Needle in a Haystack

[Kiltboy1]

327 VS 1854
I am always involved buddy, never forget it 

[Jeff S]

Yes, I know it's an extreme example, but a true one. I had a young, attractive girl working for me who was sweet, sincere and dedicated. After trying to figure out why she was unable to do the required record keeping for the job, I found out she couldn't read an analog clock. I was told it was because she came from a tiny ranchito in rural Guerrero, had never been to school at all, and had just moved away from her parents to the city in Mexico the factory was. I installed a digital clock so she could copy down the numerals to complete her tasks.


This is not a girl I'd date or consider marrying. I know many of you are thinking that it's my arrogance or racism - thinking she's somehow beneath me, but she is just not someone I think could handle my modern white-collar urban lifestyle. What could she bring to the relationship, besides affection and intimacy? Could I trust her to handle things when I was traveling? How would she deal with real world situations if she was so unprepared. I consider her to be ignorant - no, not stupid or mentally deficient somehow - just completely uneducated and illiterate - the real definition of ignorance. Could she possibly have become a great wife with a few years of patient teaching and coaching? Maybe. I don't know. I wasn't looking for a project, I was looking for someone who was ready for the job just the way she was. Maybe if I lived in the rural midwest she'd have been a good choice, but I don't. I live in urban coastal California where life is fast paced and complicated. I have no disdain for someone willing and interested in taking on a project like this girl. I don't get why some here have disdain for someone not wanting to.

[maritime04]

Wow you pulled the numbers on me, ok i can respect that, for now. this is more your world then mine; I am simply passing through. Next time youll have to show alittle more then just senority...

[maritime04]

Dear Sir whitey
You stand defeated on the plains of intellectual battle; I have destroyed the foundations of your arguments, laid waste to your rebuttals, yet you continue to barrage me with contradiction in terms.
“not impossible but really hard…”
“simple… is less complex”
You are rambling sir, and I feel sorry for you; what is it that you actually want to say?
Who’s setting fire to you? Over the course of the past few days I have been called
1.       A straw man as I do not understand what that is, I am sure it’s not a good thing
2.       Hot headed, quick to temper and short fussed because I am young
3.       “I strongly suspect those making those kind of claims have never met or spent any time with a woman in that category(upper class women) so are just guessing. Maybe been rejected by a few.” Which seems like an implication of something negative by our “global hero” and some other implied insults…
4.       Easy to piss off attitude which will hurt my marriage because my wife will not put up with that crap…
About the worst I called you was arrogant and rude or classists because that’s how I saw your posts. I think I even gave the option of choosing between the two.
With all that said I think I am the only one who knows what we are doing here is nonsense; I use this to pass the time, so I defend my statements little better than most does not mean I am wright, only means you’ll have to work harder to prove me wrong. We all have different opinions about this or that, and this is just merely talk, it can get heated at times but I never forgotten that fact.
I think I am ready to move on to next issue…

[braziliangirl]

Again...

In the other hand, if someone simply ignores middle class or rich, educated girls, just because of those traits, not even giving a chance for her to show if she is affectionate, kind, loving, has good/traditional values etc, isn't that a form of classism too?

[braziliangirl]

You better lose that temper and easy to piss off attitude if you ever want to find  a woman that has values, because she will not put up with that crap.

This is not directed to Maritime, but I agree a 100% that a good woman would never put up with any kind of bad attitude.

[maritime04]

 Thanks,i too think bad temper and hotheads would make for bad times. I personally do think i am ill tempred i guess often the defeated see the victor as a villian....:-)

[Zon]

Good women often put up with bad men and bad attitudes.


M4 - you say you think of yourself as ill-tempered?   I have known ***, but I never really thought they saw THEMSELVES as ***.   Are you the exception?   LOL


Pejorative removed.  Watch the language, please.  -Mod Bob

[maritime04]

Yes, I know it's an extreme example, but a true one. I had a young, attractive girl working for me who was sweet, sincere and dedicated. After trying to figure out why she was unable to do the required record keeping for the job, I found out she couldn't read an analog clock. I was told it was because she came from a tiny ranchito in rural Guerrero, had never been to school at all, and had just moved away from her parents to the city in Mexico the factory was. I installed a digital clock so she could copy down the numerals to complete her tasks.


This is not a girl I'd date or consider marrying. I know many of you are thinking that it's my arrogance or racism - thinking she's somehow beneath me, but she is just not someone I think could handle my modern white-collar urban lifestyle. What could she bring to the relationship, besides affection and intimacy? Could I trust her to handle things when I was traveling? How would she deal with real world situations if she was so unprepared. I consider her to be ignorant - no, not stupid or mentally deficient somehow - just completely uneducated and illiterate - the real definition of ignorance. Could she possibly have become a great wife with a few years of patient teaching and coaching? Maybe. I don't know. I wasn't looking for a project, I was looking for someone who was ready for the job just the way she was. Maybe if I lived in the rural midwest she'd have been a good choice, but I don't. I live in urban coastal California where life is fast paced and complicated. I have no disdain for someone willing and interested in taking on a project like this girl. I don't get why some here have disdain for someone not wanting to.

 
Jeff I do not think you understand the base of the argument. The example above describes someone you met that you would not date, ok I get that.  That’s not what I am talking about, i will say it again.
1. Not everyone who is poor is ignorant
2. When you go to poor countries you should not be shocked when you meet them.
Let me use a better example, you meet a women while studying in Spanish in University Antioquia, she gets to practice her English with you and you your Spanish with her, you continue with normal conversation with this girl, and she tells you in addition to school she has a job at a local convenient store (small mom/pop store) in her neighborhood for her uncle, which is close by the school. After a while you being to grow an interesting in this person for more than friendship and soon you discover that this girl lives in santa domingo in the hills above, which is poor by nature do you continue this relationship or abandon it because of stero types about the people who live there? Violence and crime ect…
Are you simply impressed with this person because she studies at a university, or do you shy away from this person because she lives up in the hills? Are we merely our physical appearance and credentials or do we offer more? I would never want to be seen as merely a collection of licenses and bank accounts, I am not defined by a “middle class” label. I am a person, with my own thoughts and ideas, I may be a representation of my environment but that is not the end result, I am much more than that.
I use the same logic with everyone I meet. I let them speak for themselves . I understand you have no interest in the women you used as an example. An ignorant person is disdainful to you as arrogance is to me, I get your point. We want to surround our self’s with people whom are most like us, that is natural and normal. No one is asking you to marry this girl, but a little respect and consideration would be in order.
No one here was born with a college degree, those are earned when the opportunities present themselves. We are all ignorant; it just depends on the subject at hand. I would never marry I person I did not think was right for me, I also do not see education as a project, it is a constant in life every day we learn more.
I understand your urban coastal California life is fast paced and complicated but MAYBE you should have taken the time to TEACH this person a new skill, instead of merely trying to complete the task. Although this does not surprise me from someone who views marriage as a job.

“I wasn't looking for a project, I was looking for someone who was ready for the job just the way she was.”

[InnocentVixen]

Putting people down because of their situation/looks/age/whatever is the only bad thing I can think of here, stating your preferences does not mean you think the rest is unworthy of finding someone.


Maritime, are you serious? Jeff could be the male Madre Teresa! he acknowledged many good traits in that nice mexicana, he was kind enough to go out of his way to find out what was wrong and gave her the tools to be able to do her job instead of replacing her like many others would have assuming she was stupid, he also didn't mislead her in any way by even attempting to start something with her, I think that is pretty nice and respectful of him.


I do know where you are coming from about you not wanting to be seen as a bunch of licenses though, if you are the type of guy that take things as they come then I am sure you will make things work and maybe even find the right one fast because you are not limiting your search, however some men do have a clear view of the life they want and know their partner will need certain things to fit in it, whether it's a degree, knowing how to move in certain circles or simply knowing how to keep a home.


I've never been to Colombia or any other "poor country" unless you count my own as one, I feel some guys are romanticizing (or even victimizing) poor people over there, from what I read sometimes it makes me think they are all this kind nice poor people and the few middle class ones are all this amazing honorable ones who were able to fight their way through, while I am sure sometimes this is the case let's be realistic, that is not always the story and everyone deserves a chance.

[fathertime]

I judge people by what they do and their actions, I thought I was clear the first time around. But to further clarify my statement, I normally never took any women who advertised themselves on agency lists or match making websites seriously because it showed a level of need/desire to find a foreigner. I used the word desperate but want I really meant was desire to find and create a relationship with a foreigner because they had given up looking for “love” with local guys. I will not go so far as saying every women out there is looking for money. For me it was the action of advertising yourself that said I am looking for something better than I can find at home; its the giving up It shows meekness , Just as whiety has his standards of values and character which he believes is adequately shown women having a good paying job, has gone to college and comes from a good estrato I too have my standards of character which is not meet by women who advertise themselves for western men in order to find love. Actions always speak louder than words.

Hi Maritime! 


Now that I've seen your reasoning behind this earier statement:  I can discuss it with you further: 

I have standards as well, that I would find a wife that was humble, sincere, kind, loving, devoted, friendly, and honest. I always tried to stay clear of women advertised on amigos.com, or agencies for serious relationships. That shows desperation, and a desire to be with a foreigner for all the wrong reasons. I am sure they can make happy wives, for some men. But I always wanted someone who was made of tougher stuff, to be happy with what they have in Colombia and not advertise themselves for some gringo to make them happy. Those types of relationships can seem so scheduled and rehearsed. I wanted to fall in love with a person not a photo, I did not care where she was born or what type of house she has, as long as she is good person, and that we love each other.

1.  You have stated you found a wife and you did not use an agency or amigos/CC or other introductory service.  I say congratulations to you for that. 


2.  I don't follow how a woman is made of 'tougher stuff' if she decides she wants to open up her options and put a profile up on introduction websites or on Amigos.com or CC or wherever.  You have categorized essentially all the ladies that have done this as being meek.  Now one could say, a woman that hasn't put herself out there is also meek, as she was either ignorant of her options, afraid of trying something different, or content to live with only the options that fell into her lap. 


3.  I'm after reading your explanation on the second quote, I'm still not clear as to what all the 'wrong reasons' are for a woman to put herself out there for foreign men to see.  I see it as an individual woman deciding to take a chance to meet men  from different backgrounds, and seeing where it leads. 


4.  Now you were a little judgmental with Whitey and his cruel and insensitive comments regarding poor ladies, but it seems to me that you have also painted large swaths of women with a very broad brush yourself.  I assure you that many of these women you labeled as meek are anything but. 


5.  Yes I hear your comment about 'scheduled and rehearsed' and to an extent maybe that is correct, AT FIRST.  Once the relationship develops there is nothing rehearsed about it.  Hell I don't know what the heck is going to happen next week, or next year.  It is free flowing now! 


6.  I enjoy your comments and they are well thought out even if I don't agree with some of them. 


Fathertime! 

[maritime04]

2.  I don't follow how a woman is made of 'tougher stuff' if she decides she wants to open up her options and put a profile up on introduction websites or on Amigos.com or CC or wherever.  You have categorized essentially all the ladies that have done this as being meek.  Now one could say, a woman that hasn't put herself out there is also meek, as she was either ignorant of her options, afraid of trying something different, or content to live with only the options that fell into her lap.
Open up her options or solely seek out a foreigner are TWO entirely different things, assuming the latter you are correct; but what may be the ratio of the two? How many women are actually using those sites as you have portrayed?  If want to call the women who choose to live their lives, work, eat, sleep and die in the country they were born as meek simply because they did not choose better options. That is your business and your opinion, but your argument does not hold water
1. I doubt ANY women in Medellin are ignorant of the better lifestyle’s a gringo has to offer, do you doubt that?
2. Content to live with only the options that fall into one’s lap. Do you mean falling in love and marrying a local guy? What do you think is more likely to occur, women settles for local man because that what has fallen in her lap, or women settles for rich (older) foreigner found on internet? Take your time now….
3. Women that has not put herself out there? For marriage, love? So you are saying that because a women chooses not to use amigos.com, or internet websites she is closed off to those things. I think not, silly when you really think about it.
A meek person is docile, submissive, compliant, spiritless, and tame. Using only the generalizations and opinions that people have of “mail order brides” and third world women being brought back to the USA for marriage who does that description fit? I made a generalization that you through personal experience disagree with, as I disagree with Jeff, or whiety for their stero typing of the poor.
I see how you commented on those remarks as cruel and insensitive, TODAY. You did not bother to rise to the defense of the poor, till you had a personal stake in it and something to prove. My statement was a generalization meant as an IMPLIED insult, it was said to gather a response from a selected few and to make a point about poor generalizations.
I have my own reservations and lack of experience about the process, BUT for the most part you are correct it is WRONG to paint all women with a large brush. Regardless of the large amount of scammers found on the internet or the likely hood of secondary education among the poor, it is WRONG to judge. Because as our very own great man once said “Point here is one has to be careful kicking around the possibilities - never know when lighting could strike.” jajajajajajajajajajajaja

[fathertime]

2.  I don't follow how a woman is made of 'tougher stuff' if she decides she wants to open up her options and put a profile up on introduction websites or on Amigos.com or CC or wherever.  You have categorized essentially all the ladies that have done this as being meek.  Now one could say, a woman that hasn't put herself out there is also meek, as she was either ignorant of her options, afraid of trying something different, or content to live with only the options that fell into her lap.
Open up her options or solely seek out a foreigner are TWO entirely different things, assuming the latter you are correct; but what may be the ratio of the two? How many women are actually using those sites as you have portrayed?  If want to call the women who choose to live their lives, work, eat, sleep and die in the country they were born as meek simply because they did not choose better options. That is your business and your opinion, but your argument does not hold water
1. I doubt ANY women in Medellin are ignorant of the better lifestyle’s a gringo has to offer, do you doubt that?
2. Content to live with only the options that fall into one’s lap. Do you mean falling in love and marrying a local guy? What do you think is more likely to occur, women settles for local man because that what has fallen in her lap, or women settles for rich (older) foreigner found on internet? Take your time now….
3. Women that has not put herself out there? For marriage, love? So you are saying that because a women chooses not to use amigos.com, or internet websites she is closed off to those things. I think not, silly when you really think about it.
A meek person is docile, submissive, compliant, spiritless, and tame. Using only the generalizations and opinions that people have of “mail order brides” and third world women being brought back to the USA for marriage who does that description fit? I made a generalization that you through personal experience disagree with, as I disagree with Jeff, or whiety for their stero typing of the poor.
I see how you commented on those remarks as cruel and insensitive, TODAY. You did not bother to rise to the defense of the poor, till you had a personal stake in it and something to prove. My statement was a generalization meant as an IMPLIED insult, it was said to gather a response from a selected few and to make a point about poor generalizations.
I have my own reservations and lack of experience about the process, BUT for the most part you are correct it is WRONG to paint all women with a large brush. Regardless of the large amount of scammers found on the internet or the likely hood of secondary education among the poor, it is WRONG to judge. Because as our very own great man once said “Point here is one has to be careful kicking around the possibilities - never know when lighting could strike.” jajajajajajajajajajajaja

Well Maritime,  I’m not following quite a bit of your logic here.

1.      [/font][/size]You seem to believe that woman that use the internet are ‘meek’.  That continues to make no sense to me.  I’m getting the feeling you just threw that out for effect![/i]

[/size]

[/size]2.      [/font][/size]Regarding a woman NOT putting herself out there.  You are mistaken if you think I took the position that she would be ‘meek’.  I simply was using your tact and painting her with the same broad brush, that you were painting those that did use the internet.[/i]

[/size]

[/size]3.      [/font][/size]  [/i]

[/size]4.      [/font][/size]Regarding Whitey’s comments.   You mentioned that I had a personal stake in it and something to prove.  I’m not following you here, What personal stake? What was I trying to prove?  I actually didn’t find Whitey’s comments to be off base.  I kinda threw them out there now because you found them off base.  It seems to me that he never had any malicious intent and was going out of his way to NOT judge![/i]

[/size]5.      [/font][/size] [/i]

[/size]6.      [/font][/size]I couldn’t possibly say what all the women of Med. Are thinking regarding their options.  It seems to me that you are saying a woman is always settling if she finds a local man or she finds a ‘rich older foreign man’.  Isn’t it possible in your world that a woman finds a good man for her from either of the categories?  [/i]

[/size]

[/size]

[/size]THE MAIN POINT that I was interested in getting to the bottom of was the comment about ‘meek’ women and their use of Agencies, Amigos, or other introduction services.  I really don’t see the logic in that thinking.  From what I've seen, it simply is not an accurate stereotype, although I’m sure there are SOME meek women that use agencies,amigos, or other introduction services.

[/size]

[/size]Well anyway Maritime, you have an interesting perspective.

[/size]Fathertime!   

[whitey]

4.  Now you were a little judgmental with Whitey and his cruel and insensitive comments regarding poor ladies, but it seems to me that you have also painted large swaths of women with a very broad brush yourself.  I assure you that many of these women you labeled as meek are anything but. 

Fathertime!

War! 

Thanks for letting me off easy FT ... I'm glad you didn't mention my halitosis and small penis. 

[maritime04]

OMG
My point is that most generalizations are WRONG, weather about the poor or amigos.com!!!!
Personal preference and life often give us these opinions BUT this does not make it right or accurate.
I said what I said as an insult and stero type to make a point how stupid it is.
As you think it is wrong for me to call women on amigos.com meek, I think it is wrong to say estro 1-2 women are likely too not have a job, secondary education or relate and handle the high paced western lifestyle. DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THIS POINT!!
Why is it ok for you to tell me I am wrong about this, BUT ok for people to make generalized statements about people because of where they live. Why is it ok for whiety to say I would not date a women from a poor barrio because she would not have the same ethics and values as a middle class western man BUT wrong for maritime to say he would stay away from agencies because the women are often desperate and it shows a desire for a foreign relationship shows a meekness to escape the hard life?
You cannot be for one over the other. I made the statement to rattle the cage, and toss an insult. I guess it went above your heads, sorry I be more simply next times….

[whitey]

Why is it ok for whiety to say I would not date a women from a poor barrio because she would not have the same ethics and values as a middle class western man BUT wrong for maritime to say he would stay away from agencies because the women are often desperate and it shows a desire for a foreign relationship shows a meekness to escape the hard life?

Ouch!  I'm on fire again!

I never used the word ethics, because I don't believe not having a job or post secondary education has anything to do with your ethics.

I did use the phrase common or similar values, which I meant to mean a shared belief in having goals,  and demonstrating the ability to follow through on them (such as a post secondary education and steady employment over time). 

[fathertime]

Why is it ok for you to tell me I am wrong about this, BUT ok for people to make generalized statements about people because of where they live. Why is it ok for whiety to say I would not date a women from a poor barrio because she would not have the same ethics and values as a middle class western man BUT wrong for maritime to say he would stay away from agencies because the women are often desperate and it shows a desire for a foreign relationship shows a meekness to escape the hard life?
You cannot be for one over the other. I made the statement to rattle the cage, and toss an insult. I guess it went above your heads, sorry I be more simply next times….

Maritime! 

I figure you were on to evil old Whitey about his statements, so that was your battle, besides I didn't make the same interpretations as you did.  I figured I'd challenge your POV on the generalization about ladies using agencies/amigos/etc.  Now it appears you aren't going to defend that statement because for the most part you[size=78%] [/size]were just goofing around for effect!  Either way, I was prepared to have a civil discourse about the issue.  [size=78%]  [/size]

Fathertime!

[fathertime]

War! 

Thanks for letting me off easy FT ... I'm glad you didn't mention my halitosis and small penis. 

 


Fathertime! 

[maritime04]

argghh...civil disHORSE yourself!!!! you use allot of big words like INTERpration!!! I do not know who you are calling a POV either; i should warn you that type of talking is not allowed HERE!!!
 
There not evil statements, but wrong generalizations about the poor of Medellin or Colombia. You people have allotted more time than normal folks to bicker about this or that DOESNT ANYBODY WORK or sleep!?
 
I could not really defend the statement anywaz because
1. I do not truly believe it
2. it is wrong to generalize in such a manner
 
If you want to fight about something I have a week left till I get my life back, so Pakiž choose wisely!!!
 

[maritime04]

nobody is setting you on fire

[Bob_S]

I do not know who you are calling a POV either; i should warn you that type of talking is not allowed HERE!!!

Eh?       POV = Point Of View.  What did you think it meant?  Does pov equal something in Spanish slang?

[Jeff S]

1. Not everyone who is poor is ignorant
2. When you go to poor countries you should not be shocked when you meet them.
Although this does not surprise me from someone who views marriage as a job.

“I wasn't looking for a project, I was looking for someone who was ready for the job just the way she was.”

1. Kindly point our where I or anyone else ever said that everyone who is poor is ignorant. I've never seen anyone say, imply, infer, suggest, or hint it.

2. I have been traveling to poor countries (many of them) since way before you were born. What makes you think I or anyone else here is shocked?

Let me teach you a new word. It's called an "idiom." It is an expression that is used that doesn't always mean what the individual words within it mean. Let me give you a hint: "up for the job," and "ready for the job" may have nothing to do with employment.

You have repeatedly lashed out at me, Whitey, and others who felt an educated, accomplished woman was a better fit for us than a dirt poor girl from the countryside or a poor barrio, implying we were arrogant elitists. OK - think what you want. I don't give a rat's backside what you think. This board, however, is for more than just a few of us to argue, it's for a huge number of lurkers, and passers through looking for advice.

In the 12 years, I've been hanging around and contributing here, I've seen hundreds of guys come and go - some successful, some not. It's interesting that those who stick around for some time and seem to be happily married are often married to educated, professional women - nurses, engineers, businesspeople, artists, writers, and so on, both from Asia and Latin America. I can't recall one of the many horror stories over the past dozen years, like the new one just posted in the last couple of days, where the woman was an educated professional. I'm sure it's happened, I just can't recall one. Anyone reading is welcome to refresh my memory. Of course some guys get married and disappear off the board, so we never know. Some give marriage a try and later decide it doesn't work - I'm talking horror story. Probably many guys marry poor girls also and are enjoying life. Not saying it's impossible or even improbable.

If you want to cruise the dirt poor barrios looking for a gem in the rough then spend a few years or more getting her up to speed with the modern world - more power to you. I'll personally commend you for a job well done. I didn't have the time or inclination to.

[maritime04]

I will BITE! I was good enough to leave this issue at rest but I see you have nothing else better to do with your time then argue with the likes of me!
 
Issue number one, I will refer to your story here.
 
“Yes, I know it's an extreme example, but a true one. I had a young, attractive girl working for me who was sweet, sincere and dedicated. After trying to figure out why she was unable to do the required record keeping for the job, I found out she couldn't read an analog clock. I was told it was because she came from a tiny ranchito in rural Guerrero, had never been to school at all, and had just moved away from her parents to the city in Mexico the factory was. I installed a digital clock so she could copy down the numerals to complete her tasks. "

"This is not a girl I'd date or consider marrying. I know many of you are thinking that it's my arrogance or racism - thinking she's somehow beneath me, but she is just not someone I think could handle my modern white-collar urban lifestyle. What could she bring to the relationship, besides affection and intimacy? Could I trust her to handle things when I was traveling? How would she deal with real world situations if she was so unprepared. I consider her to be ignorant - no, not stupid or mentally deficient somehow - just completely uneducated and illiterate - the real definition of ignorance. Could she possibly have become a great wife with a few years of patient teaching and coaching? Maybe. I don't know. I wasn't looking for a project, I was looking for someone who was ready for the job just the way she was. Maybe if I lived in the rural midwest she'd have been a good choice, but I don't. I live in urban coastal California where life is fast paced and complicated. I have no disdain for someone willing and interested in taking on a project like this girl. I don't get why some here have disdain for someone not wanting to."
 
(Listen I am starting to catch on here pretty quick unlike real men, it seems the SOP(standard operating procedure) here is NEVER to come out and say what you mean but rather make an implication.)
 
No you do not come out and say ANYTHING, you simply imply it. I consider her to be ignorant, who is she well she is a women who comes from a tiny ranchito in rural guerrero, with ZERO schooling, and working in a factory, but for all we know she MUST be very wealth. Jajajajaja
 
What did you expect me to infer from your statement? You defined this person as ignorant, and went further to explain why she is ignorant because she comes from a tiny ranchito….
 
"You know what, we're not looking for "most people" or "the average Colombiana," or doing some My Fair Lady social experiment, nor assigning and particular significance to rich, poor, class or anything else. We're looking for ONE person to be our teammate in life. Like you, Whitey, mine had to be educated, refined, worldly, intelligent, adaptable and a lot of other things including sincere, loving, attractive, devoted, honest. Not because I have any particular disdain for simple, ignorant, small town people or consider them beneath me. However since I only get to choose one out of the pool of 2 billion or so I get to pick the exact kind of person I want. It took 15 years and a dozen countries or so, but I'm happy in my choice and feel kind of sorry for those who settle for almost, or pick the best out of a small pool in some agency's catalog over the course of a 4 day visit or whatever. If someone is happy with a simple, small town girl who doesn't know much about the modern world - great marry one. There's no shame in wanting what you want and holding out til you get it."
 
1. Who is “most people” or “Average Colombiana” Let me take a guess what you mean by the average Colombiana, lets see who makes up the majority of estratos in Colombia???
 
Colombia Estratos -
1 - 22.3%
2 - 41.2%
3 - 27.1%
4 - 6.3 %
5 - 1.9%
6 - 1.2%
 
THE ANSWEAR IS……..63% of the population is estrato 1-2 the poor if our global hero needs clarification

So by “average Colombiana”, you most likely mean estrato 1-2; and lets ADD the WERE NOT LOOKING FOR THE AVERAGE COLOMBIANA.
 
Moving on, hope you can keep up…More implications of yours, BECAUSE you never come out and say much here except
 
1. You know what, we're not looking for "most people" or "the average Colombiana,"

2. mine had to be educated, refined, worldly, intelligent, adaptable and a lot of other things

What exactly am I supposed to infer here? Obviously you mean to make disconnection between the average Colombiana with educated, refined, wordly, intelligent, adaptable and a lot of other things. With that line of thought is it so HARD to connect average Colombiana to NOT educated, unrefined, NOT wordly, ignorant, UNadaptable, and a few other things???
 
OK now on to what you said today,which helped me greatly in proving what you KNOW you implied…

“You have repeatedly lashed out at me, Whitey, and others who felt an educated, accomplished woman was a better fit for us than a dirt poor girl from the countryside or a poor barrio, implying we were arrogant elitists. OK”
 
The only thing I can infer is dirt poor people either come from the countryside or a poor barrio.
 
“dirt poor girl from the countryside or a poor barrio”
 
So you ask
 
1. Kindly point our where I or anyone else ever said that everyone who is poor is ignorant. I've never seen anyone say, imply, infer, suggest, or hint it.
 
“…sincere, loving, attractive, devoted, honest. Not because I have any particular disdain for simple, ignorant, small town people or consider them beneath me. However since I only…”
 
You group simple, ignorant, small town people together here in that sentence, and above you combine dirt poor girl from the countryside or poor barrio. As I said before you never come out and say it but from looking closely at what you write, I can infer that that you think dirt poor women are simple and ignorant, in addition to these are the average women you ARE NOT looking for.
This would be a lot faster if you just come out and say what you so badly want to say but feel you will look bad for doing so.
 
NOW
Issue number 2
 
“What makes you think I or anyone else here is shocked?”
 
You know what, we're not looking for "most people" or "the average Colombiana,"
 
I think shocked was the wrong word here, BUT I have to ask what makes you so special that you think you deserve better than the average Colombiana? And WHY would you travel to a country expecting to find something more than what’s normally abundant or the average Colombiana?
 

In the 12 years, I've been hanging around and contributing here, I've seen hundreds of guys come and go - some successful, some not. It's interesting that those who stick around for some time and seem to be happily married are often married to educated, professional women - nurses, engineers, businesspeople, artists, writers, and so on, both from Asia and Latin America. I can't recall one of the many horror stories over the past dozen years, like the new one just posted in the last couple of days, where the woman was an educated professional. I'm sure it's happened, I just can't recall one. Anyone reading is welcome to refresh my memory. Of course some guys get married and disappear off the board, so we never know. Some give marriage a try and later decide it doesn't work - I'm talking horror story. Probably many guys marry poor girls also and are enjoying life. Not saying it's impossible or even improbable.

If you want to cruise the dirt poor barrios looking for a gem in the rough then spend a few years or more getting her up to speed with the modern world - more power to you. I'll personally commend you for a job well done. I didn't have the time or inclination to.

MAYBE YOU SHOULD STOP IMPLYING AND COME OUT AND SAY WHAT YOU MEAN!!
 if its not impossible or even improbable WHY did you bring it up?
Who is talking about cursing the Barrios for dirt poor women? I am talking about the majority of people one will meet while in Colombia, and i am sorry to say they are poor, this does not mean they are uneducated, lazy or ignorant. You keep coming back like some crazed Hannity, blathering about this or that. If you are so upset about me saying you think the poor are ignorant WHY do you not just come out and say one can find an educated, classy, refined women with similar values as yours in any barrio WITHOUT years of training and schooling. jajajajaja Ill give you this you are entertaining old man, your making this hitch go by fast!!!

[maritime04]

Eh?       POV = Point Of View.  What did you think it meant?  Does pov equal something in Spanish slang?

wow i am speech less, it was a joke bob....

[maritime04]

You have repeatedly lashed out at me, Whitey, and others who felt an educated, accomplished woman was a better fit for us than a dirt poor girl from the countryside or a poor barrio, implying we were arrogant elitists. OK - think what you want. I don't give a rat's backside what you think. This board, however, is for more than just a few of us to argue, it's for a huge number of lurkers, and passers through looking for advice.

WRONG AGAIN!!! I did not imply your arrogance I am CALLING YOU ARROGANT! You confuse me with your manner of debate.
Your actions (posts) are VERY overbearingly assuming. You are lecturing me about your MANY years here or there, and implying something about long lasting marriages, and you do not except to be called arrogant. You continue to comment on how the right women for you is intelligent, classy, refined worldly, leaving what for the rest of us? You imply a superiority and continue to separate yourself from what did you call it “most people” with your statements. Yeah right. Give it a rest there. Your trying to make an argument about the likely hood of a lasting marriage because the women is a educated professional YET there are many educated professional women in America; actually more today than ever before!? Why did you not marry one of those? HOGWASH!!!
Listen this is not the factor come back with common sense, simple truth and little humility and ill promise to go easy on you NEXT TIME…..jajajajajajajaja