focused on learning the language... i mean you seem to have a lot of time when all that passive income of yours comes pouring in...why not use it in a more productive way before the AARP letters start piling up in your mailbox!  [size=78%]  [/size]


Fathertime! 

[Calipro]

I am surprised of how little involvement with this culture allot of you have, maybe you can never see without the goggles, I feel like I have to explain too some group of children that Santa clause does not exist.

No sense really in even trying to explain it...it is what it is...guys looking to find a wife in a short amount of time here are going to have to keep their wits about them and have a bit of luck on their side to have any great deal of success with a long term relationship....the pitfalls are obvious and have been discussed ad nauseum.

The minute a guy announces he is looking for a wife...he runs the risk of inadvertently attracting the exact type of woman he is trying to avoid.

In Colombia a young women will/can be coerced by her parents to get involved or seek out a relationship with an older man, most of the times these young women will not directly come out and ask you for money or gifts, this would be considered too intresada, or prepago like; but do not fool yourself they will be expected, she will test you out and see what falls from the tree, this is because you are most likely not the only man in her life, and she most likely has a boyfriend or amigovio. You guys are correct; these girls will come from poor barrios normally or a family that has fall on hard times.

This is the the worst part of Colombian culture.....watching a poor family put pressure on the prettiest and often youngest daughter to bring home money and never asking what she had to do to get it..... is "horrible" and I stay clear of these types of families. The advice I give the girl is that they would be better off without a their family and to find a guy that really cares for them and never look back.

The more wealthy girls will use older man to feed their drug/party habits as they do not work, and it is difficult to ask mom and daddy for drug money. Mostly from what I experienced it’s the access to clubs and bars as they get free drugs from “amigovios” and friends if she is pretty enough. Colombian males are cheap skates by nature even if they come from good familes, and they will expect sex w/ out a condom if they go and buy a bottle for 70-80 mill and even for the drugs, gringos are easy targets for abuse, as they are more respectful and reserved, and easy with the money.
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The drug culture in Colombia is so small compared to the US that I have never found drugs to be a motivating factor in my colombian relationships...personally speaking. I strive for mutually satisfying sexual relationships so even if I just invite a a chick over for dinner at home and to watch TV...at some point we usually end up in the bedroom.  Nothing wrong with being amigovios in my book....relationships here so much cheaper if you are not demanding exclusivity in a relationship and some women will give it without even asking.....and isn't it better that way anyway.

It’s kind of sad, mostly because these girls are taught from very early to use these older guys for money to support their families and provide gifts, The sad part is they are so stupid and poor that they feel a sense of accomplishment when they have sucked out 200 or 300 mill from an older man, and do not see it as selling themselves cheaply.
Those relationships are mostly for show, some young hot thing to parade around town, the Colombian guys who do this are usually married, have stable lives and have been doing this for years, some are narco’s other just lucky enough to own a business or two, or maybe a visa and job overseas.
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Staying away from really poor chicks from low life families is always good advice. I normally date women that are half my age here....some guys will not have a problem doing this here if they are in good shape....the sloppier guys will not be able to pull this off without bringing something else to the table....this is something that I really don't like to think about much...after all who really wants to spend quality time with a chick that really isn't into sleeping with you. But for the guys that don't know the difference between good and bad sex...I guess it is an option.

Often I have met a few of those types of girls who genuinely fall in love with these guys, as in some cases they were there “first” man, These guys come off as very generous and charming in the beginning, they show care for the families but as they tire and move on it goes downhill, This is the start of a downward spiral of negative relationships and so forth…
Zon and DL, would call these women damaged ghost, I call them the NORM.

As a rule I just stay clear of the families unless I live with the chick and then I keep them at arms length...just stay out of the families problems and do not help them out in anyway or the requests will never end....if the girl can't separate her relationship with you from her family then dump her. I absolutely refuse to help a family that brought a child into this world and can't even provide her with a higher education to give her a fighting chance in life and then expect her to get them something for nothing.
The upper class colombian family[/size]  (one that actually provides a college education)  presents a whole new set of problems and it is just best if you can keep your relationship a secret as long as possible because the best that you can hope for is that they do not interfere with your relationship and most of the upper class families will not be any to pleased that their daughter is dating a gringo twice her age. Oh, and the minute she moves in with you they will cut her off completely (seems to be an unwritten law here) so you better really care for her because you will be paying for everything from this point on....amigovios is sounding pretty good right about now. Exclusivity in a relationship along with easy access is what costs you here....if you can some how just keep things casual it is soooo much less expensive.
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[/size]I doubt any man can truly begin to understand the motivations of any women in only a few weeks, that’s why most of us here generalize, I do it, that is until someone says I have known this person for many months, have developed a real relationship that comes with time (not just physical contact). When anyone comes off and says I had a few dates with a girl 20-30 years my younger, BUT she is only interested in my company we all tend to guaff, as much as Zon would gaff at any bright eyes wife-hunters first impressions. So you can understand our point of view when we doubt your ability to even understand what this woman wants in only a months’ time. With that said best of luck…It is common nature for women in Medellin to see older men as mere walking wallets, regardless of estrato, it is common knowledge that older guys are sought out for their maturity, but this is a 5 year age gap, not 20 or 30. That is the world you enter when you chose to date Colombian women. And live in that world, and let’s be honest we are not after pleasant conversation and a kiss on the cheek (well only zon)Now we can go to the underbelly of the society, because above was the actually the pleasant side.
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[/size]Some guys just can't do the 20 plus year age gap because younger women are not going to find themselves sexually attracted to an unattractive guy.....the best advice I can give is forget about age for a minute and ask yourself just what type of woman can you reasonably hope to attract given your looks and physical shape.
[/size]For me sexual attraction increases my enjoyment in all of my interactions with a particular woman  including conversation and I believe it is the same with women.....call me shallow Hal....but a really ugly chick has to know some damn good jokes before I'd spend an appreciable amount of time chatting her up. And I think women are pretty much the same way. Bottom line is you can pretty much judge a relationship by how big the wet spot is in your bed....unless of course you really love a women that can play a mean game of chess....which is much harder to find in Colombia that a hot chick in Colombia half my age that enjoys sleeping with me. jajaja

 

[/size]Prostitution is a common too see in Colombian, many choose to work overseas in order the mask there work habits. The warts that Zon speaks of are not necessarily warts for many as it has become a non-spoken of issue, many women refer to this lifestyle as “trabajo” because that’s what it is, and for many the only form of economic survival, often only 1 person in the house hold will work when possible, they will earn the money and then vacation till it dries up, and then go do it again. Males in poorer barrios are generally spoiled and lazy and do not work, as figures for divorce rates and single families are not realabile or often just faked, many are single parents. This trend of single provider is common for most estratos, as employment is hard to come by. Many Colombian women from a young age are taught to use their vaginas as a means of living, either through older boyfriends, or prostitution even the so called normal relationship is a “donde estas la plata” or “where is the money”, and send the money. Mother know full well what their daughters are doing, and often encourage the behavior, this is not the norm but it is allowed, only in “chiesmes” around the neighborhood is it mocked or spoken off, but then again mostly by other women, as the men are saving up their cash for their own personal fun.Older women will get in on the action as it is common for them to sell themselves for casino slot machine money; we are speaking about 5 mill or 10 mill they will charge the younger males (14-16) in the barrio for a quickie.Not every single Colombian woman is a prostitute, but the culture and environment of it is all around, simple ask a women there if she knows one or has heard of someone doing this or has been approached by friends for this type of work, allot of women would rather sell gum on the bus, BUT the culture of it is there.Colombian has never been influenced by the same puritan values you have seen in the states, so this may come as a shock to most. But even murder is seen as a forgivable thing, at least in the eyes of those sacarios and pijos who are doing the killing. “La volencia” brought put allot of frustration and violence as means of political recourse and naturally this with the help of the drug traffickers made its way to everyday life. I.e. read Colombian history as an example of how a few horrible people have spread around terror and violence throughout the country for half a century.Again not every Colombian is an assassin, but the culture is there, you see it; you hear it, you can feel its presence in the streets and see the huge effect it has made.The lack of values and morals on the part of the younger generation is a problem in Colombia, poverty, violence, drugs and sex should not be ignored. It does not define Colombia, quite contrary Colombia’s constant struggle with these issues and her ability despite all this to move forward and not become a failed state. Many choose to ignore these issues in the hope of luring foreign more investment, more condos more shopping malls, and more gringos and the money they bring.In Medellin there has always existed the envy from gringos whom party in illeres and see they amazing women paraded by them, they want an invite into the social scene, and feel they can gain access via Spanish and some social connections, and they too will date the models….. It’s the entire rave, exclusive member ship to the VIP only!!!!! Marketing at its best, to the new crowd of travelers, you can imagine how much respect I have for these folks. You notice how it’s not only is she 20, but from poblado ect…ect…like something needs to be proven how she really wants me for me!! I guess that’s the new thing proving your GF is no barrio girl and you have a girl who actually chooses to be with you or something like that. If you need to prove something, it normally means it is not true…I lived there for some time, and what I describe is the ugly side, but it the reason why guys like Zon go out to dinner with 19 year olds, and why allot of men call the place a “paradise”, I took full advantage of this when I was single and living there, I knew what I was doing and what it was about, and zon is correct people will play the hand god is has dealt them, but there is virtue in understand your influence and the part.we play in this larger picture. Sometimes one just needs to grow up, and see’s the world differently.

Sure there are bad people in Colombia just like everywhere and prostitution is more pervasive than in the US but who really doesn't know that already. You really don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that if a chick asks for an iphone after you have slept with her a few times there is a problem.


No sense in really complaining about it.....just take your wounded pride and walk away....because there are plenty of women here that are into mutually satisfying relationships that do not require financial incentives.


Things shouldn't even start to get costly until you are in a mutually exclusive relationship...which means she is living with you....and then you will pretty much be paying for everything...so you better make sure it is true love. It's too bad that the wife hunters don't really have much of a chance to date without having to jump right into the most costly and challenging part of the relationship.

[maritime04]

Everyone has the right to their own opinions, and they often see what they want. No harm in that.
I will disagree with your opinion on the drugs, as access to marijuana is simply VERY affordable and EVERYWHERE especially amongst the younger kids, and girls. Nightclubs, bars, even in the parks it is very common to smell it there. Also with the hard core club addicts comes the pills ect…
While I was living in Medellin I came across an older retired ex-pat who had just moved there, this man loved to boast about the 20 year olds who would visit him in his apartment for sex, he had a model girlfriend from Bogota of course (who he was never with) and many lovers, (whom we never saw with him). Anytime I would see this man he was always ALONE, despite this fact he continued to boast about his free women, whom would visit him because they wanted his “cock”, or company. Things went about like that for 1-2 years, till he disappeared from the scene, until he showed up again looking like a mess and obviously depressed, he opened up about how a recent change in his economic fortune forced him to relocate back to the US, and he could now only visit Medellin. Apparently those lovely young women had discovered the combination to his safe, and while he was sleeping they were stealing a few hundred thousand pesos at a time, you see this guy thought he was smart by bringing huge cash and exchanging it into pesos when the rates were good. The theft had continue for so long, and left such a stain on his ego he left the country, that and the stock market crash of 2008. At the time, i just thought he was a lair or a crazy person, and really did not pay much attention to him.
Calipro reminded me of him. So I thought I would share the story, I did not use names, because when this guy was not bragging about his free sex he was a pleasant person.
Calipro paints a picture as if Colombia was suffering from a male shortage, and that finding willing 20 year old attractive guy with working equipment was a difficult problem for most women?
What I described was how I saw it, it’s my opinion and it goes for players, wife-hunters, whore mongers and the delusional.

[Zon]

Everyone has a right to his own opinion - I could not agree more.

I made a point upthread that it is difficult and inaccurate to treat Colombia as one place - it has many very different places with different tendencies.  FT, made the good point that people who are looking for a wife really need a positive and hopeful mindset, and given the dishonesty and problems that do exist here, for men with little time ... dumb luck plays a bigger than smaller role.

And M4 brings up a constant truth that in Medellin, especially in Poblado but to some extent everywhere here in Medellin, it is somewhat embarrassing to be gringo because of all the poop.   I have gone out with 7 - 8 girls in Medellin that were not puntas - 0% - and the people looked at us like I was buying puss ... it made me uncomfortable and the girl too.  Even when we went to places like Envigado o Sabenata

Calipro has more experience living, dating, marrying, and playing with Colombianas than all gringos put together LOL   He is not a monger - I can recognize them when I see em.   He is honest with himself, and what he is looking for / enjoys.   There are plenty of women - young women half his age - that are fairly available to him and others here.  And, that seems to bug some people here.  Would it be this way if all these women was living in the USA?  NO.    Is it a function of poverty? Partly; but it is also a function of gender in Colombia - men are more important than women TO COLOMBIANS (look at the way the mother's treat sons versus daughters.  Look at the lack of community interference with a man hits a woman)  My point is often times people make judgments starting with the question, how would things be if the women was in the USA.   Calipro, because he has lived in Colombia for a long time, starts from a different position:  he asks what is normal for me here in Colombia.  The answers are totally different.  So almost all of you guys are playing a "Home Game"  - others are playing an "Away Game" - and others are playing a combination thereof.

====

FT - you fill in too many blanks.  Sometimes you say I emphasize Spanish too much, other times you suggest not enough.   And, I doubt I have ever talked about me "passive income" LOL   


 

[Calipro]

Everyone has the right to their own opinions, and they often see what they want. No harm in that.
I will disagree with your opinion on the , as access to marijuana is simply VERY affordable and EVERYWHERE especially amongst the younger kids, and . Nightclubs, bars, even in the parks it is very common to smell it there. Also with the hard core club addicts comes the pills ect…

My opinions about colombia and  use are based entirely on my own anecdotal experiences and I have to admit that I do not do nor have I ever had an interest in using illicit  which might help explain my lack of contact with them...but dated plenty of women in the states up until I went to Colombia at the age of 35 and started dating more Colombianas than gringas and comparing the two is not even close....I have known ten times more women in the states that use illicit drugs than in Colombia....and I get the feeling even now that drug use in the states is more socially acceptable than in Colombia. I have never had a girl that I was going out with in Colombia use cocaine around me or ever ask me for cocaine...I have had plenty in the states. Out of well over a hundred colombianas that I have dated and lived with over the past 15 years I can only think of 6 or 7 that smoked marijuana around me.

While I was living in Medellin I came across an older retired ex-pat who had just moved there, this  loved to boast about the 20 year olds who would visit him in his apartment for sex, he had a model girlfriend from Bogota of course (who he was never with) and many lovers, (whom we never  with him). Anytime I would see this man he was always ALONE, despite this fact he continued to boast about his free women, whom would visit him because they wanted his “cock”, or company. Things went about like that for 1-2 years, till he disappeared from the scene, until he showed up again looking like a mess and obviously depressed, he opened up about how a recent change in his economic fortune forced him to relocate back to the US, and he could now only visit Medellin.
[/size]

Sounds like the guy was just yanking your chain...but couldn't you just look at the guy and size him up? Looks...style, dress and demeanor and just kind of guess what quality of chicks he would be able to pull whether or not you ever saw him with a hot chick.

Apparently those lovely young women had discovered the combination to his safe, and while he was sleeping they were stealing a few hundred thousand pesos at a time, you see this guy thought he was smart by bringing huge cash and exchanging it into pesos when the rates were good. The theft had continue for so long, and left such a stain on his ego he left the country, that and the stock market crash of 2008. At the time, i just thought he was a lair or a crazy person, and really did not pay much attention to him.

Now I think you are yanking my chain...jajaja


Let me point out a few gaping holes in your plot.


First of all there is no easy way to bring huge amounts of cash into Colombia especially in dollars. This is highly regulated and watched by both the US and Colombian governments.
If you bring ten thousand or more dollars with you into colombia you have to declare it because if you don't and they find it when they check you and your bags they will confiscate it. If you do declare it you are going to have to have a pretty good reason for bringing that type of cash into colombia because the are going to suspect it is drug money and even if you do some how make it past customs after declaring it that is one hell of a long drive from rio negro to medellin with a [snip] load of cash....I have balls of steal but if your friend did this he has balls of iron. jajaja


Next even the major banks do not offer exchange rates on cash US dollars that are as good as what you can get out of an ATM (the small exchange houses offer the worst rates)  and to get the best exchange rates you have to show a US passport and all the major Colombian banks that even give an exchange rate close to what you get at the ATM all limit you to $2500 a month max. and then you have to wait until the next month to exchange another $2500...the whole story sounds rather stupid even if we were to believe his girlfriends stole a lot of his money before he noticed it missing. !!!
My colombian bank limits me to wire transfers of $25,000 a year but there is no limit on how much I can walk in and deposit....keeping that kind of money in your house is stupid and letting your girlfriends know about it sounds almost suicidal.

Calipro reminded me of him. So I thought I would share the story, I did not use names, because when this guy was not bragging about his free sex he was a pleasant person.
Calipro  a picture as if Colombia was suffering from a male shortage, and that finding willing 20 year old attractive guy with working equipment was a difficult problem for most women?
What I described was how I saw it, it’s my opinion and it goes for players, wife-hunters, whore mongers and the delusional.

I don't think I have much in common with your friend.


But, Yes, when I hit on super hot colombianas in their 20's I do have competition....interestingly enough almost none of it is from attractive 20 something colombianos...mostly colombianos in their 30's and 40's that have something going for them.


The vast majority of 20 year old colombianos are dirt poor losers...even if they can manage to dress themselves with any style...... 99% of them don't even have a car let alone a kick ass pad to take them to.....I hate to break it to you but really hot chicks do not want to picked up in a cab to be taken to a cheap love motel. jajaja


Hey don't get mad at me...I didn't invent this game....the colombianos did...I just happen to play it better than most of them. jajaja